Bots - The Technical Reasons Behind Them

Publius_Scipio

Bots are a big topic right now and I want to understand more about what they are and who is behind them.

There are gold sellers, boss campers, and I am hearing something about invisible bots flying to nodes and collecting them. First off, who creates the bots? Is this the same "people in China" thing? Secondly and of more interest to me, how do these bots exist in the first place? I know ESO has its API's which allow modding and addons to be created, but I know ZOS has really tightened up which API's are available for use. So the creators behind the bots have HACKED ESO? How can they create these automated characters that are invisible and whatever else?

I think you all see where I am going with my questions. For all of you that are able to, please enlighten this thread. Thank you.

reggielee

I dont think they have hacked the game code but rather use mods and commands that work within the allowable limits of addon permissions. meh.... i hope

Publius_Scipio

reggielee wrote: »

I dont think they have hacked the game code but rather use mods and commands that work within the allowable limits of addon permissions. meh.... i hope

I don't know. Addons like the FTC one and similar ones is something I think of when I think of mods and addons. Automated characters that are invisible and teleport node to node sounds like an entirely different universe to me. They have to have tapped into something much greater within the ESO game workings to pull that off I would think.

awkwarrd

It sounds alot like MMO Viper.

They always did teleport/invisible/farming/botting programs, and i think they still do.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had a secret cult following that's not listed on their website that is aimed at ESO.

But then again it could be anyone of those bot making companies.

Publius_Scipio

awkwarrd wrote: »

It sounds alot like MMO Viper.

They always did teleport/invisible/farming/botting programs, and i think they still do.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had a secret cult following that's not listed on their website that is aimed at ESO.

But then again it could be anyone of those bot making companies.

And these companies essentially hack into a game's inner workings?

Publius_Scipio

Need more answers.

Vixus

Edited: Flaming

Publius_Scipio

Whoever created these bots tapped deeper into the game code than anyone would like I think. They have given the bots some pretty gnarly AI and abilities. Is our personal information in the ZOS servers properly protected?

Vlas

You can actually tap into the DLL of existing code and utilize the command functions there. These are called "hooks".

When writing code, there are many ways to restrict this access and functionality. For server side, it would be movement checks, command/ability access checks, etc.

So, if someone is going too fast, then something is wrong. problem is there are many things that can make you move quickly/port around in the game. So in conjunction with the speed check, they need to look at level of character and actual abilities on the players bar and if that ability was used.

The other part is to limit access in the code itself by configuring the code to be private for cheat level functionality and public for code that executes that private level code. This can work, but as you can tell has flaws. It is the way someone designs the code that can make it more secure. Through checks and verification processes.

Of course cheaters add a lot of code because of this, but in most cases checks are needed so that if a player has an unexpected hickup, that check will see it and revert or continue on.

These checks have not been developed at all or as well as they could be.

krix_ost

Here is the answer you may not want to hear.

ZeniMax has chosen to use Client Side Trust for many of the work load for the game. This does have advantages because every computer can do their own calculations and send that to the Server for Updating. However, it seems this data is not being encrypted (which adds overhead and complicates network delivery). As hinted above.

So, what you have is the Client doing a lot of work for the Server....the Client knows where things are and what Numbers to Add/Decrease. This is what the Bots, Unlimited Dodge, Unlimited uses of Ultimate Power....and many many many other things are doing in this game.

Google: ESO Client Side Locations or ESO Client Side Trust

You will find some interesting information here. At a few of the sites you can even download the bot code and do it yourself.
*Russians seem to be the main providers of the hacking code.

Also search: ESO Cheat Engine

Judge for yourself. Cheat Engine uses LUA for many really nifty tasks...and for ESO it is being used to modify data to the server from the client. Which should not be happening.

ZeniMax will get a handle on this at some point. This is a huge item but not impossible to resolve. I hope they do since this is a security risk to all as well as making the game simply not that much fun.

lewty72

I have been reporting the bot's that I have came across though they do tend to camp certain dungeons. I just hope that they are indeed looking into it and banning the accounts that are doing it.

I know people farm areas which I don't mind how a person spends their time but these bot's are just for financial gain and Not to play the game so any account offering to sell gold should instantly get banned as I am sick of the spam and trying to out hit 4/8 bots on a boss to complete my quest.

Shillen

Are you guys certain they're botting? I've started up conversations with several people contributing at many of the public dungeon bosses. Even when we're down to 4-5 people I still get responses to my comments. I'm starting to think you guys have probably reported me for botting. I just kill the boss until my inventory is full (which takes all of 10 minutes) and then I leave but you wouldn't know any better.

Vixus

*Edited: Flamming*

AlliN

I think we need to wait for immortal emperor roflstomping whole raids, maybe then they will se that there's some problems in the game.

MysticAura

I'm sure there are probably some bots (not that I've encountered any yet) The api probably needs some more safeguards in place. It almost seems like some are able to trigger some staff only commands or something. Purely theory mind you.

I do think people are going rather over the top and getting bot jumpy either way. Regardless, Zeni is looking into it (they have stated such in a few threads now) and I'm sure it will get dealt with.

Shillen

*Edited: quoted a flaming post above*

lewty72

I would happily go without my mod's if it meant their would be no bot's in the game as for me a limited UI is better than not been able to complete a quest because of the 6/8 bots camping a boss.

Shillen

lewty72 wrote: »

I would happily go without my mod's if it meant their would be no bot's in the game as for me a limited UI is better than not been able to complete a quest because of the 6/8 bots camping a boss.

Not me. I can't even play without addons. Their default UI is beyond terrible.

Publius_Scipio

Whatever is going on Zenimax has the deep enough pockets to implement a fix. It's a matter of developing a plan and implementing said plan.

But I am concerned about serious security risks.

Blackout_STi

MysticAura wrote: »

I'm sure there are probably some bots (not that I've encountered any yet) The api probably needs some more safeguards in place. It almost seems like some are able to trigger some staff only commands or something. Purely theory mind you.

I do think people are going rather over the top and getting bot jumpy either way. Regardless, Zeni is looking into it (they have stated such in a few threads now) and I'm sure it will get dealt with.

Have you spent any time in the game? At least 25% of the chat messages are gold-seller spam (I know there is add-on to combat this). I find it really annoying when I get to the end of a dungeon and there is a pack of ravenous 'xlsdgfjlsf' characters waiting to pounce on a boss. It ruins the immersion and defeats the purpose of the dungeon.

It is ridiculous that people are able to make money off gold in this game IMO. I am not bashing you personally, I just cannot believe you have not ran into any bots. Do you not play much? No matter what the devs do (detection-scripts, etc.), these turds will find away around it. I would hope with the $60+ they make off each of us, they will eventually find the time to do something about these bots. If we can determine who these spammers are, then a program can be created to detect them, and delete their account.

Aci

lewty72 wrote: »

I would happily go without my mod's if it meant their would be no bot's in the game as for me a limited UI is better than not been able to complete a quest because of the 6/8 bots camping a boss.

I would sign that.
Chat is getting spammed, bosses are camped 24/7 and nodes either. They should not only ban the gold sellers but the gold recievers, too! Kill their market please.
I know there is an example on the forum where one guy was banned (for no reason though), he gave the money. But the person who GOT the money didnt get any ban or suspension. I dont know if that would help but it would greatly discourage many gold buyers. Im pretty sure.

Daggers

Shillen wrote: »

Are you guys certain they're botting? I've started up conversations with several people contributing at many of the public dungeon bosses. Even when we're down to 4-5 people I still get responses to my comments. I'm starting to think you guys have probably reported me for botting. I just kill the boss until my inventory is full (which takes all of 10 minutes) and then I leave but you wouldn't know any better.

Double vision?


Edited: bots, naming and shaming rule. Video removed.

Daggers

(and for extra fun, check out his chat log at the end of the video ... lol )

KerinKor

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

So the creators behind the bots have HACKED ESO?

LOL, no.

ESO is the same as pretty much every MMO, this is nothing new. Just use Google to search for the obvious and you'll learn very quickly the basis on how these bots work.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

How can they create these automated characters that are invisible and whatever else?

Tele-bots are nothing new, 'under the ground bots' are nothing new, what I've not seen before are 'above ground' invisi-bots.

They are not inevitable, but it requires ZOS to design systems with anti-bot and anti-spam mechanics in plac, they singularly failed to do so and we are now reaping the rewards of that negligence.

Thechemicals

Its not just bots from gold sellers. A customer purchases 2 copies of eso, a main and a mule, then uses the mule to use macro programs and hacks. Hacks in this game are very easy to do versus say WoW. Blizzard encrypts the data (laymans)from their side while this game does not. You dont even need a hack program, you could just use a standard legal office macro program to bot.
* I do not promote or use these programs.

If you dont like this and feel its an ice breaker for you then you should cancel your subscription to this game and all games youll ever play, mmo,fps, rts, doesnt matter the genre. The only shield is the quality of the security team for the company. Again Blizzard is exceptional at this above all other companies.

reggielee

thanks for the explanation regarding what i have seen, bots auto attacking invisible mobs before they spawn, it was obvious that they could 'see' mobs before they actually spawned in game.

I also camp bosses and dungeons to get items to deconstruct for crafting and gold. The diff betw me and other players and the bots are the grouping, all moving en masse as one entity, all wearing starter armor, all using idiot names like llllcccddd . Its easy to see a real player vs a bot or macro using cheat. report those

pmn100b16_ESO

Daggers wrote: »

Shillen wrote: »

Are you guys certain they're botting? I've started up conversations with several people contributing at many of the public dungeon bosses. Even when we're down to 4-5 people I still get responses to my comments. I'm starting to think you guys have probably reported me for botting. I just kill the boss until my inventory is full (which takes all of 10 minutes) and then I leave but you wouldn't know any better.

Double vision?

Edited: bots, naming and shaming rule. Video removed.

I think anyone can see these three are in fact siblings (hence their surnames are the same), grouped up in their soul shriven gear having group fun on the landscape. Stop harassing them.

aeroch

@Thechemicals‌ Why wouldn't Zeni encrypt their data? Is there a technical reason?

Thanks to all the posters for their insightful replies btw, this is morbidly fascinating

Daggers

Thechemicals wrote: »

Its not just bots from gold sellers. A customer purchases 2 copies of eso, a main and a mule, then uses the mule to use macro programs and hacks. Hacks in this game are very easy to do versus say WoW. Blizzard encrypts the data (laymans)from their side while this game does not. You dont even need a hack program, you could just use a standard legal office macro program to bot.
* I do not promote or use these programs.

If you dont like this and feel its an ice breaker for you then you should cancel your subscription to this game and all games youll ever play, mmo,fps, rts, doesnt matter the genre. The only shield is the quality of the security team for the company. Again Blizzard is exceptional at this above all other companies.

I think that's a little genre alarmist. ESO easily has the worst bot infestation I've seen in a launch MMO specifically because the broke the first rule of serious networking - they trust the client. Ironically, I'd compare it to trusting the rest of the internet with our login usernames, but hey we've done that argument already.

The more I discover, the more stupid I think the people responsible for this are, in the truest sense of "where were you when God gave out brains?".

This is schoolboy error stuff, not the hallmark of a multi-million-dollar investment. It's fixable, but the fact we're here now talking about it is quite strange.

Daggers

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Daggers wrote: »

Shillen wrote: »

Are you guys certain they're botting? I've started up conversations with several people contributing at many of the public dungeon bosses. Even when we're down to 4-5 people I still get responses to my comments. I'm starting to think you guys have probably reported me for botting. I just kill the boss until my inventory is full (which takes all of 10 minutes) and then I leave but you wouldn't know any better.

Double vision?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WetsfoFoDA&feature=youtu.be

I think anyone can see these three are in fact siblings (hence their surnames are the same), grouped up in their soul shriven gear having group fun on the landscape. Stop harassing them.

If only I could give x2 LOLs

Daggers

aeroch wrote: »

@Thechemicals‌ Why wouldn't Zeni encrypt their data? Is there a technical reason?

Thanks to all the posters for their insightful replies btw, this is morbidly fascinating

Speed. Encryption's quite fast these days, but when you have a game mechanic based around twitch gameplay (versus "cards" method in WoW etc), you need as little latency between action and reaction as you can get.

(I'm assuming they tested with and without encryption anyway, to get the best result. That may yet be a naive assumption )