Dual Wield tree is lackluster

Drachdhar

Yep.. DKs and Templars are incredibly strong classes...
To bad my main is neither...
//Nor a sorc for that matter

Which is entirely the point. The vids posted earlier showing someone soloing Dark Anchors and whatnot at Veteran is one of the strongest classes in the game, which hardly espouses the supposed awesomeness of Dual Wield, since its the DK skills which allow such a thing to occur.

Crescent

Bow nightblade is ridiculously strong as well. The thing with the nightblade is that he has lesser melee sustain so their playstyle essentially is burst the crap out of something with your hard hitting class skills, and back out into bow usage. Which doesn't lend itself that much to dual wield unless in a dungeon where NB dual wield is actually very potent and you have a group keeping you alive.

In fact as a sorcerer I sort of wish I had gone nightblade. Nightblade does the magical melee mix with stealth much better, and has a lot more burst than melee sorc which is basically more of a middle high sustained DPS class with some support.

But this game's leveling takes so ridiculously long that once you commit you don't want to go through it all over again lol. So I've learned to love sorc even if I look at nightblades with longing every other time .

Never a DK or Templar, though. I hate fire and I hate paladin radiant light themes so those don't fit with me

Reykice

Crescent wrote: »

Bow nightblade is ridiculously strong as well. The thing with the nightblade is that he has lesser melee sustain so their playstyle essentially is burst the crap out of something with your hard hitting class skills, and back out into bow usage. Which doesn't lend itself that much to dual wield unless in a dungeon where NB dual wield is actually very potent and you have a group keeping you alive.

In fact as a sorcerer I sort of wish I had gone nightblade. Nightblade does the magical melee mix with stealth much better, and has a lot more burst than melee sorc which is basically more of a middle high sustained DPS class with some support.

But this game's leveling takes so ridiculously long that once you commit you don't want to go through it all over again lol. So I've learned to love sorc even if I look at nightblades with longing every other time .

Never a DK or Templar, though. I hate fire and I hate paladin radiant light themes so those don't fit with me

IF you do 500 dps via auto attacks on DK you can also use Surge + bound armaments + 2 pets(another 100 dps provided you have high magicka) and you will be doing 600+(pets don`t show in damage parsers but still) and self heal...

The only thing is i`m finding it hard to believe you do 500 dps just via heavy attacks... it would be too good!

CaptainSilverbrow

I agree with pretty much every point posited in this ITT thread, except regarding Blood Craze, I'll explain why momentarily.

WW: Very misunderstood skill, but given the other succinct and superb posts with it in regard, I feel I don't need to, myself, expand on that further. It kind of reminds of WoW'adin's Divine Storm around the end of Wrath, sans the infiniteness.

Blood Craze: I like it for its cost, bleed, and healing (when morphed). I use a build (Templar) that ultimately exchanges as much damage for health as I can grab, which is why I'm faring better than I hear most Templars are in the VR zones. As such, this suits me quite well. Its damage isn't tremendous, but it's stellar as it can be spammed if need be for relatively little cost. To make this an attractive skill, enable the bleed to stack up to three or five times. As it can be spammed, this skill is ideally suited to just such a boon, and the DoT ticking for greater increments a second (and by extension, providing more healing) would be fabulous, in rainbow text.

Flurry: I loved it before VR1; now I want those skill points back. I mean, it's not bad at 477 damage and an 18% weapon swing boost over six seconds, but it doesn't scale well at all (it's certainly no Biting Jabs), and it's hard to justify the cost anymore. The problem here is scaling, which is, to say, bad. Very bad, but that's a universal concern at the moment.

Sparks: If I can find uses for it, I'm sure near all of us can. It pretty much requires no further officiation, melee attacks miss for 4 seconds.

Twin Blade and Blunt: It's bonuses are great, but I've two issues with its situational awareness and efficacy
Maces: How can we tell when a target is "heavily armored", apart from it looking like a tank on legs? "Oh, hey, there's Doctor Doom, better break out the mace. Oh wait, you mean to tell me that was light armor? Weh-elp...".
Axes: This scales about as well as a morbidly obese man committing to climb Mt. Everest in the nude. When I capped it off at around 42, its bleed did something like 50 damage; at VR1, it inflicts an immaculate 65 damage over ten seconds, half the time. I never, ever want to use an axe over a sword or dagger; ever. If that was the plan, well done.
Also, prompt clarification is needed: Does the effect stack if you've two of the same weapon type equipped? Are two swords worth an additional 5% damage? The wording is vague. We could easily figure this out on our own, but an official word would be nice for those of us less inclined (I'm personally of the more inclined persuasion, but that's beside the point).

I suppose one of the major issues is how underwhelming it feels, but hey, address functional issues before endeavoring to crank up the #swag, I say.

Rhythmic

Yes DW is suuuch lackluster....

I guess i just leave it here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8krLrYX2ugo

Crescent

DW is strong but tbh your video is not an example of it. Most of your kills have to do with softening someone with the bow and if they get close or you can get close, what kills them is the class abilities you used for NB.

I doubt you would miss flurry that much, or even blood craze compared to losing the other slots on your bar that had nothing to do with the DW tree.

Rhythmic

Crescent wrote: »

DW is strong but tbh your video is not an example of it. Most of your kills have to do with softening someone with the bow and if they get close or you can get close, what kills them is the class abilities you used for NB.

I doubt you would miss flurry that much, or even blood craze compared to losing the other slots on your bar that had nothing to do with the DW tree.

Maybe its because most of clips was not 1v1?

DW is amazing in 1v1 fights.
Small hint:
1.Go to melee range.
2.Use sparks.100% damage reduction from melee opponents.If enemy dont have ranged weapon(like braindead spambashers) - you win.
*Enemy happen to have ranged weapon;
3.Use hidden blade/other slow to preven enemy from kiting.DW have better damage in melee than any ranged weapon.
4.Use rending slashes and/or flurry to do a melee burst.They have a very low cost,so you can easily spend your stamina for sprints,CC breaks or roll doge's.
5.Whirlwind - 11range execute?
6.Win.

You're welcome.

CaptainSilverbrow

Rhythmic wrote: »

Yes DW is suuuch lackluster.... i'll just le toast a le Bow/DW combo vidja that has le little to do with the le topic being discussed here in this le thread

Fixed that for you. I know, bows are pretty good. What does marinating enemies in poison-dipped arrows and finishing them off with one or two one-hand weapon swings have to do with the DW skill line being lackluster? Does, eh... does the translation get lost somewhere in your native tongue, m8?

Foxhunt

So can someone with considerable knowledge help me figure out what 5 skills I should be using for my Khajiit NB as VR1? I am asking for advice because I don't seem to be as effective as I used to be. Hell, in PvP a *** level 19 destroyed me (Knocked me down, then did something where I couldn't move or dodge or use any abilities except sit there being hit, and then right as I could move again knock me down again [and repeat] - so essentially I had no chance to fight back as this guy ripped into me). Maybe it's something to do with my skill, but I would like to get the most out of my class and I just don't feel like that's what I'm doing right now.

I will list the skills I am currently using in order on my skill bar:
1) Strife (morphed)
2) Flurry (morphed)
3) Teleport strike (Morphed)
4) Aspect of terror (Been switching out #4 a lot, don't know what to use)
5) The Alliance War Assault skill that makes you move faster (forgot name of it)
6 Ultimate) Death Stroke (Morphed)

My DW is 50 and I have all passives unlocked. I also use a bow and have nearly all passives unlocked. Please give me advice on a better set up than what I have, and in which order the skills should be on my skillbar, as I feel under powered while I am fighting (Not so much in PvE, but considerably often in PvP). I also use dual swords for the additional damage with the ruffian passive.

Rhythmic

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

Fixed that for you. I know, bows are pretty good. What does marinating enemies in poison-dipped arrows and finishing them off with one or two one-hand weapon swings have to do with the DW skill line being lackluster? Does, eh... does the translation get lost somewhere in your native tongue, m8?

Nice comment from a person who obviously didn't watched it.
But anyway...DW is not like other weapon trees,which more about burst than anything else.Dw is about fight control.DW is requires brain,and momentum.
I wrote alot in this thread,trying to explain how it should be played.But seems like "players" like you cares about my grammar more than about their poor skill cap.

Now i understand the type of people who still whine about DW "lackluster" after all been said here....


..oh and i'm pleased you have no more arguments instead of finding faults in my english which obviously is not my common language.If you'll learn russian or ukrainan,i'm sure we can discuss about that,but it will not change the fact you bad at counting swings and, more likely, bad at this game.

Crescent

Rhythmic wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

DW is strong but tbh your video is not an example of it. Most of your kills have to do with softening someone with the bow and if they get close or you can get close, what kills them is the class abilities you used for NB.

I doubt you would miss flurry that much, or even blood craze compared to losing the other slots on your bar that had nothing to do with the DW tree.

Maybe its because most of clips was not 1v1?

DW is amazing in 1v1 fights.
Small hint:
1.Go to melee range.
2.Use sparks.100% damage reduction from melee opponents.If enemy dont have ranged weapon(like braindead spambashers) - you win.
*Enemy happen to have ranged weapon;
3.Use hidden blade/other slow to preven enemy from kiting.DW have better damage in melee than any ranged weapon.
4.Use rending slashes and/or flurry to do a melee burst.They have a very low cost,so you can easily spend your stamina for sprints,CC breaks or roll doge's.
5.Whirlwind - 11range execute?
6.Win.

You're welcome.

I understand 1v1 in PvP and roaming is fun, because I hate zergs too.

But in your entire post you failed to acknowledge any scenario which is not 1v1. Which happens to be most of PvE (where DW and any stamina weapon's aoe for that matter is terrible).

And Flurry simply is not good. Try doing chained heavy melee attacks with DW it'll actually do more damage than flurry in a smaller time window.

In vet rank pve, or any form of content where AoE is important, you will need to complement DW a lot with AoE class skills if you have them, or destruction staff if you don't.

And a lot of the shortcoming with the weapon could simply be fixed by increasing the damage of both Whirlwind and Ember Explosion. Whirlwind is great as an execute, but you need that pack of 4-5 veteran mobs to go below 50% for it to start doing any respectable damage.

Niminion

Flying blade gets the nerf in patch 1.1 raising the stamina cost

Foxhunt wrote: »

So can someone with considerable knowledge help me figure out what 5 skills I should be using for my Khajiit NB as VR1? I am asking for advice because I don't seem to be as effective as I used to be. Hell, in PvP a *** level 19 destroyed me (Knocked me down, then did something where I couldn't move or dodge or use any abilities except sit there being hit, and then right as I could move again knock me down again [and repeat] - so essentially I had no chance to fight back as this guy ripped into me). Maybe it's something to do with my skill, but I would like to get the most out of my class and I just don't feel like that's what I'm doing right now.

I will list the skills I am currently using in order on my skill bar:
1) Strife (morphed)
2) Flurry (morphed)
3) Teleport strike (Morphed)
4) Aspect of terror (Been switching out #4 a lot, don't know what to use)
5) The Alliance War Assault skill that makes you move faster (forgot name of it)
6 Ultimate) Death Stroke (Morphed)

My DW is 50 and I have all passives unlocked. I also use a bow and have nearly all passives unlocked. Please give me advice on a better set up than what I have, and in which order the skills should be on my skillbar, as I feel under powered while I am fighting (Not so much in PvE, but considerably often in PvP). I also use dual swords for the additional damage with the ruffian passive.

Replace Flurry with Flying Blade, win.

CaptainSilverbrow

Rhythmic wrote: »

Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem, zero evidence I even play DW, ad homin--...

I'm glad your best "argument" is blowing my suggestion waaay out of context, implying that was an argument to begin with, moving the goalposts (defend your skill!), strawmen ("muh bad English" diatribe is something like half your post), and presenting, again, why the word "skill" has been deprived of all meaning and standing within the international MMO lexicon, and I mean amongst Anglo players, too. That last remark wasn't the keystone of my post, don't focus on it like it was.

Now, I watched the video; did you? The bow dominates the guy's strategy, not his stabbidy-stabbies. Both skill lines rely on heavy burst (which is damage not necessarily enormous, but in rapid procession), but that player leans more toward the bow, in that he gobbles down the meat and potatoes of their health bar before reaching him, leaving the Dee-Dubyahs (DWs) for dessert. It's just a smart, hybrid strategy. You never posited anything but "look at this video, your collective gripes are unfounded!", dude. Most here aren't concerned with it being wholly ineffective so much as being boring, and preferring only certain skills over the rest. I posit that most, however, haven't played with each skill proper in varying situations, which about all the VR grind is good for: a reprieve from our preferred, tested strategies and combat archetypes to experience and play with other styles and ideas.

Want to try anything more than assaulting my character?