Official Night Market Feedback Thread

Wildberryjack

The boxes we get for turning in the district side quests are not worth it. One piece of gear we don't want, that's it. Only 40 favor against the 10k we need total. Hardly worth it again. And the achievement for doing all those side quests is, well, nothing. Not even some little trophy to stick in our houses. Ugh. I don't expect some earth shattering reward for all this but at least make it worth our time. I guess my biggest problem is the various rewards don't equal the time involved in earning them. I really want the monster set so I'm trying to plow through as best I can but at this point I'm not having fun, it feels like a chore.

Finedaible

Wildberryjack wrote: »

The boxes we get for turning in the district side quests are not worth it. One piece of gear we don't want, that's it. Only 40 favor against the 10k we need total. Hardly worth it again. And the achievement for doing all those side quests is, well, nothing. Not even some little trophy to stick in our houses. Ugh. I don't expect some earth shattering reward for all this but at least make it worth our time. I guess my biggest problem is the various rewards don't equal the time involved in earning them. I really want the monster set so I'm trying to plow through as best I can but at this point I'm not having fun, it feels like a chore.

Certainly, I did the side dailies until reaching 10k since that's about 600 rep in addition to killing bosses, but after that the district dailies lose their value unless you want your faction to "win", but it kind of halts the game-play loop since there's not a whole lot to be gained by "winning."

On the one hand, this will allow me more time to focus on the next step, the dungeons. They won't mean much else though if the only reward is overland gear that is far more easily farmed in its original location.

Syldras

Day 10.

Focused on bosses again today after I've also grown tired of questing in the Night Market somehow (let's say crouching through a tunnel or searching for the same missing people every day is hardly interesting). The faction points need to drop from something, after all.

Which means I've been subjected to the joys of trying to cooperate with random people again today. The usual chaos: People not listening or cooperating. People attacking all mobs around a boss at once - repeatedly, despite telling them not to. Someone yelling useless commands that absolutely didn't fit the boss mechanics, then throwing a toddler tantrum and ragequitting mid-fight (that was something new today, at least). Sometimes I wonder if people are not capable of reading in general, too lazy for it, or maybe sometimes there could be a language barrier that's causing problems? Waiting at a boss with 2 other people, writing in zone chat that I'll put a listing in the group finder to call more players, only to see one of those people immediately attacking and then directing the boss to me was also quite... maybe not the most intelligent behavior. It's exhausting, but not in a positive way. Unfortunately, I also can't think of anything that could change this.

At least I got the last mob splinter today and could complete relic/room no 2 (very weird, by the way, to get the congratulation letter and items from a faction you haven't joined, because factions and destricts are connected - narratively, the whole zone is huge nonsense, sorry). Now I've only got a few boss fragments for the last relic I need to do, and farming faction points to 10k, of course. I'm glad it will be finished in 3 or 4 days or so and I won't need to visit the Night Market again.

Marronsuisse

I've been having a lot of fun with the Night Market. I'm temporarily obsessed with this new shiny thing. For context, I've never done trials nor many DLC dungeons, as I'm not usually interested in instanced group PvE.

Likes

• Limited time has everyone focused on the event so it's easy to find groups for all aspects of the content.
• Low pressure grouping, no big time commitment. You can join for a bit and then take a break, since the group finder will fill slots easily.
• No indeterminate queues holding your time hostage, and no long waits for groups to fill (so far, at least - 1 week in).
• No quest NPCs with endless dialogue you can't listen to because you're... in the middle of doing group content, with a group. Dialogue is relegated to the lobby where it belongs.
• Housing stuff being one of the main rewards is a big lure for me.
• The Dunegorger eating half your group and absconding with them will never not be funny.
• Like I said... it's new and shiny (I'm attracted to novelty).

It improves a lot of the things that make me hesitant to spend time with dungeons and trials, except that the fights will still always be static and grow stale compared to PvP. But as a short term thing it's very fun.


Dislikes

• I don't know if quest sharing is working as intended, but it's certainly not working as expected. Sharing faction quests rarely works.
• Relics letting you take shortcuts in districts is not conducive to group play, since some players get left behind. Leave the relics for accessing dungeons and discovering cool secrets, etc.
• While I do like that the new housing rewards and leads are front loaded and accessible to unlock, once you unlock all that, it's a long road to 10k favour without much to sweeten the grind; I can't look forward to new furnishing plans, or new style pages, etc. Even a rare chance at something new dropping from bosses or coffers would be more exciting to look forward to than endless 10 year old gear sets.
• I hate everything about these "friendly competitions" in PvE, thanks. (Happy for all the players who made millions selling fragments I was locked out of ever acquiring, though. Honest.)

Anyway, overall I like it, as an event. A lot of what makes it fun for me is the nature of it being an event and concentrating players in this content. Also the novelty - a lot of the bosses being new to me, it's been fun to learn the mechanics. I'm not sure I have much reason to keep playing after I hit 10k, though. And I probably wouldn't grind to 10k with the other factions in future events unless the bosses or maps are different in some way, or the rewards are better.

Lixiviant

District side quest rewards are disappointing. I'm getting Mother's Sorrow and Briarheart pieces that we give away in Guild chat. The rewards from the bosses could be a bit better, too. I hope they take all of the feedback and make the next NM season something we all enjoy, solo and group players. Looking at the grind for the Golden Pursuits, well, I'm just going to sit this one out. (And I've always finished them in the past).

I'll just work on the Tomes for now.

Really a letdown with all the hype.

emilyhyoyeon

Syldras wrote: »

because factions and destricts are connected - narratively, the whole zone is huge nonsense, sorry).

It's crazy to me how so many people report liking the NM while this is true, on top of the fact that almost every single boss experience, other than Opulent Ordeal, is reused from dungeons or trials, even down to the names on most of them.

BahometZ

Sarwel_Hlaalu wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

The issues with the Night Market are vast and deep.


The Player base doesn't know how to play the game effectively. They don't communicate, .

While I agree with much of what you wrote (NPCs hitting too hard for anything but tanks, etc.), there is a large problem about communication that is not the players fault at all, at least on PC/Mac:

Any random group can only really communicate via the chat window. There is no voice communication in the game itself, you have to use Discord, TeamSpeak, Mumble or the like, which means you cannot use anything in random groups that do not have a server set up for it.
Chat window closes automatically in battle - so nobody sees what you type.
Typing takes time. I type at a speed of 400 characters/minute, or 100 words/minute for any Americans, and I struggle with typing in chat window during a fight. You can either type, or do anything else, like walking, running, hitting, casting. That is why there is no actual communication. That is why your only choice in a random groups is runing after the group leader like lemmings and try to hit as many NPCs as you can.

This is a great point. People who do organised content on the regular are used to parties/discord etc. All the best experiences I've had in NM have been with people I party with on the regular. Communicating in game is a nightmare. I remember back in the day guild voice chat was very much a regular thing, its how I met a lot of good people. But then it broke and a huge social element of the game withered away.

DoofusMax

Probably mentioned somewhere in the previous 29+ pages, but the system for getting Relics to unlock rooms in the Night's Den is, shall we say, "less than intuitive"? Consume fragments to proc the achievement, open mail which contains the furnishings crate, open the crate to add the relic to Collectibles, then place the relic on the appropriate pedestal. Once the achievement procs, the relic works fine for getting past district obstacles as soon as the achievement procs, so why the hoop-jumping to get it into Collections first?

anadandy

Marronsuisse wrote: »

Dislikes

[*] Relics letting you take shortcuts in districts is not conducive to group play, since some players get left behind. Leave the relics for accessing dungeons and discovering cool secrets, etc.

I've commented on this before but I think it bears repeating. This mechanic definitely needs to be one of the things the devs look at when they do their analysis. Especially the Parch relic, that is such a catch 22. Have to traverse the zone to get the relic and constantly hitting dead ends because you need the relic.

Both my accounts it was the last one I got because traversing with a mixed group often left people (myself included) stranded or having to hoof the long way around and the map is...not great.

Eporem

As a roleplayer I like using skills that I think the characters I play would know of or what makes sense in my mind of them– which includes skills that are scribed or sub-classed so I don’t usually group with ones I don’t know. The skills I use for now on certain ones are okay to go through an easier dungeon solo but not nearly good enough for maybe a trial…or to get through the IA all the way when I do go there on my own to practice these different skills and to see how they are together. I have found that when I used to group with others not known and stayed in character then sometimes how I responded to things made them laugh other times I was judged on why I should use other skills – that I don’t contribute enough or something like this.. and sometimes I would actually be kicked from the group, so travelling into the Night Market knowing it was mainly group content I was a little apprehensive though found when joining groups sometimes there has not been too much judgement on skills used and even when I stay within character mode it does still at times make ones laugh, in a good way, but what I have found to be most fun in groups is when others begin to play as their character as well – responding as such - like playing maybe the part of the faction chosen. The Night Market for sure was a learning curve to me, but one I enjoyed learning of – I just wish the RPG of the MMO part, when grouping was seen more of..for I love the MMO part of this game as well – I love being around so many others, or the energy of this that everyone is a Player character moreso I believe than if I were to play in a singular game – even when I think maybe it is just these NPCès that stay within their character - I just wish more would roleplay characters created when grouping or understand that there are roleplayers who play in character that do like to group as well ..or even with overland grouping- a balance in a way of what ESO is described as – a MMORPG set within the Elder Scrolls universe..another edit: I guess what I would love to see more of - because the group finder was made more aware of through this Night Market - are groups that say roleplayers welcomed - and maybe what was learnt other than maybe looking at other skills that could make characters stronger while still maintaining what I feel they would know is that I can even create groups such as this in the over land when this Night market closes...though geared towards ones that like playing with skills you think your character would know of - if even just for the fun to see how far ones can go through the harder dungeons or such.. another thing as well of the Night Market that I loved is the atmosphere of this - how it looks...the different districts.. listening to the npc's speaking in them and what they say.. things like this..

Blood_again

Small update about the keys problem.
Community, as any life form, adapts.

Veteran players, who help guildmates with gold keys, leave the dungeon 10 sec before the end.
This way they do their fair work and save the silver keys for their next run at the same time.
The award for the dungeon is not that valuable for veteran players to overweigh the following farm of the silver keys.

Trial and dungeon groups who are working on the achievements refuse to finish the content if something goes wrong.
They just leave it as is to meet next time in the same place.
Nothing like "lets do it without no-death then, just to close the gestalt", as it may happen for DLC trifecta.
People save their keys for the next run. The price is a feeling of incompletion.

Organized groups promise their participants to make a run for keys after the trial run for all who want it.
This way people are easier to agree to make one more run over the plan.
So raiders are ready to spend more of their time to fulfill the group more quickly and easily.

Summary, we solve the problem as we can. But this is just crutches for the broken leg of the keys system.
We are still anxious when we have cross-invites from different groups. We have to choose carefully, and we miss opportunities because of the key rotation.

I understand that this system helps to fulfill overland groups with experienced players.
But this system is a problem. It needs to be changed.

Soarora

Feedback #9.1

Now having done gilded -> opulent in one run, I really do wish that the whole gameplay loop worked as an option. It could be a problem where you're waiting for one group to clear but it was a unique experience trying to clear the dungeons around the same time as 2 other groups. I would do this again.

sleepy_worm

It would be cool if your faction headquarters changed appearance as your faction's global favor rises.

bobsontpm

Update on my journey in Night Market so far (6500 favour points so far, done almost everything except for opulent trial).

bobsontpm wrote: »

It's better than the Test Server. It gives some fun, and it gives some kind of achivement, when you do a boss with a random buch of people you meet in a district. The story is nice and the zone itself is beautiful, I like it.

BUT:

- Who in their right mind thought that running the main boss of a district through the areas of all other bosses? You are trying to explain the mechanics of a Boss, then you run it with people, some of them do mistakes, you do mistakes, but you keep going, you get the Argent boss to 20%, then BAM, this ugly giant spider slams into the middle killing everybody. THIS IS NOT FUN. AND it kills the experience for not so hardcore players.

Give the opportunity to lure the big wandering boss to the boss area, for veteran players, but leave the possibility to avoid it. Move the path of the big boss to the edge of the area, so you can run single encounter away from it. Maybe give an achievement for killing the boss while the wandering boss is in the fight, for the veterans to enjoy.

- the "hit boxes" of objectives (especially burn the propaganda! You need to find an exact spot to stand and an exact angle and point to click, otherwise you cannot interact with those. Also, quest markers for many objectives (e.g. bodies) appears AFTER you trample over body few times. It should be visible if you are few meters away, as per normal quests... given the zone is not a OLDSCHOOL QUESTING zone (as those new additions you have advertised), but full of nasty encounters.

- the "friendly competition" between factions. Gives a lot of FOMO. You had the experience of the FOMO last year with a "friendly competition" between servers, and it backfired. Just don't. Nobody is asking for a friendly competition based on grind outside of PvP...

- drop rates from the "easy" mobs. They are laughable at this point. I got lucky after 4 h of play to get the fragment, but heard a lot of people got nothing for hours, and the mobs does not drop anything except the relic fragments, so a person who does not see a single drop in a few hours might wonder if this is broken or not.

- the Curated Coffers are a joke. Base game overland pieces? I havent got a single one that I haven't got, so it seems only base game zones equipment drops. And only equipment. No gold, no sellable items, no motifs, nothing. Provided how hard it is to get one quest (relatively to other sources in game) and that the mobs do not drop gold, this is a joke.

- the population. The instances were completely empty. I found two people doing my instance inside, had to recruit in the guild. You can say it is why guilds are there in the first place, but... Instance has 36 people cap. SO what is the probability, that you have empty instance one day after event start. It does not seem very promising. I think a lot of "casuals" (I'm a casual myself, btw.) went there, could not find a decent group and they got frustrated and quit. I have read some people suggesting vet/normal mode. That's a good idea. Also, drop the requirement everyone in the group needs those keys for dungs, because this kills runs. When one person left good luck finding a replacement in a foreseeable future...

So far my experience with that zone: 2.5 / 5.

- Group Finder is useful finally for something. Without it, it would be impossible to do the content. Since I started using it, everything became more smooth. One suggestion though (and seeing other ppl have the same feelings here): allow permanent listing of a group (or auto relist) after somebody leaves the group. With all the rage quitting, long runs, ppl come and go, it is super frustrating to stop in a middle of hostile district to fill out all the details of the listing. Also, I do not know if this is only me, but enforcing group composition does not work in Event Zone Group Finder. This basically dispels my last point from previous list, and made

- Random groups though... Usually you get decent people, but sometimes... some ppl make you understand why many people prefer to adventure alone. But I think the ratio is rather 80 (good groups) : 20 (bad groups).

- Oddities are annoying. Something you do once for achievement and then do not want to do any more. It is frustrating that they fire of 3 times or something like that then go quiet for like 15 minutes. Super annoying when you are camping at the last needed for achievement. And of course you cannot interact with them, when you are in combat... And in Parch you have a lot of mobs that can pester you when you are playing with boulders...

- I haven't done some quest recently, but a lot of things were misplaced. Like propaganda posters floating mid air, also the Not A Potion Concotion, also flying.

- Loot from bosses seems ok. You can get some interesting stuff, especially Golden and Skirmish which drop Trial gear, motifs, etc. I think bosses in dungs also should drop Trial gear.

- placement of quest givers, logs and books. Super annoying if they are at the spawn point or so close to the spawn point for (not so) trash mobs, goven how sensitive those guys are (my reduce sneak detection radius setup, that allows me to dance in the front of any guard does not work on them). You cannot read the things in peace.

- It is far more pleasant to be and move in the districts when you have relics.

- The trial. I haven't been there yet, but I watched the tutorial videos. At first I was like: WTF with all this running mechanics? But after some discussion in the guild it seems not so bad. I need to see for myself. Sadly, last week you could find random listings

- from guild I also learned that keys are consumed after completion of Dung/Trial, so there is no penalty for going in with a group that will not make it. That's great design!

- The dungs are kind of disappointing. I wished they would be the full dungs, with quest, lore, etc. And they are just the room with a boss... Some are really nice though (the Sload den in particular)). The same for the extra rooms in Thives Den house. I thought they would be... bigger? Something like the Lunar Champion Hall in Northern Elsweyr. Or at least there would be some nice view from them...

- travelling over districts is not the most pleasant. It's nice that the mobs have very short disengade distance, and you can outrun them. But there are some flaws: review in Parch, that has only two pints, and sometimes you can get resurrected in opposite region.... is a pain, especially if you do not have relic. Sorrow Friend is also bad, as one misstep might land you in the darkness zone (due to the "stupid" physics engine), without a chance to run from it. In Skittering you can travel over the rooftops which is great, but you cannot cross the whole district that way, as the Poles are very often blocked or too far away. It would be cool to have some quests or other activities that happen on the rooftops in that district! Finally, the portal to the central district is often not responsive.

Overall, I had some fun recently. The FOMO went away. Seeing the devs really care about our feedback is great, I think now I can give NM 4 / 5.

Some suggestions:

- it seems dull to complete all the tasks and gaining favour and nothing comes from it story wise. It would be nice to have some story developed as we gain more and more favor. Maybe it should stop at 5000 favor, so you don't get too much FOMO.

- don't push "friendly competition". This one stands.

- place quest / books / logs / scrolls / pieces of lore outside of mobs treat zones.

- improve the safe spots in district. Give portals to other safe spots from a given spot. That would be so much convenient! Allow to travel more on rooftops in Skittering. Maybe add more jump platform, so you don't need to run so much to opposing side of the building (and facing sand wall sometimes in Parch...). Improve responsiveness of the portal to the Center Zone.