[Snipe] Bow Skill seems a little pointless

Lucani

I apologise if there's a similar post open about this.

I've been gunning for that level 38 mark using Bows to finally unlock the snipe skill. The idea of it just sounded awesome, and would've fit nicely into my bar as an opening attack. After messing around with it it seems utterly pointless in PvE especially in a dungeon (Could see it working if you were happy to stand on a wall during an attack on Cyrodiil due to the sheer range of the attack). You could be channeling the attack when someone pulls, and if the targeted mob wanders into what seems like 'normal' bow range the attack is cancelled.

It is satisfying when the attack does hit but this rarely kills the mob (currently level 33 - please correct me if I'm wrong for later levels), but once you get one shot off - sometimes two if you're stood wayyyyy back - the attack is rendered useless for the fight. In dungeons the often curvy, winding tunnels make it difficult to stand far back enough to get the shot off or if someone pulls during the cast-time the enemy will often run behind a rock or something!

I would personally suggest keeping the cast time, reducing the minimum range, and upping the damage caused (or add an additional effect) to make it a viable skill to use during combat and not just as an opening skill. If none of the above at least make the animation a fast moving straight-shot (or slightly arced) to make it feel more like a snipe rather than the arrow disappearing up into a cave roof to then fall on the enemies head a few seconds later.

This is just my opinion and experience (possibly lack there-of) so please correct me if you've had a more pleasant experience of the skill, or find it a justified or viable slot for PvE/PvP.

Rasha

My experience with Snipe (in PvE here) is that I find it's good for an opening attack. In fact, my second hotbar is set up specifically for this. Mark of Death first, second (if daedra, undead or werewolf) the huntsman skill from Fighters Guild (name eludes me atm, but the one that is morphed to cause more damage when stealthed.) Finally, stealth and then hit snipe. Usually, I can take a good bit of health and then switch back to my other hotbar.

I have, recently though, been finding that, sometimes, my regular crouched, stealth sneak attack can do almost more damage than Snipe. So, I do agree that Snipe needs to be modified in someway; I'm just not sure what they way should be at this point

Lucani

@Rasha‌

Ahh I see, so you've got a bar dedicated to opening the fight. That sounds like a plan. Thank you for the insight, I've even tried sitting far back in dungeons and repeating Snipe, but it seems Poison Arrow would probably deal greater damage during the time spent casting and possibly for less stamina (And obviously more versatile at close range).

To me it just seems like other skills would do a better job for less hassle!

MoMoOG

Snipe is a poor choice even as an opener. You are better off opening from sneak using heavy attack animation cancelled into poison arrow/silver bolt. Doing this will cause both the heavy attack and the poison arrow/silver bolt to sneak attack crit doing combined damage about the same damage of snipe if not more. The only use of snipe in this game is currently in pvp during sieging situations.

Singular

Yeah, I try and try to use snipe in pve but find it's not worth the slot. At best, you get one off, then they run toward you. Better off sneak shotting, then poison, as the poster said above.

I haven't tried it in pvp but can't believe it will be that useful - the animation is soooooooooooooooooooooo long and everyone's always running around in pvp trying to avoid being targeted.

Lucani

Thank you all for the feedback I'll give this a try, sounds interesting! The cast time, animation and overall skill description of Snipe just seems to be a little counter-productive in terms of current combat mechanics (And I guess the mechanics aren't going to change!), I think they should look into modifying the skill as it's quite a shame - Snipe sounded so cool!

In terms of it's PvP use, I only really saw it's potential (Haven't tried just yet) during a siege on the defending side of the wall as @MoMoOG mentioned, trying to take down Ram operators or healers - to said operators - as the range is fantastic, just seems to be the only thing going for it!

Gaudrath

MoMoOG wrote: »

Snipe is a poor choice even as an opener. You are better off opening from sneak using heavy attack animation cancelled into poison arrow/silver bolt. Doing this will cause both the heavy attack and the poison arrow/silver bolt to sneak attack crit doing combined damage about the same damage of snipe if not more. The only use of snipe in this game is currently in pvp during sieging situations.

This is still unconfirmed and players who actually tested it with numbers report that it is outright false - only the first hit that lands is a critical hit.

As for snipe, as others said it has more uses as a PvP skill - the longest range skill in the game, really useful during sieges.
I use it extensively in PvE as well, for example as means to kill a healer NPC outright. It works best against soft targets, so if you have groups of mobs, just pick the squishy, you want to kill them quickly anyway. If you stay at distance and pick up the long shots perk, a double snipe, first one from sneak, ordinarily kills them. Then you finish the rest off the usual way.

Censorious

I levelled bow just for this one skill, specifically to use in PvP against opponents on keep walls (or beneath them).

It was an utter waste of time. Enemies move out of LoS long before the animation completes and if it does go off, the damage is minimal and the target immediately hides.

To be any use at all the damage needs to be upped by a factor oj ten at least - it should be a two shot kill on anything/anyone.

Godspeed

Censorious wrote: »

I levelled bow just for this one skill, specifically to use in PvP against opponents on keep walls (or beneath them).

It was an utter waste of time. Enemies move out of LoS long before the animation completes and if it does go off, the damage is minimal and the target immediately hides.

To be any use at all the damage needs to be upped by a factor oj ten at least - it should be a two shot kill on anything/anyone.

Lol umm no.

Censorious

Godspeed wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

I levelled bow just for this one skill, specifically to use in PvP against opponents on keep walls (or beneath them).

It was an utter waste of time. Enemies move out of LoS long before the animation completes and if it does go off, the damage is minimal and the target immediately hides.

To be any use at all the damage needs to be upped by a factor oj ten at least - it should be a two shot kill on anything/anyone.

Lol umm no.

Yes, I know - but that's a knee jerk reaction.
As it is, the shot hits for a few percent, I doubt anyone eve notices they've been shot.

Perhaps two shots is a bit severe for PvP - but it should be enough that you really feel it, having exposed yourself for several seconds in the middle of a siege.
It's supposed to be a sniper-shot. In a real situation that's usually fatal. That's kinda the point of snipers.

Gaudrath

It is more useful when shooting from walls. Go into sneak and target siege engine players or others who think it is a good idea to hang around too close.

When targeting walls, I prefer some sort of AoE... you won't be killing most people when they're on the walls anyway, but nobody likes to be hit, so that keeps them away from shooting siege/oil or taking potshots.

SirKabel

I agree with the initial post. I can deal with having to be in that sweet spot for all of my skills (8 meters) granted focused aim will up that to 13 meters. The problem is though, in a fight 3 seconds is an eternity. The mobs run out of that sweet spot so easily. I think to fix this skill they can do a few things:

1) change Snipe cast time to 1.5s
2) change a morph to shorten cast time (both morphs to me seem like PVP focused)
3) make the skill go off if the target was in range for at least 50% of the cast (i don't know if this one is possible)
4) Change or remove that minimum distance. (15-40 meters)

I would very much like to have this as a staple on my weapon set bar because it is a straight ranged cast/damage skill that cost stamina.

ArRashid

I'd change Snipe to deal HEAVY damage (not that pathetic number you can get with usual stealth heavy attack) and build it's morphs similar to Crystal Shards ones - one for instant "proc" cast (preferably the "proc" cast should ignore minimum range too) and one for AoE.

I'd also change Poison Arrow to deal bigger instant damage and smaller DoT ticking every 0.5 sec for 2 sec for minor damage after that. So it actually has a chance of dealing damage, unlike now that it deals no visible damage on VR mobs (kind of like light attack) - as instant part hardly deals more dmg than light attack and the DoT gets overwritten instead of adding up.

Bow direly needs damage, because it seems it's the SLOWEST weapon to use of them all - pulling the string takes helluva longer than it should, and if you release it even 0.00001 sec sooner than you should (that your arms stopped moving DOESN'T mean it's complete) it deals reduced damage (aka FTC says "partial charge" instead of "heavy")

Xau

Yeah, Snipe is very situational but worry not! Come vet ranks you will abandon bow completely in pve.

MoMoOG

Gaudrath wrote: »

This is still unconfirmed and players who actually tested it with numbers report that it is outright false - only the first hit that lands is a critical hit.

This has been confirmed since forever. You can actually do it on any weapon but its easiest to do on bow. Use an addon that actually shows overhead numbers and you will clearly see that both get the sneak crit every time.

Arreyanne

MoMoOG wrote: »

Snipe is a poor choice even as an opener. You are better off opening from sneak using heavy attack animation cancelled into poison arrow/silver bolt. Doing this will cause both the heavy attack and the poison arrow/silver bolt to sneak attack crit doing combined damage about the same damage of snipe if not more. The only use of snipe in this game is currently in pvp during sieging situations.

And use that animation cancel exploit to be all you can be

Rhythmic

MoMoOG wrote: »

Snipe is a poor choice even as an opener. You are better off opening from sneak using heavy attack animation cancelled into poison arrow/silver bolt. Doing this will cause both the heavy attack and the poison arrow/silver bolt to sneak attack crit doing combined damage about the same damage of snipe if not more. The only use of snipe in this game is currently in pvp during sieging situations.

THIS^

Reavan

Snipe is fun to two shot lowbies in pvp when they have no idea where you are

Gaudrath

MoMoOG wrote: »

Gaudrath wrote: »

This is still unconfirmed and players who actually tested it with numbers report that it is outright false - only the first hit that lands is a critical hit.

This has been confirmed since forever. You can actually do it on any weapon but its easiest to do on bow. Use an addon that actually shows overhead numbers and you will clearly see that both get the sneak crit every time.

If so it is a bug and it is never smart to create a playstyle around bugs. They get fixed, you lose your toys and have to learn the ropes all over again.

Reticent_Prophet

This is a let down. I've been looking forward to the snipe skill and am just a level or two away from it. Hopefully they adjust it because the other bow skills aren't that great compared to the destructive staff alternative. Poison arrow is good. Scattershot is ok, arrow spray doesn't slow them enough imo. I think itd be nice if they swapped one of these out or added a quick shot skill that would fire like 3 arrows in rapid succession.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I really like it when im attacking a fort because once they get hit by it I can start using all my other ranged abilities on them. Sometimes I can kill people who think they are safe, they just stand there and take it because they dont think they will get pummeled that bad. Its also pretty good to get your fellow zerglings to shoot at the same target you lit up. Its situational, but if you put yourself in situations where it works well its worth taking up a bar slot. Its complete trash in pve though dont even bother with it.

Rasha

In the end, I've actually abandoned my second bow in favor of leveling up dual daggers

Liquid_Time

I actually enjoy Snipe a lot. My bow bar is strictly for an opener "Snipe" and distant group support "Poison Arrow". I use it a lot for picking off players that are left behind when a group is on the move. Mark Target -> Snipe -> Push forward with Poison Arrow or switch to DW (depending on distance) and finish them off.
Just a suggestion if you have trouble finding a use for it

Lucani

Thank you all for your constructive feedback I'm glad it's not just been me having a hard time finding a home for this skill. From some of the comments there does seem to be some possible options for use. I'm still yet to try it in PvP (Waiting 'til the 50 mark - got stomped when I thought level 14 was a good time to strike) sounds like it might be a fun skill to ambush with, though knowing my luck by the time I've cast it the enemy would be long gone..

I hope they do get round to tweaking it to make it more versatile in PvE (and PvP), it would be a shame to leave this to gather dust.

NordJitsu

Snipe is even worse in PvP.

You know that sound like an artillery shell falling?

Ya, your target can hear that too. Even if you shoot from stealth.

Makes it REALLY easy to block and therefore a terrible opener and damage dealer in general.

Liquid_Time

Well I usually use it when they are on horseback. Seems to be where I get the most use out of it. However knowing that the other player can hear then block this shot is interesting to find out. Thanks for that

dumbo

Snipe is fine in PvP for siege standoffs, otherwise I'm not sure that I'd ever use it.

Focused aim? complete waste of a skillpoint.

neocomab16_ESO

SNipe is weird. I like it and hate it alike. I like the burst potential but dislike the cast time. Should be halfed imho. Additionally, bows in general should work with attack speed buffs. I mean, come on ...

Lucani

I agree with the attack speed, has anyone stated whether this is a bug or how they intended it to work? seems unfair that all other weapons benefit apart from bows.

NordJitsu

Liquid_Time wrote: »

Well I usually use it when they are on horseback. Seems to be where I get the most use out of it. However knowing that the other player can hear then block this shot is interesting to find out. Thanks for that

@Liquid_Time‌

To your benefit, I suspect a majority of players don't know that either. Which means, for now, its still a good ability on a lot of people. Just not on me.

Aoifesan

Proper use of snipe seems to be this Bar Snipe, Shadow Cloak(morph of choice doesn't matter which but the 100% crit is better), Mark Target. Snipe is the one time you don't want to do animation canceling. Mark target, Snipe, Snipe(immediately after the first fires). You will then have two in the air at once, Shadow cloak if needed to make the second snipe also crit at 100%.