Mist form abuse.

Teloran

SunfireKnight86 wrote: »

Teloran wrote: »

You do realise that he still takes 25% damage and cannot attack OR block while using it? If you lose to someone spamming mistform then it's entirely your problem.

There's also no reason why you wouldn't be able to target him. The skill does absolutely nothing mechanically to stop you. Just point you cursor at him and attack.

Can't hit him if you can't target/see him and he's moving faster than a horse. Also outruns AoE. Try again.

If he's moving fast, he's using Elusive Mist and hence is doing no damage for its duration. It is a fantastic escape tool, on par with Bolt Escape, but he cannot kill you while using it without using an ultimate. If you can't see him that's your problem. There is a visible cloud.

killedbyping

When im saying you can not target or use any skills on guy in Mist Form i mean it.
You just CAN'T use any ability, skill or spell on guy in Mist Form.
All of you abilitys are GREY when you look at him and you cant even click it.

If you started to cast some spell or skill BEFORE he used Mist it will continue until it ends. But yo would not be able to use anything else untill Mist Form ends.

Tharvall

blackwolf7 wrote: »

you can easily kill vampires with fire and silverbolt attacks. Easy as that.

only if you can hit them. however the skills are greyed out and all you can do is spam the buttons and hope that they fire when mist form runs out and the vamp triggers it again.

if they'd change it so that you can at least target the vamp then everything would be fine. but apparently it is not an issue for zenimax. apparently it is OK that 5+ people or even more cannot kill a vampire. not because he's so invicible or because he is such a good player but just because you cannot target him.

but worst of all, more and more players in pvp become vampires now. at the end of the day it will be vampires all over. what a boring perspective.

SunfireKnight86

1) Everyone keeps saying that, but it's never happened to me.

1) Even if it is true, it isn't like you can't just sit there for 2 hours and watch Netflix.

lao

cjtignub17_ESO wrote: »

Before people start saying it: The 4 ultimate cost was a photoshop the player already admitted to doing it on reddit but thats already been verified in a separate thread on these forums so i'll stay on the topic of mist form.

wrong. 275 base cost -98% cost reduction = 5.5 total cost (60% from vampirism stage 4 + 20% from dragon set + 3% from seducer set + 15% from sorc passive)

i assume the ulti base cost goes down when the skill levels up and thats how it turns out at 4 instead of 5.5. i cant tell cos mine isnt maxed yet.

however the point is its not a fake.

any other class can get up to 83% cost reduction which leaves you at precisely 46.75 cost. (if we take 275 as base cost)

DerEwige

Hey I’d like to add my 5 cents to the discussion.

I’m a vampire player myself. I agree that right now a vampire with the right combination of skills and items is too strong. The main problem is how far down you can bring the cost for your ultimate.

But actually that is not because of the vampire skills it’s because of a design flaw how percentage cost reduction is implemented.

Right now percentage based cost reductions get added up. That is really bad, because if you have enough sources for cost reduction you could reach zero.
Right now a vampire player gets 60% ulti reduction from stage 4 vampirism,
20% from Dragon set, 3% from Seducer Set and another 15% if he is a sorcerer.

That’s 60%+20%+15%+3% = 98% reduction on ultimate cost. That makes the ulti cost only 4 ultimate.

(Note: There is currently a bug, so that the vampirism buff only works when you reached the vampirism state while in the zone, as soon as you switch zoon the buff does not work any more)

If there were one more source of ulti cost reduction you could make the ultimate totally free. This is really bad.

But it’s not the problem of the vampires!

Percentage based cost reduction should always be multiplied and not added up.

It should be like this: (1-0.6)*(1-0.2)*(1-0.15)*(1-0.03) = 0.264
This way, the max reduction would only be 73.6% instead of 98%

TL;DR

The problem with the cheap vampire ultimate is not a vampire problem but a design flaw.
Change the way percentage based cost reduction is handled from adding up to multiplying and the worst part of the problem is solved. (fine tuning might still be necessary)

TheBull

bantad87 wrote: »

Futrix wrote: »

Tzarken wrote: »

Keapoe wrote: »

You are correct it costs 0 Stamina... however it does cost almost 500 magika..

Stage 4 vampirism makes vamp abilities cost 60% less.

Sure, but stage 4 has less survivability, which is basically what the complaint here was about.

Which is a moot point when you spam your ultimate AOE and stay in mist form 24/7, while receiving healing you shouldn't be getting. Fix the healing debuff on mist form so that it actually works.

That's the broken part. Not all vamps can do that. Only the few (few too many..) that have the bat swarm bug can do that.

skarvika

Just had a fight with a vampire who liked spamming this skill (I won by the way, so don't dismiss my comment as someone who is a sore loser) and it was incredibly annoying. Ended up having to chase him for a few minutes, making myself vulnerable. If it's true that it it costs 500 magicka to use, then I want to know how the hell a Dragonknight would be specced so that he can use this skill for nearly 3 minutes straight...
Also, even when my Binding Javelin (a knockback skill) would hit him as he was turning into mist form, he wouldn't be knocked back at all and could continue running as normal.
Either way, I'm glad I had decided to use a bow as a secondary weapon. Only reason I got him is because he thought he was in the clear and stopped to look around or something. :P
This skill definitely needs a fix, it should make it easier to escape but not next to impossible to catch. I've seen this skill being abused many times; a guy's pulling a Leeroy Jenkins and attacking other players or npcs, he turns into mist when he starts taking some damage, comes back a few seconds later after receiving heals, attacks, rinse wash and repeat until he's cleared the area. It's almost as close to a god mode you can get in this game if you know how to use it to your advantage.

Niminion

YOU CAN NOT CAST SPELLS AT SOMEONE IN MIST FORM. Try it, you need a target under your reticle to hit someone with anything besides an aoe, and they move too fast for aoe. Mistform does not register as a target.

It is a spammable invulnerability with speed boost added in and it is overpowered.

At stage 4 it is completely broken!

Sorc bolt escape looks weak compared to this, every class has access to the best escape spell in the game.

Phoenix99

well technically you can cast AoE spells on them. Dark talons and encase are particularly good for holding them in place for other AoE combos. sometimes you can TAB on them and then try to use single target melee range spells, like lava whip etc. but it's not that effective without a good root

bloodenragedb14_ESO

honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game, did you call the devs or publisher and demand a fix? no? then why should they do it here, they had beta after beta of people doing the same thing, and if you ask me, more people played the beta because it was free. if they didnt nerf the classes then, why should they now.

play the game and learn to counter attack, dont sit and cry because someone is better than you.

Phoenix99

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game, did you call the devs or publisher and demand a fix? no? then why should they do it here, they had beta after beta of people doing the same thing, and if you ask me, more people played the beta because it was free. if they didnt nerf the classes then, why should they now.

play the game and learn to counter attack, dont sit and cry because someone is better than you.

You realize that the public beta did not have access to VR levels, gear and things like WW and Vampire?

You did not even see many level 30ish and I do not think I've seen a single bolt escape sorc during public betas, because of level caps...

Comparing a stress test to a true open beta with all PvP things open is a bit too much. People had not that great selection of skills due to low levels and everyone had the same stats (since there was virtually no VR levels unless some Psijic Order tester decided to log in, and even they I believe they had restrictions on what they can use during public beta period)

Also, comparing a PvE games of my youth to PvP experience and balance is some flawed comparison... Do you remember early RTS ages and PvP experience there? Are you also comparing the age of very limited feedback on products to the current age?

Niminion

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game, did you call the devs or publisher and demand a fix? no? then why should they do it here, they had beta after beta of people doing the same thing, and if you ask me, more people played the beta because it was free. if they didnt nerf the classes then, why should they now.

play the game and learn to counter attack, dont sit and cry because someone is better than you.

Yep l2play guys, killing an invulnerable vampire spamming an aoe dain life is easy. All you gotta do is up,up,down,down,left,right,left,right,B,A,Silverbolts and they die.

Please tell everyone here how to "counter attack" properly.

Tharvall

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game, did you call the devs or publisher and demand a fix? no? then why should they do it here, they had beta after beta of people doing the same thing, and if you ask me, more people played the beta because it was free. if they didnt nerf the classes then, why should they now.

play the game and learn to counter attack, dont sit and cry because someone is better than you.

this is complete nonsense.

the mist form "invulnerability" (= not attackable) is a bug, period. it's not about being "better", I bet lots of vampire players don't even know that they cannot be attacked during mist form.

you CAN counter it by getting the enemy in your target using TAB. this works 100%. but this is still just a workaround for a major bug.

so please spare us with such crap in the future. thank you very much.

skarvika

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game, did you call the devs or publisher and demand a fix? no? then why should they do it here, they had beta after beta of people doing the same thing, and if you ask me, more people played the beta because it was free. if they didnt nerf the classes then, why should they now.

play the game and learn to counter attack, dont sit and cry because someone is better than you.

Yeah, the guy that I fought last night was indeed better than me, come to think of it. He was truly playing the game right, spamming the same one skill over and over, running away, zipping across a good chunk of the map just to be killed by me, who was a lower veteran rank than him. He clearly was the better player. Give me a break!
Remember when you came across a boss in an rpg game that you couldn't beat? Oh that's right...back in the day before people could personally ask the devs for a fix, they'd print magazines with guides, tips, tricks and cheats. Remember Gameshark?

killedbyping

So i became a vampire too now. Not for Mist Form thou, but for stealth and stamina regen and damage reduction bonuses.
But ofc the first thing i tryed was a Mist Form. And i can confirm that skill make me untargetable for enemys. Ican just *** round in the middle of enemy group and only AOE can hit me. With Vampirism state 4 its already cost nearly nothing and i can spam it for much more then 2-3 times with only 1k of magika. I dont even use any magika cost reduction or regen items.

Cant check right now because of maintance, but it seems to me that even mobs cant attack me while in Mist Form.

Alephen

possible solution: mist form drops offensive skills. so cast bats, then go mist, bats poof.

but the learn to play comments i find humorous. for this reason: learn to play in this game means one thing: get a cheesy OP spec and spam 1 maybe 2 abilities. while i hate the tendancy of PvP to constantly nerf specs, and unfortunately (imo) this is a pvp game, this game is not a learn to play game - it is not difficult. 1) step out or block when you see big red area markers 2) ranged attack while strafing in circles for almost every boss 3) have a small heal, 4) find the cheesy specs (this is one, block/impulse, spamming any stun (like bash) for pvp/trash mobs and spam the one, maybe 2 abilities for win.

hard? no. have to think? no. please stop with the learn to play. this is the easiest mmo to learn to play i have encountered. learn to cheese is much more accurate.

Brittany_Joy

cjtignub17_ESO wrote: »

I know about the zone bug i feed to 3 and let it drop to 4 after 1.5 hrs to get my reduction buff (whcih is bs) I still felt it was rather expensive but perhaps I'm not as stacked as you are with magicka regen / regen abilities / reduction cost. Not sure about ur build.

I don't really think its any more spammable than other ultimates it still costs 50ish ultimate perhaps the nerf should be made in how fast you can gain ultimate. You can get non-vamp ultimates down to 80s (lower if emp) with ult reduction. And you can get 80 ultimate in a few seconds with the proper builds.

You can set up to:
Gain ultimate when you take any damage
Get ultimate on kills (you get like 20 ultimate back on player kills with alliance passive)
ultimate on feed
and so forth....
- Also if u drop a heal or two out there like mutagen thats another 20-30 ultimate very fast.

In my opinion, the issue isn't ultimate cost. the issue is how easy it is to gain ultimate, which I think is a non-issue because everyone can do it and you sorta gimp yourself if you focus on ultimate regen in exchange for other bonuses so its a personal decision.

Before people start saying it: The 4 ultimate cost was a photoshop the player already admitted to doing it on reddit but thats already been verified in a separate thread on these forums so i'll stay on the topic of mist form.

I think its a waste to pop bat swarm and go into mist. Mist is bugged as hell, doesn't do damage properly and doesn't make u immune to CCs. You do far more damage spamming pulsar or other aoes then turtling in mist form and doing a measley 200 dmg / sec. If people actually die to someone just spamming bat swarm whenever its up thats pretty pitiful.

Again a negate magic on the person and theres your paper to beat rock. (thats just 1 of a dozen ways to beat this build, which really is not OP compared to DK fire mage, DPS templar, and so forth....

Mist form does make you immune to CC. You still need to dodge roots and block knock downs, whatever gets through your CC immunity has a counter move that you are supposed to be doing instead.

Stravokov

the OP doesn't know what he is talking about. clearly by the information he is given, he knows nothing about the vampire skill mechanics.about it.

*Edited: Flames aren't allowed*

Phoenix99

It's funny, because most ppl defending some clearly unbalanced mechanics are low skill scrubs who can achieve nothing in well balanced PvP games, like competitive MOBA, RTS, FPS, and the only way for them to shine and self ego stroke is to exploit bugs and use ultra cheese builds after they spend their no-lifer time on grinding stuff and levels or simply buy it for real money.

Some skills are just too good for the cost and some synergies need to be looked upon with skills getting some tweaks here and there. There also needs to be some balancing sweep and leveling magicka and stamina builds in their viability, as currently magicka trumps over stamina with very few crit based exceptions.

sir_vasb16_ESO

alot of nerftrolls in this thread.. Works as intended now move along to the next abillity you want to complain about... Maybe sorce telly?

Columba

this is still being exploited, lol

kijima

Okay, so explain the exploit then.

All I see is a lot of people complaining about it, but not providing any information on the 'exploit'.

1. You can't cause any damage while in mist form
2. It's primary use is for escape
3. You still get damaged while in Mist Form, although it's greatly reduced
4. It's not hard to see, if you are finding it hard then you need to see an optometrist

Parrotbrain

Nice necro...