i feel stealth is over used by people... even people not focused in stealth.

dsalter

what if the stamina drain applied even when staying still BUT a high enough stam regen rate will nullify it (but not recover it) and also the passives that impact stealths effectiveness could be given a slight stealth cost reduction so those focused into it can actually use it well.

far to many times have i seen entire "gank" squads of atleast 5 HEAVY using DK's just come out of stealth.

it'll still be useful, just not AS useful as say that NB over there specced entirely into stabbing you or sniping.

dsalter

oh and just to add, having the passives + a decent stam regen rate means you'll gain stamina staying still similar to now.

maholi

Stealth feels perfect where it is at to me. I love seeing large groups unstealth one after another. It relies on tactics and I like it

Nox_Aeterna

maholi wrote: »

Stealth feels perfect where it is at to me. I love seeing large groups unstealth one after another. It relies on tactics and I like it

I agree that is fine for now.

I magine the thieves g and dark brothehood , will add more skills related to stealth.

dsalter

maholi wrote: »

Stealth feels perfect where it is at to me. I love seeing large groups unstealth one after another. It relies on tactics and I like it

i'm fine with stealth, it's how freely given it is, you dnt even need to put any skills or gear focus into making it work which gives Nightblades no real advantage over other classes or non-stealth builds.

i'm not saying stop stealths on non-NB's, i'm saying make stealth something you strive for as a build but NB's having a natural affinity of skills for it making it easier to focus stealth as one of those (or dont focus it at all, be a duelist lol).

but in reallity not everyone can sneak around, you work and practice for that kind of talent

maholi

I like not having one class be the 'stealth' class. I like that we are all on equal footing in that regard.

dsalter

maholi wrote: »

I like not having one class be the 'stealth' class. I like that we are all on equal footing in that regard.

again i'm not aiming for JUST NB stealths, what i mean is make others work for it, like healer's, anyone can go resto and work up gear n such for the healing but a temp has a natural affinity for it.
any class can tank by going sword n board with heavy, but a DK will have natural abilities in this.
at the moment EVERYONE has the ability to stealth at full power with nightblades only having a minor affinity for it.

i myself am a stealth based Sorc and even i find it to freely given as there isn't much i need to stealth effectivly, leaving nightblades with the short straw since they are naturally... meh at everything, even their own abilities

Nox_Aeterna

dsalter wrote: »

maholi wrote: »

I like not having one class be the 'stealth' class. I like that we are all on equal footing in that regard.

again i'm not aiming for JUST NB stealths, what i mean is make others work for it, like healer's, anyone can go resto and work up gear n such for the healing but a temp has a natural affinity for it.
any class can tank by going sword n board with heavy, but a DK will have natural abilities in this.
at the moment EVERYONE has the ability to stealth at full power with nightblades only having a minor affinity for it.

i myself am a stealth based Sorc and even i find it to freely given as there isn't much i need to stealth effectivly, leaving nightblades with the short straw since they are naturally... meh at everything, even their own abilities

Mate just wait for the thieves and dark brotherhood , they will probably have skills that are related to stealth.

Then people will need to lvl those guilds just like the fighters and mages guild to get access to the best stealth perks.

dsalter

Mate just wait for the thieves and dark brotherhood , they will probably have skills that are related to stealth.

Then people will need to lvl those guilds just like the fighters and mages guild to get access to the best stealth perks.

problem is stealth will still be at a disadvantage due to everyone being able to STEALTH effectivly, it's not the abilities it's the actual ability to stealth with very little upkeep cost on any build

Draconiuos

dsalter wrote: »

Mate just wait for the thieves and dark brotherhood , they will probably have skills that are related to stealth.

Then people will need to lvl those guilds just like the fighters and mages guild to get access to the best stealth perks.

problem is stealth will still be at a disadvantage due to everyone being able to STEALTH effectivly, it's not the abilities it's the actual ability to stealth with very little upkeep cost on any build

I am not sure what you mean by effectively, but try stealthing in heavy armor compared to someone in medium armor with passives. The heavy armor wearer will be spotting long before the medium armor guy. The fact of the matter is Night Blades aren't really meant to be a "stealth" class, but more of a high damage class that can use stealth in combat to get away. No one else can use stealth in the middle of combat.

Samadhi

dsalter wrote: »

...
i'm not saying stop stealths on non-NB's, i'm saying make stealth something you strive for as a build but NB's having a natural affinity of skills for it making it easier to focus stealth as one of those (or dont focus it at all, be a duelist lol).
...

The Nightblade Shadow skill line has a number of skills that are far more beneficial to stealth when played properly than I myself have previously given them credit for.

Some considerations:
Dark Cloak/Shadowy Disguise is a genuine invisibility; when chained together it allows for stealth movement at regular moving speed. It is highly effective to sneak to the bottom of the stamina bar, then go invisible, uncrouch and chain invisibility and travel while the Stamina Regen buff refills the bar, then crouch down again before Magicka empties.
This allows us to quickly traverse areas unseen, whereas all other classes are limited to 3 second potion invisibility with a long cooldown.

Path of Darkness increases move speed even while crouch stealthed. This is another option to chain cast for increased stealth movement speed; however, it does not allow us to vanish in the midst of combat.
Using this while travelling in stealth is doubly beneficial because it constantly buffs Stamina regen, meaning any time we stop moving our Stamina is regenerating at an accelerated pace.

Dark Shades can be summoned from stealth and do not cause us to be detected by other players.
The AI is buggy, but when it works the Shade will spawn and instantly run to whomever I target. I then use invisible to swap positions (in case they saw where I summoned from) and sneak around them while they fight my shade.
This can allow me to drain people of resources before actually engaging them in combat -- you would be surprised by the number of players that burn off skills trying to fight the Shades or escape them. Every wasted point of resources gives me an advantage after engaging.

The biggest issue is that the stealth skills are so heavy on Magicka use; it is simply not viable to really effectively chain cast them without being built for Magicka and reduced spell cost.
The same tactics are still available to medium armour users (who at least get additional bonuses to stamina and stealth to compensate), but they are not quite as versatile.

I don't have extended experience with Veiled Strike or Aspect of Terror and their morphs, but I feel relatively confident that they have some value when applied properly.

It's also very worth noting that Detection potions are an insanely powerful counter to stealth in this game. Meeting a good Alchemist destroys everything that can be done.

dsalter

Draconiuos wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Mate just wait for the thieves and dark brotherhood , they will probably have skills that are related to stealth.

Then people will need to lvl those guilds just like the fighters and mages guild to get access to the best stealth perks.

problem is stealth will still be at a disadvantage due to everyone being able to STEALTH effectivly, it's not the abilities it's the actual ability to stealth with very little upkeep cost on any build

I am not sure what you mean by effectively, but try stealthing in heavy armor compared to someone in medium armor with passives. The heavy armor wearer will be spotting long before the medium armor guy. The fact of the matter is Night Blades aren't really meant to be a "stealth" class, but more of a high damage class that can use stealth in combat to get away. No one else can use stealth in the middle of combat.

admittedly they cant move around as long while stealth but so can a DK who's gone Medium, thats the part everyone can work towards to make it worth, but that advantage ends when you stay still, you'll regen at full rate with no penalty for wearing bulky armor, leathery or cloth. so the only advantages is that you can get a smaller cost penalty for moving around.

Sorc can burn out damage as fast as a NB (unless he crits) and can stun lock you to boot but it's not about damage, it's about efficient stealthing.

all i'm saying is put a small -stamina regen on staying still as well as moving. want to stay stealthed while staying still? get alittle stam regen or get skills. thats all i'm saying while a nightblades passives should give him this nearly free of charge without being forced to go medium

Draconiuos

dsalter wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Mate just wait for the thieves and dark brotherhood , they will probably have skills that are related to stealth.

Then people will need to lvl those guilds just like the fighters and mages guild to get access to the best stealth perks.

problem is stealth will still be at a disadvantage due to everyone being able to STEALTH effectivly, it's not the abilities it's the actual ability to stealth with very little upkeep cost on any build

I am not sure what you mean by effectively, but try stealthing in heavy armor compared to someone in medium armor with passives. The heavy armor wearer will be spotting long before the medium armor guy. The fact of the matter is Night Blades aren't really meant to be a "stealth" class, but more of a high damage class that can use stealth in combat to get away. No one else can use stealth in the middle of combat.

admittedly they cant move around as long while stealth but so can a DK who's gone Medium, thats the part everyone can work towards to make it worth, but that advantage ends when you stay still, you'll regen at full rate with no penalty for wearing bulky armor, leathery or cloth. so the only advantages is that you can get a smaller cost penalty for moving around.

Sorc can burn out damage as fast as a NB (unless he crits) and can stun lock you to boot but it's not about damage, it's about efficient stealthing.

all i'm saying is put a small -stamina regen on staying still as well as moving. want to stay stealthed while staying still? get alittle stam regen or get skills. thats all i'm saying while a nightblades passives should give him this nearly free of charge without being forced to go medium

You missed the part where I said NB weren't so much about being stealth masters over everyone else, and more about using stealth in combat. The medium armor line is for those that want to be stealth masters, and anyone can do that. You don't see DKs complaining Sorc/NB can grab a sword and shield with heavy armor and tank do you? The DK has more survivability skills than those two, but the ability to tank is more in the Armor and weapon set up you have than your class. And that is the way stealth works.

Rylana

not a big fan of the plain sight stealthing myself. to stealth you should be near a wall or rock or something, this crap of being invisible in full daylight 6 meters from me in the middle of an open field in heavy armor, with a giant glowing stick of a staff...

wut

Tintinabula

I sort of agree about stealthing in day light but am soo thrilled that stealthing isn't a class specific skill..I just find it adds depth..and I loooove it :P

Harakh

Give NB the ability to detect hidden players as a buff like haste or Blur so it only goes 10 Sek or so.

And make Heavyarmor drain Stamina faster per piece of Armor 1% more Stamina Drain.

reagen_lionel

I think stealth works fine. In any other elder scrolls game. You can still utilize stealth even if you dont have any boons in it at all. There arent any downsides to stealth, which I think there at least should be a few, if you arent trained in it. But there are benefits to those who are.

Thing about stealth and the most important function is using it right. The boons only allow you to have more ease in using it. But the key function of stealth is using it right, weither you're specified in it or not. Which is where its doing right, here.

Now I personally think heavy armor as it always have should affect stealth, and with that, I think the stamina drain of using stealth in heavy armor should be increased than normal. Light armor barely having any stamina drain, where medium having the current stamina drain (since it naturally has passives that makes this easier anyway)

Thats all i think needs to be changed with stealth if any. but if they do this, I would say they will need to alter how npc's react with stealth a little.

For right now if you start getting detected, and you remove behind say a rock or something, the npcs still know you are there. detection works as a radius thing and does not take into account line of sight for objects (just like projectiles).

rotiferuk

Another lets nerf <insert ability / skill of your choice > thread.

KoooZ

rotiferuk wrote: »

Another lets nerf <insert ability / skill of your choice > thread.

I've read much of this thread and it really isn't.

rotiferuk

KoooZ wrote: »

rotiferuk wrote: »

Another lets nerf <insert ability / skill of your choice > thread.

I've read much of this thread and it really isn't.

Yes it is.

prana33b14_ESO

Every other thread is about making the classes exactly the same because "my DK can't bolt escape! durr" and now this one is "all the classes have the same skill, fix it!"

I'm pretty amazed at all the whining going on in this game. I knew the lore kiddies from the Skyrim games would be some whiny ass kids but these boards are a cess pool.

yodased

Just cause I'm wearing plate armor doesn't mean I can't hide behind a tree!

ChairGraveyard

maholi wrote: »

Stealth feels perfect where it is at to me. I love seeing large groups unstealth one after another. It relies on tactics and I like it

QFT

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I think instead of vampires getting stealth bonuses it should be for nightblades. Maybe even let both vamp and nb get the stealth bonuses, but they wont stack and make nb vamps crazy stealthy.

dsalter

reagen_lionel wrote: »

In any other elder scrolls game. You can still utilize stealth even if you dont have any boons in it at all.

actually there was a penalty for using heavy armor while sneaking if unskilled as it made more noise and slowed you down more. as well as skyrim having perks dedicated to ignoring armor weight while sneaking

dsalter

just to be clear i'm NOT saying only nightblades should be stealthers. i'm happy others can be. but not needing any sort of focus into it and gaining nearly all the benifits makes most of nightblades stealth abilities fall off weak due to there being alot less visible targets due to mass stealth with no penalty for the unskilled.

peter.harkessnrb18_ESO

Draconiuos wrote: »

The fact of the matter is Night Blades aren't really meant to be a "stealth" class, but more of a high damage class that can use stealth in combat to get away. No one else can use stealth in the middle of combat.

Sounds like a cool class. When are they going to put it in game?

dsalter

peter.harkessnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

The fact of the matter is Night Blades aren't really meant to be a "stealth" class, but more of a high damage class that can use stealth in combat to get away. No one else can use stealth in the middle of combat.

Sounds like a cool class. When are they going to put it in game?

heh that sly remark at how bad NB's are atm :P

reagen_lionel

dsalter wrote: »

reagen_lionel wrote: »

In any other elder scrolls game. You can still utilize stealth even if you dont have any boons in it at all.

actually there was a penalty for using heavy armor while sneaking if unskilled as it made more noise and slowed you down more. as well as skyrim having perks dedicated to ignoring armor weight while sneaking

I said you can utilize. I mentioned about the penalty for using stealth while wearing heavy armor. But the point being it did not prevent you from using stealth. Only your detectability was affected while moving.

Further in my post mentioned that very thing.

aeroch

Sneak is pretty dumb right now. Hopefully with Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood it receives an overhaul, but squatting on a road in the middle of the day shouldn't make you invisible 20 meters away

reagen_lionel

aeroch wrote: »

Sneak is pretty dumb right now. Hopefully with Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood it receives an overhaul, but squatting on a road in the middle of the day shouldn't make you invisible 20 meters away

Does that actually happen? Only thing I notice is that when people sneak they just turn really dark and blend in to whatever they're around a bit. Would imagine someone crouched in the middle of a road on a sunny day would be very noticeable when you just see a dark figure hunched over.

The only time I've noticed someone actually becomes unable to be seen completely is when they use invisibility or the night blade ability.

Invisibility and sneak isnt the same thing people.