What determins economy, item prices, material rpices, and such?

Nocturne Saint

Since we have no global auction house , It might be tough for some people cause the economy will vary by each guild store. So how are we going to know if we overpaid for something there? or the basic value of materials or items so we can judge whether it's a smart buy or destroying our virtual wallets

seanolan

Did you get what you wanted? Did the person who sold it get what s/he wanted? If both answers are yes, you got a good deal. Regardless of what person X paid for the same item. If your enjoyment of the game is based solely on getting the same deal as everyone else is, then I think you've missed the point of gaming.

Seriously, I am getting so tired of this concept of "establish standardized prices for everything" that every MMO player has. It's more artificial than anything else. You might as well have told ESO devs, "Set the prices on everything BEFORE we start playing." It's laziness. Seller has item. Buyer has money. Haggling occurs. Exchange happens. Both sides have value. Someone might be better at the game; great, they get better value. But it's not possible to LOSE the game because of this, so why must everyone stress so about "I got cheated out of X gold because I didn't know this guy only paid this much for the same item!"

It's not real money. It's not real goods. It will work itself out. And it won't have any consequences if it doesn't.

knightblaster

Vendor greens can provide some baseline for you.

understeer

Supply, demand, how much you can vendor it for and how much you can buy it from a vendor.

LastLaugh

seanolan wrote: »

Did you get what you wanted? Did the person who sold it get what s/he wanted? If both answers are yes, you got a good deal. Regardless of what person X paid for the same item. If your enjoyment of the game is based solely on getting the same deal as everyone else is, then I think you've missed the point of gaming.

Seriously, I am getting so tired of this concept of "establish standardized prices for everything" that every MMO player has. It's more artificial than anything else. You might as well have told ESO devs, "Set the prices on everything BEFORE we start playing." It's laziness. Seller has item. Buyer has money. Haggling occurs. Exchange happens. Both sides have value. Someone might be better at the game; great, they get better value. But it's not possible to LOSE the game because of this, so why must everyone stress so about "I got cheated out of X gold because I didn't know this guy only paid this much for the same item!"

It's not real money. It's not real goods. It will work itself out. And it won't have any consequences if it doesn't.

I strongly disagree. If you woke up in a foreign country tomorrow with no way of knowing what the exchange rate was, would you merrily start throwing your money around? Or would you try to figure out what the typical range is for the items you want?

If I unknowingly pay the equivalent of $300 for a sandwich, I got what I wanted but when I later figure out that sandwiches tend to retail locally for $5-$10 I will not feel happy about the transaction. This is the type of situation that the OP is trying to avoid.

There isn't a set price for sandwiches in real life, but you probably have an idea of the range you'd expect to pay for them. This is because you have seen enough sandwich vendors to compare prices.

The atrocious guild store system feels like waking up in a distant land with no clue whether the one sandwich seller you can find at that time is ripping you off or not. There may be other sandwich vendors but they are impossible to locate due to the country's appalling infrastructure.

nicknogueira

A possible solution to this issue is simply watching the zone chats. You can get an idea of how much items sell for by simply looking at how players sell them. If you notice that a certain player is spamming the same item over and over again and hasn't sold that certain item, you can probably guess that either no one wants the item (which is highly improbable, because every item in TESO has an use, be that deconstructing for mats, leveling skills, improvement items, etc) or the price of the item is to high for people to buy it (supply and demand). Anyway, you should be able to get an idea of what the items/service sells for by simply observing the pattern of transactions made by other players in the zone chat. Hope that helped!

LastLaugh

nicknogueira wrote: »

A possible solution to this issue is simply watching the zone chats. You can get an idea of how much items sell for by simply looking at how players sell them. If you notice that a certain player is spamming the same item over and over again and hasn't sold that certain item, you can probably guess that either no one wants the item (which is highly improbable, because every item in TESO has an use, be that deconstructing for mats, leveling skills, improvement items, etc) or the price of the item is to high for people to buy it (supply and demand). Anyway, you should be able to get an idea of what the items/service sells for by simply observing the pattern of transactions made by other players in the zone chat. Hope that helped!

There is a huge amount of fluctuation, though. This may be partly due to the newness of the game but it makes it difficult to decide what a realistic price range is.

An AH or even efficient search functions on guild stores would help by enabling players to easily compare prices.

Asasinka

From the philosophical point of view...
Just as in "real world", everything about item price is purely abstract, nothing like "real price" exists, it solely depends on supply and demand, which occurs in volatile environment and depends mostly on raw material availability, number of subjects involved in its obtaining and treatment and effort invested in it (mostly a matter of time spent), which in the end influence each other because "end user goods" often consist of chains of these variables.
Currency hardness on the other side depends on amount of players involved in marketing, gold drop rate and value, amount of time and style played, etc.
Simply total gold amount, its distribution, plus the will to spend it.
Global economy would be far more complicated by speculators and other people which artificially affect item value in order to profit.
The price You are looking for can be obtained only by long term market watching, since it's the matter of long term settling and approval. Noone can guesstimate that right now.
Since there's no global market, there's no global price, buyers make the price in market chunks which will be highly volatile depending on aspects written above and budget size of chunk members.
Until there's a global marketplace for it to settle, there's no need for our "real world" lowest price hunt.
I can, for example, give You the things You need for free, so there's allways someone who gives things out cheaper, and if You don't get it for free, You can allways be feeling bad about what price You paid.
The widely accepted price, as seen in "real world", is caused by people mass which act as herd. The lowest price desire stems from our internal inclination to perfect world arrangement.
Simply put, if the world was perfect place, no money would be ever needed. Everyone will be doing his best and give it to others when they need it for free, because doing something for money equals to doing something for nothing.
If everyone did the things he's good in for free, just because of the good feeling when You make someone happy, everyone will be happy and there will be no place for pointless item cumulation just because items will have no price for those who don't need it.
It's interesting how everyone today clings to artificial construct called money.
Just buy it if it's worth it or sell it priced as the buyer expect, what is a matter of trial and error.

Viblo

A beer at a ballpark costs $8. The same beer if you bought it from a store might cost $1.50. And you complain about the game's economy. lol

huntgod_ESO

Movie refreshments would be a better example, except that you are talking apples and oranges since the ballpark and theatre are closed markets where the venue controls the price and there is no competing market.

The game does place a value on many items when you go to list them, that is the baseline most players go by.

For materials it's generally 8-12gp each, so stacks are 800-1200gp.

Green items, I wouldn't bother unless they are set pieces, and if it's a desirable set, like Warlock, you can usually sell that in zone much easier.

alphawolph

Buyer sets the price always.

Merlin13KAGL

LastLaugh wrote: »

I strongly disagree. If you woke up in a foreign country tomorrow with no way of knowing what the exchange rate was, would you merrily start throwing your money around? Or would you try to figure out what the typical range is for the items you want?

If I unknowingly pay the equivalent of $300 for a sandwich, I got what I wanted but when I later figure out that sandwiches tend to retail locally for $5-$10 I will not feel happy about the transaction. This is the type of situation that the OP is trying to avoid.

Two things:

1. You always have the option to go find your own sandwich...(You rarely have to buy anything in this game...)
2. If you woke up tomorrow in a foreign country, you need to either lay off the Sujamma, find some new Guildmates, or pay that guy from the Dark Brotherhood on time every time (Next time, you lose a finger!)!

rtx

Asasinka wrote: »

Simply put, if the world was perfect place, no money would be ever needed. Everyone will be doing his best and give it to others when they need it for free, because doing something for money equals to doing something for nothing.
If everyone did the things he's good in for free, just because of the good feeling when You make someone happy, everyone will be happy and there will be no place for pointless item cumulation just because items will have no price for those who don't need it.
It's interesting how everyone today clings to artificial construct called money.
Just buy it if it's worth it or sell it priced as the buyer expect, what is a matter of trial and error.

Best post I've ever read!

AlexDougherty

LastLaugh wrote: »

I strongly disagree. If you woke up in a foreign country tomorrow with no way of knowing what the exchange rate was, would you merrily start throwing your money around? Or would you try to figure out what the typical range is for the items you want?

I would be throwing money about in a blind panic trying to get back to Britian.

Jeremy

Nocturne Saint wrote: »

Since we have no global auction house , It might be tough for some people cause the economy will vary by each guild store. So how are we going to know if we overpaid for something there? or the basic value of materials or items so we can judge whether it's a smart buy or destroying our virtual wallets

You won't. That's the simple answer to your question.

It's the price you pay when you have a poorly-designed economy that lacks the foundation for market-based pricing.

All I can suggest is that your join us in our efforts asking for them to improve this game's economic system

Viblo

I believe this is exactly the system the developers wanted. They did not want a fixed global price for items. They did not want a one stop shop. With that being said I also imagine they didn't want the incompleteness of what the current guild stores are with functionality. Guild stores were put in towards the very end of beta and there was very limited use of them. They were put in very rushed. Should they have postponed the entire game because Guild Stores were unpolished? Some will say yes and some will say no. We have what we have. Things will be improved concerning the guild stores but there will never be a global auction house.

Arsvita

Determination relies upon supply and demand. Also upon the desire and how far someone is willing to go.

If I have a product and no one else does, and if that product is desired, I own the market and can literally ask anything that I want.

If it is desired, but there is a glut in the market, I am more at the buyers mercy to unload the product.

Tannakaobi

Nocturne Saint wrote: »

Since we have no global auction house , It might be tough for some people cause the economy will vary by each guild store.

That's the point and purpose. The value of materials or items is an individual thought dependent on how much you have. How much you want it and of course how much you can buy it for.

I'm not against faction auction houses, but the system is fine how it is. The search functions needs an overhaul however and this is the real problem. The guild system would work much better if you could see all the guilds items at any one time. Filters are a must.

Trenchfoot

LastLaugh wrote: »

nicknogueira wrote: »

A possible solution to this issue is simply watching the zone chats. You can get an idea of how much items sell for by simply looking at how players sell them. If you notice that a certain player is spamming the same item over and over again and hasn't sold that certain item, you can probably guess that either no one wants the item (which is highly improbable, because every item in TESO has an use, be that deconstructing for mats, leveling skills, improvement items, etc) or the price of the item is to high for people to buy it (supply and demand). Anyway, you should be able to get an idea of what the items/service sells for by simply observing the pattern of transactions made by other players in the zone chat. Hope that helped!

There is a huge amount of fluctuation, though. This may be partly due to the newness of the game but it makes it difficult to decide what a realistic price range is.

An AH or even efficient search functions on guild stores would help by enabling players to easily compare prices.

Completely agree. Having the ability to type in search for my inventory but not the store itself is just absurd. Laughably so. The guild store design is like baby's first mmo auction house.

TheBull

What the buyer will pay.

IronMaiden_burnout

TheBull wrote: »

What the buyer will pay.

What the online gold buyer will pay you mean.

wafffllesss

I never understood why, for example, dwarven oil cost 400 each, and you need about 5 for 100% chance of success ( 2k already ) then you use some ingots to craft a sword, use a gem to put a trait on it, and sell for 400g... (Example made on level 30 superior "blue" weapons... )

Edit: And I'm not even counting the honing stones used before...

Jeremy

wafffllesss wrote: »

I never understood why, for example, dwarven oil cost 400 each, and you need about 5 for 100% chance of success ( 2k already ) then you use some ingots to craft a sword, use a gem to put a trait on it, and sell for 400g... (Example made on level 30 superior "blue" weapons... )

Yeah dwarf oil is one of many items that are over-priced right now.

The reason for this is because people are hoarding all of their improvement items since there is no reliable way to access them on the market. This dries up the supply and lets people gouge desperate buyers with unreasonable costs.

Can really suck for players who are trying to craft themselves blue armor while leveling up.

alphawolph

Jeremy wrote: »

wafffllesss wrote: »

I never understood why, for example, dwarven oil cost 400 each, and you need about 5 for 100% chance of success ( 2k already ) then you use some ingots to craft a sword, use a gem to put a trait on it, and sell for 400g... (Example made on level 30 superior "blue" weapons... )

Yeah dwarf oil is one of many items that are over-priced right now.

The reason for this is because people are hoarding all of their improvement items since there is no reliable way to access them on the market. This dries up the supply and lets people gouge desperate buyers with unreasonable costs.

Can really suck for players who are trying to craft themselves blue armor while leveling up.

Yeah I'm sitting on tons of stuff cause i know it's irreplaceable.

Demli

What!? People aren't selling rare craft items that they may need later down the line? Outrageous! Almost like demand has a direct impact on price... seems broken.

Asawasa

alphawolph wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

wafffllesss wrote: »

I never understood why, for example, dwarven oil cost 400 each, and you need about 5 for 100% chance of success ( 2k already ) then you use some ingots to craft a sword, use a gem to put a trait on it, and sell for 400g... (Example made on level 30 superior "blue" weapons... )

Yeah dwarf oil is one of many items that are over-priced right now.

The reason for this is because people are hoarding all of their improvement items since there is no reliable way to access them on the market. This dries up the supply and lets people gouge desperate buyers with unreasonable costs.

Can really suck for players who are trying to craft themselves blue armor while leveling up.

Yeah I'm sitting on tons of stuff cause i know it's irreplaceable.

i laugh at you all that are crafting blue and above items while leveling up. just save it for when you hit max level or need to clear out bank space. not much difference between green and blue.

oh and if you put points into the improvement passive for crafting its 3 blues not 5 to get 100% chance.

Tarukmockto

Some people just like to have pretty things.

Gwarok

What determines economy, item prices, material pices, and such?

Usually it all starts out with some "kool" kid asking a ridiculous ~150k gold for the
[insert Epic Pixel Crack Name here] he just looted on launch day, then the community beats that price down as more people loot the same item by undercutting him to a reasonable price that is acceptable to the rest of the community. The rest is all just simple Economics 101: Supply and Demand

SadisticSavior

Nocturne Saint wrote: »

Since we have no global auction house , It might be tough for some people cause the economy will vary by each guild store. So how are we going to know if we overpaid for something there? or the basic value of materials or items so we can judge whether it's a smart buy or destroying our virtual wallets

Short answer: There is no objective way of determining the value of anything. Any value is arbitrary and probably temporary. Supply and Demand determines the value, and the game is still too new for supply to be determined for a lot of stuff.

You can try price checking in Zone chat. Or looking at auction forms online to see what stuff is going for. If someone asked me in Zone chat what I think common motifs should sell for I would say 400GP...but I know for sure people have sold them for more. Even recently. So it';s all completely subjective.

If you are not confident as to what something is worth, do not buy or sell it. If you are desperate and can't wait to research...well...it is worth whatever you're willing to pay for it.

SadisticSavior

Asawasa wrote: »

i laugh at you all that are crafting blue and above items while leveling up. just save it for when you hit max level or need to clear out bank space. not much difference between green and blue.

I actually use all the blue crap I am crafting. And it is not like blue and green stuff is rare anyway.

freddy_hgnrb18_ESO

Once the is an apparent 'established price' for items - such as improvement materials for crafting (Hemming, Turpen, Elegant Lining, Dreugh Wax)

Would it be proper for a player to work out a selling cost of an item, based on how many of each improvement material has been involved in making that item?

And if so - should someone who just happens to find an item of the same quality be able to sell said item for the same price margin? - even though none of their own improvement materials went into making it?

Master Crafter - being able to make a set of gear from an 8 Trait set, in any racial style, and being able to improve those white items to green/blue/purple/gold - should (in theory) be able to demand more for an item than someone who happens to open a chest and find an item of similar quality - the reward for effort and dedication should outweigh LUCK

How one evaluates the cost of Hemming, Turpen etc is beyond me. I see prices fluctuating regularly.