Is the game economy working for you?

ElliottXO

No

luizterra23 wrote: »

The zone chat have been doomed to become a trade spam site, because there is no efficient (neither cheap) way to trade your own goods. The result of it is the huge amount of wasted items that we throw away because farming from mobs is largelly more efficient than trading goods for acquiring gold. The economy becomes staggered, and the fun of collecting and crafting goods is lost along with it's purpose.
Either way, If it's not supposed to have some serverwide Auction House in the game, at least the COD feature should be exempt of charges, and the Guild Store having it's posting fee cutted by half.

It becomes a paradigm that we should not be allowed to spam chat as while the game pushes us of doing so.

Agree. Drops are high, demand is low. Convenience is low. It's almost impossible to sell anything.

I try it one time in the zone chat, then I vendor or deconstruct it. Then I move on.

Medwin

Yes

Is it working? Yes, but could it be better? Oh hell yes. We need AHs the guild store need to be better, I feel like I can't search through them well enough it is really hard to find what I am looking for. I'll see glyphs looking at all the items but when I actually use the search to find them I see none.

Musonius

No

As the OP, I left the question somewhat vague as the economic system in place is outside the norm, we are in very early stages of the game and, while the system seems promising, it also has many potential problems. I do understand the reasoning behind not having an universal AH and the significant fees associated with guild store and COD sales, but I am not convinced this system will work out well. It is clear the devs are hard set against an AH so I do not believe one will be implemented, barring a sever loss of subs attributed mainly to that but the system does need some improvements.

A huge and probably the easiest improvement would be making the UI more functional. The sell tab in the GS has a keyword search but the buy tab only has categories. A player will have, at most, with all container upgrades, a few hundred items they need to look through to sell but if the 500 member limit on guilds is correct, a potential of 15,000 items to look through for purchase. How did this design get through final approval?

The thing that concerns me the most though is the small market size most players will have to try to sell to. From what I read about beta testing and the limited experience with the game so far, it seems holding onto a keep to have the public GS for any length of time is rare. There will be no stability for most players in a GS if this is the case. This public GS model also encourages almost nothing but mega guilds where players will want to be in maxed or almost maxed out guilds of the most active players in order to maximize what little market they have. Allowing guilds to get together in consortia for the sole purpose of trading, no chat cross over, banking or other rights or obligations would help smaller guilds exist and increase the available market for all players. If the devs feel they need to keep these consortia limited on the total number of players they could even set a limit and they may feel that the 500 limit of current guilds is enough but I fear it is far short of being enough for a viable market. Something along the line of several thousand are probably needed.

PlagueMonk

No

The problem with this question is......

On the one hand I am crafting, deconstructing, inventing etc just fine but unless I join a trading guild I am doomed to scream, "WTT/WTS" in zone chat (which i find annoying and refuse to do). I also have little desire to join a guild(s) just to buy/trade. I don't want to spend all of my time trading with a mere fraction of people or spending all of my time aimlessly browsing. So for me there really is no economy.

Why there isn't an auction house boggles my mind because of how worthwhile and efficient they are. There are times when doing something just to be different from the others isn't the best idea.

Woenprom

Yes

^^
Typical economy of mmorpg during its first days.

I am a member of 3 400+ members trading guilds.
Economy is not perfect, but it's already working no matter what you thinking.

Zerl

I'm going to give it a month or 2 before I cast an opinion on it.

It's really too early to tell to be honest.

ArRashid

No

No, because those few *** that exploited their way to 50 in one day now have monopole on whole market, selling daedric sets and all kinds of ***, dictating prices, making tenths of thousands gold, and we're sitting here killing skeevers to have enough for repairs, because we are too good to try to rip off our own friends in a wicked thing called "Guild Store" (that rips YOU off as well by taking about 30-40% of your profit anyway)

I'm level 32 and I still don't have a horse, because virtually everything I make is taken away from me for those absurdly overpriced repairs. I'm stuck at 11k gold since everything I make goes to repairs, even though I do not die and as archer monsters almost never hit me, yet for some *** reason my gear still breaks as if I was setting it on fire every half an hour..

Delte

Yes

Yes it is working for me, joined a trading guild and already sold some items on there. Not had to buy anything yet though.

Krym

Yes

ElliottXO wrote: »

luizterra23 wrote: »

The zone chat have been doomed to become a trade spam site, because there is no efficient (neither cheap) way to trade your own goods. The result of it is the huge amount of wasted items that we throw away because farming from mobs is largelly more efficient than trading goods for acquiring gold. The economy becomes staggered, and the fun of collecting and crafting goods is lost along with it's purpose.
Either way, If it's not supposed to have some serverwide Auction House in the game, at least the COD feature should be exempt of charges, and the Guild Store having it's posting fee cutted by half.

It becomes a paradigm that we should not be allowed to spam chat as while the game pushes us of doing so.

Agree. Drops are high, demand is low. Convenience is low. It's almost impossible to sell anything.

I try it one time in the zone chat, then I vendor or deconstruct it. Then I move on.

that's where I think the question is misleading. the economy itself is fine, the systems surround it are not. we need A LOT of filters for the guild store for example.

we also have to see how it works out with the guild stores in the pvp area later.

Jitterbug

Ask not what the trade guild system can do for you, but what you can do for the trade guild system.

Kililin

No

Crafting and economy is very good in my opinion, i like research, no AH, being able to craft useful items that will surely sell later after the levelling phase.

Still i voted NO, because economy will break because there is no item decay.
So everything that is made stays in the game, and most of it will not be bound to characters. (Mind you, i think no bound items is good)

So items will accumulate in game, demand will vanish.

I really hope to be wrong, but i do not see how this should be working in the long run.

Laerian

No

What economy?, Except for the people spamming the chat, I haven't seen any "economy" yet.

I'm only playing to buy horse and bag upgrades for my chars lol. My loot goes to the vendor/trash/decon.

Not interested in forced guild membership for store access; anyways, items don't sell well as I've heard. Not interested in direct trading either, I don't like/have time to spam the chat.

KiroElmarok

Yes

Please. No Auction house. You'll all regret it.

Rosamond

No

Kayvee wrote: »

I really do not enjoy the fact that I'm required to join a guild in order to access the equivalent of an auction house.

Edit: repair costs are astronomical. I usually just replace the piece instead of repairing because it's simply too punitive.

Rosamond

No

I could not agree more with Kayvee. I love this game, but it is NOT fun to have to struggle with 'getting rid' of stuff by selling it for the crumbs NPC vendors will give me or just destoying it outright. I refuse to spam the channel with sales pitches, and that kind of selling is poor role play. Where in the wilds of the countryside do you suddenly tap into a chat channel and offer up your newly acquired iron cuirass?

The answer is a server wide broker/auction system that everyone can benefit from. Many players would love to have the armor and other things I can make and would sell at a reasonable price if only I could? Please don't direct me to a guild, I really don't want to charge my guildees for crafted items. Please let us have a server wide broker market where we can post things for sale to all players, and PLEASE make it searchable. A simple data base can solve this problem.

Turrican

Give change a chance people. Or go to one of the other generic mmos where you can be spoon fed the same experience yet again.

Willow

No

They need to add a trade channel if they are not going to have auction houses. I have not joined any guilds just so i can trade.

I will give this system a chance though. I will make my stuff and sell to npc's and if I am in the mood ,will ask in zone if anyone wants to buy my items before I sell them to a npc.

anton1nh

No

Beryl wrote: »

No, for me personally it does not work.
I am not happy with:
- the present functionality of the Guild Stores (not enough filters, no search by name, no sort by price per item etc),
- the constant spam WTS in all zone chats,
- the ridiculously high fee for COD items or selling the in a Guild Store,
- high repair costs combined with small vendor price of items you loot.

I am still trying to adapt and find my spot here, but so far - no, for me the existing system does not work. It does not make me happy.

while i would certainly buy from my guild-mate before i buy from anyone else when what i am looking for is not on the guild store i am still going to have to spam chat. the guild is such a small part of the whole community that i often don't find what i am looking for. also it's possible to play the AH in different guilds buying cheap from one and selling higher from another. having a centralized auction house creates a fairer economy for both buyer and sellers.
(seeing the whole market instead of (a) small subsection(s) does that)

so far high repair cost haven't impacted me since i have my crafter create me a complete new set every two levels but i already noticed that those cost are completely out of whack when compared to selling prices of items.

ItsGlaive

Yes

Works absolutely fine for me. I browse the store before pricing my items up, things sell pretty quickly and making money isn't an issue. Only thing I'd improve on is more filters and a search box in the guild store - and fixing the bug with the 'materials' category showing everything listed in the store!

Jeremy

No

spencerfollowsb16_ESO wrote: »

Give change a chance people. Or go to one of the other generic mmos where you can be spoon fed the same experience yet again.

Adding an auction house would not make this game like all the others. Guild stores are basically just auction houses anyway. The only difference is they aren't nearly as good. So unless you are lucky and found a very effective guild store that allows you to buy what you need, the system is not going to be satisfactory.

What sets this game apart from other MMORPGs is its emphasis on exploration and questing (rather a constant instance grind), along with its unique combat and character building options. It's lack of a consolidated auction house is way down on that list if you ask me. And as long as players have to work to make gold to buy what the auction house is selling, I fail to see how that equates to being spoon fed.

Opioid

No

This game currently has no overarching "economy" to speak of. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of miniature sub-economies in all the various guild stores and zone chat in various shards/instances of all the zones.

While I can somewhat agree with some of the sentiment of people in this thread about auction houses being plagued by gold and item farmers, the problem with the guild store system the way it stands right now is that it's way too limited. A successful market economy needs to include as many people as possible. 500 people is nowhere near enough to create a true market as supply, demand and prices could be wildly different between each guild.

I am not overly familiar with the back-end infrastructure that it would require, but based on experience with other games like WoW and the now defunct Diablo 3 auction houses, it is entirely possible to implement an auction house on a large scale in this game as well, probably one each for the NA and EU megaservers. More people = more supply of items, more listings, more capability for consumers to actually have access to and purchase what they need without having to waste their time joining trading guilds and digging through the currently horrendous guild store interface, better prices for everyone as there will be thousands/hundreds of thousands/millions of potential sellers all competing for business. The more listings there are, the more quickly prices will stabilize and an actual economy will be born.

Just my opinion anyway, I'm sure there are plenty who will disagree with me.

Jeremy

No

Opioid wrote: »

This game currently has no overarching "economy" to speak of. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of miniature sub-economies in all the various guild stores and zone chat in various shards/instances of all the zones.

While I can somewhat agree with some of the sentiment of people in this thread about auction houses being plagued by gold and item farmers, the problem with the guild store system the way it stands right now is that it's way too limited. A successful market economy needs to include as many people as possible. 500 people is nowhere near enough to create a true market as supply, demand and prices could be wildly different between each guild.

I am not overly familiar with the back-end infrastructure that it would require, but based on experience with other games like WoW and the now defunct Diablo 3 auction houses, it is entirely possible to implement an auction house on a large scale in this game as well, probably one each for the NA and EU megaservers. More people = more supply of items, more listings, more capability for consumers to actually have access to and purchase what they need without having to waste their time joining trading guilds and digging through the currently horrendous guild store interface, better prices for everyone as there will be thousands/hundreds of thousands/millions of potential sellers all competing for business. The more listings there are, the more quickly prices will stabilize and an actual economy will be born.

Just my opinion anyway, I'm sure there are plenty who will disagree with me.

Yep, I totally agree.

The health of an economy is largely determined by the amount of people participating in it. Butchering the economy into many different markets is little different than shooting yourself in the foot. It's like a purposeful injury, and I don't understand the logic behind it at all.

Why would you not want a larger and more stable market?

KidKablam

Yes

I put "yes" because I make enough gold ingame to get what I need and a little of what I want without having so much that gold is devalued. That's what I consider "economy."

Some people have included things like upset over the guild bank and store system. I also would like to see that change, but I don't consider that "economy" as much as it's tools of how you use the economy.

So ultimately I agree with the other folks that the question isn't complete.

clocksstoppe

Yes

Evanis wrote: »

I belong to four trade guilds with hundreds of members each, but yet I find *one* bottle of dwarven oil to purchase at 500g. Sorry, but I only look stupid... No thanks... There is something *very* wrong with that and this example only underscores the problem. I think that

No, there is nothig wrong with that. crafting tempers are the hardest things to obtain and that is why nobody is selling theirs

Vafthrudnir

Yes

What I see til now is working for me, but it needs a lot of tweaking.
Charges for guild stores are much too high and I can't compare with other trade guilds. A maximum of 5 guilds with 500 players is also not satisfying on a so called megaserver. I don't like the global auktion house system neither but maybe some local markets in the main cities with an aditional trade skillline which allows you to offer 100 items per Skillpoint in a vendor.

Jeremy

No

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Evanis wrote: »

I belong to four trade guilds with hundreds of members each, but yet I find *one* bottle of dwarven oil to purchase at 500g. Sorry, but I only look stupid... No thanks... There is something *very* wrong with that and this example only underscores the problem. I think that

No, there is nothig wrong with that. crafting tempers are the hardest things to obtain and that is why nobody is selling theirs

This is exactly the problem. An economy like this encourages people to hoard anything rare that they may end up wanting. And I'm sure you know that concentrated wealth is harmful to any economy.

The system is just flawed and isn't going to work. Any social benefit it may add due to the need for players to manually trade with one another (which is dubious at best) is going to be far out-weighed by the lack of access and availability players are going to encounter.

Also the success or failure of players in a gaming economy should not depend on belonging to the right guild store. It should be based on their determination and willingness to work to afford the best stuff for sale. So not only does the system fail on practical terms, but moral ones as well

Opioid

No

@clocksstoppe The tempers really aren't all that uncommon once you start investing points into Metal Extraction. I got 2 grain solvents (purple) and probably 5 or 6 dwarven oils just from refining a bunch of orichalcum and ebony yesterday, and that's just with 2 points in extraction. Not to mention the random dwarven oils I get from deconstructing blue drops that aren't upgrades.

But that aside, I also am stockpiling all my tempering ingredients. I just don't see the point in wasting them on crafting while I'm still leveling and while I'm still getting fairly regular gear upgrades from drops and quest rewards.

Krym

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

spencerfollowsb16_ESO wrote: »

Give change a chance people. Or go to one of the other generic mmos where you can be spoon fed the same experience yet again.

Adding an auction house would not make this game like all the others. Guild stores are basically just auction houses anyway. The only difference is they aren't nearly as good. So unless you are lucky and found a very effective guild store that allows you to buy what you need, the system is not going to be satisfactory.

we all play on one server, it's a difference if we got one auction house which dictates prices for everyone (with the pricegouging, goldseller moneylaundering etc.) or a lot of different markets, it would also remove an incentive for guilds to cap castles to sell to everyone.

being in a highpop trade guild helps as well.

Jeremy

No

grayssonb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

spencerfollowsb16_ESO wrote: »

Give change a chance people. Or go to one of the other generic mmos where you can be spoon fed the same experience yet again.

Adding an auction house would not make this game like all the others. Guild stores are basically just auction houses anyway. The only difference is they aren't nearly as good. So unless you are lucky and found a very effective guild store that allows you to buy what you need, the system is not going to be satisfactory.

we all play on one server, it's a difference if we got one auction house which dictates prices for everyone (with the pricegouging, goldseller moneylaundering etc.) or a lot of different markets, it would also remove an incentive for guilds to cap castles to sell to everyone.

being in a highpop trade guild helps as well.

But that's a good thing that we are all on one server. The larger the market the better. So I don't see why that would be a negative. That is actually a positive.

Far as PvP aspects, I think it's a mistake to tie something as vital as the game's economy to the whims of PvP. That is just a disaster waiting to happen anyway in my opinion. So we need a good auction house that is kept separate from that.

And there are better ways to deal with gold sellers than fragmenting the game's economy. That is one of the situations where the cure is worst than the disease.

Opioid

No

@grayssonb16_ESO Sorry, but I need to completely disagree with you here. Having a lot of different markets is nice, but the problem is the limiting factor that not all the consumers in this game can participate in all the markets. You're limited to 5 guilds, or trying to spam for things in zone chat. There's nothing to stop price gouging in the current guild store setup either. In fact, quite the opposite. I can see the current system encouraging price gouging, especially the ability of guilds to own a keep and set exorbitant prices on their items since they basically have a captive audience with no competition.

Having a global economy helps to reduce price gouging significantly, with the exception of exceedingly rare/luxury items. Rare and highly sought after items will always command a higher price.