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Vengeance ruleset for Dungeons/Etc.
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JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are no real PVE performance issues in 4 or 12 player instanced content that are game related. Mostly those would be addon or hardware related issues.
While these same things are also a hinderance in PVP it is a much wider issue overall in Cyro.
Case in point I never had any issues with instanced PVE but did have several issues with overland PVE and all PVP on an older laptop. When it died and I upgraded I still had no issues in instanced PVE or overland PVE and much less in PVP outside of larger scale battles.
Now i have a failing hard drive and the Overland PVE and PVP issues are back again but still have had no real issues in instanced PVE. I know it is a hardware issue and not an internet or addon issue because if I log into my stream deck I am back to just having problems in PVP related content only and yes I have all the same addon for the steam deck.
For everyone sake I hope that the stick to having both Gray Host and Vengeance as play options and they continue to work on balancing things for the Gray Host campaign.
Not true. There are very significant performance issues in trials. These issues often lead to disconnects and failed trifectas.1 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are no real PVE performance issues in 4 or 12 player instanced content that are game related. Mostly those would be addon or hardware related issues.
While these same things are also a hinderance in PVP it is a much wider issue overall in Cyro.
Case in point I never had any issues with instanced PVE but did have several issues with overland PVE and all PVP on an older laptop. When it died and I upgraded I still had no issues in instanced PVE or overland PVE and much less in PVP outside of larger scale battles.
Now i have a failing hard drive and the Overland PVE and PVP issues are back again but still have had no real issues in instanced PVE. I know it is a hardware issue and not an internet or addon issue because if I log into my stream deck I am back to just having problems in PVP related content only and yes I have all the same addon for the steam deck.
For everyone sake I hope that the stick to having both Gray Host and Vengeance as play options and they continue to work on balancing things for the Gray Host campaign.
Not gonna read past the first sentence cause it’s false. There are many many many many performance issues we deal with all across the board. NEXT!"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)4 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »Vengeance is designed to test the performance of removing a host of HoTs, DoTs and procs from 900 players all fighting each other.
4 or 12 people in a dungeon or trial do not face the same issues. Are there lag spikes? Yes, on occassion, but that is a server issue, not a game code issue.
What about the siege camps? Or riding your mount from the shrine to the enclave grahtwood primetime?
In part, that is a your hardware issue (I get the same problems); and in part, too high a player cap in instances. While I agree annoying, it's still not the same issue that vengeance seeks to address.
Performance issues in ESO are hardware related only in the sense that ZOS' server hardware is outdated. Performance issues are almost never hardware related on the client side.
Turn down your graphics settings, see what happens. Yes, that's a curt response but the notion that client side doesn't affect performance is sheer nonsense.
Again, outside of two very specific scenarios, the server calcs for PvE are tiny compared to those found in Cyrodiil. If there are performance issues then the problem is client side - Vengeance in PvE would not change that because the whole point of Vengeance is to reduce the server calcs.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!2 -
JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »Vengeance is designed to test the performance of removing a host of HoTs, DoTs and procs from 900 players all fighting each other.
4 or 12 people in a dungeon or trial do not face the same issues. Are there lag spikes? Yes, on occassion, but that is a server issue, not a game code issue.
What about the siege camps? Or riding your mount from the shrine to the enclave grahtwood primetime?
In part, that is a your hardware issue (I get the same problems); and in part, too high a player cap in instances. While I agree annoying, it's still not the same issue that vengeance seeks to address.
Performance issues in ESO are hardware related only in the sense that ZOS' server hardware is outdated. Performance issues are almost never hardware related on the client side.
Turn down your graphics settings, see what happens. Yes, that's a curt response but the notion that client side doesn't affect performance is sheer nonsense.
Again, outside of two very specific scenarios, the server calcs for PvE are tiny compared to those found in Cyrodiil. If there are performance issues then the problem is client side - Vengeance in PvE would not change that because the whole point of Vengeance is to reduce the server calcs.
No. The problem is not my hardware. I've tested this many times before.
And of course the server calculations are lower in overland PvE, but that can't be said for trials, where performance mirrors that of what we see in Cyrodiil.0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Now what’s the excuse for high ping in pve instances, no idea probably their bad coding
If it's consistent and in the same place then it's the coding.
If it's intermittent and the place changes it's either server lag or client side.
Server lag can be caused by a host of issues, from the code exceeding the optimal performance of the server tech, to DDOS attacks, to the hosts (AWS, Cloudflare, etc) janky code.
Client side can be due to something else running in the background, updates to software happening, ISP throttling the bandwidth, driver software.
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
twisttop138✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.5 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »No. The problem is not my hardware. I've tested this many times before.
And of course the server calculations are lower in overland PvE, but that can't be said for trials, where performance mirrors that of what we see in Cyrodiil.
And there is the point you keep failing to understand - if the performance issues are the same in a 12 man zone and a 360 man zone that performance issue is NOT being caused by the server calcs.
Venegance's goal is to reduce the server calcs so implementing it in PvE would have little to no effect on trials - trials that would have to be completely reworked by the way to account for the massive power loss.
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »No. The problem is not my hardware. I've tested this many times before.
And of course the server calculations are lower in overland PvE, but that can't be said for trials, where performance mirrors that of what we see in Cyrodiil.
And there is the point you keep failing to understand - if the performance issues are the same in a 12 man zone and a 360 man zone that performance issue is NOT being caused by the server calcs.
Venegance's goal is to reduce the server calcs so implementing it in PvE would have little to no effect on trials - trials that would have to be completely reworked by the way to account for the massive power loss.
The performance is the same in both environments because it only takes 12 players with high APM to over tax the old servers ZOS is using. This is why overland PvE players don't see a problem, but the more highly skilled players pushing the hardest content do see it, regardless of the content they're running.Edited by JustLovely on 25 November 2025 18:452 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.
This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset. All I keep hearing is “performance isn’t an issue” to which I’ve given plenty of examples that it is. If the Vengeance ruleset is meant to solve performance issues why not have it in PvE?
Cause the majority doesn’t like it?????
Nooooo that wouldn’t make sense.
If they have a “feature” that improves performance it should be widely available in the game. If that’s the only way for them to fix their performance issues than maybe that is what they need to roll out across the entire game.
Some people might view that as if you need to put your dog down, don’t shoot it in the leg, just do what needs to be done and be done with it. But that’s some people…..Edited by SneaK on 25 November 2025 18:48"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)4 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community?
I stopped reading here. Come on now.Tes fans hate Ulfric Stormcloak for imagined bigotry but love Dagoth Ur, the Empire, and the Telvanni unironically.0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »The performance is the same in both environments because it only takes 12 players with high APM to over tax the old servers ZOS is using. This is why overland PvE players don't see a problem, but the more highly skilled players pushing the hardest content do see it, regardless of the content they're running.
Overland has more server calcs than an instanced trial.
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.
This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset. All I keep hearing is “performance isn’t an issue” to which I’ve given plenty of examples that it is. If the Vengeance ruleset is meant to solve performance issues why not have it in PvE?
Nobody is giving you legitimate reasons because we all know (including you) that your point is “waa PvPers are forced to play Vengeance and that sucks so make the game sucky for everyone!” and you’re dismissing everyone who also agreed that it’s unwanted.
So if that’s what you want, then we can be just as petulant: GH isn’t going away. IC isn’t going away. BGs aren’t going away. So realistically, PvP isn’t forced into Vengeance either. The only people this is directly going to affect, at least at the moment, are those toxic PvPers whose entire game is “farm noobs when they accidentally go in GH.” The equivalent “make PvE vengeance here would be that some trials have Vengeance mechanics and the rest and Dungeons and Arenas all proceed as normal.
As for the future, that remains to be seen. But I’ve seen a lot more PvErs who are disappointed in ZOS’s decision than PvErs who are praising it. But this whole act is going to do nothing but make you more and more salty and turn people away from your side.Edited by tomofhyrule on 25 November 2025 18:587 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset.
It's not necessary. That's it, that's all it needs to be.
So I'll ask again: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8396150/#Comment_8396150PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭tomofhyrule wrote: »twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.
This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset. All I keep hearing is “performance isn’t an issue” to which I’ve given plenty of examples that it is. If the Vengeance ruleset is meant to solve performance issues why not have it in PvE?
Nobody is giving you legitimate reasons because we all know (including you) that your point is “waa PvPers are forced to play Vengeance and that sucks so make the game sucky for everyone!” and you’re dismissing everyone who also agreed that it’s unwanted.
So if that’s what you want, then we can be just as petulant: GH isn’t going away. IC isn’t going away. BGs aren’t going away. So realistically, PvP isn’t forced into Vengeance either. The only people this is directly going to affect, at least at the moment, are those toxic PvPers whose entire game is “farm noobs when they accidentally go in GH.” The equivalent “make PvE vengeance here would be that some trials have Vengeance mechanics and the rest and Dungeons and Arenas all proceed as normal.
As for the future, that remains to be seen. But I’ve seen a lot more PvErs who are disappointed in ZOS’s decision than PvErs who are praising it. But this whole act is going to do nothing but make you more and more salty and turn people away from your side.
No. Nobody is giving legitimate reasons cause there are none.
Seems like maybe nobody wants Vengeance. Which is strange cause it’s coming, and ZOS has numbers of positive reviews for it… If a feature so widely accepted that also improves performance is available, it should be available across the entire game. It’s you guys and ZOS splitting the community, not me. I’d actually view my stance as the opposite."IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)1 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth in addition to some trolling from this thread.- Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.
The Elder Scrolls Online Team1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭tomofhyrule wrote: »twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.
This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset. All I keep hearing is “performance isn’t an issue” to which I’ve given plenty of examples that it is. If the Vengeance ruleset is meant to solve performance issues why not have it in PvE?
Nobody is giving you legitimate reasons because we all know (including you) that your point is “waa PvPers are forced to play Vengeance and that sucks so make the game sucky for everyone!” and you’re dismissing everyone who also agreed that it’s unwanted.
So if that’s what you want, then we can be just as petulant: GH isn’t going away. IC isn’t going away. BGs aren’t going away. So realistically, PvP isn’t forced into Vengeance either. The only people this is directly going to affect, at least at the moment, are those toxic PvPers whose entire game is “farm noobs when they accidentally go in GH.” The equivalent “make PvE vengeance here would be that some trials have Vengeance mechanics and the rest and Dungeons and Arenas all proceed as normal.
As for the future, that remains to be seen. But I’ve seen a lot more PvErs who are disappointed in ZOS’s decision than PvErs who are praising it. But this whole act is going to do nothing but make you more and more salty and turn people away from your side.
No. Nobody is giving legitimate reasons cause there are none.
Seems like maybe nobody wants Vengeance. Which is strange cause it’s coming, and ZOS has numbers of positive reviews for it… If a feature so widely accepted that also improves performance is available, it should be available across the entire game. It’s you guys and ZOS splitting the community, not me. I’d actually view my stance as the opposite.
You've been given several, you just refuse to accept them.
You've been asked several times to give details of the performance issues you are having in PvE and yet can't seem to muster any.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!2 -
twisttop138✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community?
I stopped reading here. Come on now.
You can feel free to stop reading but the answer should obvious. There is no huge cabal of players trying to kill your game mode. People keep saying a large group of pve mains. How on earth could you possibly know this except that it fits the echo chamber narrative around this issue. We see it in real life too. Players didn't do this man. Your issue is with Zenimax.3 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭tomofhyrule wrote: »twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.
This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset. All I keep hearing is “performance isn’t an issue” to which I’ve given plenty of examples that it is. If the Vengeance ruleset is meant to solve performance issues why not have it in PvE?
Nobody is giving you legitimate reasons because we all know (including you) that your point is “waa PvPers are forced to play Vengeance and that sucks so make the game sucky for everyone!” and you’re dismissing everyone who also agreed that it’s unwanted.
So if that’s what you want, then we can be just as petulant: GH isn’t going away. IC isn’t going away. BGs aren’t going away. So realistically, PvP isn’t forced into Vengeance either. The only people this is directly going to affect, at least at the moment, are those toxic PvPers whose entire game is “farm noobs when they accidentally go in GH.” The equivalent “make PvE vengeance here would be that some trials have Vengeance mechanics and the rest and Dungeons and Arenas all proceed as normal.
As for the future, that remains to be seen. But I’ve seen a lot more PvErs who are disappointed in ZOS’s decision than PvErs who are praising it. But this whole act is going to do nothing but make you more and more salty and turn people away from your side.
No. Nobody is giving legitimate reasons cause there are none.
Seems like maybe nobody wants Vengeance. Which is strange cause it’s coming, and ZOS has numbers of positive reviews for it… If a feature so widely accepted that also improves performance is available, it should be available across the entire game. It’s you guys and ZOS splitting the community, not me. I’d actually view my stance as the opposite.
You've been given several, you just refuse to accept them.
You've been asked several times to give details of the performance issues you are having in PvE and yet can't seem to muster any.
This is wild. Read through my comments, I’ve given plenty. I’m not going to have the same conversation 10 times"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)1 -
JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »The performance is the same in both environments because it only takes 12 players with high APM to over tax the old servers ZOS is using. This is why overland PvE players don't see a problem, but the more highly skilled players pushing the hardest content do see it, regardless of the content they're running.
Overland has more server calcs than an instanced trial.
I think there is a pretty serious flaw in your thinking here. Maybe you could explain how a solo overland player is taxing the server more than a 12 player trial group with high APM players?
Edited by JustLovely on 25 November 2025 21:450 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »The performance is the same in both environments because it only takes 12 players with high APM to over tax the old servers ZOS is using. This is why overland PvE players don't see a problem, but the more highly skilled players pushing the hardest content do see it, regardless of the content they're running.
Overland has more server calcs than an instanced trial.
I think there is a pretty serious flaw in your thinking here. Maybe you could explain how a solo overland player is taxing the server more than a 12 player trial group with high APM players?
Because there isn't one player in the overland instance ...PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭tomofhyrule wrote: »twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.
This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset. All I keep hearing is “performance isn’t an issue” to which I’ve given plenty of examples that it is. If the Vengeance ruleset is meant to solve performance issues why not have it in PvE?
Nobody is giving you legitimate reasons because we all know (including you) that your point is “waa PvPers are forced to play Vengeance and that sucks so make the game sucky for everyone!” and you’re dismissing everyone who also agreed that it’s unwanted.
So if that’s what you want, then we can be just as petulant: GH isn’t going away. IC isn’t going away. BGs aren’t going away. So realistically, PvP isn’t forced into Vengeance either. The only people this is directly going to affect, at least at the moment, are those toxic PvPers whose entire game is “farm noobs when they accidentally go in GH.” The equivalent “make PvE vengeance here would be that some trials have Vengeance mechanics and the rest and Dungeons and Arenas all proceed as normal.
As for the future, that remains to be seen. But I’ve seen a lot more PvErs who are disappointed in ZOS’s decision than PvErs who are praising it. But this whole act is going to do nothing but make you more and more salty and turn people away from your side.
No. Nobody is giving legitimate reasons cause there are none.
Seems like maybe nobody wants Vengeance. Which is strange cause it’s coming, and ZOS has numbers of positive reviews for it… If a feature so widely accepted that also improves performance is available, it should be available across the entire game. It’s you guys and ZOS splitting the community, not me. I’d actually view my stance as the opposite.
You've been given several, you just refuse to accept them.
You've been asked several times to give details of the performance issues you are having in PvE and yet can't seem to muster any.
This is wild. Read through my comments, I’ve given plenty. I’m not going to have the same conversation 10 times
Ok, so your issues seem to be issues with the bank and CP - that sounds like a connection or bugged coding issue. It's no performance.
You mention lag a couple of times but give no specific details - so again, outside of Town hubs/World Bosses (that can be fixed by lowering the instance cap):
Where does this lag occur for you?
What are your graphic settings?
What is your ISP like?
How often does this occur?
How big are the lag spikes?
How long do the lag spikes last?PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »The performance is the same in both environments because it only takes 12 players with high APM to over tax the old servers ZOS is using. This is why overland PvE players don't see a problem, but the more highly skilled players pushing the hardest content do see it, regardless of the content they're running.
Overland has more server calcs than an instanced trial.
I think there is a pretty serious flaw in your thinking here. Maybe you could explain how a solo overland player is taxing the server more than a 12 player trial group with high APM players?
Because there isn't one player in the overland instance ...
Now please explain why the solo player in overland has perfect or near perfect performance and why the trial group or Cyrodiil has atrocious performance issues please.0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭tomofhyrule wrote: »twisttop138 wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »It's funny how the PvE community pushes so hard for vengeance but when the same system is proposed for PvE zones they freak out and throw down all kinds of reasons why the template mode is no good or not needed.
I keep seeing this. Who is pushing hard? What is the pve community? Who in their right mind thinks people speak for all people. There's pvpers saying they like this idea. Is that the pvp community? Does that mean the pvp community is pushing hard for vengeance? Let's be very clear here. Some people seem to like it and some don't. This nonsense that there's some secret cabal of pve players trying to take down Cyro is wild. You guys have legit good arguments to stand on. Hyperbole and bad faith stuff do not help. The same as people posting Zos's post on reddit but carefully removing sentences to rage bait don't help. Stand on the merits.
This is me standing on merit, and I will die on this hill. No one is giving legitimate reasons to not have a PvE Vengeance ruleset. All I keep hearing is “performance isn’t an issue” to which I’ve given plenty of examples that it is. If the Vengeance ruleset is meant to solve performance issues why not have it in PvE?
Nobody is giving you legitimate reasons because we all know (including you) that your point is “waa PvPers are forced to play Vengeance and that sucks so make the game sucky for everyone!” and you’re dismissing everyone who also agreed that it’s unwanted.
So if that’s what you want, then we can be just as petulant: GH isn’t going away. IC isn’t going away. BGs aren’t going away. So realistically, PvP isn’t forced into Vengeance either. The only people this is directly going to affect, at least at the moment, are those toxic PvPers whose entire game is “farm noobs when they accidentally go in GH.” The equivalent “make PvE vengeance here would be that some trials have Vengeance mechanics and the rest and Dungeons and Arenas all proceed as normal.
As for the future, that remains to be seen. But I’ve seen a lot more PvErs who are disappointed in ZOS’s decision than PvErs who are praising it. But this whole act is going to do nothing but make you more and more salty and turn people away from your side.
No. Nobody is giving legitimate reasons cause there are none.
Seems like maybe nobody wants Vengeance. Which is strange cause it’s coming, and ZOS has numbers of positive reviews for it… If a feature so widely accepted that also improves performance is available, it should be available across the entire game. It’s you guys and ZOS splitting the community, not me. I’d actually view my stance as the opposite.
You've been given several, you just refuse to accept them.
You've been asked several times to give details of the performance issues you are having in PvE and yet can't seem to muster any.
This is wild. Read through my comments, I’ve given plenty. I’m not going to have the same conversation 10 times
Ok, so your issues seem to be issues with the bank and CP - that sounds like a connection or bugged coding issue. It's no performance.
You mention lag a couple of times but give no specific details - so again, outside of Town hubs/World Bosses (that can be fixed by lowering the instance cap):
Where does this lag occur for you?
What are your graphic settings?
What is your ISP like?
How often does this occur?
How big are the lag spikes?
How long do the lag spikes last?
I guess I will say it again.
I’m on a series X. I don’t see the same repeated lag in PvP that I do in PvE. I don’t crash in PvP like I do in PvE. I’ve seen teleporting atros at Molag Kena, delayed synergies in imperial prison, Maw mass disconnects, screen tearing and audio skipping in grahtwood, teleporting players in Riften, FPS drops at any event, crashing or timing out literally anywhere.
Acting like a bunch of players at a seige camp spamming abilities and creating lag is somehow an acceptable flaw just because it’s on a time constraint is not okay. It’s the same issue they are saying they resolved with their vengeance ruleset.
Like what is your motive other than telling me my experiences aren’t as valuable as yours?
If the player base’s main complaint is performance……. Why would we not be wanting the whole game to perform? There’s a clear reason and no one wants to say it."IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m on a series X.
Doesn't mean your hardware isn't faulty.I don’t see the same repeated lag in PvP that I do in PvE. I don’t crash in PvP like I do in PvE.
Then you are very much in the minority, because most players experience it the other way around.I’ve seen teleporting atros at Molag Kena, delayed synergies in imperial prison, Maw mass disconnects, screen tearing and audio skipping in grahtwood, teleporting players in Riften
And how often does that happen? Every day? Every week? Every month?
The audio skipping - is that after a 15 minutes or when you first login?FPS drops at any event, crashing or timing out literally anywhere ... Acting like a bunch of players at a seige camp spamming abilities and creating lag is somehow an acceptable flaw just because it’s on a time constraint is not okay. It’s the same issue they are saying they resolved with their vengeance ruleset.
That problem can be solved by lowering the instance cap. The same is not true of Cyrodiil as the cap has already been lowered to ghost town status.Like what is your motive other than telling me my experiences aren’t as valuable as yours?
Your experience doesn't match most people's. You make it sound like you are having constant fps drop and lag spikes - nobody I know experiences anything remotely like that. I don't experience anything remotely like that - and my rig is junk at this point. So why you on your Series X and not me on my pile of junk? Does that make logical sense to you?
There are a myriad of reasons for the problems you are experiencing and other then the outside overland at events (which can be fixed by simply lowering the instance cap), none of them are coming from the issue of server calcs - which is what Vengeance seeks to lower.
You seem to be experiencing problems on a scale no one I know experiences, and simply adding Vengeance mode won't change that. So you can keep calling for something that is never going to happen because PvE does not have performance issues, or you can engage with a community who is well versed in MMOs, client-side issues, server issues and technical knowledge that may help improve your play experience.
So lets start with the basics. Are you running Performance Mode (QHD) or Fidelity Mode (4k)?
You mentioned screen tearing? I'm guessing you have V-sync off as that is what causes tearing. You can turn it on, but that may cause input lag.Edited by Gabriel_H on 25 November 2025 23:34PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
ShutUpitsRed✭✭✭I've had performance issues in almost every trial I've played and crashed out of a couple, especially the newer ones. People are comparing this to PvP, which I guess is fair, but I don't really think they're equivalent. I've definitely had performance issues in Gray Host before, and have been disconnected a couple times too, but per-capita have far more issues in trials. Also, disconnecting or having performance issues is a MUCH bigger problem in trials- I've had groups wipe because of one DC or a stuttered mechanic, which borks the whole run. In Cyrodiil, when performance is bad, it's just a couple extra deaths or an inconvenience to re-queue. It's Cyrodiil; you die and you're inconvenienced all the time, and the only "punishment" is your own frustration (where in PvE, you lose your score, rewards, etc). The experience of the whole team is seldom ruined when there's PvP performance issues, not that they're not bad, but they're hardly as experience-breaking and frustrating as in PvE.
Vengeance for AT LEAST trials should help identify and address these issues, no? Not understanding the pushback, I thought we all wanted better performance in ESO.
(inb4 connection and hardware, I have an absurdly powerful machine and connection, it ain't me)0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShutUpitsRed wrote: »Vengeance for AT LEAST trials should help identify and address these issues, no? Not understanding the pushback, I thought we all wanted better performance in ESO.
(inb4 connection and hardware, I have an absurdly powerful machine and connection, it ain't me)
Vengeance's goal is to lower the server calcs which is what is affecting perfomance. The calcs in trials are not even remotely putting the same strain on the servers.
Having Vengeance in PvE doesn't solve disconnects.
Having powerful hardware doesn't mean it functions correctlty.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0
