Big Design Flaws in Magicka Management and why Pure casters can`t cast for long

Reykice

The Sorcerer spells cost a lot more magicka to cast compared to DK spells or even NB/Templar ones... this is bad as all classes have access to the same things for Cost Reduction and for Magicka Regen.

A 90 Magicka regen(45 magicka per second) does nothing when the spell costs 420 to cast(default Crystal Shards value)... the lower the spell cost the better its able to actually help. This is why Sorcerers are falling behind in damage, we can`t keep up with the magicka cost, other classes have spells that cost less so they can just keep on spamming them thanks to their regen mechanic. Sorcerers must use 1 spell(equilibrium) to restore magicka every 2-3 spells - this not only ruins dps but also kills the Sorcerer as it takes more and more Health based on Spell Power.

It also forces the Sorcerer to keep his Magicka Restore spells on his main DPS bar... this is also an issue due to the 5 slot limitation.

Its also very annoying to play and adds no value to gameplay.

To fix this, a talent can be added in the skill class that amplifies the Light Armor bonuses... or something to this extent. This way pure casters who wear 7 pieces of Light Armor will get a better magicka management and be able to cast more... after this is done please rebalance the skill costs so that skills who should be used by Medium Armor users use melee crit and cost less while spells designed for spell users cost more(unless you are in full light armor).


Or, the long term approach:

Once 50, spell costs don`t increase BUT with every VR level the magicka and magicka regen caps go up... so eventually the Magicka Pool + the Magicka Regen will allow casters to actually cast for a while without having to suicide to get more Magicka.

Either way, i feel that something has to be done about this...

kewl

Interesting post. Stating a problem with solutions, thank you for bringing something fresh to the forums.

tordr86b16_ESO

So you want to spam crystal shard and win ? Not gonna happen bro.

thomas.d.keenb14_ESO

Use Dark Exchange, not equilibrium.

DDemon

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

So you want to spam crystal shard and win ? Not gonna happen bro.

Funny part is, I have a full magic DK that can do more damage with spells than my v10 Sorcerer using crystal shard.

Not only are the DK spells instant cast (Crystal shard 1,5 seconds) they cost less to activate and can actually be spammed when combined with warlock set. (Lava whip ftw) Only downside is the range limitation, but a DK can pull targets towards them using the chain.

My full magica DK started to out damage my v10 sorcerer at around level 40, making me regret starting out with the sorc, as the DK is obviously more effective in terms of damage and leveling speed.

Gisgo

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerers are falling behind in damage

LOL nice one!

tordr86b16_ESO

try combining crystal shards with elemental drain and light attacks. i have to do that on my dk to keep up my single target rotation up.

Reykice

DDemon wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

So you want to spam crystal shard and win ? Not gonna happen bro.

Funny part is, I have a full magic DK that can do more damage with spells than my v10 Sorcerer using crystal shard.

Not only are the DK spells instant cast (Crystal shard 1,5 seconds) they cost less to activate and can actually be spammed when combined with warlock set. (Lava whip ftw) Only downside is the range limitation, but a DK can pull targets towards them using the chain.

My full magica DK started to out damage my v10 sorcerer at around level 40, making me regret starting out with the sorc, as the DK is obviously more effective in terms of damage and leveling speed.

Exactly.... because DK spells use a lot less magicka and are instant cast....

ArRashid

Well, for once I agree that current levels of magica cost vs magicka regen are really dumb.

I'm lvl 35 and I'm still using lvl 19 warlock jewelry set, because I pretty much run dry (even as Pyromancer, who got cheaper spells) without it. Especially when I mess up and pull next pack too soon after previous one. And don't even get me started about dungeons, where tanks pull packs sooner than I can get even 30% magicka back and I only have to hope Warlock comes off CD soon..

NB has Siphoning strikes that takes care of this issue at the cost of 22% damage (which is HUGE), but noone plays the brokenblade nowadays.
Sorcs just burn magicka exceptionally fast and have really big problems finding magicka to cast them if they use other than light armor (aka 2h heavy sorc Juggernaut can cast like 2-3 spells before going dry)

I'm not saying they should do anything drastic, but a little better scaling wouldn't hurt.

Reykice

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

try combining crystal shards with elemental drain and light attacks.

Elemental Drain only works for Cold/Fire/Frost, Crystal Shards is Magic so it shouldn`t benefit from that.

Arsenic_Touch

Gisgo wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerers are falling behind in damage

LOL nice one!

Yeah... can't tell if this is a troll or not.

netsike

There are other plenty ways to prevent magicka problems:

1. Gear - Seducer set for example, reduce the cost of a spell with 3% + magicka glyphs and cost reduction jewels (im V7 now, 1 piece gives me 17 reduction, 3 together is 51 already and it's pretty much!)
2. Abilities - not just equilibrium gives you magicka. The Overload ultimate after morphing restores 75 magicka after every light/heavy attack. Dark exchange: 3 sec casting but it restores 1200 magicka + health!
3. Races - choose the fitting race for a pure mage.

And it's just a few stuff from the plenty what exist for magicka problems, you just need to take care about your attacks and the rotation.

tordr86b16_ESO

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

try combining crystal shards with elemental drain and light attacks.

Elemental Drain only works for Cold/Fire/Frost, Crystal Shards is Magic so it shouldn`t benefit from that.

Yeah good point, I just checked. You should still get a tick from light attacks.

Rosveen

Your sorcerer can't keep up? Oh.
*stares at her stamina-based nightblade*

Reykice

netsike wrote: »

There are other plenty ways to prevent magicka problems:

1. Gear - Seducer set for example, reduce the cost of a spell with 3% + magicka glyphs and cost reduction jewels (im V7 now, 1 piece gives me 17 reduction, 3 together is 51 already and it's pretty much!)
2. Abilities - not just equilibrium gives you magicka. The Overload ultimate after morphing restores 75 magicka after every light/heavy attack. Dark exchange: 3 sec casting but it restores 1200 magicka + health!
3. Races - choose the fitting race for a pure mage.

And it's just a few stuff from the plenty what exist for magicka problems, you just need to take care about your attacks and the rotation.

When i said all the above it was from the perspective of a pure mage with 2200 magicka, over the cap regen, seducer, full light armor and so on.

Overload is a dps loss, it will make us even weaker.... same with Dark Exchange. Dark Exchange is more or less for healers not for when you are dodging the boss while trying to do damage to kill it.

The cost reduction is not used for damage, spell power is...

So yea, with all that you won`t cast for very long and after you are out of magicka your damage stops. Compare this to a melee who can just keep one button pressed and do heavy attacks until the server goes down. Or to a NB who loses 10% damage(the 22% part is spell power, it is only a 10% damage loss for abilities) and has infinite resources or a DK who has spells costing 1/3 of what the Sorc ones cost and you will see the problem.

Reykice

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

try combining crystal shards with elemental drain and light attacks.

Elemental Drain only works for Cold/Fire/Frost, Crystal Shards is Magic so it shouldn`t benefit from that.

Yeah good point, I just checked. You should still get a tick from light attacks.

You use the resto staff for dps sorcs... for the 10% damage passive:p It does magic damage too, not elemental.

Amfijakerwb17_ESO

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

try combining crystal shards with elemental drain and light attacks.

Elemental Drain only works for Cold/Fire/Frost, Crystal Shards is Magic so it shouldn`t benefit from that.

Yeah good point, I just checked. You should still get a tick from light attacks.

You use the resto staff for dps sorcs... for the 10% damage passive:p It does magic damage too, not elemental.

And for the magicka regen on heavy attacks.

netsike

Tbh I dunno what more do you want... I burn down the enemies damn fast (VR7) and I'm using pure magicka. In longer fights you just have to switch the abilities to keep up a good magicka flow.

kewl

What alternatives do we have to stacking regen to softcap and spell cost reduction?

• Dark Exchange -> Dark Conversion
• Equilibrium -> Spell Symmetry with two points in Mage Adept passive
• Resto Staff heavy attack

Any others?

Gisgo

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

So yea, with all that you won`t cast for very long and after you are out of magicka your damage stops. Compare this to a melee who can just keep one button pressed and do heavy attacks until the server goes down. Or to a NB who loses 10% damage(the 22% part is spell power, it is only a 10% damage loss for abilities) and has infinite resources or a DK who has spells costing 1/3 of what the Sorc ones cost and you will see the problem.

Man if you really think Nightblades have it easier because we can spam heavy attacks (just like every other class including sorcs btw)... well, get a clue, really.
There are only two competitive classes in this game and you are playing one of them.
If you cant manage your magicka with a sorcerer i dont know what to say... but it sounds like a matter of l2p.

nerevarine1138

We should combine this thread with the "stamina builds are underpowered" thread and see if they make a baby.

Turial

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcerers are falling behind in damage

LOL nice one!

Yeah... can't tell if this is a troll or not.

I came in here and this is the only part of his post I want to reference. I am thinking the OP is not playing his class correctly hence it needs to be "fixed".

Arsenic_Touch

Gisgo wrote: »

Man if you really think Nightblades have it easier because we can spam heavy attacks (lol?)... well, get a clue, really.
There are only two competitive classes in this game and you are playing one of them.
If you cant manage your magicka with a sorcerer i dont know what to say... but it sounds like a matter of l2p.

Yeah... can't really take him seriously when he uses a NB for his argument.

Krovax

I'd say the situation for the healing folks is even more dire. Without looking everything up, you get about 1-2hp per magicka in direct heals (burst damage) and 2-3 on HoTs (normal damage can be countered by HoTs). At ~2,2k magicka that is about 3-4k heal on a tank that is getting a pounding, which is OK, as long as nobody else gets hit. In VR dungeons I can go through a 50 stack of potions in no time, and I do have Warlock set as jewelry and 2 pieces of light armor for some additional regen.

Anyways, magicka and healing is a very close thing more often than I really care for. Wouldn't be so bad if only the ultimate wouldn't take so long to charge.

Gisgo

Someone here should try a stamina build and see how it works having to sprint, block, roll dodge and use weapon skills with the same resource pool.
LoL cant keep up with magicka...

PhoenixWing

I read this and thought you meant for PvP fights. I have never had much problems in PvE as a sorc.

Dark exchange is really useful and even in intense boss fights, you always have a room (maybe paired with teleport) to switch to restoration staff, use dark exchange at least for 2-3 ticks and heal the damage, then you are fresh and ready for the next burst rotation.

Also, just add heavy attacks from the destruction staff if you are out of magicka but are full of HP. With elemental drain you will gain a considerable amount of magicka in no time.

I have never played DK though so I cannot comment on that but I did not feel the DPS is slow at all.

Xnemesis

UMMM don't just spam your abilities this aint a normal mmo with rotations and such. You usually have an opening ability or two a buff or two and a finisher. It is now up to you to take those 5 abilities and interweave them with light and heavy attacks to be affective. None of us can spam anything over and over and over.

AlexDougherty

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

So you want to spam crystal shard and win ? Not gonna happen bro.

Don't think he wants that, he just wants some rebalancing, some abilities would get reduced more than others, allowing a Sorc to be a caster not a staff user. Crystal Shard would get little or no reduction in cost.

Reykice

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

Man if you really think Nightblades have it easier because we can spam heavy attacks (lol?)... well, get a clue, really.
There are only two competitive classes in this game and you are playing one of them.
If you cant manage your magicka with a sorcerer i dont know what to say... but it sounds like a matter of l2p.

Yeah... can't really take him seriously when he uses a NB for his argument.

The NB is doing 700+ dps... the Sorc CS spam does 500.... now do you take it seriously?

EDIT: When the NB gets fixed the gap will be even bigger...

Turial

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

Man if you really think Nightblades have it easier because we can spam heavy attacks (lol?)... well, get a clue, really.
There are only two competitive classes in this game and you are playing one of them.
If you cant manage your magicka with a sorcerer i dont know what to say... but it sounds like a matter of l2p.

Yeah... can't really take him seriously when he uses a NB for his argument.

The NB is doing 700+ dps... the Sorc CS spam does 500.... now do you take it seriously?

EDIT: When the NB gets fixed the gap will be even bigger...

Sounds like a pretty crappy Sorc to me, only 500?

Gisgo

Ah so it turns out NBs are outdamaging sorcerers.
I hope you are posting from the future.