30 Day Reserch Time For The Last Trait

Sacklunch

Really I mean do they even bother thinking about this stuff or do they just throw a dart at a wall with numbers on it while blindfolded? Seriously the math is quite simple 14 items for clothing, 14 items for smithing, and 6 for woodworking. Even with my research skill maxed I can only research 3 items at a time so 14/3= 4.6. That's 5 rounds of 26 day waits on last trait. 5 months REALY and that is an at best scenario if you don't have the skill points to invest in the research passive it can take up to 11 months. I am all for a time clock on the traits so every Jo-Shmo cant just go craft a Spectre's Eye or Kagrenac's Hope set but at least be proportional with it. I have been crafting for seven weeks or so and I'm almost to level 40 in everything(50 in a few) it is soooo not going to take me another 20 weeks to hit level 50. I know that crafting was one of the things for the "in the future" patches but dam. Please Zenimax change this and change it fast.

Sendarya

Although I agree to an extent, I remember back when people played MMO's longer than 2 or 3 months, so long term goals were more accepted, I guess.
I hope I'll still be here in 5 months to be one of those rare people that has all the traits researched.

freddy_hgnrb18_ESO

With dedication comes reward
Think about it logically, if you were actually making a piece of armour or a weapon - and you wanted to learn how to make it better - do you honestly expect to be able to learn all you can about that one aspect to improve on in no time at all?

The more you learn about improving something, the longer it will take to learn EVEN MORE about that item.

By the time you've researched all 8 traits on 1 item of gear (be it armour or weapon) it will take 64 days (without factoring in 5%/10% reductions from other skill passives)

I am now 6/8 across all medium armour, working on 7/8, and 7/8 on Bows (working on 8th) It's taken a while - but its entirely worth the effort I've put in to actually acquire the items for researching - because when I've finally researched Everything - i will be able to make ANYTHING for myself, my alts, and friends who are looking for some way to improve their characters.

I never expected it to be something Everyone could do and achieve with little effort - for those complaining about the time sink, its mostly a case of "I don't want to have to wait, or put any actual effort in" / "I just want it now because I should be able to"

Master crafters all want to feel like they have actually earned the ability to make the best of the best items, and improve on them - its the reward at the end of their dedication to the skill.

Kuratla

Just wait until they add 9th and 10th traits to items..... which'll take 60 and 120 days to research, respectively. Hmm.... actually, no. Don't think that'll happen. That's nuts.

Sacklunch

Well freddy_hgnrb18_ESO as a retort to your post; I love people who talk about logic and then spout nothing but opinions. [Mod edit] The definition of logic is as follows: an interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen is inevitable or predictable. Where as a time sink is definitely inevitable and very predictable in an MMO it is definitely NOT interrelated to the facts OR events in game. Fact: Traits have absolutely no impact on crafting level at all, you can be level 1 or level 50 and still unlock all of them. Fact: In game I can teleport hundreds of miles in mere seconds, up my crafting level by a hole unit just by reading a book, disassemble an entire armor set in seconds and get trait items from doing so. [Mod edit]. If I can learn any trait in 6 hours why then can I not lean the exact same trait I was gong to learn 6 hours ago in the same amount of time now in the present? Did I get a concussion in those 6 hours or was my memory simply magicized(if we are just creating words) and now I forgot the past /s. Also if I can know how to get a trait gem from a piece of armor why cant I put it back where it was in a new one? Simply comparing your view of real life to the game mechanics is fundamentally illogical.

On your second point freddy_hgnrb18_ESO by the time you unlock enough traits to make a set of armor your friends will not want or need anything you can make as they will all be VR10 running Craglorn and will be getting the VR sets from the boss drops which will be better than any set you can make. FYI as well you can not make "ANYTHING" as us crafters can not unlock any of the set bonuses on the gear that the mob bosses drop. Some of these from what I've seen are far superior to any set bonuses we get, but I will digress as that is another thread in itself.

As for your third point I have been crafting everything since the early release and have spent hundreds of hours gathering, deconstructing, and making every item that is available to me. I put in the time and still have plenty to go. I simply do not feel that finding an item that has a trait you need and then clicking on it once only to have to wait 30 or so days involves any effort whatsoever. It is the actual increasing of your crafting level that requires the effort and time. So please do not try to belittle me simply because you think your willingness to accept the passage of time restraints makes you a "Master crafter". I hate to be the one to break it to you but time will pass if you do absolutely nothing, clicking a mouse button once between point A and point B does not take mastering at all. But hey whatever get you through it, I just want a shorter wait time on the 8th and final trait.

Hornex

You should try the skill tree on eve. It can take years of real time to fly some ships effectively.

Hornex

Sacklunch wrote: »

Well freddy_hgnrb18_ESO as a retort to your post; I love people who talk about logic and then spout nothing but opinions. [Mod edit] The definition of logic is as follows: an interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen is inevitable or predictable. Where as a time sink is definitely inevitable and very predictable in an MMO it is definitely NOT interrelated to the facts OR events in game. Fact: Traits have absolutely no impact on crafting level at all, you can be level 1 or level 50 and still unlock all of them. Fact: In game I can teleport hundreds of miles in mere seconds, up my crafting level by a hole unit just by reading a book, disassemble an entire armor set in seconds and get trait items from doing so. [Mod edit]. If I can learn any trait in 6 hours why then can I not lean the exact same trait I was gong to learn 6 hours ago in the same amount of time now in the present? Did I get a concussion in those 6 hours or was my memory simply magicized(if we are just creating words) and now I forgot the past /s. Also if I can know how to get a trait gem from a piece of armor why cant I put it back where it was in a new one? Simply comparing your view of real life to the game mechanics is fundamentally illogical.

On your second point freddy_hgnrb18_ESO by the time you unlock enough traits to make a set of armor your friends will not want or need anything you can make as they will all be VR10 running Craglorn and will be getting the VR sets from the boss drops which will be better than any set you can make. FYI as well you can not make "ANYTHING" as us crafters can not unlock any of the set bonuses on the gear that the mob bosses drop. Some of these from what I've seen are far superior to any set bonuses we get, but I will digress as that is another thread in itself.

As for your third point I have been crafting everything since the early release and have spent hundreds of hours gathering, deconstructing, and making every item that is available to me. I put in the time and still have plenty to go. I simply do not feel that finding an item that has a trait you need and then clicking on it once only to have to wait 30 or so days involves any effort whatsoever. It is the actual increasing of your crafting level that requires the effort and time. So please do not try to belittle me simply because you think your willingness to accept the passage of time restraints makes you a "Master crafter". I hate to be the one to break it to you but time will pass if you do absolutely nothing, clicking a mouse button once between point A and point B does not take mastering at all. But hey whatever get you through it, I just want a shorter wait time on the 8th and final trait.

This post is a crime against typography, please add spaces it just puts people off reading it.

Shiaxi

Sacklunch wrote: »

Well freddy_hgnrb18_ESO as a retort to your post; I love people who talk about logic and then spout nothing but opinions. [Mod edit] The definition of logic is as follows: an interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen is inevitable or predictable. Where as a time sink is definitely inevitable and very predictable in an MMO it is definitely NOT interrelated to the facts OR events in game. Fact: Traits have absolutely no impact on crafting level at all, you can be level 1 or level 50 and still unlock all of them. Fact: In game I can teleport hundreds of miles in mere seconds, up my crafting level by a hole unit just by reading a book, disassemble an entire armor set in seconds and get trait items from doing so. [Mod edit]. If I can learn any trait in 6 hours why then can I not lean the exact same trait I was gong to learn 6 hours ago in the same amount of time now in the present? Did I get a concussion in those 6 hours or was my memory simply magicized(if we are just creating words) and now I forgot the past /s. Also if I can know how to get a trait gem from a piece of armor why cant I put it back where it was in a new one? Simply comparing your view of real life to the game mechanics is fundamentally illogical.

On your second point freddy_hgnrb18_ESO by the time you unlock enough traits to make a set of armor your friends will not want or need anything you can make as they will all be VR10 running Craglorn and will be getting the VR sets from the boss drops which will be better than any set you can make. FYI as well you can not make "ANYTHING" as us crafters can not unlock any of the set bonuses on the gear that the mob bosses drop. Some of these from what I've seen are far superior to any set bonuses we get, but I will digress as that is another thread in itself.

As for your third point I have been crafting everything since the early release and have spent hundreds of hours gathering, deconstructing, and making every item that is available to me. I put in the time and still have plenty to go. I simply do not feel that finding an item that has a trait you need and then clicking on it once only to have to wait 30 or so days involves any effort whatsoever. It is the actual increasing of your crafting level that requires the effort and time. So please do not try to belittle me simply because you think your willingness to accept the passage of time restraints makes you a "Master crafter". I hate to be the one to break it to you but time will pass if you do absolutely nothing, clicking a mouse button once between point A and point B does not take mastering at all. But hey whatever get you through it, I just want a shorter wait time on the 8th and final trait.

I shall use your text as a tower shield on my Dragon knight and it will be impenetrable!

Sacklunch

LOL edited and well met

Shiaxi

Sacklunch wrote: »

SNIP

devs have mentioned crafting getting a bunch of love to compensate for the craglorn expansion aswel tho..

haven't really elaborated on what kind of love but I imagine new sets, new crafting levels and possibly *groan* more traits

clocksstoppe

Sacklunch wrote: »

Well freddy_hgnrb18_ESO as a retort to your post; I love people who talk about logic and then spout nothing but opinions. [Mod edit] The definition of logic is as follows: an interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen is inevitable or predictable. Where as a time sink is definitely inevitable and very predictable in an MMO it is definitely NOT interrelated to the facts OR events in game. Fact: Traits have absolutely no impact on crafting level at all, you can be level 1 or level 50 and still unlock all of them. Fact: In game I can teleport hundreds of miles in mere seconds, up my crafting level by a hole unit just by reading a book, disassemble an entire armor set in seconds and get trait items from doing so. [Mod edit]. If I can learn any trait in 6 hours why then can I not lean the exact same trait I was gong to learn 6 hours ago in the same amount of time now in the present? Did I get a concussion in those 6 hours or was my memory simply magicized(if we are just creating words) and now I forgot the past /s. Also if I can know how to get a trait gem from a piece of armor why cant I put it back where it was in a new one? Simply comparing your view of real life to the game mechanics is fundamentally illogical.

On your second point freddy_hgnrb18_ESO by the time you unlock enough traits to make a set of armor your friends will not want or need anything you can make as they will all be VR10 running Craglorn and will be getting the VR sets from the boss drops which will be better than any set you can make. FYI as well you can not make "ANYTHING" as us crafters can not unlock any of the set bonuses on the gear that the mob bosses drop. Some of these from what I've seen are far superior to any set bonuses we get, but I will digress as that is another thread in itself.

As for your third point I have been crafting everything since the early release and have spent hundreds of hours gathering, deconstructing, and making every item that is available to me. I put in the time and still have plenty to go. I simply do not feel that finding an item that has a trait you need and then clicking on it once only to have to wait 30 or so days involves any effort whatsoever. It is the actual increasing of your crafting level that requires the effort and time. So please do not try to belittle me simply because you think your willingness to accept the passage of time restraints makes you a "Master crafter". I hate to be the one to break it to you but time will pass if you do absolutely nothing, clicking a mouse button once between point A and point B does not take mastering at all. But hey whatever get you through it, I just want a shorter wait time on the 8th and final trait.

so you say that the game doesnt use real life logic and then proceed to complain about an element that also doesnt follow real life logic from the game. are you dumb?

Enkil

I think the research times are fine.. It should take months to craft the best level of crafted items.

The problem is that the crafted sets that require 8 traits are not on par with other sets that can be acquired from dungeons or in Cyrodil. Even the random green drop sets are better in a lot of cases.

The Devs said that crafted sets would be on as good as or better. That simply is not the case and it would be great if they would work to fix that by boosting them and making them truly comparable.

Laerania_ESO

Apparently, the game is designed for long term players, which is ok in a certain degree. However, the world has changed, everything is faster now; the developers here expect that the 2014 people act like slow and patient DOS players. That is not gonna happen.

Why you people think that most mmos implemented auto loot, remote loot, fast travels, open tapping, portable npcs (banks, trainers, mail), Auction Houses and all kind of stuff to optimize the time spent in game?

People talking about dedication, nonsenses! do we have to go back in time and write letters with pen&paper to show dedication to our beloved. Don't be cheap, pick a phone and call them everyday, better than that: use instant messages fast fast fast.

Gillysan

Nope, only thing that needs to be changed here is the OP's weak willed, weak minded, weak of spirit, weak of fortitude approach to life.

Lupinemw

Really why does everyone think everything is now..

I've been playing an MMO for 5 years now and my current research will be taking be 3 months and Oh just to add to it I can research 1, yes 1 item at a time.

Get over it enjoy the fact that its a challange. Unless you turned up day one of school and finished it with a Dr of everything..

teox76

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

Apparently, the game is designed for long term players, which is ok in a certain degree. However, the world has changed, everything is faster now; the developers here expect that the 2014 people act like slow and patient DOS players. That is not gonna happen.

Why you people think that most mmos implemented auto loot, remote loot, fast travels, open tapping, portable npcs (banks, trainers, mail), Auction Houses and all kind of stuff to optimize the time spent in game?

People talking about dedication, nonsenses! do we have to go back in time and write letters with pen&paper to show dedication to our beloved. Don't be cheap, pick a phone and call them everyday, better than that: use instant messages fast fast fast.

[off-topic]
Not sure if using sarcasm or if you really meant that (english is my second language) but anyway, if you think about it, the thing that makes an action thoughtful and more significative, it's the time and attention we use to do it. It's very easy to pick up the phone and say Hi, or even to write an SMS or Hangout, and it's of course very appreciated. But to actually take the time to write a well written letter, maybe with an high quality letter paper and envelope, will make a vast better impression, and your act will be far more appreciated by lovers and relatives than a quick "Hey 'sssup ?"
[/off-topic]

I find detrimental the need and expectation of quick gratification, like that everything is due to people without any effort and patience. It's not like that without that particular trait you can not play the game or anything. Is only a little part of the game, even if you are a dedicated crafter.

edit: But of course, if after having waited all that time, the items I can create are not worth the time spent, there is clearly a problem that should be addressed, in my opinion, by making the crafted items up to par to dropped ones, not by reducing the time required to learn to craft them.

Kililin

Since it is useless and everything that is asked for at VR10 has covenant in his name, it doesnt matter how long the research takes.

Dinapuff

I personally do not see how researching a bunch of useless traits that nobody wants will unlock my potential to craft worthwhile sets.

It wouldn't be so bad if there were more sets to unlock or choose from, but there are already dropped set bonuses more worthwhile than even the 8 trait sets (magica furnace).

Ruddertail

Enkil wrote: »

I think the research times are fine.. It should take months to craft the best level of crafted items.

The problem is that the crafted sets that require 8 traits are not on par with other sets that can be acquired from dungeons or in Cyrodil. Even the random green drop sets are better in a lot of cases.

The Devs said that crafted sets would be on as good as or better. That simply is not the case and it would be great if they would work to fix that by boosting them and making them truly comparable.

On the other hand the 6-trait sets are far better than anything that drops anywhere.

Edit: for example, willow's path on a precise staff gives you more spellcrit than the Wrath of the Imperium dropped set and leaves you free to use good rings instead of those awful ones. You can even fit in another 3-piece bonus on top of that, or a 5-piece even.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

The only sets that are better than drooped green ones are the 8 Trait
I mean any VR Grenn is far better. Hope they make some 7 Trait sets and possibly boost the others a bit. I have 6 Traits on all heavy armor and started the 16 days waiting for 7th Trait

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

Gillysan wrote: »

Nope, only thing that needs to be changed here is the OP's weak willed, weak minded, weak of spirit, weak of fortitude approach to life.

I see your point, but if you truly mean it then we should stop playing MMOs in the first place:-).

As was said by @Laerania_ESO‌ people today rush, you can not expect them to slow down unfortunately. That is why imho MMOs as game design is dieing.

We have fast travel which is free or very cheap to use, we have teleports to dungeons so you don't need to walk to dungeon etc.

People want everything fast. Like in first 30 days you should be able to reach top level, level up all skills. Craft the best gear and just log in for queue for dungeon or pvp and thats it... Modern approach to MMOs.

Which I find funny - MMOs - games with long run are getting fast paced and instanced as much as possible.

FPS fames invented ranking progression to unlock gear. Can someone explain why the hell does FPS games implemented unlocks? It IS supposed to be fair quick action game. Not grind more to unlock the gun hou actualy want to use.... (took me like 20 levels in BF4 to unlock sniper rifle I wanted to use from day one...)

MMO is supposed to be time consuming and reward you for time invested.
But somehow those two game types mixed up little bit no?

Ruddertail

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

The only sets that are better than drooped green ones are the 8 Trait
I mean any VR Grenn is far better. Hope they make some 7 Trait sets and possibly boost the others a bit. I have 6 Traits on all heavy armor and started the 16 days waiting for 7th Trait

I just gave you an example of how crafted sets give you far more bonuses than anything that drops. Legendary Willow's Path staff with the Precise trait (can't get that on the WotI set) is 12% spellcrit instead of 10%, and leaves your ring slots free for good rings instead of bad ones.

Then on top of that you can have a 5-piece set of your choice.

The dropped worm cult armor might seem good. It has no traits. It's terrible. The necropotence set might seem good. It has STURDY as a trait which is just insulting.

The benefit of crafting is you can trait as you want, and that's very important.

Slantasiam

what is up with people these days... I want it now! its toooo hard.....everyone but me is OP! waaa waaaa waaaa......

Enkil

I agree with you about the spell crit set that requires 6 traits. That one feels powerful and makes sense. Scale the others off that and it would be nice. There are sets that can provide benefits to the whole party. Something like that would be appropriate for the 8th trait level sets.

Ruddertail

Enkil wrote: »

I agree with you about the spell crit set that requires 6 traits. That one feels powerful and makes sense. Scale the others off that and it would be nice. There are sets that can provide benefits to the whole party. Something like that would be appropriate for the 8th trait level sets.

A little bird whispered in my ear that the crafted sets are getting buffed. For example, Twilight's Embrace (10% extra healing) will also have 5% spellcrit as a 5-piece bonus. I've got no source for this, though, but it came from the same bird who informed me of the "Of the Arena" set which is confirmed to come.

ShADoW0s

Yup, when I saw 30 days, I had a mini heart attack.

Valkerian

Hornex wrote: »

This post is a crime against typography, please add spaces it just puts people off reading it.

You actually read it? I read the first line then said NOPE!

mndfreeze

I like it. I want things in this game to take longer and be harder to get to so I play and enjoy it longer. I'm tired of the newschool idea of mmo's it seems where people want to hit max level in a week and have all the uberest gear no later then a month, then whine when they run out of content at month 2. =( As far as I'm concerned since crafting is being shown as so important overall to the game and not just some little side fancy, it needs to have some long term uber goals to make those with true dedication stand out.

That said, the crafted sets do need to be reworked a bit. I'm currently using 3 sets of 3 piece each, Syrabane, the only dropped one for spell resist (ring,ring, shoulders) then Torugs Pact for 100 armor and Seducer for the 3% spell cost decrease. I'm going to replace Syrabane for Magus or perhaps the crit chance set, but the 7 and 8 trait stuff seems kinad weaksauce since the bonus's are either kinda useless, or aer high regen for a stat which is easy to overcharge anyway.

kewl

Looking into my crystal ball...I see....research boosters being sold in the cash shop.

mndfreeze

I see, your crystal ball is made of cheap plastic. sorry.

Celless

I think the research times are good.

As long as we can work with other players to make those 8-trait pieces (e.g. Paul makes the Light Shoes, Jacqui makes the Light Shoulders, etc.) in the meantime. I'm not only fine with this, I think it's good in the networking aspect of the MMO. Now if set items were bind on pickup, no, I would be protesting in a similar boat as you.