Nightblade Tanks - Dont waste your time

Dudemanchu

I've seen quite a few people boasting their ultra sustain lifestealing and dodging Nightblade tank -concepts- lately, and i really need to just call it out.

Nightblade is literally, the worst class to play as a tank. They get no mitigation buffs, they get no AoE CC for trash, or AoE dmg for threat, their self healing is leagues less than dragon knight/sorc/templar and all of their self healing morphs only heal other people.

Nightblade is a more than capable DPS class with abilities that focus on super high single target DPS and good ult generation for clearing packs during boss fights as well.

Nightblade is a more than capable healer with really great passive healing that also applies debuffs.

They also fill a pretty awesome niche as a bruiser type DPS (cleave and ult spam) that also gives groups passive healing (quite a bit actually).

But they are absolutely garbage when it comes to tanking. I dont care how great it looks on paper, hold that concept up next to an equally idealized Dragonknight, Templar or even Sorc and you will see how poorly it preforms.

To break down a Nightblade tank, they basically have Siphoning Strikes and Strife which helps them self heal. The healing from strife is, minimal... like 20-80 heal ticks, and Siphoning Strikes (bugged atm) requires you to basic attack to gain the sustain. Which is fitting i suppose because thats all you'll be doing. Theres no AOE spam in the Nightblade tree, theres no AOE CC for magika in the Nightblade tree, and theres no AOE in the SnS tree. All the while you're not causing any AoE threat or CCing, Nightblades have no innate abilities to help mitigate damage.

And before you go thinking of all that awesome lifestealing (which is literally 1 ability that ticks for like 50 HP) realize that EVERY SINGLE CLASS has a better self sustain than nightblades. Dragonblood, Dark Exchange, the entire Restoring Light tree.

I understand these Shadowknight/Deathknight type characters are cool in concept, but pls think of others before you start (literally) plaguing dungeons with them as a Tank.



If you want to Lifesteal tank, make any other class, and become a vampire.

steinernein

What numbers do you have to back up your claims?

Hodorius

You are wrong.
You just described the abilities that are usless for tanking and did not mention any of the good ones...

Exept the "missing" CC... and again you are wrong!
Have you ever looked at this class? oO

Perhaps you are just a bad player and it did not work out for you...
In that case l2p!

With Siphoning attacks it´s hard to run out of stamina.
I do not care that I only have one magicka skill as I never run out of stamina.

Nightblade is a good tank if you know what you are doing.

Nugeneration

60% reduced damage ult. Not affected by caps.

Reduced damage % from shade. Not affected by caps.

100% up time on indomitable for caps.

Spamable 70% aoe snare from lotus fan.
AoE fear for CC.

Are you even looking at the right class? They have plenty more I could list but I only choose the ones that were exact opposite of what you described lol.

vegeta0585b14_ESO

OP has clearly never seen a nightblade passed level 16. Get a huge aoe cc, ulti that charges fast and buffs out mitigation so high we can stand in just about anything and not block just because we dont care.

I have tanked every instance to 50 so far with a 2 hander and the undaunted taunt. You also forgot to mention the buffs to healing recieved from NB.

So either, you have not even looked at the class, are trolling, or are just mad because your NB tank didn't work out from lack of skill.

edit* also like to add, siphoning strikes is most certainly not bugged. Nor is the morph leeching strikes, works just fine for me. It's also probably the best sustain ability in the game as EVERY HIT restores 4% hp, stam, magicka. with a chance to restore an even BIGGER chunk. Combined with haste and attack speed on your weapons, with swallow soul ticking while standing in refreshing path, I have had healers just swap to their dps weapon.

Nugeneration

I personally play a drain tank themed night blade. Did the same in beta as well. Tanking VR instances is no problem.

Use refreshing path, veil if it is up, lotus fan spam on trash. Mass hysteria if you ever need it which I never did with experienced groups.

Unstoppable keeps you at soft caps alone and due to leeching strikes you hardly ever need to manage your resources closely.

Dudemanchu

Nugeneration wrote: »

60% reduced damage ult. Not affected by caps.

Reduced damage % from shade. Not affected by caps.

100% up time on indomitable for caps.

Spamable 70% aoe snare from lotus fan.
AoE fear for CC.

Are you even looking at the right class? They have plenty more I could list but I only choose the ones that were exact opposite of what you described lol.

Literally none of that has to do with the people touting "lifesteal tanks".

quthth_ESO

Dudemanchu wrote: »

Nugeneration wrote: »

60% reduced damage ult. Not affected by caps.

Reduced damage % from shade. Not affected by caps.

100% up time on indomitable for caps.

Spamable 70% aoe snare from lotus fan.
AoE fear for CC.

Are you even looking at the right class? They have plenty more I could list but I only choose the ones that were exact opposite of what you described lol.

Literally none of that has to do with the people touting "lifesteal tanks".

That's because you went off topic, and rather than talk about why a drain tank didn't work, you started talking about why a Nightblade tank doesn't work.

And others have already stated why a NB drain tank is completely viable.

The best tanks I have had in groups are NBs, and DKs.

tommipalub16_ESO

@Dudemanchu
u must be jokin...all ur arguments against the nightblade tank are wrong, as other players already epxlained. And about ur recommendation:
"If you want to Lifesteal tank, make any other class, and become a vampire."
What? How? Please explain how a vampire tank can lifesteal more frequently than the nightblade ? The bats, well they are ultimate which means u should not depend on them, cause they aint ready all the time. The life drain? It's a 3 second cast where u cannot move! CANNOT MOVE! please tell me any situation where it is good for a tank(!) not being able to move!?!

Nugeneration

What are you taking about? Did you even read what you wrote?

Everything I listed was a direct reply referencing an ability in which you said nightblades couldn't tank because they didn't have said abilities.

Nobody claims they are self sustaining tanks who don't need healers... You made claims they can't tank due to lacking the abilities I listed NOT due to their self sustain.

They do have great self heals btw. more so than DK sorry to burst your bubble on that one too. No tank is going to "self sustain" vr10 content to not need any healing regardless of class.

P.S. going vampire with max fire resist you take 20% more damage roughly than a normal player without a point in fire resist. That well turn out great for a tank since fire isn't very common, right? Lol

Tamanous

Sounds like this argument is the classic "theory crafter vs real experience".

Sounds like the players who have actually experience NB tanking are winning ... go figure. Odd thing is nearly every negative point the OP made about NB tanking I discounted by knowing the actual class abilities and seeing them in action through vids. Hard to discount watching high level vet players playing NG tanks and kicking butt with them. Not sure what prompted the OP to post this unless he perhaps made a poor build and then launched to the forums to rant.

Drathmar

Nugeneration wrote: »

I personally play a drain tank themed night blade. Did the same in beta as well. Tanking VR instances is no problem.

Use refreshing path, veil if it is up, lotus fan spam on trash. Mass hysteria if you ever need it which I never did with experienced groups.

Indomitable keeps you at soft caps alone and due to leeching strikes you hardly ever need to manage your resources closely.

What do you mean by Indomitable, sorry I have looked through all the passives/skills/morphs and didn't see it and I am very much wanting to try a drain tank build as it seems it would be really good for soloing too. What is the exact build and is it viable for soloing?

Nugeneration

Unstoppable* sorry. Auto correct on my phone and I didn't proof read it. Heavy armor skill morph.

Nugeneration

Yes, it's very viable for soloing but don't expect super fast killing speeds like pure dps builds.

I'm currently at work for the next 48hrs and can't link a talent build. I'll post you my full build with a detailed description of why I chose each skill when I get back home either in this thread or via a forum pm which ever you prefer.

Drathmar

Alright, and ya I know it wouldn't be as fast but it should be a lot easier vs the groups of multiple enemies which I am starting to have trouble with at the moment using a DPS build. Even with one of my skill bars made for AoE the AoE just doesn't kill everyone fast enough it seems. PM is fine as well thanks.

Ysne58

Post it, that way others can see it.

Nugeneration

Ok, slow night at work and while I can't recreate my action bars due to using my phone I can post the skills I personally feel required to learn to cover all of your bases with all groups.

Armor I use generic 2 light/5 heavy.

Ultimates- Dawnbreaker
- Veil of Blades

Class abilities- Double Take
Lotus fan
Refreshing Path
Manifestation of Terror
Dark Shades
Swallow Soul
Leeching Strikes
Cloak

Weapon skills- Pierce Armor
Absorb Magic

Armor skills- Evasion
Unstoppable

Guild skills- Structured Entropy
Inner Beast

People maybe wandering why I listed both moves like evasion and blur. The simple answer is resource management. If I'm using magic heavy skills to help cover more AoE damage and control I prefer evasion. If I'm using my traditional bar I take blur. This same process applies to inner beast and pierce armor. With pierce armor being my first choice unless I need the range taunt and am leaving out lotus fan so I don't have access to teleport and instant pierce armor.

Some abilities are used for their support more than their actual affect in situations. Take structured entropy for example. It is one of the worst damage abilities in the game. It provides us with a constant 7% increased health, a slight heal buffer, and 10% more power to our next class skill. I usually lead with this attack followed by a swallow soul (I hear that's bugged now so I'll try and run tests later this week to confirm or not) or path.

What I consider my standard "bars" which I use most commonly with my normal groups where I'm not needed to cover any excess roles or utility I'll lost below. If you have any questions about my setup feel free to ask.

Bar1
Pierce/absorb magic/swallow soul/structured entropy/leeching strikes- Dawnbreaker

Bar2
Lotus fan/blur/path of darkness/unstoppable/dark shade- Veil of Blades

Bar 2 I just use for buffs on boss fights, but usually it is my go to bar for trash. I don't have any problems reactivating leeching strikes on weapon swaps, but it may be tedious for newer players. It becomes second nature though.

You should keep unstoppable/shades up 24/7. I use blur as my filler after entropy/swallow combo so it tends to have close if not 100% up time as well. With leeching strikes after you get cool down management down you should never have any resource problems. I'll throw out the occasional bash on bosses as well for extra damage when resources allow.

Notice with this setup I am rather weak on trash pulls, but I normally run with friends and we are built around each other. That's why I included all the extra abilities above to cover those bases if needed. Inner Beast for a ranged taunt, Manifestation for CC, you get the idea.

Best of luck to you if you choose to copy my build and feel free to ask if you need me to further explain any of my choices.

Cloak is also a wonderful ability to use and worth a notable mention. Especially at lower levels sometimes vanishing 2-3 times in a row to stall a boss helps new healers extremely well and can save your group from wipes.

Teloran

I agree that Nightblades lack a good class based AoE snare like the Sorcerer and DK, but you can make up for that with Bombard from the bow tree or Volcanic Rune from the mages guild tree. Templars are also in the same position.

You are also missing the Nightblade's most powerful tanking ability, Shadow Cloak. Not only does it give an insane amount of mitigation for a few seconds, it also does not reset agro. If anything was attacking you, it will stand there like a moron until you come out of stealth. This makes it a 2.5+ second stun that works on stun immune bosses. I haven't tested this myself, but it has been confirmed by several VR tanks on Tamriel Foundry.

Nugeneration

I listed cloak as well and covered that in the last paragraph. I personally don't need it with my groups but I did list and cover it as an honorable mention.

Teloran

Nugeneration wrote: »

I listed cloak as well and covered that in the last paragraph. I personally don't need it with my groups but I did list and cover it as an honorable mention.

My apologies. That was supposed to be addressed to the OP.

Nugeneration

I agree with you I think our AoE is tad weak, but in a balanced way. I can still teleport to any mob and aoe snare groups by 70%. You won't hold too much AoE aggro unless dawn is up, but you give the dps more than enough support to do their job safely.

Drekor

NB tanks are bloody amazing in vet content. They are exceptionally strong and really there only problem is a lack of a personal "oh ***" button which is easily remedied by ensuring your healer is a templar.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Cmon run Drain power and its morph... youl get so much ultimate youl constantly spend your time in devouring swarm. Add to that the damage increase and laugh about it... Now if I wanted to make a good joke about it I could also run a 2h weapon with cleave use drain power to initiate then start building ultimate with the first 2h weapon and constantly spend my time in ultimate mode... DONT underestimate nightblade

R0M2K

Why is called NightBLADE when to be succesfull you have to use a staff???

Shouldnt be renamed to NightSTAFF or something??

Seriously this class is a total mess.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Nightblade can use any weapon set or gearset it wants

Nightblade refer to the fact it is centralised around the dark arts of assassination and darker magical ability thus the ''night'' word in the class name. In oblivion a nightblade was technicaly a light armor user with destruction illusion spells teamed up with sneaking and alchemy... The nightblade is to the rogue type character what the battlemage is to the warrior. Technically nightblades are both master illusionist working with shadow spell to conceal and bend reality or the perceptions of others to their will and assassins/rogue thus theyre roles rank up from the magical tricksters to the shadowy thief.

In no way nightblades can be generalised as a 100% assassin class.

You should notice warrior/thief and mage technicaly DONT exist in ESO as class. Sorcerer is a form of battle mage, nightblade of assassin mage, Templar is a specialist of holy spell wich ranges from the Slayer to the regular priest and the dragonknight is a specialist of dragon based magic wich emphase on strength flame and resilience. In no way should we generalise them to stuck archtype like tank dps and healer they are way more then that.

Hodorius

Another low skilled player...
It´s not that class... it´s you who is messed up.

Of course you could ask what you are doing wrong and people would help you...
But first take a leap and admit to yourself you are doing it wrong.

Sleepwalker

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade can use any weapon set or gearset it wants... In no way should we generalise them to stuck archtype like tank dps and healer they are way more then that.

Kyubi is my hero.

fieldmarshall3neb18_ESO

NB has no aoe?...

Nugeneration

They do but not to the extent of dk/mage tanks by any means. That video isn't showcasing vr10 dungeons either. No tank is going to hold all the AoE aggro in vr10 instances or raids if I had to guess.

vegeta0585b14_ESO

Nugeneration wrote: »

Ok, slow night at work and while I can't recreate my action bars due to using my phone I can post the skills I personally feel required to learn to cover all of your bases with all groups.

Armor I use generic 2 light/5 heavy.

Ultimates- Dawnbreaker
- Veil of Blades

Class abilities- Double Take
Lotus fan
Refreshing Path
Manifestation of Terror
Dark Shades
Swallow Soul
Leeching Strikes
Cloak

Weapon skills- Pierce Armor
Absorb Magic

Armor skills- Evasion
Unstoppable

Guild skills- Structured Entropy
Inner Beast

People maybe wandering why I listed both moves like evasion and blur. The simple answer is resource management. If I'm using magic heavy skills to help cover more AoE damage and control I prefer evasion. If I'm using my traditional bar I take blur. This same process applies to inner beast and pierce armor. With pierce armor being my first choice unless I need the range taunt and am leaving out lotus fan so I don't have access to teleport and instant pierce armor.

Some abilities are used for their support more than their actual affect in situations. Take structured entropy for example. It is one of the worst damage abilities in the game. It provides us with a constant 7% increased health, a slight heal buffer, and 10% more power to our next class skill. I usually lead with this attack followed by a swallow soul (I hear that's bugged now so I'll try and run tests later this week to confirm or not) or path.

What I consider my standard "bars" which I use most commonly with my normal groups where I'm not needed to cover any excess roles or utility I'll lost below. If you have any questions about my setup feel free to ask.

Bar1
Pierce/absorb magic/swallow soul/structured entropy/leeching strikes- Dawnbreaker

Bar2
Lotus fan/blur/path of darkness/unstoppable/dark shade- Veil of Blades

Bar 2 I just use for buffs on boss fights, but usually it is my go to bar for trash. I don't have any problems reactivating leeching strikes on weapon swaps, but it may be tedious for newer players. It becomes second nature though.

You should keep unstoppable/shades up 24/7. I use blur as my filler after entropy/swallow combo so it tends to have close if not 100% up time as well. With leeching strikes after you get cool down management down you should never have any resource problems. I'll throw out the occasional bash on bosses as well for extra damage when resources allow.

Notice with this setup I am rather weak on trash pulls, but I normally run with friends and we are built around each other. That's why I included all the extra abilities above to cover those bases if needed. Inner Beast for a ranged taunt, Manifestation for CC, you get the idea.

Best of luck to you if you choose to copy my build and feel free to ask if you need me to further explain any of my choices.

Cloak is also a wonderful ability to use and worth a notable mention. Especially at lower levels sometimes vanishing 2-3 times in a row to stall a boss helps new healers extremely well and can save your group from wipes.

similar to what I use, but I went for degeneration over structured entropy as my HP was soft capped and healing for 115% of my weapon damage is quite nice

I tank with a 2h however, so have inner fire on there, as well as rally.

yelloweyedemon

yeah sure. Roll a NB and come back again.