Attribute point balance Ideas.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2014

The Current system you can universally achieve better results by Putting points in HP

Right now, every point spend in HP gives 15 additional HP. Putting all points in HP makes it possible to get yourself near the cap for that extremely easy if you have the emperor alliance bonus (+5 hp per level).

Other Attributes only gain 10.

with gear and food boosting another stat, you can max that stat out easily even without any points spend... making it pointless to spend any points in any stat other than HP. You cannot as easily max out HP in this methoid.

Example: Vet Sorc with all points in HP and Emp Allience, Plus Food and Gear bonuses to magicka

Hp:2.4
Mp:1.8

With this both stats are close to cap.

a NB with all points in stam however, With armor boosting HP and HP food.

HP:2.2
SP:1.6

here we see that the end results are much lower, and unless you have multi stat boosting food, the third stat is going to be just above 1k... Its much less effective to put points in SP or MP than it generally is to put it in HP.

So here is my idea to give a added benefit to putting points in SP or MP.

+0.5 Weapon Damage & +0.1 Weapon Crit / Per Attribute point in Stamina
+0.5 Spell Damage & +0.1 Spell Crit / Per Attribute point in Magicka

This would max out at 49 attribute points giving a 24.5 damage bonus and 4.5 crit bonus in either stam or magicka.

so now the NB with 2.2k HP and 1.6k SP also has 24.5 Weapon Damage bonus and 4.5 Weapon Crit chance bonus.

this would make it more worthwhile to put points in a Attribute other than HP.

Right now, the survivablity gained from points in HP is too important to even bother with the other attributes and since you can max it out while maxing another stat via gear and food more easily with all points in it, there does need to be a real Change to give benefit to people who put points in other Attributes than HP.

Comaetilico · June 2014

there is one major flow in your reasoning... that is that armor enchant for HP also give 1,5 the amount of magika/stamina enchant value...

Personaly I don't know wehere you get your NB vs Sorc stat comparison... but I can give you a much more accurate comaprison of 2 sorc both vr12, bot with full blu crafted gear.... with same trait on gear (infused on the 3 major and diven on the others)... one with full point in HP and equip with magika enchant, the other with full point in magika and all equip but one piece on HP (the last piece is on magika) those 2 character have the same exact amount of final stats...

the only advantage of going with full point in HP is only that if you ever need to switch from a magika based to a stamina based build you co do that by simply changing your gear (you would most likely do that anyway since you'r probably going for light armor for magika based build and medium for stamina based one) without the need to pay for your stat respec...

for the third stat being barely over 1k... I can't see anything wrong with it... you focused on 2 stat... how should the third one be any higher?

all the crit/power part is totally useless and whould instead make spending point in HP totally useless... again you should redo you math from scratch and incorporate the fact that HP enchant give 1,5 the amount of magika/stamina enchant

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2014

Didnt do any math. i just listed 2 the ACTUAL INGAME VALUEs i have on 2 characters.

I have a Vet Sorc and a Vet Nightblade. both in vet gear.

their exact values with Emperorship Allience Bonus

NB VR1 (Gear is VR1)
HP:2252 (FOOD+GEAR ONLY)
SP:1617 (ATTRIBUTE POINT ONLY)
MP:1080

SORC VR5 (gear is VR3)
HP:2436 (ATTRIBUTE POINTS ONLY)
MP:1826 (FOOD+GEAR ONLY)
SP:1232

Even outcounting the differance they have in gear which is only 3 vet ranks its pretty obvious which attribute setup works better...

BTW, the soft caps are HP=2474 and MP+SP=1899

and yes, the Sorc is a imperial, the HP would be 2.2k or so instead of 2.4 current. still the over all is higher on the sorcerer.

hauwlynb16_ESO · June 2014

Look, you can't conclude anything from those observations without knowing why it's different. Do you know that VR level, despite not giving any attribute upgrade to spend, still up all 3 stats, for example? the health/magicka ratio is the same on enchants as it is on attribute upgrades. The only imbalance in there is the fact food doesn't give 1.5 times the health value. That's literally it. Please don't make suggestions when you're not willing to make the comparison fair or do any math for that matter. Your conclusions are extremely flawed.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2014

hauwlynb16_ESO wrote: »

Look, you can't conclude anything from those observations without knowing why it's different. Do you know that VR level, despite not giving any attribute upgrade to spend, still up all 3 stats, for example? the health/magicka ratio is the same on enchants as it is on attribute upgrades. The only imbalance in there is the fact food doesn't give 1.5 times the health value. That's literally it. Please don't make suggestions when you're not willing to make the comparison fair or do any math for that matter. Your conclusions are extremely flawed.

your right... Food doesnt give the 1.5 value for hp...

Maybe that would be the ideal Change....

Comaetilico · June 2014

the problem with food dos not influence the stat balance as per the importance of where allocating points... what it does is "at best" pushing those that want all THREE stat to invest more point in health in both stat allocation and equip and than use food that only increase magika and stamina... but that is as I said only for those that want ot have all 3 stat... for all other builds (that usualy perfomr better than a 3 stat build since even if you can up both stat you will not be able to increase both weapon crit (on wich most stamina based skill are based) and spell crit (on wich most magika skill are based) to the same hight that a dual stat based char can reach...

for all the dua stat character they simply will use food for HP and magika/stamina... and with this in mind they either push for an higly overcapped magika/stamina (and so invest their stt point and equip equaly between hp and the relative stat...) or just aim for a slightly softcapped magika/stamina and so invest more of their stat point+equip toward hp... but that is only because you can reach soft cap for magika/stamina more easily that HP (and this simply because HP soft cap is higher than magika/stamina soft cap...)

again your example character are totally out of the way to make a comparison... you'r not even taking into consideration stat increase per VR level (10magika, 10 stamina and 15 hp per VR level) and 3 level in equip can do a lot of difference... actualy just one leveel can make difference if you go from one enchant step to the other (enchant if you don't know goes by step of level... you can use the same enchant on equip from several levels and it will give the same stat amount regardless of the item level... but if you reach a level where you can use the next enchant than the stat will increase... and it will be quite sensible... especialy if you have some passive that increase stat ^^')

so again... please make at least a comparison worth his name prior to propose change that have no basis and will actualy create an inmbalance in one of the few balanced system in this game ^^'

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2014

Alright then.

Here is the same NB as above with a Reverse point layout.

NB VR1 (Gear is VR1)
HP:2253(ATTRIBUTE POINTS ONLY)
SP:1703(FOOD+GEAR ONLY)
MP:1080

there is almost a 100 point differance overall, with this layout giving more total

as it was before

NB VR1 (Gear is VR1)
HP:2252 (FOOD+GEAR ONLY)
SP:1617 (ATTRIBUTE POINT ONLY)
MP:1080

Happy now? There is no differance between these 2 besides how points are allocated and what gear and food is being used to boost.

and btw i am keeping the new atrib layout since it does give more SP on my NB.

and finally, if you dont trust this.. Try it yourself... Post your results

Ironicly this proves that where you put your points is mostly pointless. Again, Some other bonus to Points spent would be nice...

hauwlynb16_ESO · June 2014

Way to totally not fix any of the flaws in your conclusions. start with taking food off because they bias the result if you want to make a point. Oh, in case you didn't know, your abilities do scale on your max magicka/stamina, making your suggestion not only redundant, but actually restrictive: some magicka skills scale on weapon damage, and some stamina skills scale on spell damage. Also, your "suggestion" doesn't provide any new bonus to allocating points in health, grossly advantaging magicka/stamina further and making glass cannon builds more relevant than they already are. I wish people knew anything about the game before judging what's wrong with it and how to fix it, you're missing the very basics.

$Infraction$ · June 2014

I think the point of maxxing magicka and stamina don't offer up really any bonuses to putting points into them. Not enough to make you consider sacrificing some of your health for higher amounts of the other two.

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2014

ya.. that was basically the point i tried to make.. but instead of constructive arguments, all this topic created were... arguments.. with no attempt to provide counter information or self testing.. basically just well worded insults. so i let it die...

There was one good conclusion drawn from this topic tho... any imbalance in how stats can be boosted is due to the fact that food doesnt have the same 1.5 boost on HP as attribute points or gear boosts... as a result, using food on HP is less effective than using it on Stam or magicka.