[Lore Question] So, how -exactly- does a Vampire Templar work?

Hail_Sithis

(Let me just put it out there I had no idea where to drop this question.)

From my understanding their powers come from the sun, correct? From my understanding of Elder Scroll Vampires, just being in sunlight can really screw them over, wouldn't harnessing it's power and channeling it through them basically kill them?

Theron75

Everything about a Templar Vampire is wrong.

Vampires
- embrace darkness
- Daedric
- evil

Templars
- embrace light
- Aedric
- good

I'm sure some lore-buster will be along shortly to explain how it would be possible, kind of like a "grey Jedi" who is able to balance both light and dark powers.

Hail_Sithis

I could see how it works from a deceptive point of view, sort of lying about your morality to the order or whatever. Sort of cheating your way to power and whatever.
Though I could be wrong in that respect, admittedly, as I do not know how exactly the process of being granted the power is done.

What I don't see is a Vampire harnessing the sun's power. This is the part that kinda confuses me. And as the occasional RPer, I like to respect lore at all times.

Kendaric

Theron75 wrote: »

I'm sure some lore-buster will be along shortly to explain how it would be possible, kind of like a "grey Jedi" who is able to balance both light and dark powers.

Somewhat off-topic, but that's not what a "Grey Jedi" is in Star Wars lore. They are basically Jedi who take a somewhat liberal and unorthodox approach to the Council's teachings and the Jedi code (Qui-Gonn Jinn was considered a grey Jedi for example).

Back on topic:

From a lore/RP point of view, vampires shouldn't be using templar class skills at all. Especially not those that deal with fire/sun damage.
On the other hand, a templar turned into a vampire and struggling to maintain his faith and humanity might make an interesting RP concept. It takes a lot of effort to not make it feel cheesy though...

Drew

Well, if you brought SW, i'll bring Warcraft games - there was a long discussion about how Undead priests are possible, turns out they do feel pain from "light magic" they're using, and it takes great power of will to remain sane to them.

So you can explain this like "my templar is a nice guy, who was turned into vampire [insert reason], and now he's using his dark powers to fight for light and great justice".

P.S. "The Sun" which gives templars their powers, is Aedra Magnus, God and of Magic. And you know who also use magic? Necromancers.

Criselli

While the Templar's do have a skill called "Vampire's Bane" that doesn't mean they couldn't be a vampire. Despite the popular player choices of "plz bite me" often times vampires wouldn't necessarily be picky about their prey and the Templar may just not have had a choice in the matter.

Undoubtedly, there is a more versed RP/lore buff that could think of a more logical explanation...

Harbingers

Daywalkers ;p

Hail_Sithis

Criselli wrote: »

While the Templar's do have a skill called "Vampire's Bane" that doesn't mean they couldn't be a vampire.

I appreciate the response, but that is not what I am referring to. Unless I am wrong, the templar's powers are derived from the sun, Correct?

If such is the case, would channeling these powers not cause immense harm to the vampire if he/she attempted to utilize it?

Tetujin

Hail_Sithis wrote: »

Criselli wrote: »

While the Templar's do have a skill called "Vampire's Bane" that doesn't mean they couldn't be a vampire.

I appreciate the response, but that is not what I am referring to. Unless I am wrong, the templar's powers are derived from the sun, Correct?

If such is the case, would channeling these powers not cause immense harm to the vampire if he/she attempted to utilize it?

Maybe the sunlight always faces "outward". I don't really know much about the vampire lore in this series.

Nox_Aeterna

Welcome , to where lore meets MMO balance hehe :P.

And yup , i play a templar vampire.

Hail_Sithis wrote: »

Criselli wrote: »

While the Templar's do have a skill called "Vampire's Bane" that doesn't mean they couldn't be a vampire.

I appreciate the response, but that is not what I am referring to. Unless I am wrong, the templar's powers are derived from the sun, Correct?

If such is the case, would channeling these powers not cause immense harm to the vampire if he/she attempted to utilize it?

No it would not.

ESO follow the skyrim vampire line , where the sunlight is a ... bother , not something that harms the vampire at all.

ESO and skyrim (the high vampires) , are daylight walkers.

Hail_Sithis

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

No it would not.

ESO follow the skyrim vampire line , where the sunlight is a ... bother , not something that harms the vampire at all.

ESO and skyrim (the high vampires) , are daylight walkers.

But what of Oblivion Vampires? What of Serana's constant whining in skyrim when you got out during the day? What of the drawbacks of being in the sunlight in Skyrim?

Wouldn't channeling the energy of the sun in a concentrated form, cause far more damage than simply basking in it?

If the sun were not so much of a bother to vampires, Why would Lord Harkon go through all this trite to get rid of it?

I grant you it's an entirely gameplay based issue, But I am asking a lore-based question, as it's a preference of mine to respect lore before embarking on RPing a character.

Chryos

Look at it this way, whether it was an accidental bite, or on purpose (first u want to be evil, then u have a change of heart) or in a misguided attempt to better fight vampires you can make it work. Thats what would make your background story unique. Different vampires in different fantasy universes all have minor differences and strengths or weakness (besides the standard ones) Since this is a fantasy RPG game. Your free to embellish your background story anyway you see fit.

If you are trying to break down the mechanics of why it would or wouldnt work, well you cant, because vampires...are not real.

Chryos

BTW I am a vampire nightblade, but with a good heart.. Tell me if that makes sense?

Nox_Aeterna

Hail_Sithis wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

No it would not.

ESO follow the skyrim vampire line , where the sunlight is a ... bother , not something that harms the vampire at all.

ESO and skyrim (the high vampires) , are daylight walkers.

But what of Oblivion Vampires? What of Serana's constant whining in skyrim when you got out during the day? What of the drawbacks of being in the sunlight in Skyrim?

Wouldn't channeling the energy of the sun in a concentrated form, cause far more damage than simply basking in it?

If the sun were not so much of a bother to vampires, Why would Lord Harkon go through all this trite to get rid of it?

I grant you it's an entirely gameplay based issue, But I am asking a lore-based question, as it's a preference of mine to respect lore before embarking on RPing a character.

I told you , the sun is a bother , but that is it. Serana could walk with you all day long , yeah , she did complain , but she never took damage , dont matter how long you stayed out in the sun and the same was valid for the player also, there were drawbacks , like the magicka regen , but it was not direct damage.

The point is , in ES lore , there are many different kinds of vampires , ESO and skyrim just got daylight walkers , mind you , not all skyrim vampires are daylight walkers even , you just get the gift from high vampires , which are.

Now ... i cant remember in any moment where you would channel the sun light in skyrim game , i mean , the closest to that i remember is shooting an arrow in the sun with the auriels bow , granted i could be just forgeting by now , but if it never happened before , there is no way of knowing if channeling such energy would or not hurt a daylight walker, AND even if it did hurt some of them , because in ES there so many kinds of vampires , it does not means it would hurt ALL daylight walkers.

Hail_Sithis

I will take your word for it Nox, until otherwise corrected by a third party. Thanks.

Tetujin

Maybe, like casting a fire spell as a human.

Gaudrath

There is a bigger problem with vampire templars than sun (or better said, light) magic. Templars derive their powers from being devout followers of Aedra, primarily Stendarr. Their magic is not the same as that of ordinary mages. They're more like warrior-priests than mages.

Stendarr and vampires do not go along very well - among other things, the god of vampires is Molag Bal, arguably the direct opposite of Stendarr.
I doubt that a templar would retain access to their repertoire of light magic if they turned vampire, since it is faith-based; even if Aedra do not interfere directly into the lives of mortals (such as directly denying magic or powers to them), it would be hard for a templar to retain their convictions and their faith when they're sucking blood from some hapless peasant in their spare time.

Being creatures of strong conviction, a templar would likely kill themselves before they become the antithesis of all they stand for and cause great harm to the very peoples they stood to protect.

If you want to roleplay a vampire templar, something like a tormented duality character, I think it would be lore friendly only if you refrained from using light magic at all. And act half insane.

Tetujin

Is there any proof that the Aedra exist, like with the Daedric princes who can manifest and speak? Maybe not the best place to ask this, buy since there are people here who seem to have thought of it... Is it an established thing that this light type magic is gifted from this Aedroth and not just themed or made for usefulness?

Ygge

Well.. As I understand Tamriel lore Aedra and Daedra don't really grant their followers divine powers of offence in that manner. Would not the most feasible solution be that Templars use their own magika in order to produce certain type of spells that reflect their lifestyle? Thus not interfering with Vampire-powers at all?

Spells, no matter if they are of mage or templar origin consume the same type of resource after all, i.e the characters own magika. Not the Aedras magika.

To be fair I don't think the "powers of light" or "dark powers" dichotomy really suits the Elder Scrolls universe at all, lore wise. I try to see the world as barbaric and uneducated, naive in a way, in comparison to the later games.

That being said, I'm quite uncertain myself. If someone knows the lore on the subject, do correct me.

7788b14_ESO

Templars who have been made vampires use corrupted powers which appear to be of Aedra but actually spawn from Daedra dark arts. They are as wolves in sheeps clothing, yet some have been able to overcome the darkness within and use such dark gifts in the name of good. Kinda like in the movie 'Spawn'.

Least those are my thoughts on the matter.

tplink3r1

i think Arch-Curate Vyrthur(Skyrim) uses restoration(or is that alteration?) based spells, and he is a vampire. 2:30 and 4:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPDzvAaAQE
so i think thats possible(lore-wise).

Gaudrath

Those loos like destruction spells (frost) to me, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, when it comes to Aedra granting or retracting powers, that video hints at exactly that - Auri-El turning his back on him.

It is also hinted in the game, there is a book, that Templar powers are granted by Stendarr himself. Presumably a fallen Templar would be stripped of said powers - this doesn't happen because it's a game after all, but that would be my interpretation of the lore.

tplink3r1

Gaudrath wrote: »

Those loos like destruction spells (frost) to me, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, when it comes to Aedra granting or retracting powers, that video hints at exactly that - Auri-El turning his back on him.

It is also hinted in the game, there is a book, that Templar powers are granted by Stendarr himself. Presumably a fallen Templar would be stripped of said powers - this doesn't happen because it's a game after all, but that would be my interpretation of the lore.

I mean the orange/yellow powers, not the spells he cast on his hands.

Gaudrath

Well, it is impossible to tell whether that would be light magic granted by Stendarr or ordinary restoration magic which would of course be accessible to vampires since Magnus doesn't interfere (can't interfere, actually) with the use of magicka.

As I said, it is hinted in the game that templar abilities are granted by Stendarr, god of justice and mercy. Of course, we also know that wards and other Aedric effects can be corrupted or subverted by Daedric influences, so that might extend to templar magic as well.

The only case where it would be impossible to subvert templar magic is if it stems from the strength of faith and conviction of the templar - in that case becoming a vampire would surely shatter their faith and thus strip them of their powers.

Allyah

If we're going to ask that, might as well ask how a vampire can use fire skills without bursting into ash.

jdandrews108b14_ESO

Two cents from lore...
Vamprism comes from the creation of our very own Molag Bal, as in a Daedric prince. The good Aedra are the same thing as the bad Daedra.

Stendarr is also the God of Mercy.
He doesn't care so much if you are a vampire as long as you are fighting for his cause, and using his gift is furthering his influence.

A mage, be it with arcane or Daedric magics, should be prepared to use magics. A vampire who uses fire arcane magic would be ready for a misfire and be able to use it without burning himself.
The embrace of Stendarr's gift would give the user enough knowledge to safeguard from his own attack.

I would not put it past Bethesda to have a lore book out there in game about a vampire who has tried to safeguard himself from his own fire magics and failed. Would make for a funny read if there's not.

Ygge

The Aedra and the Daedra are essentially the same, both originating from the Et'ada. There are "evil" Aedra as well as "good" Daedra. The sole difference is that the Aedra sacrificed part of themselves in order to create Nirn, thus becoming weaker in the process.

"their power was so reduced that the Aedra lost the ability to manifest themselves physically or to interact directly with their creation. This limitation is one of the prime forces behind the existence of daedra worship; since the Daedric Lords did not give up their strength to create Nirn, they retain the power to interfere with the mortal world and are thus attractive to the power-hungry among the mortals."
- Elder Scrolls wiki for reference

Stendarr or any other Aedra can't interact in a way that grants their followers power. Blessings have worked through all Elder Scrolls titles but that's about it.

All mortal magic is drawn from the rests of Magnus and other Aedra that fled Nirn after its creation. Not the group that remained weakened as Divines or other entities.

Non of this would be bothered if a physical mortal entity got affected by the powers of a Daedric Prince, like in a the situation with vampires.

I seem way to much of a lore-nerd but this "evil and holy powers"-thing kind of bothered me as I very much appreciated that the earlier titles focused on the "evil" and intentions of the man or immortal. The philosophy that power is power and is to be used as anyone obtaining it damn well pleases was something I appreciated. This corruption does not sit well with me.

Iceman_mat

Since ESO Vampires can walk during the day I would think that a Templar Vampire would see any weakness during the day as a punishment (weakening) from Aedric to fight the evil (Daedric) at night and to understand said evil (e.g to fight it better) they must burden themselves with said evil that would then help them fight it during the night in conjunction with the powers of the day.

Basically they are weakened during the day to which their Aedric powers would help keep them safe but in a weakened state but then at night they would have like a x2 over their Daedric enemies.

Think Joss Wedons Angel.

-Cheers

7788b14_ESO

Allyah wrote: »

If we're going to ask that, might as well ask how a vampire can use fire skills without bursting into ash.

Well might as well say there's no such things as vampires, werewolves, magic, etc.

All a writer has to do is write something different about them and call it lore. Such things have change over time from generation to generation. Hollywood added a lot of stuff over the years. As to this game why try to find logic in fiction?

joshralph21rwb17_ESO1

Templars being holy and priest like isnt really correct. The magic they use, is NOT holy, it is basically the purest form of magicka in the known everything...sun = gateway to atherius or whatever the afterlife is, its basically from that source templars get their power

Allyah

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

If we're going to ask that, might as well ask how a vampire can use fire skills without bursting into ash.

Well might as well say there's no such things as vampires, werewolves, magic, etc.

All a writer has to do is write something different about them and call it lore. Such things have change over time from generation to generation. Hollywood added a lot of stuff over the years. As to this game why try to find logic in fiction?

Although I agree about trying to find logic in fiction, lore(or making up stories about how something could work in a fictional world) can be fun for some. Certainly nothing wrong with people using their imagination to create stories.