The ability to change your class given the recent AMA information

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Me and a buddy at work were talking about the AMA and how it was pretty good overall. They gave us a lot of information on where they want to go with the game in the future which shows a lot of promise in my opinion. They talked about how they designed VR content so that you wouldn't feel that you had to roll an alt to get the full story. So the one thing that really strikes against some of the information they talked about is that you can't change your main class at any point without rolling an alt.

I know it's been talked about before, but I would like community feedback now that the new AMA is over and they were talking about allowing VR players to raise lower leveled content that was 1-50 to VR content so that they had a reason to go back and complete all the quests they might have skipped which would also help people not feel like they have to roll an alt to get all the story. Then there is the information that they stated they were looking at allowing players to have a "mentor like" system so that they could level with lower level friends which would also reduce the feeling of having to roll an alt.

Here are their quotes from the AMA summary that Dulfy posted on dulfy.net. THANKS DULFY!

"Mentoring system is something we are working on as part of “let players find each other more easily” initiative."

"For the Veteran Content, we thought it was much better to allow players to experience all content with oen character than force them to roll alts."

"Having all the zones scaled to VR10 when you reach VR10 is an interesting idea we are looking at right now."

"Plans to add new quests to existing zones"

I purpose that they should start looking into allowing players to respec out of their chosen class either at a shrine for a cost or by completing a quest that could be repeatable in case the player wants to change again later like Vampires and Werewolves can do already. I don't see a reason why this can't be an option because the Classes themselves are more like themes to a character with a specific animation set and not something that necessarily HAS to be tied to that character. Kind of like how Vampire and Werewolf work. You can have both and level both, but you can't have both at the same time and if you chose to be one or the other it locks out the other option. I think classes should work the same way. You can choose to level any of the 4, but choosing 1 will lock you out of the other 3 unless you go back to change it later.

That way players really could feel like they never have to roll an alt to experience everything in the game. I think that would go a long way to increasing the longevity of ESO and add more credence to their idea of wanting the game to be able to be played by 1 character if the player so desires. It would go a long way towards really making the player feel like they can choose to play exactly the way they want at any time... which the vast majority of the game already tries to promote.

What does the ESO community feel about that suggestion in light of the recent AMA?

Xnemesis

NO NO and NO this encourages FoTM! Maybe a better solution is to have to reach say level ten before you choose the class that is right for you. By level ten you will know what kind of playstyle you would like to have. Re rolling a class just isn't a good idea IMO

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Xnemesis wrote: »

NO NO and NO this encourages FoTM! Maybe a better solution is to have to reach say level ten before you choose the class that is right for you. By level ten you will know what kind of playstyle you would like to have. Re rolling a class just isn't a good idea IMO

You can level a character to 50 in less than 24 hours still. If people really wanted to be FoTM then they are already doing it by rolling an alt. Not to mention that some people feel one class is OP versus another class because they don't want to roll the other class they are talking about to actually experience what that class is like. Which is why a lot of people make claims about balance and they really shouldn't because they are basing everything off the feeling of their under powered class.

Kendaric

The problem with their decision is that it destroys the replayability for those who enjoy having alts.

As for a class respec, I think it would be interesting. Though it would be somewhat difficult and extremely expensive as you'd have to respec your non-class skill lines as well...

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Kendaric wrote: »

The problem with their decision is that it destroys the replayability for those who enjoy having alts.

As for a class respec, I think it would be interesting. Though it would be somewhat difficult and extremely expensive as you'd have to respec your non-class skill lines as well...

I can also agree that their decision for how VR content works kind of destroyed the enjoyment to roll alts because you will literally replay the exact same content over again if you ever intend to get to VR 10 questing. I have alts, but they will all be mob grinded to 50 now that I have a VR character. I don't really want to do all the quests over again.

Cost wise it wouldn't be any different than it is now because you only have access to 1 class at a time. When you respec now you get all the skill points back that you spent and you can't choose specific trees to refund. They could make it very expensive if they allowed the option to change your class, but it doesn't have to be.

Surinen

You have my approval. Bask in the glory of my nod <slowmotion> nnnnnooooooddddd! I'm pro possibility that will break walls of the current limiting system that stands against sanctity of sacred TES! I would prefer to see classes completely go away. but I can settle for less and class change, definately not the one paid with real currency but one that allows you to do it for some gold.

Xnemesis

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

NO NO and NO this encourages FoTM! Maybe a better solution is to have to reach say level ten before you choose the class that is right for you. By level ten you will know what kind of playstyle you would like to have. Re rolling a class just isn't a good idea IMO

You can level a character to 50 in less than 24 hours still. If people really wanted to be FoTM then they are already doing it by rolling an alt. Not to mention that some people feel one class is OP versus another class because they don't want to roll the other class they are talking about to actually experience what that class is like. Which is why a lot of people make claims about balance and they really shouldn't because they are basing everything off the feeling of their under powered class.

What is the point of making a choice if it can all be undone. Live with your poor life choices... on the other hand I can see this being ok as long as you do not get your skill points back for your previous class specific skills. This would enable you to flip back at a later time and still have those skills learned, but also make you think twice about switching. They aren't necessarily wasted points they are just not reuseable.

Surinen

Xnemesis wrote: »

What is the point of making a choice if it can all be undone. Live with your poor life choices... on the other hand I can see this being ok as long as you do not get your skill points back for your previous class specific skills. This would enable you to flip back at a later time and still have those skills learned, but also make you think twice about switching. They aren't necessarily wasted points they are just not reuseable.

But we have already a re-spec option in the game. Why putting heavy restriction on class change? Especially in the game that has already shackled you and confined within CLASS system. I understand that some people play for more than 15h per day and for them game characters may constitute life choices. for majority I guess it is not the case; we share gameplay choices and we- I would like to see them flexible. punishing gamers for "ohhh I wish to breathe fire" thinking in the mmo, is not exactly a good way, at least I think so.

TheBull

OP must be a DK Vamp.

That would be a terrible idea. Let all the "Find something broken" people class-hop from patch to patch..

Solomon_Cato

TheBull wrote: »

OP must be a DK Vamp.

That would be a terrible idea. Let all the "Find something broken" people class-hop from patch to patch..

This is exactly what I was thinking. A constant balance shift will only wreak havoc in gameplay and the economy. The prices for the needs and materials for each meta would fluctuate, and you would have a large amoeba of players that would have the same or similar build. IMHO, I think something like this would be counter productive to what they are going for in this game.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Solomon_Cato wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

OP must be a DK Vamp.

That would be a terrible idea. Let all the "Find something broken" people class-hop from patch to patch..

This is exactly what I was thinking. A constant balance shift will only wreak havoc in gameplay and the economy. The prices for the needs and materials for each meta would fluctuate, and you would have a large amoeba of players that would have the same or similar build. IMHO, I think something like this would be counter productive to what they are going for in this game.

Actually I am Sorc Vamp that lacks the gear to abuse bat swarm and is usually bugged where I have to reset my vampire stage to 3 before I can get back to 4. I was a Werewolf which I intended my character to be because his name is based off Wolf themes, but due to Werewolf being terrible I switched to Vampire. Once Werewolf is fixed to be at least somewhat viable I will switch back to Werewolf. I do have alts which are a DK, Temp and NB , but none of them are above level 14 at the moment.

People are already using cookie cutter builds thanks to builds posted on this site, Tamriel Foundry and other sites. People posting their OP builds that are streamers with thousands of viewers or Youtube personalities with channels that generate thousands of views. So I don't think that is a valid argument against allowing you to switch classes.

Solomon_Cato

Regarding cookie cutter builds, that is true from class to class. Notice, I said class to class. If you allow people to respec to a different class, you are looking at one huge ass cookie cutter build. What could stop people from going to the acclaimed OP build of that patch? Nothing. There are certain meta's for each class at the current moment, but by not allowing players to respec to a class keeps the balance somewhat respectable. Maybe not completely balanced, but respectable.

Surinen

Solomon_Cato wrote: »

Regarding cookie cutter builds, that is true from class to class. Notice, I said class to class. If you allow people to respec to a different class, you are looking at one huge ass cookie cutter build. What could stop people from going to the acclaimed OP build of that patch? Nothing. There are certain meta's for each class at the current moment, but by not allowing players to respec to a class keeps the balance somewhat respectable. Maybe not completely balanced, but respectable.

I'm fairly sure that majority of the players would go for whatever looks the best, feel for their rp or is simply interesting instead of min/max. there would be of course quite a lot of quite vocal maxxers and those who follow them but it should not prevent other people from enjoying their game. it is supposedly a TES that went MMO. many people these days attach extended definitions to this term, just like we see it here on the forums "go play skyrim, it's MMO!". imbalance is developer's responsibility, responsibility that should not limit us from enjoying TES-MMO however we want it to be. not everyone is competing(even though definition of game includes it) or treating it like sport. this is not just any other MMO, this is supposedly TES, lore masterpiece among the games, freeroaming moloch.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Solomon_Cato wrote: »

Regarding cookie cutter builds, that is true from class to class. Notice, I said class to class. If you allow people to respec to a different class, you are looking at one huge ass cookie cutter build. What could stop people from going to the acclaimed OP build of that patch? Nothing. There are certain meta's for each class at the current moment, but by not allowing players to respec to a class keeps the balance somewhat respectable. Maybe not completely balanced, but respectable.

The thing is that if people feel so strongly about some other class being OP then a lot of them will make an alt to play that class already. That is why you see so many DKs as it is. I personally know several players that stopped leveling their main to level DKs because they want to play what is viewed as the "best class in the game". If DKs ever get nerfed then those players will level another class that is viewed as OP.

These people already know all the grind spots and how to level the most efficiently in ESO at the moment. They can have another character in VR levels in a matter of 2-3 days or less depending on their available play time. So right now all limiting the class choices is doing is preventing some people from rolling FoTM because the people that really want to play the best will just roll another character in a heartbeat anyway.

As Surinen said, it's up to the developer to balance the game out between classes so shifts in class population like that don't happen.

Once they do fix Vampires then a lot of people.. I would say most people.. will drop the vampire skill tree because the streamers and top level leader board players will likely come up with another OP build so those players will use whatever the next build is so they don't feel inferior again.

Also I will point out that FF14 is a game that allows every character to play every class at any time and you don't see people running just 1 class on the server because in reality you can't just run 1 class.. ever. You still do need support or other abilities that your class can't do in situations because no 1 class can do everything.

ahspear37

I said it on a different thread, but I think it bears repeating on here:

Someone suggested on the other thread that they should basically allow you to pick any 3 skill trees you want for your class (essentially cutting out classes altogether but leaving 3 skill trees max and letting us "create" our own classes). I LOVE this idea. I also think it wouldn't be too hard to re-balance the game to accommodate for this. I just can't help but think of how cool it would be to play as a Bloodmage with Siphon, the Templar Healing tree, and the Sorc Dark Magic tree. Allowing us to create our own classes would also give us some freedom that I don't think a lot of, if any, MMOs have.

In my opinion that would be an awesome way to open the game up for players while still putting some restrictions on them so they don't get too powerful.

Solomon_Cato

Both of you argue valid point, but I am not sure that you completely see my point. Yes, there is a noticeably huge flock towards the DK due to the known power it has. At the same time this REQUIRES you to reroll. Then your argument could be that it only takes 24 hours to reach VR. True, but none the less that is still 24 hours of questing or mob grinding rather than dropping gold to simply switch classes. If something is easy and convenient for everyone I think you will see even MORE people jump ship for something that is optimal in performance.

As for FF14, you may be able to play multiple classes at any given time, but each class is still given a DEFINITE role in what they are expected to do. With ESO classes you still have the viability to Tank/DPS/Heal in any class, at any given time.

As for balancing the game, I agree 100% with both of you that it is up to the developer to balance the game. It is the crutch of such an infant game, and I think we will see some considerable changes in combat mechanics within the foreseeable future.

I respect each of your opinions, please do not think I am attacking either of you. I am doing this for the sake of discussion and elaboration. Lets keep this thing going.

Samadhi

I like to think of my character's class as being less a limitation and more a structure of character development; that is to say, I view the class skills as being something my character unlocks through memory of skills acquired during life before being sacrificed to Molag Bal.

My character can still learn the skills of people who lived their life in a different style by joining things like the Fighter's or Mage's guild now; however, I can never expect to be on par with someone who spent his or her whole life developing his or her "class skills."

I think Racial skills and Class skills are best left locked after character creation.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Solomon_Cato wrote: »

As for FF14, you may be able to play multiple classes at any given time, but each class is still given a DEFINITE role in what they are expected to do. With ESO classes you still have the viability to Tank/DPS/Heal in any class, at any given time.

Your right that you can change your skills in ESO to play different roles at any time, but you can't effectively play all roles at same time because you are limited to 10 skills and 2 ultimates.. 15 skills if you are a Sorc with Overload. You can't change your weapon in combat so you are very much limited in what roles you can effectively fill at any given time in ESO.

Surinen

Solomon_Cato wrote: »

Both of you argue valid point, but I am not sure that you completely see my point. Yes, there is a noticeably huge flock towards the DK due to the known power it has. At the same time this REQUIRES you to reroll. Then your argument could be that it only takes 24 hours to reach VR. True, but none the less that is still 24 hours of questing or mob grinding rather than dropping gold to simply switch classes. If something is easy and convenient for everyone I think you will see even MORE people jump ship for something that is optimal in performance.

As for FF14, you may be able to play multiple classes at any given time, but each class is still given a DEFINITE role in what they are expected to do. With ESO classes you still have the viability to Tank/DPS/Heal in any class, at any given time.

As for balancing the game, I agree 100% with both of you that it is up to the developer to balance the game. It is the crutch of such an infant game, and I think we will see some considerable changes in combat mechanics within the foreseeable future.

I respect each of your opinions, please do not think I am attacking either of you. I am doing this for the sake of discussion and elaboration. Lets keep this thing going.

to be honest I do not think that most of the people choose dragonknight because of his devastating potential. name alone: DRAGON + KNIGHT - can you get more fabulous? and then you have Skyrim and Akavir mention in the class description, katana swinging lizards(?) from the future(?) who breathe fire and make wings grow from their back? well, I buy it!

I'm a Sorcerer myself so I suffer from nofire complex that makes me sad. what I have hm lightning attacks, although only ultimate seems to be straight attack. then I have summoning, few uninteresting pets (as if atronach could not make into permanent summoning), one loud curse that sorround my enemies with purple-blue aura of devastating fate, and then there is dark magic, crystal like spiky tumor and some utility. really boring. oh I wish to be a sorceress from the cinematics. whoosh and broosh with green lightning-whip and force powers! telekinesis 101. it is not as if I want reroll a dragonknight but I do not mind borrowing their ardent flame line - or the other ones, because to be honest I find every three of theirs to be interesting both visually and gameplay wise. ah, as sorcerer I can blink. I guess leaving orb of electricy behind is the most attractive of spells I have.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Samadhi wrote: »

I like to think of my character's class as being less a limitation and more a structure of character development; that is to say, I view the class skills as being something my character unlocks through memory of skills acquired during life before being sacrificed to Molag Bal.

My character can still learn the skills of people who lived their life in a different style by joining things like the Fighter's or Mage's guild now; however, I can never expect to be on par with someone who spent his or her whole life developing his or her "class skills."

I think Racial skills and Class skills are best left locked after character creation.

Honestly I could agree with you in a RP sense at least, but you are able to pick up Vampire and Werewolf.. master both, drop them and pick them back up at any time at the level you left off with. I would think from a RP stand point that that is a major flaw already built into the game.

A game that you can literally change every skill your character has access to except their Class Skills. Racial skills aren't a huge factor since end game you can choose to pick up what you lack from enchants, traits, sets, or mundus stones. The racial skills really just help you hit the softcaps easier for the stats that have them, which most do.

Samadhi

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Honestly I could agree with you in a RP sense at least, but you are able to pick up Vampire and Werewolf.. master both, drop them and pick them back up at any time at the level you left off with. I would think from a RP stand point that that is a major flaw already built into the game.
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I don't RP, I just like character creation.
All characters in ESO are adults; they have spent a good portion of their life developing a particular skillset already. Changing that completely at whim makes no sense to me.
Race and Class decisions at the start of the game are on the same level.
Vampirism and Lycanthropy in Elder Scrolls are caused by transmittable diseases, curses and bargains with Daedric Princes. They have cures.
I see no issue with being able to be cured and then readopt the condition multiple times through a lifetime. I don't see that as in any way acting in counter to the fact that a 20-60 year old character grew up and lived learning a certain skillset before the game began.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

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A game that you can literally change every skill your character has access to except their Class Skills. Racial skills aren't a huge factor since end game you can choose to pick up what you lack from enchants, traits, sets, or mundus stones. The racial skills really just help you hit the softcaps easier for the stats that have them, which most do.

As I stated, this game allows characters to develop skills over time by joining guilds and unlocking other questlines.
My character was not a Mage before death, but can still learn a handful of Magic skills by joining the Mage's Guild after being saved from Coldharbour.

The only "benefit" to allowing Class change is that it allows the herd to jump from one popular thing to another. I view this as detrimental to gameplay and balance rather than a benefit though.

Certain choices warrant being permanent decisions in this game. Race and Class are among then -- they are aspects of the character that were set in stone before gameplay began.

As a sneak character, I started as a Bosmer (Stealth + Stealth damage bonus) and a Nightblade (various stealth bonuses). I view Race and Class skills as being as integral as one-another.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Samadhi wrote: »

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Honestly I could agree with you in a RP sense at least, but you are able to pick up Vampire and Werewolf.. master both, drop them and pick them back up at any time at the level you left off with. I would think from a RP stand point that that is a major flaw already built into the game.
...

I don't RP, I just like character creation.
All characters in ESO are adults; they have spent a good portion of their life developing a particular skillset already. Changing that completely at whim makes no sense to me.
Race and Class decisions at the start of the game are on the same level.
Vampirism and Lycanthropy in Elder Scrolls are caused by transmittable diseases, curses and bargains with Daedric Princes. They have cures.
I see no issue with being able to be cured and then readopt the condition multiple times through a lifetime. I don't see that as in any way acting in counter to the fact that a 20-60 year old character grew up and lived learning a certain skillset before the game began.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

...
A game that you can literally change every skill your character has access to except their Class Skills. Racial skills aren't a huge factor since end game you can choose to pick up what you lack from enchants, traits, sets, or mundus stones. The racial skills really just help you hit the softcaps easier for the stats that have them, which most do.

As I stated, this game allows characters to develop skills over time by joining guilds and unlocking other questlines.
My character was not a Mage before death, but can still learn a handful of Magic skills by joining the Mage's Guild after being saved from Coldharbour.

The only "benefit" to allowing Class change is that it allows the herd to jump from one popular thing to another. I view this as detrimental to gameplay and balance rather than a benefit though.

Certain choices warrant being permanent decisions in this game. Race and Class are among then -- they are aspects of the character that were set in stone before gameplay began.

As a sneak character, I started as a Bosmer (Stealth + Stealth damage bonus) and a Nightblade (various stealth bonuses). I view Race and Class skills as being as integral as one-another.

Classes are skills learned by the player as well. Dragonknights use battle-spirit that was developed by the Akaviri. Does that mean that a Dragon Knight can't possibly want to become a Templar that uses powers of the light and burning sun? If you are a master of the dark shadows then you can't learn the ancient Akaviri battle magic from the many Dragon Knights running around Tamriel? You can join the Mage's Guild to become like a mage..but because you were a Templer you can't possible learn dark magic, lightning spells or daedric summoning from a Sorcerer?

Classes aren't really a THING in older TES games. Players learned the skills they wanted over time. They didn't start out with pre-built themes and animation sets.

To my knowledge in other TES games once you CURE vampirism or lycanthropy then you are CURED and can never be affected by that curse again. Yet, in ESO you just have to repeat the quest again as many times as you want.

Let's not forget that the Mage's Guild in ESO is absolutely nothing like the Mage's Guild in other TES games. You can't learn all of the schools of magic in ESO.. hell there are no schools of magic in ESO right now. Not until they bring in Spell Crafting that was announced in the AMA. Suddenly people WILL be able to learn spells from the actual schools of magic like other TES games. Why couldn't they be taught the skills of other classes that run rampant throughout the game? You aren't born a class. All the lore shows that those classes are learned skills from sources inside Tamriel.

I don't think you will win this argument by referencing older TES games. If anything it further proves the point that you shouldn't be tied to any choices.

merwanoreb17_ESO

Yes please, the class system is one of the big issues I have with the game. All the ES games has always been about being able to play what you want, when you want. If I start as a warrior or a fighter, I should be able to change to playing a spellcaster or a ranger. I can do this, but some abilities will always be closed of to me, and as far as I know, being a sneaky character will always be gimped if I am not a Night Blade, and a healer will always be better as a Templar.

Samadhi

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

...
Classes are skills learned by the player as well. Dragonknights use battle-spirit that was developed by the Akaviri. Does that mean that a Dragon Knight can't possibly want to become a Templar that uses powers of the light and burning sun? If you are a master of the dark shadows then you can't learn the ancient Akaviri battle magic from the many Dragon Knights running around Tamriel? You can join the Mage's Guild to become like a mage..but because you were a Templer you can't possible learn dark magic, lightning spells or daedric summoning from a Sorcerer?
...

If my character were a Templar that spent 60 years learning from the Divines, I could still pick up a destruction staff and learn destruction magic. I could not have the level of skill that someone who spent 60 years learning the other forms of magic.
If I really wanted to, I could even remove all Templar skills from my skillset and replace them entirely with Destruction staff spells and Mage's Guild skills.
When the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are implemented, my character could make a third shift over to a life of shadows.

In terms of Oblivion or Skyrim, if I spent 40+ levels swinging a sword in heavy armour and pouring all my attribute points or perks into it, I'm going to have a very difficult go of it learning magic late in the game. It's feasible, but I won't have the real edge that a character whom I spent those 40+ levels doing it does.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

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Classes aren't really a THING in older TES games. Players learned the skills they wanted over time. They didn't start out with pre-built themes and animation sets.
...

I actually recall my race, birthsign and class selection supplying me with unique starting stat bonuses as well as unique skills in Oblivion. The skills were not something I could replace later in game; they were set in stone.
I think this was also true of Morrowind.

Skyrim really dumbed-down character creation in that regard by limiting it to only race. I can agree with that.

ESO recaptured the earlier design somewhat; however, the classes here have more of an impact towards endgame than the starting game. That's the contrast. I don't have an issue with that contrast and I feel it suits the game setup well.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

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To my knowledge in other TES games once you CURE vampirism or lycanthropy then you are CURED and can never be affected by that curse again. Yet, in ESO you just have to repeat the quest again as many times as you want.
...

In Skyrim I could take quests to get reinfected.
Oblivion might have locked players out of contracting it from other vampires after the cure; I only played a vampire once in Oblivion.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

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Let's not forget that the Mage's Guild in ESO is absolutely nothing like the Mage's Guild in other TES games. You can't learn all of the schools of magic in ESO.. hell there are no schools of magic in ESO right now. Not until they bring in Spell Crafting that was announced in the AMA. Suddenly people WILL be able to learn spells from the actual schools of magic like other TES games. Why couldn't they be taught the skills of other classes that run rampant throughout the game? You aren't born a class. All the lore shows that those classes are learned skills from sources inside Tamriel.
...

You just referenced Spellmaking, which hearkens back to the Mage's guild in Oblivion.
Spellmaking is a system that will further reinforce a lack of need to change classes; people who want to swap to magic specced characters will be able to have spells without being Sorcerors for years before they were sacrificed to Molag Bal.

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

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I don't think you will win this argument by referencing older TES games. If anything it further proves the point that you shouldn't be tied to any choices.

I'm simply providing my feedback as to why I think that a class change feature does not make sense and is not worth having in game.

Surinen

Samadhi wrote: »

snipmer: Tower became

well! my character knows every kinds of magic, so I want to cast everything I wish!

you could also create your own character in oblivion. and this is what this game lacks. freedom of choice.

ESO does not only lack a proper TES character creation but what is more important: it needs it!

Cagro

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

NO NO and NO this encourages FoTM! Maybe a better solution is to have to reach say level ten before you choose the class that is right for you. By level ten you will know what kind of playstyle you would like to have. Re rolling a class just isn't a good idea IMO

You can level a character to 50 in less than 24 hours still. If people really wanted to be FoTM then they are already doing it by rolling an alt. Not to mention that some people feel one class is OP versus another class because they don't want to roll the other class they are talking about to actually experience what that class is like. Which is why a lot of people make claims about balance and they really shouldn't because they are basing everything off the feeling of their under powered class.

Can you really level to 50 in less than 24 hours? How? I am asking because I have been playing since the five day early access and I am still level 11 with my main and level 7 with my alt. I do not find the game hard at all but super slow to level. Last time I check I think my total played time was like 1 1/2 day or 3 1/2 days. Do not remember for sure. I just do quests.

Surinen

Cagro wrote: »

Can you really level to 50 in less than 24 hours? How? I am asking because I have been playing since the five day early access and I am still level 11 with my main and level 7 with my alt. I do not find the game hard at all but super slow to level. Last time I check I think my total played time was like 1 1/2 day or 3 1/2 days. Do not remember for sure. I just do quests.

aoe grind at certain spots.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Good old multi-quoting... You know if you want to be a troll this is exactly the best way to go about it. Let's have fun shall we?

Samadhi wrote: »

In terms of Oblivion or Skyrim, if I spent 40+ levels swinging a sword in heavy armour and pouring all my attribute points or perks into it, I'm going to have a very difficult go of it learning magic late in the game. It's feasible, but I won't have the real edge that a character whom I spent those 40+ levels doing it does.

But you could do it and you can't in ESO. Thanks for making my point.

Samadhi wrote: »

I actually recall my race, birthsign and class selection supplying me with unique starting stat bonuses as well as unique skills in Oblivion. The skills were not something I could replace later in game; they were set in stone.

I didn't mention stats at all. I was talking about skills and nothing you mentioned pertains to classes. Stats can be made up in other areas of all the games.

The skills you learn in TES games are not bound by classes.. at all. Oblivion did have the ability to choose preset base starting builds that didn't include actual abilities... but you didn't HAVE to. You could make a character exactly the way you wanted it. You could choose all of that separately if you wanted. It was an option.

Samadhi wrote: »

You just referenced Spellmaking, which hearkens back to the Mage's guild in Oblivion.
Spellmaking is a system that will further reinforce a lack of need to change classes; people who want to swap to magic specced characters will be able to have spells without being Sorcerors for years before they were sacrificed to Molag Bal.

First, all classes in ESO are magic based because all class abilities use Magicka and scale off Magicka. You can try to make a completely stamina based character, but you would be utterly gimping yourself if you do.

I referenced the schools of magic that had all of their respective spells under them and spell crafting is a stop gap to bridge ESO's lack of choice. Unless spell crafting will make up for all of the differences that are unique to a class then it's not going to replace the ability truly customize your character the way YOU want to play like you could in old TES games.

If you want to be the best healer you absolutely have to be Templar because no other class can heal without a restoration staff at the ability of a Templar. If you want to have fire spells outside of the destruction staff then you absolutely have to be a Dragon Knight. If you want lightning spells outside of a lightning destruction staff or summoning spells then you have to be a Sorcerer. If you want to have abilities that make you the best sneaking, back stabbing rogue in the game then you absolutely have to be a Night Blade.

As much as I love that the devs are going to attempt to bring in the ability for classes to learn schools of magic it still won't change the fact that you are still limited at character creation by class choice.

Samadhi wrote: »

I'm simply providing my feedback as to why I think that a class change feature does not make sense and is not worth having in game.

Seems more like you are trying to grasp at straws to justify the decisions made in ESO that are unique to ESO and trying to justify those claims with older TES games that are not like ESO.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Cagro wrote: »

Can you really level to 50 in less than 24 hours? How? I am asking because I have been playing since the five day early access and I am still level 11 with my main and level 7 with my alt. I do not find the game hard at all but super slow to level. Last time I check I think my total played time was like 1 1/2 day or 3 1/2 days. Do not remember for sure. I just do quests.

Elder Scrolls Online 1-50 in 17hours Fast leveling Ebonheart (al
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSPWzsTAVhg

Since it's not a secret people are sharing how they did it. Pryda has been VR10 since April 4th.... the day that ESO officially launched. Many people were 50 in less than 24 hours doing similar grinding.

Samadhi

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Good old multi-quoting... You know if you want to be a troll this is exactly the best way to go about it. Let's have fun shall we?
...

I was not at any point trolling. I provided feedback as to why I think a class change feature is not a good idea.
I like the system as it is. I like the way it hearkens back to character creation in the earlier games.
It is unfortunate that is so upsetting to you.

Solomon_Cato

Surinen wrote: »

Solomon_Cato wrote: »

Both of you argue valid point, but I am not sure that you completely see my point. Yes, there is a noticeably huge flock towards the DK due to the known power it has. At the same time this REQUIRES you to reroll. Then your argument could be that it only takes 24 hours to reach VR. True, but none the less that is still 24 hours of questing or mob grinding rather than dropping gold to simply switch classes. If something is easy and convenient for everyone I think you will see even MORE people jump ship for something that is optimal in performance.

As for FF14, you may be able to play multiple classes at any given time, but each class is still given a DEFINITE role in what they are expected to do. With ESO classes you still have the viability to Tank/DPS/Heal in any class, at any given time.

As for balancing the game, I agree 100% with both of you that it is up to the developer to balance the game. It is the crutch of such an infant game, and I think we will see some considerable changes in combat mechanics within the foreseeable future.

I respect each of your opinions, please do not think I am attacking either of you. I am doing this for the sake of discussion and elaboration. Lets keep this thing going.

to be honest I do not think that most of the people choose dragonknight because of his devastating potential. name alone: DRAGON + KNIGHT - can you get more fabulous? and then you have Skyrim and Akavir mention in the class description, katana swinging lizards(?) from the future(?) who breathe fire and make wings grow from their back? well, I buy it!

I'm a Sorcerer myself so I suffer from nofire complex that makes me sad. what I have hm lightning attacks, although only ultimate seems to be straight attack. then I have summoning, few uninteresting pets (as if atronach could not make into permanent summoning), one loud curse that sorround my enemies with purple-blue aura of devastating fate, and then there is dark magic, crystal like spiky tumor and some utility. really boring. oh I wish to be a sorceress from the cinematics. whoosh and broosh with green lightning-whip and force powers! telekinesis 101. it is not as if I want reroll a dragonknight but I do not mind borrowing their ardent flame line - or the other ones, because to be honest I find every three of theirs to be interesting both visually and gameplay wise. ah, as sorcerer I can blink. I guess leaving orb of electricy behind is the most attractive of spells I have.

I TOTALLY get what you are saying here, because I main a sorcerer too . I laughed at this so hard because it is so true. Aesthetically there is NO comparison between casting Crystal Fragments and casting Flame Whip, and I get that, I truly do. However, I still believe there is a healthy population of competitive players who would take advantage of a respec system like the one suggested.

Also, I too have wished to have access to the Ardent Flame line at times..... would be very entertaining.