Dark Talon spam

Frenzypanda

Funny how ppl are calling for nerfs for everything they cant win. Soon dragonknights will be left with auto attacks only.

I get talons by other dragonknights, so? Either you learn to manage your resources well and dodge away or you think of a way to escape. You burned all your stamina away, die and qq on forums for nerfs.

If 5 people jump you, you die immaterial you get taloned or not. If you managed to get away, that 5 will whine on forums saying you op.

Never ending.

Ps: oh yea in this game stamina pots and stamina recovery food exists in case you didn't know.

Cheers
Panda

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

There are 2 options:
1. Stay in melee and keep dpsing the dk and simply ignore the talons.
2. Roll/bolt/rapid manuver/purge or whatever the hell out of their talons range and keep your distance/kite them.

Many people fail to realize that the talons have a very reduced point blank area, they cant talon you if you're dpsing them from range. I do agree though that there should be a short 1-2 second immunity timer on talon expiration (and no refresh on timer when reapplied) or when person rolls out/cc breaks. That applies to most of the cc out there tho, not only to talons, the curent hard/soft cc immunity sistem is poorly designed and needs to be rethinked.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

Maybe this me being tired and stupid, but I think PvP is supposed to be team based.... so if you come across DK's and you know you cannot take them, you run like hell and call for help. I know DK has a BUTT ton of defensive moves, but they have an inate lack of gap closing making them incredibally susceptible to counter CC and ranged attacks. Kite the dragon.

Fortunately there are 2 gap closers on 2handed and shield and board and you have chain pull You are right though, the correct aproach to fighting a DK is keeping your distance while kiting (or running for your life).

DK's shine when in melee, not much you can do against them once they're in your face and this is where organized teams come into play

Frenzypanda

I seen a templar using single target knockdown spear locking down a dk. He kept his distance. Thats what I call using his brain to play. Btw chain pull can be blocked.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Frenzypanda wrote: »

I seen a templar using single target knockdown spear locking down a dk. He kept his distance. Thats what I call using his brain to play. Btw chain pull can be blocked.

Ohh i see, not a huge templar fan, the only class i didnt play but i might make one at some point if i ever find myself having problems when fighting one Knockdown can also be blocked, every hard cc can be blocked for that matter, it all comes down to latency (and reflexes i guess).

Preaty much what i said, DK is king of melee, get in there and you're toast, learn to kite and you might live to tell your guildies how you pwned that dk.

Starshadw

TheBull wrote: »

The damage is the worst part. Sure let them spam it as long as they nerf the unstoppable dmg.

This is actually a good point, and I recall having to bring it up with another MMO in the past:

A skill should either cc OR do damage, not both. Ever. No single skill should make it impossible for someone to do anything while also doing damage to them.

KoooZ

Elidas wrote: »

LilMcGinley wrote: »

Retreating maneuver. You're welcome.

If the only choice you have against this is to escape burning all your stamina the game is going to be pretty boring.

That's the counter to all CC of all kinds in the game.

Xsorus

Talons is one of those abilities that is really amazing if you're fighting lots of people, but complete *** if you're fighting 1 person with any brains.

Tintinabula

so so so many ppl dont roll..that stamina bar is there for a reason..not just running fast from point A to B. I'm a DK..I get hit with talons as much as I dish it out..however I roll away and live to range the dk.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Starshadw wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

The damage is the worst part. Sure let them spam it as long as they nerf the unstoppable dmg.

This is actually a good point, and I recall having to bring it up with another MMO in the past:

A skill should either cc OR do damage, not both. Ever. No single skill should make it impossible for someone to do anything while also doing damage to them.

For the sake of diversity i disagree with you altrough it makes the balancing harder. The less complex the system, the easier to balance, 2 good examples of very simple (but boring) sistems: rock-paper-scissors, coin flip.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Tintinabula wrote: »

so so so many ppl dont roll..that stamina bar is there for a reason..not just running fast from point A to B. I'm a DK..I get hit with talons as much as I dish it out..however I roll away and live to range the dk.

Lol, i tought the game crashes when 2 DKs meet

Seriously though, best way to learn a class weaknesses is to play that class. Good example of a DK knowing how to avoid the DK weapons right there.

lao

Draconiuos wrote: »

koregen wrote: »

root either needs a 4 second immunity timer after dodging out or heavy armor active should give u immunity.

Talons is considered a soft CC and therefore you don't get as long an immunity as you do against hard CCs, but you do get one. The thing is it is only a few seconds and therefore you do not notice it.

there is no immunity on soft CCs......

lao

Ashigaru wrote: »

Why is it in every pvp game cc always gets abused. The might as well take it all out besides a slow. At least then you could move around and your not a sitting duck.

thats because no game since DAoC had a good CC system.

koregen

Thanks for the feedback guys, some good posts. I remind everyone this thread is specifically discussing team fights with 2+ dk's and NOT 1v1 fights.

I fully agree there is no reason talons should be such a strong CC and have damage on top of that + synergy for more damage. Either it's a cc spell or it's an aoe damage spell. It's combining the 2 that makes abilities overpowered. As a bonus it does fire damage pretty much 1 shotting vamps and has no immunity timer so you can dodge roll your little heart out but at the end of the day you will still be rooted.

Let's compare talons to ummm let's say a nightblade aoe cc. The only aoe cc I see is Aspect of Terror. Induces fear in 2 nearby enemies for 4 seconds. It is vulnerable to cc break/immunity, it does no damage, it can only hit 2 targets, it has no synergy. It's a complete joke, when compared side by side to dark talons. Yet when it comes to aoe cc this is as good as it gets for the nightblade.

Sociabear

/sigh...ever heard of using the negate bubble over the group of dk's?

Every skill in this game has a counter..lrn2play.

NordJitsu

@Sociabear‌

Negate Magic is receiving a huge nerf to the point of making it useless. It will only affect 6 targets after 1.1.

koregen

Majority of spells do have a counter, it's called cc break and natural immunity timners. Negate bubble would work that is true, but you shouldn't have to rely on a sorcerer ability, an ultimate in fact to be able to deal with talons a non-ultimate ability.

lao

Sociabear wrote: »

/sigh...ever heard of using the negate bubble over the group of dk's?

Every skill in this game has a counter..lrn2play.

yeah uhm.... lets pretend an ulti that costs 250 ultimate and is only available to 1/4 of the classes is a viable counter to a skill that can be spammed for like forever by a properly geared DK.

do you ppl ever think before writing that crap jesus....

lao

koregen wrote: »

Majority of spells do have a counter, it's called cc break and natural immunity timners. Negate bubble would work that is true, but you shouldn't have to rely on a sorcerer ability, an ultimate in fact to be able to deal with talons a non-ultimate ability.

there is no valid counter to talons. retreating maneuver costs too much stamina + u cant attack or it will instantly fade. dodge roll doesnt work cos theres no immunity to it. immovable doesnt work vs roots. purge sort of works but since theres no immunity it will be whoever runs out of stats first and by default the DK will win then cos he did dmg to you while u did nothing. also lets not forget purge only cleanses 2 effects at a time.

the only thing u can do about it is not get close enough to the Dk so he cant actually talon you. if the DK has half a functioning braincell he will have a gap closer on his qbar. in that case gl to you. if ur not a sorc (the other broken class) and can dodge roll + bolt escape out of it ur done if the DK is not a zombie.

themizario

Frenzypanda wrote: »

Funny how ppl are calling for nerfs for everything they cant win. Soon dragonknights will be left with auto attacks only.

I get talons by other dragonknights, so? Either you learn to manage your resources well and dodge away or you think of a way to escape. You burned all your stamina away, die and qq on forums for nerfs.

If 5 people jump you, you die immaterial you get taloned or not. If you managed to get away, that 5 will whine on forums saying you op.

Never ending.

Ps: oh yea in this game stamina pots and stamina recovery food exists in case you didn't know.

Cheers
Panda

Cheers indeed!

I couldn't agree more with you. I feel like people get killed a few times with a certain ability and they start demanding it get nerfed, or if they can't kill someone because of a certain ability they start yelling exploit. The skills are there to use, there are skills to counter them. If you're build doesn't meet the demands of the PvP community change it. If you feel you shouldn't have to change your build because of what Matt Frior said then you're a fool.

Peace out, steak sauce.

Tintinabula

One thing they DO need to fix with DK is the dragon knight standard rocks that appear..thrown down on steps on a keep wall those rocks can actually be a blockade to ppl trying to get up the stairs. They need to be phantom.

Raeder

There is currently a group of 20 EP that have exploited into the AD Farengal(sp?) Keep interior on Wabbajack (they can use the interior doors even though it is our keep). There are about 8 Dragonknights with them. You cannot escape the Dark Talon spam, and I'm done with PvP until it is fixed. IT. ISN'T. FUN.

Grim13

Tintinabula wrote: »

so so so many ppl dont roll..that stamina bar is there for a reason..not just running fast from point A to B. I'm a DK..I get hit with talons as much as I dish it out..however I roll away and live to range the dk.

I'd agree with you if dodge-rolling even worked half the time I try to... lol

KoooZ

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Sociabear‌

Negate Magic is receiving a huge nerf to the point of making it useless. It will only affect 6 targets after 1.1.

Isn't that the same as all AoEs in the game except the ones that hit fewer?

Raeder

themizario wrote: »

Frenzypanda wrote: »

Funny how ppl are calling for nerfs for everything they cant win. Soon dragonknights will be left with auto attacks only.

I get talons by other dragonknights, so? Either you learn to manage your resources well and dodge away or you think of a way to escape. You burned all your stamina away, die and qq on forums for nerfs.

If 5 people jump you, you die immaterial you get taloned or not. If you managed to get away, that 5 will whine on forums saying you op.

Never ending.

Ps: oh yea in this game stamina pots and stamina recovery food exists in case you didn't know.

Cheers
Panda

Cheers indeed!

I couldn't agree more with you. I feel like people get killed a few times with a certain ability and they start demanding it get nerfed, or if they can't kill someone because of a certain ability they start yelling exploit. The skills are there to use, there are skills to counter them. If you're build doesn't meet the demands of the PvP community change it. If you feel you shouldn't have to change your build because of what Matt Frior said then you're a fool.

Peace out, steak sauce.

Both of you realize that if an enemy group has more than one DK with them that that group can keep an enemy group rooted forever right? Dark Talons does not trigger the CC immunity like a stun does. It needs to be addressed.

Mendoze

I think rapid maneuver morph releases you ( and close allies ) from all roots/slow effects and gives you immunity.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

Sociabear wrote: »

/sigh...ever heard of using the negate bubble over the group of dk's?

Every skill in this game has a counter..lrn2play.

Yes, it used to be a counter but with the 6 player cap affecting random people its preaty useless. Also the dk can simply roll out of it (as you can from banner). All good...but only problem is it costs ultimate and it can only be used every once in a while while talons can be spammed.

You can possibly think an ultimate skill is counter for a spammable low cost skill.

Varicite

I wonder why they gave everyone access to a cheap AoE dispel via Efficient Purge in the Alliance War - Support skill line, or you could morph it into Cleanse to give a pretty beefy heal whenever you dispel anything from yourself.

Hmm. Must just be for decoration.

Darn those DKs.

AltusVenifus

VR10 NB, I'm not a DK, so I feel for you guys with all the nerf talk. However, you need a nerf. One class has like 6 of the best skills in the game, and they work together so well compaired to the other classes. I use sheild bash all the time... but it shouldn't hit for 500 a bash.

Standard should be compairable to Veil of blades. Your offensive, mine defensive, they should cancle each other out. Not even close right now.

Dark Talons. Get rid of it. Or create a compairable skill for one of the other classes that causes a disorient that needs magica to break out of it with the same overpower mechs (synergy, spammable, non targeting, root, 8meter range ect)

Green dragon blood: Change to a HOT. Make it heal for same amount, just over 8 secs like every other crap heal in the game besides temps)

Reflect Magic: Make it so every spell or stamina ability hitting it drains the same amount of resources like you cast the spell while healing u for 25% of the damge reflected

AOE: Change nothing, u guys have good AOEs

DOTs: Change nothing

Armor Spells (all classes): Make them reflect the armor u currently wear. So if u have a light armor DK with 900 armor, make it so he adds 300. If you have a heavy armor type, with 2100 he now gets 2800...

scy22b14_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

I wonder why they gave everyone access to a cheap AoE dispel via Efficient Purge in the Alliance War - Support skill line, or you could morph it into Cleanse to give a pretty beefy heal whenever you dispel anything from yourself.

Hmm. Must just be for decoration.

Darn those DKs.

Did you take the time to compare the skills?

First of all, Purge is more expensive to cast than dark talons. If you morph it to lower the mana, they're almost identical mana wise. Now, you're talking about someone rooting you AND doing damage, while you backpedal spamming a defensive ability, and doing zero damage.

So now you're forced into the decision of taking the heal, which means you'll run out of mana twice as fast, or taking the lowered cost, which won't effect the outcome of the fight, just prolong it.