Single players in PvP: A blessing or a curse for all sides?

Carraig

There is one thing in PvP that annoys me. And I assume I'm not the only one; many of my guild members feel the same and I'm sure that there are more players who share the sentiment.
I'm not talking about the lag, I got used to it. It is not the sometimes endless loading times to get into Cyrodiil because there are workarounds, or the Sorcerers using bolt escape to avoid my wrath.

No, it's the players that can't seem or don't want to find a group to PvP with. The players that are daring enough to roam Cyrodiil on their own, looking for one on one fights, easy ambush-kills or following a group so they can get some points while their survival chances rise a little.
Now, why am I, and my guild mates, annoyed? Because those single players are capable of ruining our ambushes, flanking manoeuvres or surprise attacks.

Just the other day we were in Cyrodiil, a guild group of around 15 members. Teamed up, everyone on ventrilo, getting clear and decisive instructions from the group leader. We saw an enemy group chasing off one of our alliances siege groups that ran off. (our as our guild master put it: tactical repositioning themselves) We were hiding behind a rock formation, waiting for the enemy group to get closer so we could flank them and give them a nasty surprise despite the odds of 3 to 1 in the enemy's favour. But to our unpleasant shock, a lonely player from our alliance, who was being pursued by 3 enemy players, saw us and came running towards us for help. We were discovered before the enemy group was near us, ruining our element of surprise and the advantage we would have had.

And this is just one of several occasions where single players messed up our game play. Can't you, the single player, guess that a sizeable group in hiding is up to something nasty for the enemy, who is probably nearby? Don't you realise that you, by running towards us with waving arms and shouting for help (would be funny to have that actually in game), are revealing our hidden location to the enemy?
And if this was the only way of revealing our position, but it was given away in many different manners. Like standing among us, while we are crouching. And don't mind looking to your chat window, because you are on your own so who will want to say something to you? Well, maybe, just maybe that hidden group, requesting you politely but urgently to go into hiding....

But not all of you are that ignorant. Some of you go in hiding when near us, and we thank you for it.... until we notice that you have a cute little monkey or crab with you. Let me tell you a little secret, and I probably get shot by professional gankers, ambushers and assasins for revealing it: Your pet doesn't hide with you. It will stay visible. So seeing a lonely monkey moving around is a dead-give-away for someone lurking in stealth just in front of the monkey. I killed my share of enemy players who thought I didn't see them. Monkey see = monkey do, but stealth is something it didn't learn, probably because it can't see you do it since you are in stealth. Yet it will still follow you around somehow. And you following us = 1 monkey showing the location of a guild group. If you didn't hate monkeys after seeing Planet of the Apes, this will make you hate them.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to impede on your choice to roam Cyrodiil on your own. If you feel daring enough to do so, please do. Harass the enemy as much as you can and disturb its reinforcement lines. I salute your courage. But give us the chance to deploy group tactics to do maximum damage to the enemy. Hiding is an essential method to surprise the enemy and surprises are always fun. Especially when we are the ones who can yell Surpise! So please, pretty please, don't spoil our fun. Think before you come running towards a hidden group and put your pet on the bottom of your bag or into the care of the bank clerk when you enter Cyrodiil.
Thank you.

PharmaChief

Live and let live mate...

lao

Carraig wrote: »

There is one thing in PvP that annoys me. And I assume I'm not the only one; many of my guild members feel the same and I'm sure that there are more players who share the sentiment.
I'm not talking about the lag, I got used to it. It is not the sometimes endless loading times to get into Cyrodiil because there are workarounds, or the Sorcerers using bolt escape to avoid my wrath.

No, it's the players that can't seem or don't want to find a group to PvP with. The players that are daring enough to roam Cyrodiil on their own, looking for one on one fights, easy ambush-kills or following a group so they can get some points while their survival chances rise a little.
Now, why am I, and my guild mates, annoyed? Because those single players are capable of ruining our ambushes, flanking manoeuvres or surprise attacks.

Just the other day we were in Cyrodiil, a guild group of around 15 members. Teamed up, everyone on ventrilo, getting clear and decisive instructions from the group leader. We saw an enemy group chasing off one of our alliances siege groups that ran off. (our as our guild master put it: tactical repositioning themselves) We were hiding behind a rock formation, waiting for the enemy group to get closer so we could flank them and give them a nasty surprise despite the odds of 3 to 1 in the enemy's favour. But to our unpleasant shock, a lonely player from our alliance, who was being pursued by 3 enemy players, saw us and came running towards us for help. We were discovered before the enemy group was near us, ruining our element of surprise and the advantage we would have had.

And this is just one of several occasions where single players messed up our game play. Can't you, the single player, guess that a sizeable group in hiding is up to something nasty for the enemy, who is probably nearby? Don't you realise that you, by running towards us with waving arms and shouting for help (would be funny to have that actually in game), are revealing our hidden location to the enemy?
And if this was the only way of revealing our position, but it was given away in many different manners. Like standing among us, while we are crouching. And don't mind looking to your chat window, because you are on your own so who will want to say something to you? Well, maybe, just maybe that hidden group, requesting you politely but urgently to go into hiding....

But not all of you are that ignorant. Some of you go in hiding when near us, and we thank you for it.... until we notice that you have a cute little monkey or crab with you. Let me tell you a little secret, and I probably get shot by professional gankers, ambushers and assasins for revealing it: Your pet doesn't hide with you. It will stay visible. So seeing a lonely monkey moving around is a dead-give-away for someone lurking in stealth just in front of the monkey. I killed my share of enemy players who thought I didn't see them. Monkey see = monkey do, but stealth is something it didn't learn, probably because it can't see you do it since you are in stealth. Yet it will still follow you around somehow. And you following us = 1 monkey showing the location of a guild group. If you didn't hate monkeys after seeing Planet of the Apes, this will make you hate them.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to impede on your choice to roam Cyrodiil on your own. If you feel daring enough to do so, please do. Harass the enemy as much as you can and disturb its reinforcement lines. I salute your courage. But give us the chance to deploy group tactics to do maximum damage to the enemy. Hiding is an essential method to surprise the enemy and surprises are always fun. Especially when we are the ones who can yell Surpise! So please, pretty please, don't spoil our fun. Think before you come running towards a hidden group and put your pet on the bottom of your bag or into the care of the bank clerk when you enter Cyrodiil.
Thank you.

ahahahah get owned brah

on a serious note: well theres dumb ppl everywhere. its just not much u can do about it and posting it on the forums wont change anything. just deal with the fact that 95% of todays mmo players have a broken brain or no brain at all.

Carraig

I know, I know, professionals are predictable but the battlefield is full with idiots... but seeing so many people making the same mistake over and over gets annoying. I just hope that those few people who read the forums will think about it. Those who don't read forums, well.... they will be punished by their evil monkies time and time again

PharmaChief

Carraig wrote: »

I know, I know, professionals are predictable but the battlefield is full with idiots... but seeing so many people making the same mistake over and over gets annoying. I just hope that those few people who read the forums will think about it. Those who don't read forums, well.... they will be punished by their evil monkies time and time again

i didn't know that there are professional pvper's. Does it pay well?

lao

PharmaChief wrote: »

Carraig wrote: »

I know, I know, professionals are predictable but the battlefield is full with idiots... but seeing so many people making the same mistake over and over gets annoying. I just hope that those few people who read the forums will think about it. Those who don't read forums, well.... they will be punished by their evil monkies time and time again

i didn't know that there are professional pvper's. Does it pay well?

yup it does but i cant go into details now. gotta go on a ride in my new lambo.

Zubba

Friendly fire = ON would solve the situation.

lao

Zubba wrote: »

Friendly fire = ON would solve the situation.

haha +1

srsly tho that would be abused so hard

Zubba

Works like a charm in Eve Online.

lao

Zubba wrote: »

Works like a charm in Eve Online.

yea it works like a charm in darkfall aswell but those are totally different games where ur reputation actually matters ALOT. in eso thats not the case.

Gisgo

When someone lures the enemy to me i get as mad as you, but blaming it on soloers is just dumb.
I am a soloer yet i am setting up forward camps, cutting enemy reinforcement, rezzing whole parties after they got wiped.
I just dont see the point of grouping with a stealthy character, your party wouldnt welcome me anyway.

But yes, as a soloer, its a good idea to pay some attention to what groups are doing: help them from the flanks but dont be an idiot luring the enemy to them.

rotiferuk

Carraig wrote: »

There is one thing in PvP that annoys me. And I assume I'm not the only one; many of my guild members feel the same and I'm sure that there are more players who share the sentiment.
I'm not talking about the lag, I got used to it. It is not the sometimes endless loading times to get into Cyrodiil because there are workarounds, or the Sorcerers using bolt escape to avoid my wrath.

No, it's the players that can't seem or don't want to find a group to PvP with. The players that are daring enough to roam Cyrodiil on their own, looking for one on one fights, easy ambush-kills or following a group so they can get some points while their survival chances rise a little.
Now, why am I, and my guild mates, annoyed? Because those single players are capable of ruining our ambushes, flanking manoeuvres or surprise attacks.

Just the other day we were in Cyrodiil, a guild group of around 15 members. Teamed up, everyone on ventrilo, getting clear and decisive instructions from the group leader. We saw an enemy group chasing off one of our alliances siege groups that ran off. (our as our guild master put it: tactical repositioning themselves) We were hiding behind a rock formation, waiting for the enemy group to get closer so we could flank them and give them a nasty surprise despite the odds of 3 to 1 in the enemy's favour. But to our unpleasant shock, a lonely player from our alliance, who was being pursued by 3 enemy players, saw us and came running towards us for help. We were discovered before the enemy group was near us, ruining our element of surprise and the advantage we would have had.

And this is just one of several occasions where single players messed up our game play. Can't you, the single player, guess that a sizeable group in hiding is up to something nasty for the enemy, who is probably nearby? Don't you realise that you, by running towards us with waving arms and shouting for help (would be funny to have that actually in game), are revealing our hidden location to the enemy?
And if this was the only way of revealing our position, but it was given away in many different manners. Like standing among us, while we are crouching. And don't mind looking to your chat window, because you are on your own so who will want to say something to you? Well, maybe, just maybe that hidden group, requesting you politely but urgently to go into hiding....

But not all of you are that ignorant. Some of you go in hiding when near us, and we thank you for it.... until we notice that you have a cute little monkey or crab with you. Let me tell you a little secret, and I probably get shot by professional gankers, ambushers and assasins for revealing it: Your pet doesn't hide with you. It will stay visible. So seeing a lonely monkey moving around is a dead-give-away for someone lurking in stealth just in front of the monkey. I killed my share of enemy players who thought I didn't see them. Monkey see = monkey do, but stealth is something it didn't learn, probably because it can't see you do it since you are in stealth. Yet it will still follow you around somehow. And you following us = 1 monkey showing the location of a guild group. If you didn't hate monkeys after seeing Planet of the Apes, this will make you hate them.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to impede on your choice to roam Cyrodiil on your own. If you feel daring enough to do so, please do. Harass the enemy as much as you can and disturb its reinforcement lines. I salute your courage. But give us the chance to deploy group tactics to do maximum damage to the enemy. Hiding is an essential method to surprise the enemy and surprises are always fun. Especially when we are the ones who can yell Surpise! So please, pretty please, don't spoil our fun. Think before you come running towards a hidden group and put your pet on the bottom of your bag or into the care of the bank clerk when you enter Cyrodiil.
Thank you.

1) I play solo most of the time, am usually in stealth and have never had my pet follow me. If I see a group I will sometimes tag along and try to help - I try not to get in the way and always take the lead from them. I even get asked to group sometimes. If this happens I accept.

2) The only place I ever run to is the door of a friendly keep and only after someone else has gone in front of me.

3) Everyone playing this game has to pay a subscription. IMHO this makes us all equal. So, we both have the right to play the game as we want.

4) I play games for relaxation and do not want orders barked in my ear by armchair generals. Neither do I feel the need to join some quasi-military organisation or have the equivalent of a job interview. These are the reasons I have no interest in joining a guild. I have to assume there are other people who feel the same way. I do not object to casual grouping or chat for directions.

superfluke

if you are really serious about organized pvp that should have been an obvious eventuality anticipated and planned for by your leadership

eNumbra

Your pet doesn't hide with you. It will stay visible. So seeing a lonely monkey moving around is a dead-give-away for someone lurking in stealth just in front of the monkey. I killed my share of enemy players who thought I didn't see them.

Zenimax and Bethesda both have a history of missing things but this kind of oversight... I don't even.

Gisgo

eNumbra wrote: »

Your pet doesn't hide with you. It will stay visible. So seeing a lonely monkey moving around is a dead-give-away for someone lurking in stealth just in front of the monkey. I killed my share of enemy players who thought I didn't see them.

Zenimax and Bethesda both have a history of missing things but this kind of oversight... I don't even.

Its not an oversight you arent supposed to bring your puppy to a war.
But keep doing it please

eNumbra

Gisgo wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Your pet doesn't hide with you. It will stay visible. So seeing a lonely monkey moving around is a dead-give-away for someone lurking in stealth just in front of the monkey. I killed my share of enemy players who thought I didn't see them.

Zenimax and Bethesda both have a history of missing things but this kind of oversight... I don't even.

Its not an oversight you arent supposed to bring your puppy to a war.
But keep doing it please

If you could unsummon them at will I'd probably be more likely to laugh at this. But this is a massive failure on the design teams part.

Gisgo

You can unsummon them.

eNumbra

Gisgo wrote: »

You can unsummon them.

Could you?

Hmm, I deleted the spot it was taking up in my inventory and it's been so long since I've bothered playing my main I hadn't even noticed if it was still following me. I may have screwed myself there.

I still find that a little ridiculous. Just one more reason to never play my NB again I suppose.

Gisgo

Because you cant bring your monkey with you?
I left mine in Daggerfall he couldnt care less about Cyrodiil (must be a hardcore pver or something).

joanjett

OHHH look at my cute monkey.....oh poop im dead how did that happen?

rotiferuk

Carraig wrote: »

I know, I know, professionals are predictable but the battlefield is full with idiots... but seeing so many people making the same mistake over and over gets annoying. I just hope that those few people who read the forums will think about it. Those who don't read forums, well.... they will be punished by their evil monkies time and time again

If your intention was to educate people perhaps you should have given the thread a less confrontational title.

Bergs

Solo AP is best AP. 700 - 850 AP per solo kill always makes things better.

Your particular story OP is merely anecdotal and provides no real basis/generalization for solo PvPers.

Rev780

Its DAOC meets modern day Elder Scrolls and DAOC was an epic game. Solo attacking is the way of a stealth class. Too bad they didnt add the climb skill like DAOC did. Used to take my Shadowblade and climb the wall, gank some healer, and run! If you dont like the way AvA is done there are many other games to choose from.

Bergs

Rev780 wrote: »

Its DAOC meets modern day Elder Scrolls and DAOC was an epic game. Solo attacking is the way of a stealth class. Too bad they didnt add the climb skill like DAOC did. Used to take my Shadowblade and climb the wall, gank some healer, and run! If you dont like the way AvA is done there are many other games to choose from.

Climb sounds amazing, but how would you balance the potential for keep abuse?

Rev780

Bergs wrote: »

Climb sounds amazing, but how would you balance the potential for keep abuse?

There were archers on the keep walls that did pretty nasty damage. So it was gank and run or you die. Besides that would be a neat thing to implement into keep defense strategy.

Edit: Meaning Archer Guards (NPC)

Mojomonkeyman

I don`t like zerglings who are too scared to ever leave their group and think they have a gripe on pvp.

"But Mojo, we are so pro, such an organized pvp guild, bust random zergs, yadda yadda!" Yeah, keep on fooling yourself like you keep on spamming those ae`s...

Most solo roamers would prolly wipe the floor with OP in any small scale encounter.

Love.

Glurin

Carraig wrote: »

We were hiding behind a rock formation, waiting for the enemy group to get closer so we could flank them and give them a nasty surprise despite the odds of 3 to 1 in the enemy's favour. But to our unpleasant shock, a lonely player from our alliance, who was being pursued by 3 enemy players, saw us and came running towards us for help. We were discovered before the enemy group was near us, ruining our element of surprise and the advantage we would have had.

And this is just one of several occasions where single players messed up our game play. Can't you, the single player, guess that a sizeable group in hiding is up to something nasty for the enemy, who is probably nearby? Don't you realise that you, by running towards us with waving arms and shouting for help (would be funny to have that actually in game), are revealing our hidden location to the enemy?

I mostly play solo, but I'd just like to add to this that if we are running for it because we are greatly outnumbered and you see me go behind a rock or something and hide, please don't come running right up to me with a dozen enemy players on your tail. You're not helping and making me die with you does nothing but feed them AP. You have better odds of survival if we split up anyway.

At the very least you could actually try to stealth with me rather than stand on top of me celebrating that you made it around the corner. If you're not even willing to do that, then you can forget about me wasting a soul gem on you should I manage to survive.

Samadhi

Carraig wrote: »

...

But not all of you are that ignorant. Some of you go in hiding when near us, and we thank you for it.... until we notice that you have a cute little monkey or crab with you. Let me tell you a little secret, and I probably get shot by professional gankers, ambushers and assasins for revealing it: Your pet doesn't hide with you. It will stay visible. So seeing a lonely monkey moving around is a dead-give-away for someone lurking in stealth just in front of the monkey. I killed my share of enemy players who thought I didn't see them. Monkey see = monkey do, but stealth is something it didn't learn, probably because it can't see you do it since you are in stealth. Yet it will still follow you around somehow. And you following us = 1 monkey showing the location of a guild group. If you didn't hate monkeys after seeing Planet of the Apes, this will make you hate them.

...

I've seen entire groups of players in stealth with multiple pets out around them; this has more to do with uninformed players than with single person players.

If I see anyone on my alliance with a pet out I whisper them to let them know it makes it so that the enemy can see them in stealth.

There are new players coming into Cyrodiil on the regular basis; it is up to those of us who have been there for a prolonged period to explain these things if we want for them to play well for our side.

methodofmind_ESO

I completely agree with Rotiferuk on the matter.

eNumbra

Gisgo wrote: »

Because you cant bring your monkey with you?

Because the devs allow pets to exist in Cyrodiil - if I can't unsummon the little *** without the inventory piece then it will always be following me.

eliisra

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I don`t like zerglings who are too scared to ever leave their group and think they have a gripe on pvp.

"But Mojo, we are so pro, such an organized pvp guild, bust random zergs, yadda yadda!" Yeah, keep on fooling yourself like you keep on spamming those ae`s...

Most solo roamers would prolly wipe the floor with OP in any small scale encounter.

Love.

Of course solo'ers wipe the floor with lost zerglings.

Someone spec'ed for large scaled fights and sieging, stands no chance against someone going for 1v1 ambushes.

It's not a fair fight. The guy jumping you from stealth will not let you break out of cc peacefully, than give you 2 minutes to re-spec for a balanced fight. Kicked of your mount and you're done for, if caught straggling behind the raid.

It's the price you pay if you want to be efficient in a raid, you're a jail bait solo. Of course there are exceptions like DK, being able to be good at both. But most classes can't have a strong siege/zerg build and solo build simultaneously.

@Topic: It's annoying when random players reveal your groups location. You're planning an excellent ambush and these moron starts shooting at the enemy. They probably don't know any better.

But still, this has nothing to do with solo'ers. People in groups also miss to sneak. It's usually people in pug raids, that fails to do the right thing. They're following the herd, half asleep, not thinking for themselves. Players in small group/solo are usually very good at sneaking and avoiding bad attention, in my experience.