Rare Motifs = In-game currency isn't enough for some players (ARGH!)

Raash

Catflinger wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Seriously... if someone is to buy a motif for real cash, so what?

It's a copyright violation, a bannable offense, and against the EULA to sell them and against the EULA and a bannable offense to buy them, that's what.

Of coarse it is. My question still stands tho. So what? it would happen anyway, if someone is ready to pay real cash for ingame items there is no way to stop him/her. it would happen on forums on the internet(my bet is that it has been done so for quite some time already) and unless zenimax make it illegal to send stuff to other players there is no way to tell if it was a bought item or not?

Beesting

Ok, but then remove the rare motives from everyone in the game so we all have a level playingfield.
Like in pvp after 90 days,
Round 2, happy looting everyone :-)

Arthur_Spoonfondle

There would be no-one selling motifs for inflated prices, or real money, if there were not stupid people out there willing to pay.

Catflinger

Raash wrote: »

Catflinger wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Seriously... if someone is to buy a motif for real cash, so what?

It's a copyright violation, a bannable offense, and against the EULA to sell them and against the EULA and a bannable offense to buy them, that's what.

Of coarse it is. My question still stands tho. So what?

Why are you asking me this when you already know the answer? I'm frankly very surprised that the forum mods are allowing posts from people defending RMT and explaining how it is done to stay up. Other gaming companies do not.

Catflinger

whoops, sorry

Sidereal

Catflinger wrote: »

Look, if you don't have an answer to my questions, just admit it, OK? If you need them repeated, I'm happy to:

"Explain how nerfing the drops as drastically as was done has helped the matter -- at all. Explain that wonderful "excitement" people get when forking over inflated -- yes, inflated -- amounts of gold or even real money because they have no hope at all of ever finding these items in game. Explain all this please."

I'll add that a desire to work hard for one's spoils rather than handing over real money to people like yourself doesn't translate to wanting a handout. Now, will you answer my questions or keep defending RMT?

You're too combative for answers. Look at how you've already decided that I RMT. Based off of what? Screenshots? Audio/video? Have you or your friends purchased anything from me? Conjecture and skewed interpretations. When those two are the basis for your argument, you have to understand that all of the winky face emoticons in the world won't lend you a wink (see what I did there?) of credibility.

I'll humor you though. The current idea in play is that RMTs have hundreds, or thousands, nay millions of materials and rare motifs in stock. You know that's not the case. You're upset with me, and you'd like to win/prove something to me/everyone (why?), but we all know you're smarter than that. If the drop rates were left alone, RMTs would simply have increased their stock--at least they're stuck with what they have, which is likely a couple hundred motifs on what accounts that aren't banned. "But I still get mail from RMTs claiming to have millions!" and a lot of those RMTs likely don't have a single motif--their game is to steal your credit card/debit info.

I don't know anyone who spends real money on items, so I cannot answer your second question. Aside from being a frivolous way of spending hard earned money, it's dangerous for the reason I mentioned above--I advise friends, family, guildmates and anyone who will listen against it. I don't know how you, or your acquaintances feel when you use those websites--perhaps you could tell us.

As for no hope of getting these items? Even if you have a 1 in a million chance at finding these rare motifs the chance is still there, but rest assure the odds aren't that bad. Also, purchasing these things for in game currency isn't the end of the world, but I'd like to know what your idea of a fair price for an Ancient Elf motif is?

Sidereal

Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »

There would be no-one selling motifs for inflated prices, or real money, if there were not stupid people out there willing to pay.

This.

Rage_Frost

Well I have now gotten in game emails from gold farmers now selling them with gold.
So while Zen nerfed the Motifs they have now nerfed them so hard that non botting players can never get them without resorting to paying some Gold Farmer for them....

I have asked everyone in my guild over the last week this same question.
"Anyone loot any Motifs since that nerf patch a couple of weeks ago I had 1 Person say yeah a non rare one "1" out of 500 people in the guild...

Now I under stand why the gold farmers are now including that in the Spam Mail they send you its a great way for them to make some real money.
And if you wanted to buy one from a player in game LOL you see the prices they are charging! 100k to 250k.

Stupid Nerf that only hurts your true fan's of the game
"The Players" IE non botting gold farmers....

Raash

Catflinger wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Catflinger wrote: »

Raash wrote: »

Seriously... if someone is to buy a motif for real cash, so what?

It's a copyright violation, a bannable offense, and against the EULA to sell them and against the EULA and a bannable offense to buy them, that's what.

Of coarse it is. My question still stands tho. So what?

Why are you asking me this when you already know the answer? I'm frankly very surprised that the forum mods are allowing posts from people defending RMT and explaining how it is done to stay up. Other gaming companies do not.

i am not sure if you missunderstand me or if im not being clear enough, but i dont see any way for zenimax or anyone to stop this. I dont even know what RMT is(educate me if you wish) and it really doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand there is no way to tell if an item sent by mail was paid for with paypal or not.
And as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the problem is not low drop rates, the problem is that there are people out there who are willing to pay real cash for stupid vanity stuff in a game such as this. And my point is, it doesnt matter. There is nothing that can be done about it since it will happen one way or the other.

Raash

Rage_Frost wrote: »

Well I have now gotten in game emails from gold farmers now selling them with gold.
So while Zen nerfed the Motifs they have now nerfed them so hard that non botting players can never get them without resorting to paying some Gold Farmer for them....

I have asked everyone in my guild over the last week this same question.
"Anyone loot any Motifs since that nerf patch a couple of weeks ago I had 1 Person say yeah a non rare one "1" out of 500 people in the guild...

Now I under stand why the gold farmers are now including that in the Spam Mail they send you its a great way for them to make some real money.
And if you wanted to buy one from a player in game LOL you see the prices they are charging! 100k to 250k.

Stupid Nerf that only hurts your true fan's of the game
"The Players" IE non botting gold farmers....

I think the real misstake was to have the drop rates way to high from the beginning and wait a full month to set it straight. To make the game fair again at this point they would need to reset the game and hand out a free lvl 20,30, 40, 50 character to all that reached that level. I would wish for it
The way they handled much in this game so far have only favored cheaters & exploiters sadly enough.

Sidereal

Full bank/inventory reset barring current equipment and selected mount, provided we keep our levels? I could do that.

Junipus

Cogo wrote: »

On another note. I really like that they making motifs rare. They are way to common now. I even hope they create some new types of motifs that only can be gained by some specific, like dropping from a big raid boss, or extended quest, or simply find an old lady out in nowhere who you talk to and in the dialog simply listen to her, where there is an option to stop listening, and in the end...she gives you a gift......motif!

This lady thing though must have a long cooldown like a week, and preferbly move location each week. Get what I mean?

Do it for M'aiq instead, that'll make it even rarer and a lot more fun

Catflinger

Sidereal wrote: »

You're upset with me,

No. In fact, after writing the last couple of posts in the thread, I went and took a little nap. Believe it or not, some people can engage in a lively debate and not be upset. I'm one of those people. I'm a veteran of Usenet; I can handle far worse than a freaking game forum, I assure you.

If the drop rates were left alone, RMTs would simply have increased their stock--at least they're stuck with what they have, which is likely a couple hundred motifs on what accounts that aren't banned. "But I still get mail from RMTs claiming to have millions!" and a lot of those RMTs likely don't have a single motif--their game is to steal your credit card/debit info.

I understand all of this; and you might have noted, if you hadn't been so busy building up gigantic strawmen so that you could admire your handiwork before gallantly tearing them down (as here), my position is not that the drops should never have been touched all, but that they went much too far with the nerf and that they should now buff the drops a bit to compensate.

Also, purchasing these things for in game currency isn't the end of the world, but I'd like to know what your idea of a fair price for an Ancient Elf motif is?

In a robust game economy that would be roughly comparable to the one on the World of Warcraft server that I play, I wouldn't hesitate to pay the current going market rate for an Ancient Elf motif after checking out the seller. Here, and now? I cannot fairly judge what the answer is, because the only people I ever see selling them in zone chat where I'm currently playing are the same two players, and I have to wonder how they got so many of them. The economy is a mess. Prices are being set by dupers, RMTraders, and botters rather than the players. I won't buy anything from a stranger at the moment.

I am sitting on my gold for the most part, and when I do need to buy something, I buy from the small guild store I have access to, because I know my guildmaster is very good about keeping an eye on who he lets in.

I cannot answer your question. I have no idea what a "fair price" for this item might be.

Knottypine

Seroczynski wrote: »

It's not the drop rate nerf that is the problem here, but the lack of actions towards people who sell those items for real money.

You cannot ignore that the drop rate nerf is contributing to this. Not saying that it would stop real money sales, but it may decrease it as least.

Blackwidow

Motifs were just a fluff piece. They gave no advantage in the game.

If bots were collecting them and selling them, just add more to the game, not less.

What would be the harm if everyone found motifs easily?

esoone

RMT isnt allowed. People using rmt to get it is the main reason there so expensive not the container nerf. The rmt traders buying em all up and sell em for rmt thats causing the hi prices. Also the containers needed a motif drop nerf cause you basicly could get em almost out of every container you opened even had a guildy getting 3 out of 1 cabinet. The motifs are blue not white so they should be rare. If you see someone driving a porche you go whine to the porchedealer complaining it ruins your life you dont have a porche or you dont find one in your cabinet?

felixgamingx1

Nerfing creates more bots, Un-Nerf everything is worthless. the word here is balance....

babylon

The only way to fix this is to either make the motifs and recipes bind to account on pickup (this would stop goldsellers and exploiters immediately) and return their droprate to the pre-nerf rates, or SIGNIFICANTLY increase the drop rate so that everyone can get them for free or cheaply from others selling in their guild shops.

driosketch

Drop rate and real money trading are two separate issues. You can discuss the former without bringing the latter into it to try and justify your stance, (as if this would fix that problem).

As for RTM, if I see it, I report the player. End of story.

Anastasia

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

Good job on nerfing the rare Motifs, Zenimax. Now we have players asking for real currency for the Daedric Motif in the game. You've made it so rare that some players are charging up to $200 via PayPal to obtain the item from them. (and you better bet players are paying out real cash for items like this in your game)

If you're going to continue to nerf item drops like this in your game then you should greatly expect to see players abusing your games system even more in the near future. I don't care if every player later has the Daedric Motif skins - to me it's just fun stuff to have. And I don't care if Johny-Nose-Picker doesn't want other players having it because his snot-nose thinks he should only be the unique player in the game.

Stop nerfing items that give players a chance to have fun and put a stop to players extorting other players within your game.

Step up to the plate, Zenimax, and start doing something about these types of abuse in your game. You developed this game but as of late you seem to have about-faced us.

You have two options here and one of them making Motifs bind-on-pickup. The other is to just let players enjoy the game with the previous drop rates and have fun.

---

Whatever the REASON is that this is happening, and whatever the intelligence level of those who actually use real dollars to buy those motifs wherever they are able to *smirk, Zeni is not the relevant issue in this.

Really, I find it almost unfing believable, but then I remind myself of the oh so many types of 1st world problems and realize I shouldn't be so shocked ;o/.

This is PLAYER CREATED CONTENT. Unfortunately, not a shining example of it, but thats literally what it is.

Maestro_Sartori

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

The saddest part about all of this is those of us who play legit are the ones that get screwed in the end by the developers. How is this supposed to encourage us to continue paying them $15 a month if they're going to continue beating us with the rod when we didn't exploit/questionable activities to obtain items within the game? I feel Zenimax is losing control of this game rather fast for such things to be happening so rapidly within the game.

But in the end the legit is what gets hurt by bad players actions.

This!!!

Amsel_McKay

Catflinger wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Remove Motifs from the game... Add in quests that explore the race that you want to craft and have to "help" racial crafters. After you finish the quests you unlock that style. For the "rare" styles make the quest long and difficult (Ancient Elf you have to go back in time or something) I'm sure you can come up with some cool ideas and stories.

I think this is a great idea.

I think my idea would fix ALL the motif problems... but it would take some code and quest writing so that is why they most likely wont do it.

Fairydragon3

all this for something cosmetic? i personally like them being rare. It makes it fun to haggle, but if have to pay over 20k for a Primitive motif (i've seen some for for 80k) I'll take my gold else where. It's a player based economy Prices are always fluctuating, but It is the demand that drives the prices up. So stop demanding something (that honestly has no value in progression), and you will see the price drop. As for the RMT, if they actually chat u that there are selling it for real currency. REPORT THEIR BUTT, get the screenshot, wont see them again, that is just as bad a gold farming and they will be permanently banned

Gisgo

I think its against the TOS and you can/should report them but then again, who's the idiot wasting 200 bucks on a motif?

Nephys

ZoS, in their wisdom (or lack of it) have done the proverbial "Close the gate after the horse has bolted", leaving legitimate players paying the price. Unfortunately it seems as if this is becoming their modus operandi.

We are now in a situation where the botters and exploiters have managed to hike up the price of rare motifs, by advertising in zone "WTB Daedric motif 200k". I have tried to call the bluff of these people and invariably the response is "COD" or they go quiet. I have not found one that was willing to meet and trade for my (non-existent) motif. It appears the aim was to hike the price by making people believe that players were paying these sorts of prices and it seems to have worked. The nerf was not the solution to this issue, because it has meant that those levelling at a slower rate, rather than bolting through, are now stymied.

I would suggest that bind to account motifs are introduced and the drop rate on these is reasonable. This would put an end to the RMT brought about by the frustration some players feel at the over-zealous use of the ZoS nerf hammer.

Blackwolfe5

Un-nerf droprates, make motif unlocks accountwide and make them bound on pickup.

babylon

The solution is clear ZOS - as we've been saying:

• make motifs and recipes bind to account on pickup and return droprates to pre-nerf state

or

• make droprates extremely high so everyone can get them

Choose one and this will all go away.

F7sus4

Call me ignorant, but I thought that you'll actually find all racial motifs books somewhere till the end-game (I'm missing just 3-4 of them only) just like Mages' Guild lorebooks. Why would be that a bad idea considering not everyone is interested in crafting and all it does is just visual improvement?

badmojo

So what's the solution? Nothing is rare because people might sell it? No thanks.

babylon

badmojo wrote: »

So what's the solution? Nothing is rare because people might sell it? No thanks.

Yep, that's the solution. Make an economy based around crafted items and drops earned through hard work, rather than an economy based around the RNG from opening a box.

With all motifs and recipes bound to account then they go to the people who want them (crafters), not to the people who want to exploit the crafters (goldsellers and the exploiters and dupers from start of game).

Same result from making drops plentiful, though I'm thinking bound to account on pickup is the best and most direct solution here.

Just to be clear, both allow for increasing the drop rate in containers, so we can all get back to the excitement of looting chests and containers in the buildings we walk into, rather than the disappointment of only finding lockpicks and empty containers.