Let's just say it: Friendly Caltrops negate siege damage

SwampRaider

Okay, now that everyone knows this, I hope Devs fix it.

I was facing a group of 10 AD at a wall(vs 15 of us DC). We broke it down and here's what happened:

-AD puts up 3 oil pots ON GROUND.

- AD spam throws caltrops and sits there waiting for us

-We know better, so we spam meatbag catapults and fire ballistas.

-AD healthbars do not budge.

-We essentially have to play a weapon/ability ranging game with knockbacks and stuns to get them off of oils so we can rush through with out getting snared/oiled to death.

-After 20 minutes we finally push through.

-SUDDENLY,

-We break inner postern wall

- AD has 4 oils set up top and 2 oils set on the floor.

- A BROKEN CALTROPS APPEARS!

- We couldn't make the push so we had to break down the other postern wall because they didn't have the resources to defend 2 sides.

- End result: we took keep anyway, but they exploited the hell out of game mechanics to make it a slow process

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

Laura

normally i'd complain but unfortunately it seems this is the way to get things done around here.

The_Drexill

Yeah, it's becoming more and more widespread now. It was fairly under used... but I think everyone knows about it now.

Agrippa_Invisus

Some of the worst abusing of these exploits that I could think of were used heavily last night by a certain group to completely run the map on the server that we use for PVP last night. Later in the evening as the population dwindled -- mostly logging in disgust -- they started pulling worse tricks out of their bag such as jumping into defended inner keeps.

It was bad. Really bad, and it completely breaks the game. PVP is now unplayable since the exploit has now taken over.

Azarul

This needs to be fixed asap. This is worse than any of the vamp, bolt, or talons issues. Craglorn should be put on a back burner even for this. Between the AoE caps and this the large groups are invincible.

SwampRaider

I agree. With all of this PVP exploiting/game mechanic tricks going on, Craglorn needs to be put on the backburner.

I am considering using this Caltrops trick for my pvp group, since the enemy uses it. If I don't I am severely gimping my groups progress. I hate using exploits, but if its the only way to balance out an exploit...it's a msut

kewl

1. Use Caltrops
2. Stand in Caltrops field
3. Damage from siege weapons = 0

SwampRaider

kewl wrote: »

1. Use Caltrops
2. Stand in Caltrops field
3. Damage from siege weapons = 0

Pretty much. It's disgusting.

I even tried this:

Enemy throws caltrops down on themselves
I throw caltrops on enemies caltrops.
They take damage from my caltrops, but not my siege weapons.

KoooZ

SwampRaider wrote: »

kewl wrote: »

1. Use Caltrops
2. Stand in Caltrops field
3. Damage from siege weapons = 0

Pretty much. It's disgusting.

I even tried this:

Enemy throws caltrops down on themselves
I throw caltrops on enemies caltrops.
They take damage from my caltrops, but not my siege weapons.

Yo dawg, I heard you liked caltrops.
So I put caltrops in your caltrops to see if they caltrops

kewl

SwampRaider wrote: »

They take damage from my caltrops, but not my siege weapons.

WOW! That is broken.

Topic is getting allot of visibility on Reddit.

Arreyanne

Azarul wrote: »

This needs to be fixed asap. This is worse than any of the vamp, bolt, or talons issues. Craglorn should be put on a back burner even for this. Between the AoE caps and this the large groups are invincible.

Good Luck with ZOE fixing anything before say next Monday maybe next Thursday if you are extremely lucky

kewl

Arreyanne wrote: »

Good Luck with ZOE fixing anything before say next Monday maybe next Thursday if you are extremely lucky

but....but.....Hotfix?

Agrippa_Invisus

The state of PVP has completely imploded. Once this gets into widespread use on Wabbajack (and I expect it to today), then that's it, there are no more servers where it won't be flooded with cheaters and the honest players are driven out.

ZOS needs to fix this RIGHT NOW.

kewl

Laura wrote: »

Normally I don't complain but unfortunately it seems this is the way to get things done around here.

The sooner we spread the word, the sooner it gets fixed.

Utherix

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

The state of PVP has completely imploded. Once this gets into widespread use on Wabbajack (and I expect it to today), then that's it, there are no more servers where it won't be flooded with cheaters and the honest players are driven out.

ZOS needs to fix this RIGHT NOW.

You're a little late on that. I was playing last night and everyone was spamming caltrops on all factions. Fought fr 2 hr without using siege weapons. It was the worst PvP experience so far, right behind pre-50's bring useless in PvP and batswarm spammers.

Agrippa_Invisus

Utherix wrote: »

You're a little late on that. I was playing last night and everyone was spamming caltrops on all factions. Fought fr 2 hr without using siege weapons. It was the worst PvP experience so far, right behind pre-50's bring useless in PvP and batswarm spammers.

Last night was definitely the most frustrating experience I've had in game as well.

If it's on every server then, then PVP is utterly broken. Siege has always been a multi-tool counter across the board. Without it, the map just doesn't work anymore and objectives become trivial.

Mass bannings are really what's called for here, not just warnings or a fix.

Hot fix it. Ban the exploiters.

kewl

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ or anyone else from ZOS. We'd appreciate an official statement on a time table for the corrective action you'll take. Thank you.

NordJitsu

Ya this is pretty game breaking.

thelg

Go on reddit and up vote/comment http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2606cx/pvpbreaking_caltrops_exploit_is_becoming_far_too/

they will react to it

SwampRaider

Low pop servers, where its usually 20 vs 15 vs 8, has basically turned into an Arena. No one uses siege cept for breaking down walls.

Hell, even the emperors siege buff doesnt work on zerg balls anymore due to caltrops.

I don't want people getting banned for this, I just want it to be hotfixed. If people got banned, half the AD on my server would be gone and the campaign would be dead.

Zafu

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Some of the worst abusing of these exploits that I could think of were used heavily last night by a certain group to completely run the map on the server that we use for PVP last night. Later in the evening as the population dwindled -- mostly logging in disgust -- they started pulling worse tricks out of their bag such as jumping into defended inner keeps.

It was bad. Really bad, and it completely breaks the game. PVP is now unplayable since the exploit has now taken over.

As an avid PvP'r I left Cyrdiil in disgust last night, from Wabbajack.

Can you explain how they were able to jump inside our defended inner keep?

PVP needs to be as much of a concern to the devs as the PvE, if not more at this point.

Thanks for the thread.

Censorious

I kinda wondered why there were suddenly so many caltrops lying about.

Still, if it counters oil pots on the floor, I'll use it. All's fair in love and PvP.

Agrippa_Invisus

Oil pots on a floor have multiple counters. Use chains to drag them away. Volcanic rune to knock them up and off. Stack healing and purify to remove the DoT. Use a siege shield to reduce the damage. Don't be a vampire. Have fire resist jewelry.

Caltrops effectively turn off all other siege engines and make speed captures of keeps easy while preventing smaller groups from effectively defending keeps unless they are AOE bomb groups. The only thing siege can be used for now is PVDoor.

Censorious

Oil pots on the floor is an exploit - whether there are counters or not.
Pouring burning oil on your own feet should have the proper consequences.

I'm not condoning the use of caltrops to prevent siege damage. That too is an exploit.
However, if the one exploit counters the other, I'll use it for that purpose.

NordJitsu

@Censorious‌

How is using oil pots on the floor an exploit? None of your own damage hurts you. There is no friendly-fire or self-fire in this game.

Oil pots are meant to be a siege weapon that does AoE damage. That's what they're doing.

Caltrops are meant to be a skill that snares and does a small amount of damage to enemies that walk over it. Notice that the tool tip says nothing about preventing you from taking damage.

One of these things is not like the other.

Agrippa_Invisus

On top of that, oil potting the floor means you are likely in VERY close proximity to the enemy. The amount of times this tactic works is vastly outnumbered by the times this tactic ends up in a successful suicide attempt.

If you're complaining about potting up a tower -- well, knock it down first, then cap the resource. If caltrops weren't bugged, you then meatbag catapult and fire ballista the campers out of the open ruin. The legitimate complaint that can be found here is indestructible PVE buildings and sc(t)roll camping -- and they should make scrolls drop as soon as you enter one of those buildings -- which is a legitimate complaint.

Of course, caltrops exploit completely ruins these siege based counters.

Censorious

Where were you during the Middle Ages?

Oil pots have always been used to defend from above, for very obvious reasons.
The fact that it's difficult to make a game where damage affects people properly doesn't negate the fact that it's highly unrealistic.
Some would say 'immersion breaking' (there - I've said it)

If you start making distinctions about what skills are 'meant' to do and how much damage they are 'meant' to produce you really need to consider more carefully what the game is supposed to represent.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Oil spammers defending oil lol.

limeli8

Disable caltrops ability until this issue is fixed asap plz zos before it become the new 0 cost batswarm!

Mykah

limeli8 wrote: »

Disable caltrops ability until this issue is fixed asap plz zos before it become the new 0 cost batswarm!

Agreed. At the very least caltrops should be disabled via hotfix until this is worked out.

Fatalyis

Censorious wrote: »

Where were you during the Middle Ages?

Oil pots have always been used to defend from above, for very obvious reasons.
The fact that it's difficult to make a game where damage affects people properly doesn't negate the fact that it's highly unrealistic.
Some would say 'immersion breaking' (there - I've said it)

If you start making distinctions about what skills are 'meant' to do and how much damage they are 'meant' to produce you really need to consider more carefully what the game is supposed to represent.

Highly unrealistic? Like being able to go invisible...summon daedra...use magic?

Sounds legit...