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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Please reclassify talons as hard CC.
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JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO✭✭✭✭It's a soft CC and requires the DK to have good positioning and not get punished6 -
Rologue✭✭✭I find talons the most preferred cc used against me. It is only a mild inconvenience that I can just dodge roll out of. Shield charge though... Fight is over (for me) when I'm hit with that. I have little hp. I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that problem without sacrificing too much dps.Guildmaster of Decimation Elite
"Take all that you can, and give nothing back!"0 -
Travail✭✭✭I find talons the most preferred cc used against me. It is only a mild inconvenience that I can just dodge roll out of. Shield charge though... Fight is over (for me) when I'm hit with that. I have little hp. I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that problem without sacrificing too much dps.
Blocking will prevent Shield Charge from stunning you. They'll still charge to you, but you won't be CC'd.
-Travail.www.obsidianbrotherhood.com2 -
Avidus✭✭✭The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.4 -
KoooZ✭✭The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
So DKs can 1v6 successfully, consistently?0 -
Yeah if 1 DK can take out 6 consistently, then those 6 players need to get some more practice or something.
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1dk who is equally skilled than 6 random opponents has absolutely no chance vs them if they aren't just rolling their head on the keyboard, even if the dk has his ulti rdy and none of the 6 have. apparently, alot of people are just rolling their heads on the keyboard most of the time and hope to achieve something with that.twitch.tv/stonyleinchen Seitan - PvP Rank 32 - Prefect0
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JosephChip✭✭✭The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
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Mykah✭✭✭They need to change Talon mechanics so it can be blocked:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98642/make-dks-talons-a-one-time-ae-so-it-can-be-blocked/p1
And change root mechanics so a rooted player can still move their reticle:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98661/mechanic-changes-necessary-for-skill-based-pvp-root-and-block/p10 -
Mykah✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Its still a mechanical imbalance. Any class will die to 6 player focus fire. This not a real arguement. (Not to mention dodge rolling out of talons does not prevent the AE ground circle from reapplying root.)0 -
Nooblet✭✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Unless the DK is holding block. Then you must wait till he is out of stamina. Plus couple seconds is a pretty big exaggeration. I have never seen a v10 DK die in 2 seconds, even with 10ish players. Maybe if they're afk with no buffs up.Edited by Nooblet on 18 May 2014 18:390 -
JosephChip✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Its still a mechanical imbalance. Any class will die to 6 player focus fire. This not a real arguement. (Not to mention dodge rolling out of talons does not prevent the AE ground circle from reapplying root.)
someone specifically said that a DK can win against 6 opponents. It wasn't me to bring up this scenario mate.JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Unless the DK is holding block. Then you must wait till he is out of stamina. Plus couple seconds is a pretty big exaggeration. I have never seen a v10 DK die in 2 seconds, even with 10ish players. Maybe if they're afk with no buffs up.
If he is holding block he isn't doing anythign else. Not really a threat.
As for the ttk, of course the DK can turtle up and self heal. Still he is going to die after a few seconds.
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Nooblet✭✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Its still a mechanical imbalance. Any class will die to 6 player focus fire. This not a real arguement. (Not to mention dodge rolling out of talons does not prevent the AE ground circle from reapplying root.)
someone specifically said that a DK can win against 6 opponents. It wasn't me to bring up this scenario mate.JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Unless the DK is holding block. Then you must wait till he is out of stamina. Plus couple seconds is a pretty big exaggeration. I have never seen a v10 DK die in 2 seconds, even with 10ish players. Maybe if they're afk with no buffs up.
If he is holding block he isn't doing anythign else. Not really a threat.
As for the ttk, of course the DK can turtle up and self heal. Still he is going to die after a few seconds.
Are you playing the same game? Of course you can hold block and do pretty much EVERYTHING else. To me a few seconds means 3 seconds. If few means 15-30 seconds, I might agree.0 -
JosephChip✭✭✭
Are you playing the same game? Of course you can hold block and do pretty much EVERYTHING else. To me a few seconds means 3 seconds. If few means 15-30 seconds, I might agree.
As far as I know, using any ability while blocking will suspend the block for the duration of the cast animation. Even when blocking and using talons I take full damage from NPCs if they hit me during the short animation.
Also I don't understand what your point here is. DKs are op because they can live a few seconds more than NBs or Sorcs (not even templars) if they turtle and stay permanently on the defensive? So?
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Nooblet✭✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »
Are you playing the same game? Of course you can hold block and do pretty much EVERYTHING else. To me a few seconds means 3 seconds. If few means 15-30 seconds, I might agree.
As far as I know, using any ability while blocking will suspend the block for the duration of the cast animation. Even when blocking and using talons I take full damage from NPCs if they hit me during the short animation.
Also I don't understand what your point here is. DKs are op because they can live a few seconds more than NBs or Sorcs (not even templars) if they turtle and stay permanently on the defensive? So?
No point arguing, if you saw decent DKs survivability+dps you might have a clue.0 -
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO✭✭✭✭JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Not to mention DK as a class has no mobility.
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Nooblet✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Not to mention DK as a class has no mobility.
Define none. There is plenty of mobility that is available to every class. They also have Pull-in.0 -
Zagz✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Not to mention DK as a class has no mobility.
Cough shield charge/critical charge/rapid maneuvers.0 -
Eylith✭✭✭I'm a vt2 Tank DK and I got two-shot by a vt 10 sorcerer. Maybe you should try DK before saying stupid thing."Discuter avec un troll, c’est comme essayer de jouer aux échecs avec un pigeon. Tu as beau être très fort aux échecs, il arrive, renverse les pièces, chie sur l’échiquier et s’en va avec l’air supérieur comme s’il avait gagné." - Anonyme1 -
Harakh✭✭✭maybe you should relook your build? (no offense)Die Welt in einem Sandkorn sehen
Und den Himmel in einer wilden Blume;
Die Unendlichkeit in der Handfläche halten
Und die Ewigkeit in einer Stunde.0 -
Eylith✭✭✭My build is fine. At least it is fine for some particular situations, and this wasn't one of them. DK (like every others classes I believe) choose their build based on what they want to do.
This is obvious to me but i'll explain my point of view : If they're a LOT tanky, they're probably no DPS incoming, but will probably have some control. If they have DPS, they probably didn't have a lot of defence abilities. And so on. Once you figure that out, everything becomes a lot easier.
For the "lake of mobility" of the DK, keep that in mind that no DK will PvP without a gap closer, and a lots of their DPS spells can -at least- slow."Discuter avec un troll, c’est comme essayer de jouer aux échecs avec un pigeon. Tu as beau être très fort aux échecs, il arrive, renverse les pièces, chie sur l’échiquier et s’en va avec l’air supérieur comme s’il avait gagné." - Anonyme1 -
Infraction✭✭✭Clearly the answer is the games best players all just happened to pick dragonknights.........1 -
Eylith✭✭✭I honnestly don't think DK is OP. Did you try to play it ?"Discuter avec un troll, c’est comme essayer de jouer aux échecs avec un pigeon. Tu as beau être très fort aux échecs, il arrive, renverse les pièces, chie sur l’échiquier et s’en va avec l’air supérieur comme s’il avait gagné." - Anonyme1
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thestonyb16_ESO wrote: »1dk who is equally skilled than 6 random opponents has absolutely no chance vs them if they aren't just rolling their head on the keyboard, even if the dk has his ulti rdy and none of the 6 have. apparently, alot of people are just rolling their heads on the keyboard most of the time and hope to achieve something with that.
You know DK is threading on the edge of immortality when you get a dk charge in the middle of your guild premade of 8+ people and pop his skills/ultimates and your group (that knows how to deal with him and reacts fast enought o roll out of the banner, nullify it, etc) has problems melting that DK while he simply ignores everyone hitting and keeps pounding on his preffered target.
One person alone should not be able to hold its ground versus 8+ people for more then 2-3 seconds, not 10+ as many DKs with a clue will, withouth much trouble.
Yes, the DK will die in the end if stupid enough to attempt killing an organized group but it keeps alot of people engaged during a long period of time, no other class is even close to doing that.
Just had to say this since you were defending the DK so hard :P
And yes, there are plenty of counters involving groups, against a solo DK and arguably solo counters (altough you will never be able to kill a dk with a non-dk) but in best scenario you just end up pounding on a crazy hard to kill tank that hits like a truck.
EDIT: The 1 vs 6 win vs the randoms should be less and less common with time, natural selection
Ohh, and i also disagree with having talon as hard cc. It's a soft CC and should stay this way. They need to rethink some immunity timer in there but thats a general change, not just for talons.Edited by popatiberiuoneb18_ESO on 19 May 2014 12:100 -
Ruddertail✭✭✭DK fights are a lot like boss battles if you lack a DK of your own. If you do have one it's relatively simple to take the enemy down by nuking him from afar while the DKs have their dragon duel.0 -
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO✭✭✭✭
I didn't know those were class abilities #themoreyouknowJoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »JosephChip wrote: »The problem is that a DK when used properly can charge in, stop 6 people from moving, deal enough AoE damage to kill them, but even if they know how to deal with that.
The DK can then use massive heals, and has the survivability of a normal tank + healer.
Those people can roll out of talons. A single roll is usually enough to put enough distance between them and the dk that he won't be in range for a second talon. This just to put talons in perspective.
Anything else is obvious ***. 6 people can nuke a DK in a matter of a couple of seconds.
Not to mention DK as a class has no mobility.
Cough shield charge/critical charge/rapid maneuvers.
We also don't get an execute(while every other class does) and our spell ranges are pretty small.Edited by JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO on 19 May 2014 20:480 -
Syndy✭✭✭popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »thestonyb16_ESO wrote: »1dk who is equally skilled than 6 random opponents has absolutely no chance vs them if they aren't just rolling their head on the keyboard, even if the dk has his ulti rdy and none of the 6 have. apparently, alot of people are just rolling their heads on the keyboard most of the time and hope to achieve something with that.
You know DK is threading on the edge of immortality when you get a dk charge in the middle of your guild premade of 8+ people and pop his skills/ultimates and your group (that knows how to deal with him and reacts fast enought o roll out of the banner, nullify it, etc) has problems melting that DK while he simply ignores everyone hitting and keeps pounding on his preffered target.
One person alone should not be able to hold its ground versus 8+ people for more then 2-3 seconds, not 10+ as many DKs with a clue will, withouth much trouble.
Yes, the DK will die in the end if stupid enough to attempt killing an organized group but it keeps alot of people engaged during a long period of time, no other class is even close to doing that.
Just had to say this since you were defending the DK so hard :P
And yes, there are plenty of counters involving groups, against a solo DK and arguably solo counters (altough you will never be able to kill a dk with a non-dk) but in best scenario you just end up pounding on a crazy hard to kill tank that hits like a truck.
EDIT: The 1 vs 6 win vs the randoms should be less and less common with time, natural selection
Ohh, and i also disagree with having talon as hard cc. It's a soft CC and should stay this way. They need to rethink some immunity timer in there but thats a general change, not just for talons.
I agree with you on all points but the bolded point.... I kill DKs 1v1 all the time, as long as they are not abusing the bash bug/exploit (w/e you want to call it at this point).
It generally takes a while to kill them, it is a totally different strategy to kill them, you have to let them blow all of their resources trying to kill you, and just focus on healing yourself through it. After a short amount of time the DK will be resource starved and you can kill him pretty effortlessly.
I am fine with everything a DK can do, besides Reflective Scales, I believe that ability is a little over the top.
This all revolves around being a Templar, though.
I feel for NB, Sorcs can just disengage.Syndy - VR14 Breton Templar
Sacrilege
Daggerfall Covenant
Warhammer
Syndia - 100 Zealot, Syndai - 99 Black Guard, Cyndrana - 84 Sorceress0 -
Exactly right on there. I am DK and the people that give me the most trouble are templars. You are spot on with the healing yourself while I drain my resources. If I can't kill the templar within about 5 seconds of engaging I usually lose that battle.
Edited by buttclown69 on 20 May 2014 02:020 -
daienkaib16_ESOSoul ShrivenI find it frustrating how you can just be put in talons right away after you roll out of them.0
