ZO. Seriously. Make SOME attempt at balancing the classes please. They are incredibly unbalanced.

SWEtree · June 2014

Ofc a nerf is needed. soling 12 mob packs while drinking your coffee is wrong. Same as winning 1v1 PvP fights using 2 buttons wich both are aoe and still aoutdmg the enemy. Yes a nerf is needed.

ZeroInspiration · June 2014

You guys are not looking at the real problem. DKs aren't overpowered at all, it's the destro/resto light armor synergy that's OP. Ask any melee DK to do the things we see in these videos and he'll get killed in an instant. What ZoS needs to do is either reduce the synergy of light armor or make it less effective for survivability. I lean more towards the former because making it less protective would of course affect perfectly balanced builds (which are the majority).

They also need to make melee viable, and this is where the real balance should come from. It is clear that they either need to raise the amount of stamina given by an attribute point or make an entirely different resource pool used for dodges and CC breaks, as it stands now stamina is used for way too many things making it extremely hard to manage.

Stamina based skills are also lackluster when compared to magicka based ones, and clearly need a buff. And last but not least, rewrite the medium armor skill line so it has a similar synergy with stam based builds as light armor has with magicka based ones.

IMO there are a few nerfs to make, but it's mostly about buffing melee. Classes on their own are quite balanced, IF I were to nerf DK the only thing I'd change is the fire damage passives so they apply only to DK abilities.

Tankqull · June 2014

ZeroInspiration wrote: »

You guys are not looking at the real problem. DKs aren't overpowered at all, it's the destro/resto light armor synergy that's OP. Ask any melee DK to do the things we see in these videos and he'll get killed in an instant. What ZoS needs to do is either reduce the synergy of light armor or make it less effective for survivability. I lean more towards the former because making it less protective would of course affect perfectly balanced builds (which are the majority).

you cant "balance" the destro/restro/light armor synergies for DKs without gimpig every other class but DKs horribly...

Ilterendi · June 2014

It shouldn't be about nerfing. It should be about appropriately boosting stamina based damage and medium armor.

Jaxom · June 2014

Ilterendi wrote: »

It shouldn't be about nerfing. It should be about appropriately boosting stamina based damage and medium armor.

This^ The fact that half the weapon skills in the game are utterly useless should be top priority. #1 Fix broken skills/passive. #2 Bring weapon based damage/builds up to par then #3 balance the rest of the skill lines appropriately.

Still_Mind · June 2014

Axer wrote: »

- AOE DPS . 6000+ Burst aoe is not uncommon (even seen a screenshot of over 9000 due to the fact some of their abilities have no target limits),

I have a screenshot with 38.5k burst DPS on a level 5 Nightblade. Bow+class skill burst.

Recount is funny when you kill something in 1 attack's timeframe.

Axer · June 2014

Still_Mind wrote: »

Axer wrote: »

- AOE DPS . 6000+ Burst aoe is not uncommon (even seen a screenshot of over 9000 due to the fact some of their abilities have no target limits),

I have a screenshot with 38.5k burst DPS on a level 5 Nightblade. Bow+class skill burst.

Recount is funny when you kill something in 1 attack's timeframe.

Yea imo recount is simply bugged and never shows any accurate dps counter.

Only recent versions of CLS and FTC are accurate imo.

And these burst numbers im talking about are versus VR10+ mobs, with at least an 8 second fight. Same guy I know got the 9k, got up to 12k per target patch.

Post target patch he can now do about 8k.

Post dk nerf, im not sure. Probably still 6-7k.

(and imo yea the DK dps nerf was unwarranted.. The trials dps check is insanely hard, and so was prepatch with lots of DKs, its near impossibly hard now - only groups I saw get completions are those who already have lots of Aether sets.. (Which is a closed loop, as they only drop there from the last boss).

The Magma armor one was bad too. Never fixed the fact DKs can solo everything, as they can still build enough ultimate to keep it up 100% vs large packs.

Proper fixes ZO:

-Un nerf banner.

-MASSIVELY buffed other classes dps ultimate:
Templar:
+50% dmg on solar prison, increase duration to 15 seconds, and allow ability to crit. +100% dmg on the synergy.
Sorc:
+50% dmg on strom atronarch, +50% hp on him. +50% dps on overload
Nightblade:
+50% dmg on veil of blades.

Magma armor:
This ability no longer provides god mode. It now provides, +1000 armor (scales with level) and 50% damage reduction for the caster (still the highest of any ultimate). Un-nerfed the duration. Increased damage +10%. Cost increased to 300.

Battle roar:
Now applies to up to 4 nearby allies. Effect reduced to 20/40% of stats restored.

game fixed.

henryabelarwb17_ESO · June 2014

Another DK whiner... guess you chose NB for dps and got shorthanded right?

Axer · June 2014

henryabelarwb17_ESO wrote: »

Another DK whiner... guess you chose NB for dps and got shorthanded right?

Nope.

My main dps character is a DK.

Being stupidly overpowered is only fun for so long. Eventually it's preferable to ave your friends that play other classes at least be able to contribute on SOME level.

NerfEverything · June 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

Templar currently has more sustained dps than DK.

You have absolutely no f*cking clue what you are talking about. If you think this is true, check out the post on the general forums where a guy is giving away 50k to any templar that can break 700 dps. No one is even close. Meanwhile DKs are putting out 1000+ dps.

Axer · June 2014

Updated OP for post craglorn/recent patch changes. Not much has changed, NB got very slightly better, templars nerfed a bit, DKs buffed quite a bit, then minorly nerfed. Sorcs unchanged except for the running away front, slightly harder to do now, but still very managable.

shiva7663 · June 2014

The pace at which they are slowly balancing the classes may seem sensible to them, but they severely try the patience of the player base.

NordJitsu · June 2014

Pretty solid analysis over all.

DKs: Best by far. Agree. I am encouraged by the changes to Dark Talons though, which was the single most absurd ability in the game.

Sorcerers: In a good spot. I generally agreed prior to the BE nerf. The problem with Sorcs is two fold: low survivability due to poor self healing and very limited number of useful skills. While they have one outstanding line (Storm Calling other than Lightning Pool) and one line with 3 decent skills (Dark Magic) they also have the single most useless class line in the game (Daedric Summoning, which needs a complete revamp.)

NBs: They were the worst, by far. Problem with NBs is that they were bugged to ****. The class is great when it actually works. ZOS is fixing the bugs AND buffing the NB, which is basically going to make them more powerful than anyone except DKs.

Templar: Bad. Just mechanically bad and poorly designed class. They can be good healers, sure, but their heals are crazy expensive. There are a handful of good Templar builds for PvP, sure, but they still aren't as good as what you can make with the other classes. The class suffers from 3 problems: high magicka costs, poor magicka regen, long cast times and slow moving projectiles make their damage skills easy to avoid in PvP.

williams226 · June 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

NBs: They were the worst, by far. Problem with NBs is that they were bugged to ****. The class is great when it actually works. ZOS is fixing the bugs AND buffing the NB, which is basically going to make them more powerful than anyone except DKs.

umm, they fixed siphoning strikes by changing the tool tip..... wasn't really a fix or a buff.

they made catalyst better, slight buff...

increased damage path, slightly.... I for one tried to use it but found it poor ability and not worth using as there are better abilities.

But nothing to make us more powerfull than everyone except DKs.

Gilvoth · June 2014

the fact of the matter remains, that we duel wield nightblades die easily, and do not do as much damage as dragonights and sorcerers can do.

i have seen NO buff to our damage output.

williams226 · June 2014

I just got to V1 so its hard to say really, but I was under the impression from other forum users that's its not just d/w NB that are not invited to end content.

Pmarsico9 · June 2014

I'm at the point that I think Restoration staves should be removed entirely. They severely mess up any logical sense of balance altogether. It's simply too easy and efficient. Healing in this game is overpowered overall.

Heavy Armor needs higher DR Caps, medium does as well. Should be passive.

Every class should have had a tanking tree, a healing tree, and a DPS tree with some crossover. The current iteration of "build to what you like" is stupid.

Also, content should require tanks. All content.

tylerdavidsonb14_ESO · June 2014

I have read some of this and I decided to roll a NB in an attempt to prove yall wrong. I level very slowly, so I will check back in in a month or so....or you can just keep looking for my name at the top of the leaderboards. Enochx Caine.

NerfEverything · June 2014

tylerdavidsonb14_ESO wrote: »

I have read some of this and I decided to roll a NB in an attempt to prove yall wrong. I level very slowly, so I will check back in in a month or so....or you can just keep looking for my name at the top of the leaderboards. Enochx Caine.

You won't have a hard time. The guild with the top trial time in the world uses a ton of NBs. A bunch of them are actually re-rolling NBs. Check it out: http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/27vlu5/alacrity_qa_time_for_the_community/

When played correctly, NBs are crazy good.

Axer · June 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

tylerdavidsonb14_ESO wrote: »

I have read some of this and I decided to roll a NB in an attempt to prove yall wrong. I level very slowly, so I will check back in in a month or so....or you can just keep looking for my name at the top of the leaderboards. Enochx Caine.

You won't have a hard time. The guild with the top trial time in the world uses a ton of NBs. A bunch of them are actually re-rolling NBs. Check it out: http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/27vlu5/alacrity_qa_time_for_the_community/

When played correctly, NBs are crazy good.

lol.

None of their good times posted included any NBs doing anything significant - infact the archives one included zero nightblades. You can watch there Hell Ra WR video too, they clearly have a NB that has no experience there and tell her exactly when to use her ultimate - and obviously are only bringing her along for that reason alone.

NBs are crazy bad with 1 very strong ultimate. Think of them like your *** cousin who happens to have this one amazing talent. Still ***, but useful occasionally.

When exploited by very skilled players, that one ultimate can cause some serious damage in pvp, and help a ton in the trials for survival. But far as overall sustainable DPS/HPS goes, nightblades are very inferior to DK/Sors, and only can come close to templars by using light armor/destro/resto almost exclusively, with nearly zero class skill use.

Top trial setups imo:
1 templar tank (Magicka furance + Breath of life = epic healing while easily surviving any raid bosses onslaught, and since the mage's main assault are objects you should not dps, a DK isn't neccesary. On Hell Ra a DK may allow for more dps while tanking, but the warrior hits hard enough that the extra block mitigation and healing power of a templar is worth it.
1 NB - Purely for the veil of blades. Other then that 1 ult, they aren't worth taking. The 30% group DR and long duration of the ult makes it extremely valuable for surviving/ignoring many raid boss mechanics.

10 DK/Sor:
They are balanced enough that the better one to take depends upon the skill/knowledge of the player controlling the character.

If all were controlled by advanced military androids designed to crush mmos:
They should all be DKs. The minor utility having longer range/negate dispel available can be overcome by smart players without any time loss.

Lynx7386 · June 2014

According to ZOS, dragonknights and sorcerors are 'roughly' where they want them to be at right now, and the plan at this point is to bring improvements to templars and nightblades to bring them up to that level. Templars in particular are being looked at, so I'm assuming that they believe most of the nightblade problems arent balance or mechanic issues but rather a matter of bugs and glitches that simply need to be fixed, and in general that seems correct.

They are also well aware of the discrepancy between stamina and magicka builds and their potency/efficiency in combat (or the lack thereof for stamina builds), and this is something that's being worked on. They're also looking at improving heavy armor, so that stamina and melee builds are as efficient and appealing to the players as magicka builds are right now.

Calm down and give them some time, balance changes dont happen instantly.

altrego9920_ESO · June 2014

Balance changes may not happen instantly but because they were not found during the supposed testing of the game they are loosing a lot of players. People do not like to have to pay to be a beta tester, and that is exactly what is happening right now. Why should people be calm when in order to play at higher level you cant even use an entire class, or use entire skills lines without basically gimping yourself.

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

When played correctly, NBs are crazy good.

Correctly? If thats the case, they should change the name to reflect the one correct playstyle for the class. 'Nightstaves' would be suitable.

Axer · June 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Axer wrote: »

When played correctly, NBs are crazy good.

Correctly? If thats the case, they should change the name to reflect the one correct playstyle for the class. 'Nightstaves' would be suitable.

You're mis quoting me. Nerf everything said that, not me.

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2014

Axer wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Axer wrote: »

When played correctly, NBs are crazy good.

Correctly? If thats the case, they should change the name to reflect the one correct playstyle for the class. 'Nightstaves' would be suitable.

You're mis quoting me. Nerf everything said that, not me.

Fixed.

CapuchinSeven · June 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

The nerf to bash removed an entire playstyle from the game. This kind of garbage must end.

Just lol. If you mean, soloing group mobs while pressing two buttons and looking at your emails, then yes an entire play style was removed from the game.

Therium104 wrote: »

Use your damn brains Zenimax and stop balancing off the forums. Someone can be horrible and post they are not performing as well but it could be there own damn fault.

I've known and know a lot of people that work in the game industry, more than a few of them have been MMO developers. Basically, what you think is happening, isn't.

CapuchinSeven · June 2014

shiva7663 wrote: »

The pace at which they are slowly balancing the classes may seem sensible to them, but they severely try the patience of the player base.

This. It's not that I don't get that knee jerk balance isn't good, or even that I think they can just click their fingers and make balance happen, it's that some of these things are getting crazy silly. Not only is NB gimped, but we have live patches rolling out that stop stealth from working, and so on.

Sihnfahl · June 2014

altrego9920_ESO wrote: »

but because they were not found during the supposed testing of the game

During the Weekend Betas (the ones with the invites), we were limited to, at best, level 20. Most folks didn't even hit 14. The Weekend Testers didn't have access to the abilities that are broken because we never even qualified for them.

The private testing folks? Too few and too methodical. Quests that were broken on release because too many people were trying them at the same time (read, more than one) were so because the Weekend Testers couldn't get to them, and the Private Testers were doing them one at a time...