NIghtblade subpar, trash, disappointing, mediocre compared to godly DK/sorc

ahspear37

I am basically the opposite as most of you here I guess. My Bloodmage NB hasn't been running in to any bugs that I've seen so far(besides one that I'll get to shortly). In fact he's been pretty awesome to play.

On the other hand, I rolled a DK to see what all the fuss is about, and I ran into a lot of bugs with him. His Talons have about a 50/50 chance of not casting and just taking my magicka, his DoT for the draconic armor skill doesn't apply most of the time (I know it's a small amount of damage, but you can literally see it not taking any damage away at all), and my Ultimate has a 60/40 failure rate of actually casting. I was pretty sad about it.

My only complaint on my NB is that the Soul Siphon ultimate sometimes fails to cast. Other than that he's been a breeze to play. The Bloodmage build is a ton of fun.

I'm not saying our circumstances aren't different, and I am not here to discredit your opinions. I'm just saying that, with my personal experience, I've actually been having a much easier time with my Bloodmage than with my DK, who I've basically put on standby for now.

limeli8

This is for all the ones that think NB is weak NB solo t2 VR dungeon (vr10 stuff that no other class can solo dk or sorc or templar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4
I am aware that a lot of nb skills don't work right (i've leveled NB to vr+) but i also think that NB class is a lot more complicated to learn than some others. Potentially it has the ability to be the strongest 1 on 1 class as well as a very good healer for groups. I chose to play a sorc due to knowing that in mass pvp in any game ranged attackers do best and i didn't want to use a bow otherwise i would've played an NB. Lol just earlier today got hit for 2k by some NB from stealth while i was looking at skills in cyro (yeah... don't ever relax in cyro).

stevenyaub16_ESO

they should make the melee attacks scale with weapon damage instead of spell damage, that would solve alot of the problems.

NordJitsu

The Nightblade skills are fixed in 1.1, which is live on the PTS.

I've tested it. I built a nasty Nightblade.

The problem with this class is simply that so many things are bugged and not working right. Nothing really needs to be buffed or changed dramatically for them to be viable. Just get things working like they're supposed to and you'll notice a marked power increase.

They've already done that...sooooo...yay?

The only changes I'd like to see is an increase on the target cap for Fear (2 targets is absurdly, laughably, and horribly low) and perhaps the addition of some synergies to various skills, making Nightblades better members of groups.

Oh also....Path Of Dakness. Needs a big rework or just replace it with something useful.

TheGrimaceOR

limeli8 wrote: »

This is for all the ones that think NB is weak NB solo t2 VR dungeon (vr10 stuff that no other class can solo dk or sorc or templar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4
I am aware that a lot of nb skills don't work right (i've leveled NB to vr+) but i also think that NB class is a lot more complicated to learn than some others. Potentially it has the ability to be the strongest 1 on 1 class as well as a very good healer for groups. I chose to play a sorc due to knowing that in mass pvp in any game ranged attackers do best and i didn't want to use a bow otherwise i would've played an NB. Lol just earlier today got hit for 2k by some NB from stealth while i was looking at skills in cyro (yeah... don't ever relax in cyro).

LOL... yeah NB are totally awesome and powerful.... as long as they spam invis and never get hit

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

limeli8 wrote: »

This is for all the ones that think NB is weak NB solo t2 VR dungeon (vr10 stuff that no other class can solo dk or sorc or templar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4

I think thats cool and all but that would never work in pvp.... ever and rather then just straight out beating the bosses like dks can this video shows exploits.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

You gota get out of the mold that NB is an assassin if you want to make it trought vet. Not enough AOE? Then build around them.

http://esobuild.com/?MwbgbCCskgdMBGW8BGIAsAzAXGWBjJAQyJQAZhsAmM2ElIgU20jqP1gA4qcrYEwYFFWxJM+DOhQJO6DsEj4m0WOnQBOKmvmRG6zpCpAA

Im soloing most of my boss with this (including fire ones) and doing veteran content. I think NB is able enough in pve If you know how to do good combination.

also rofl at the video you just made all sorc and dk look like fools :P

davidetombab16_ESO

limeli8 wrote: »

This is for all the ones that think NB is weak NB solo t2 VR dungeon (vr10 stuff that no other class can solo dk or sorc or templar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4
I am aware that a lot of nb skills don't work right (i've leveled NB to vr+) but i also think that NB class is a lot more complicated to learn than some others. Potentially it has the ability to be the strongest 1 on 1 class as well as a very good healer for groups. I chose to play a sorc due to knowing that in mass pvp in any game ranged attackers do best and i didn't want to use a bow otherwise i would've played an NB. Lol just earlier today got hit for 2k by some NB from stealth while i was looking at skills in cyro (yeah... don't ever relax in cyro).

nothing strange i know this tactics but this is an exploit.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

I don't use that tactics by default but I don't see how its an exploit if technicaly the game allow the NB to recover more mana by heavy attacking with a resto staff then the cost of the spell... in a way what hes doing is 100% legit hes not abusing a bug or anything that id know about. The same way I solo my boss by constantly shielding the damage hes just spamming cloak between hits. I must admit he look quite effective. IF zenimax want this to be impossible they need to either weaken resto staff mana recover (bad idea) weaken NB mana regain (also a bad idea) or increase the cost of the stealthing move (make it useless?) Other alternative would be to place a cooldown between entering stealth and getting out like in guild wars 2 so to prevent perma stealthing.

this is nothing like vamp stacking reduction wich resulted from the non existence of ult cost reduction stacking with item worn due to total cost behing reduced by 100% total

Marovec

While I am not going to say that they are or are not as good as DKs or Sorc, I play a NB caster with destro staff and I love it. Never had any difficulty in PvE content and I have 3-manned every normal dungeon with 2 friends I game with.

Yes, they have a lot of broken abilities. Sure, there may be classes that are more powerful, but trash they are not...

If I can solo zone bosses, I don't consider the class trash...just needs some fixing.

twistedmonk

Drachenfier wrote: »

Anzer wrote: »

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRYfQPAloeE

reroll dk

Holy poop, that was a veteran dungeon solo...whelp guys, time for me to roll a DK! Sorry, NB, I love you, but I don't see you getting fixed at all in the next couple months. Maybe I'll check back with you after 1.2 hits.
Good luck, NB, try to stay alive until you get fixed!

You can do the same thing with volcanic rune, pulsar and veil of blades on a NB if you want.

I am pretty sure NB can't face tank. the DK can face tank because of all the passives + green dragon blood for the instant heals.

twistedmonk

Crescent wrote: »

It's not all sorcs. Medium armor melee sorcs are just as bad against packs of mobs if you're not the light armor sorc with destro staff impulse spam.

They either need to nerf the AoE from DK's and Impulse, or they need to bring other AoE's like Dark Path and Lightning Flood up to par in addition to Whirlwind and Cleave and Ember Explosion and Volley.

I don't want any nerfs.

But I want more options for AoE other than Destro staff + Impulse. You said it perfectly, the other AoE skills need buffed to be in line with Impulse and DK class AoE's.

TheBull

FFS buff siphon.. Those dots cannot kill anyone, seriously. Passive regain will run you out of magica before someone dies.

Buff physical weapons

IceDread

NordJitsu wrote: »

The Nightblade skills are fixed in 1.1, which is live on the PTS.

I've tested it. I built a nasty Nightblade.

The problem with this class is simply that so many things are bugged and not working right. Nothing really needs to be buffed or changed dramatically for them to be viable. Just get things working like they're supposed to and you'll notice a marked power increase.

They've already done that...sooooo...yay?

The only changes I'd like to see is an increase on the target cap for Fear (2 targets is absurdly, laughably, and horribly low) and perhaps the addition of some synergies to various skills, making Nightblades better members of groups.

Oh also....Path Of Dakness. Needs a big rework or just replace it with something useful.

Really? If so that is good news. Have you confirmed everything?

On another note, the aoe of NB is ***, no news there, but compared to the other classes, single target dps could be a bit better from what I've seen, tested and read, you disagree?

khele23eb17_ESO

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

You gota get out of the mold that NB is an assassin if you want to make it trought vet.

Why the hell would I have to?? Why am I forced to run around with a staff on a nightBLADE. I dont mind there being an option to do that but personally, I didnt pick this class to play a caster.

Xsorus

A. People who are building NB's with full medium and duel wield, This works great if you're fighting 1 mob or player in PvP..Just like every other class that does this (DK for example) However this is not super amazing in groups besides being decent ranged single target nuker. This is not limited to NB's... That's just how that setup is.

B. If you want to be good in groups, or kills lots of mobs....Light Armor with Destruction Staff, this works on pretty much every single class, including NB's.

Quit building your class as a solo ganker, then wondering why you can't do anything but solo gank.

Sheneria

Ah so your advice is build a caster with a staff if you want to be a nb? why not just make a sorc or dk and be much more usefull while at it?

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

because sorc and dk don't deal damage when they heal with their healing spells?

NordJitsu

@IceDread‌

I didn't go through and test every single ability, no. But I did try quite a few different specs and everything seemed to be working.

Also, NB AoE doesn't have to suck.

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcsz9MMV0sEV08w2BR8IrtP8w2Ct8GFla8IPUI8IPww8IPbk8IPQk8GFts8innG8IPUI8DohZ8L7JcdoQr6MdoQC6MdoQF6MdoQJ6MdoQK8p7JMdBvT6MdBvj6MdBEI6MdBEp6cdBET8t7GLsgY6rsg18g7rrsXx8C7DLzqa6rzqq6rzqb6MGFWc6MGFWi6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7DLzdm6LzdR6MIsaM6MIrv36MIrEf6MIrEh8F7DLzrJ6rzrO6rbuy6rbut6MIPNU6MIPAh6MIPAT6MIPAv8zz7pctyrG6ztyfm6ctyfV6ctyfR8zf7ozNbo6rNbk8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

That dual wield bar is used to Tele in and snare everyone, then you pop Ember explosion for damage and blind, spam Whirling Blades, and use your invisibility to get out. Once you're out, you swap to your bow for the ultimate kiting regen bar.

You don't need Leeching Strikes on both bars btw, as long as you remember to re-toggle for your bow. You can use Manifestation of Terror or Mirage there instead, if you'd prefer.

Sheneria

no a dk in 5 light 2 heavy armor and destro staff can just root everything in sight and heal himself while dealing massive aoe dmg with impulse spam and banner making nearly every public dungeon a joke.

Mind you i speak about Veteran content(and yes my friend that i leveled with to r10 used such a build) and not sub 30 levels where every build is good..

IceDread

NordJitsu wrote: »

@IceDread‌

I didn't go through and test every single ability, no. But I did try quite a few different specs and everything seemed to be working.

Also, NB AoE doesn't have to suck.

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#mcsz9MMV0sEV08w2BR8IrtP8w2Ct8GFla8IPUI8IPww8IPbk8IPQk8GFts8innG8IPUI8DohZ8L7JcdoQr6MdoQC6MdoQF6MdoQJ6MdoQK8p7JMdBvT6MdBvj6MdBEI6MdBEp6cdBET8t7GLsgY6rsg18g7rrsXx8C7DLzqa6rzqq6rzqb6MGFWc6MGFWi6MGFWA6MGFWn8D7DLzdm6LzdR6MIsaM6MIrv36MIrEf6MIrEh8F7DLzrJ6rzrO6rbuy6rbut6MIPNU6MIPAh6MIPAT6MIPAv8zz7pctyrG6ztyfm6ctyfV6ctyfR8zf7ozNbo6rNbk8zu7zzHfYE6zHfZd8zG7zzHQ3F8zI7zzJIoX6zJIkL8zN7zzJZcY8zA7zzKpUN8zL7zzK4EX

That dual wield bar is used to Tele in and snare everyone, then you pop Ember explosion for damage and blind, spam Whirling Blades, and use your invisibility to get out. Once you're out, you swap to your bow for the ultimate kiting regen bar.

You don't need Leeching Strikes on both bars btw, as long as you remember to re-toggle for your bow. You can use Manifestation of Terror or Mirage there instead, if you'd prefer.

Thanks for reply :-)

From my point of view, lotus fan does fairly low amount of damage, so does whirling blades.

Swallow soul I'm thinking about switching out, it does not heal that much at all, how many hp pts does it give for you?

I think you for aoe also should switch in fire rune from the mages guild.

I've lvl'd bow some which you suggest I should use and perhaps it would work but, I'm planing to use bow in pvp and been working on a few different builds for pve, dual wield and actually restro staff, combat prayer for instance has this far been really handy.

khele23eb17_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

A. People who are building NB's with full medium and duel wield, This works great if you're fighting 1 mob or player in PvP..Just like every other class that does this (DK for example) However this is not super amazing in groups besides being decent ranged single target nuker. This is not limited to NB's... That's just how that setup is.

B. If you want to be good in groups, or kills lots of mobs....Light Armor with Destruction Staff, this works on pretty much every single class, including NB's.

Quit building your class as a solo ganker, then wondering why you can't do anything but solo gank.

Thats just plain absurd. If I want to PvE past lev 50 I have to be a caster? How would you even justify that? Its an LAS game - the whole point of an LAS sytem is to have a wide variety of different, effective builds. You should be able to make an NB melee character as effective in PvE as a caster - whether its a stamina based NB or magicka based.

Ker.Rakb16_ESO

All class skills use magicka, so every class is a caster class. DWI.

khele23eb17_ESO

CBA arguing semantics. DWI.

GwaynLoki

Might not be easy, but you can definitely go melee-only in VR content. Whether it's competitive with other classes *shrugs*

Crescent

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Might not be easy, but you can definitely go melee-only in VR content. Whether it's competitive with other classes *shrugs*

Melee only happens to work for templar ad DK only, as they're the only classes with good aoe class skills that don't need destro staff.

If you try to melee only as any other class, good luck using whirlwind/ember explosion/cleave to kill groups of mobs. Those skills don't even do half the damage Impulse or DK AoE does, or Templar aedric spear.

Xsorus

Sheneria wrote: »

Ah so your advice is build a caster with a staff if you want to be a nb? why not just make a sorc or dk and be much more usefull while at it?

My advice is, If you're building Duel wield with Medium armor, no matter what class you pick..you're not going to be amazing compared to any light armor class with impulse taking down groups of mobs.

You seem to think that a DK can just throw on Medium Armor, and run into a group of mobs with Duel Wield, and AOE it down and whirl wind it..Trust me..It doesn't work any better on a DK then it does a NB.

You either kill those mobs fast with Impulse and light armor, or you single target them down with Bash and Block...it doesn't matter which class you choose, that's how its going to work.

Moonchilde

Another thread from another person who wants a 'win' button to end game. You do realize that in PvP, NBs rule supreme. There has to be a balance.

That's to say nothing of the fact that a stealth based character is not a battlefield juggernaut in any fantasy lore. The copious L2P response are no accident, and they are not there to just 'nag' you. If you can't play like a NB as they are suggesting, then you just don't think like one, and are playing the wrong class.

khele23eb17_ESO

Moonchilde wrote: »

That's to say nothing of the fact that a stealth based character is not a battlefield juggernaut in any fantasy lore. The copious L2P response are no accident, and they are not there to just 'nag' you. If you can't play like a NB as they are suggesting, then you just don't think like one, and are playing the wrong class.

What kind of logic is this? A stealth based character is not a battlefield juggernaut in any fantasy lore therefore it must be subpar to any other class vs multiple mobs? I agree that in the generic high fantasy lore the warrior juggeraut wades into battle and mows down enemies with his huge weapon while their attacks barely scratch him due to his massive armor... but the stealth character does just as much damage by rushing through shadows, popping in and out of stealth, shadowstepping from one target to another for quick devastating attacks to vital organs while eluding damage thanks to mobility, shadowy illusions and crippling his enemies.Thats more or less the kind of playstyle I was expecting to be possible and effective with the NB.

Moonchilde

Ok, so.. we have the same view of things on the class strategy perspective. This is possible, it happens, and its effective, once you unlock the abilities to do it, and wear decent gear. The pain levels end around 24-26 - by then you should have a complete build and enough ranks to do this. You want your ranks in your class skills to be much higher than your level, or things are going to be tougher. The more you switch out abilities in your first core build in the early levels, the longer this weak period is going to last because your spread too thin.

Even at 50, you will certainly have trouble trying to tank bosses like a tank, but then again, a tank will always have trouble trying to kill as fast as you - there are intended differences in each class.