Is "teabagging" [still] considered Trolling and/or Toxic?

BXR_Lonestar

LadyGP wrote: »

Not another one of these threads..... there are a very specific group of individuals that this is the hill they want to die on. It's not toxic IMO if done in good taste.

Tbagging is a right of passage way back to the early Halo days. When someone kills me and tbags me it's like a GG to me.

I don't think it's sexual in nature, I don't think anythingnegative about it. If it bothers you, ask them to stop, if they continue report it and move on.

This is how I feel about it personally. Unless the other person has been super toxic to me about it, I really don't care. I pretty much treat it like "Ha ha, you got me this time, I'll get you next time."

The fundament-hurt people online feel nowadays about getting T-Bagged is not warranted, and I know there are many out there that hyper-sexualize it when its not a sexual thing. It's literally the easiest way to celebrate a win. It takes less effort to squat really quickly than it does to emote, but yet, that is what we're relegated to doing.

BXR_Lonestar

DominicanaDi wrote: »

Recently, I reported some players who were taking turns and positioning themselves on top of my toon's and proceeded to repeatedly crouch on my character's body or what is commonly known as teabag. After ESO reviewed the video evidence, they determined that their behavior was not considered a violation of their Code of Conduct. As a response, I have been asking if "teabags" is not considered toxic anymore; more specifically, if this is *now* allowed, but no one has responded yet.

Yes, Di, they are allowed to Teabag you. UNLESS:

1. They Teabag you once and you send them a message asking them to stop.

2. You save that message with the time stamp.

3. Then the next time they teabag you, you get video evidence with a timestamp showing that they Teabagged you AFTER you asked them to stop.

If you do this, there will likely be disciplinary action taken against that player. At that point, it is more about the "targeting" of a specific player for what they deem harassing behavior, and it is less about the Teabagging.

BXR_Lonestar

SilverBride wrote: »

The whole process of asking a player not to teabag when there may be no way to message them, and immediately start videoing not only the first teabagging but the request to stop, and then them not stopping, all to prove it happened seems very cumbersome at best.

Just change the crouching animation and put an end to this.

I can tell you this from someone who has seen T-Bagging in all kinds of games. T-Bagging is a rather unique phenomenon that in an overwhelming majority of cases occurs in PVP modes. Not just in ESO, but literally, in any game. It's really not the rude toxic gesture people make it out to be, and in IMO, I think this is just one of those things where if you can't handle getting killed in PVP, you shouldn't be playing PVP.

Then the problem is solved. Changing the crouching function/mechanic is not practical because it serves a purpose in all phases of the game.

sweatapodimas

Can someone explain what a teabag has to do with this behavior, and what did teabags ever do to deserve being dangled about in this conversation?

This is an insult to tea everywhere, being associated with such bawdy filth (best English accent)

SilverBride

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

It's really not the rude toxic gesture people make it out to be...

Yes, it is.

I can't think of one situation where it is acceptable for someone to approach another person and dangle any part of their body in that person's face, let alone a private part. That is a rude and toxic gesture anywhere.

This needs to stop.

alternatelder

LadyGP wrote: »

Not another one of these threads..... there are a very specific group of individuals that this is the hill they want to die on. It's not toxic IMO if done in good taste.

Tbagging is a right of passage way back to the early Halo days. When someone kills me and tbags me it's like a GG to me.

I don't think it's sexual in nature, I don't think anythingnegative about it. If it bothers you, ask them to stop, if they continue report it and move on.

It literally is a sexual thing. It was an early Halo days thing, sure, but the term/gesture literally is of sexual nature. 99% of the people doing it know exactly what the gesture is referring to. Stop pretending you don't.

LPapirius

Yes, teabagging is toxic. It's done with the intent to offend and demean the slain opponent.

So just don't do it. There's no reason for such displays of infantile insecurity and immaturity.

LPapirius

I think they should make it so if someone crouches three times in three seconds or less then they are CC'd in a curled up ball on the ground for 30 seconds and unable to defend themselves or do anything. They just have to lay there in CC'd in the fetal position and hope nobody comes and kills them.

Desiato

LPapirius wrote: »

There's no reason for such displays of infantile insecurity and immaturity.

You might call it that, but another would say it's insecure and immature to try to get someone banned for taunting them.

Live and let live.

LPapirius

Desiato wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

There's no reason for such displays of infantile insecurity and immaturity.

You might call it that, but another would say it's insecure and immature to try to get someone banned for taunting them.

Live and let live.

If you honestly believed in "live and let live" you wouldn't be defending offensive behavior.

Supreme_Atromancer

Desiato wrote: »

Not everything some people don't like needs to go away. Pretty much everything is disliked by someone . It is literally impossible for society to adapt to the sensitivities of every individual. So we need to put things into perspective and learn to deal with the things we don't like to the greatest degree possible.

This is especially important when living in a free society. Something too many people have forgotten.

Oh boy, I know its a mistake to get involved in these kind of conversations, but I'm just not that smart, apparently. Or bored. Or probably both.

Your argument seems to suggest that; "if we were to get rid of teabagging, we would have to get rid of literally every thing" Slippery slope. Like soon we will be marrying horses.

I don't think its reasonable to expect someone making an argument against teabagging to have to somehow defend literally everything subsequently going away as if it were the last floodgate holding back the tusnami of wokeness that destroy the earth . You just... evaluate those things on a case-by-case basis.

We do live in a society, yep. It comes at some cost; Its not a good idea to go around deliberately pissing people off, or getting in people's faces IRL, to have some degree of self-awareness.

Clearly people OFTEN use teabagging with the intent of doing all that crap.

Not everything that happened in the olden days was better. People learn. Society moves forward. We re-evaluate things.

Its the forums, so I'll add a disclaimer that I'm not trying to be a jerk, either. Just emphatic. Its all just eso gamers having opinions.

SilverBride

Desiato wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

There's no reason for such displays of infantile insecurity and immaturity.

You might call it that, but another would say it's insecure and immature to try to get someone banned for taunting them.

If a player knows that teabagging can get them banned and they choose to taunt another player that way anyway, then they are the one responsible for getting banned, not the player that reported them.

Reporting a player doesn't get them banned. The action the player knowingly commits does.

[Edited to clarify]

randconfig

Desiato wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what about two players crouching and uncrouching repeatedly bothered you, exactly?

I know what the act is intended to represent, yet the way I described it is what they were actually doing. How did this affect you?

My theory is that there's like a small minority of players that for whatever reason, were not properly socialized growing up (e.g. sent to private/religious schooling instead of public schooling). Thus, they're overly offended by naughty/adult words and actions like t-bagging. Personally, I would have no problem with that, but since corporations cater to them even on rated Mature games, we all have to walk on eggshells/have our spaces invaded and ruled by their version of morality. It's frustrating, but what can you do.

randconfig

JavaRen wrote: »

So what I am hearing is "it"s not sexual, the name is a historic artifact, it's just taunting the person who lost to you."

So, while that is better, it still sounds immature and toxic to me.

And what I'm hearing from your response is your personal morality, which shouldn't be forced upon us, and yet the corporations do just that with the ToS.

Desiato

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

We do live in a society, yep. It comes at some cost; Its not a good idea to go around deliberately pissing people off, or getting in people's faces IRL, to have some degree of self-awareness.

Clearly people OFTEN use teabagging with the intent of doing all that crap.

You getting PO'd by the ambiguous action of another person is a you thing. You can't control the actions of another person, but you are in total control of how you respond to it.

LPapirius wrote: »

If you honestly believed in "live and let live" you wouldn't be defending offensive behavior.

Taunting is to be expected in competitive arenas like sports and pvp games. Even PVE games with contested content. So yes, live and let live applies here. Just because you find something distasteful doesn't mean another does.

And it's pretty clear through the history of PVP gaming, this is a complete non-issue to the VAST majority of participants.

If you think the other person is imagining assaulting someone, I can tell you that's all in your head. That is a crucial point because the activity itself is clearly ambiguous with no detail at all. It is what you make of it.

SilverBride wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

There's no reason for such displays of infantile insecurity and immaturity.

You might call it that, but another would say it's insecure and immature to try to get someone banned for taunting them.

If a player knows that teabagging can get them banned then they shouldn't do it. If they choose to taunt another player that way anyway then they are the one responsible for committing the action that got them banned, not the player that reported them.

Reporting a player doesn't get them banned. The action the player knowingly committed does.

Teabagging is not against the rules. Harassment is. Continuing any form of taunting after a player requests it can be interpreted as harassment and therefore can result in action by the service provider.

Frankly, IMO, most of the people in this thread objecting to it wouldn't be able to deal with any kind of competitive environment that isn't policed by HR.

whitecrow

LPapirius wrote: »

I think they should make it so if someone crouches three times in three seconds or less then they are CC'd in a curled up ball on the ground for 30 seconds and unable to defend themselves or do anything. They just have to lay there in CC'd in the fetal position and hope nobody comes and kills them.

What if I just stay crouched with my bum in their face, would that be less offensive?

SilverBride

Desiato wrote: »

Teabagging is not against the rules.

It should be. It simulates a lewd act and something really needs to be done about it.

The only way this is going to stop is if they change the crouching animation.

Desiato

whitecrow wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

I think they should make it so if someone crouches three times in three seconds or less then they are CC'd in a curled up ball on the ground for 30 seconds and unable to defend themselves or do anything. They just have to lay there in CC'd in the fetal position and hope nobody comes and kills them.

What if I just stay crouched with my bum in their face, would that be less offensive?

Or imagine if they simulated actual MURDER in a game!!

smallhammer

Why would anyone want to teabag? It's kinda' childish. Belongs in kinergarden, not in a game for grown ups.

Desiato

SilverBride wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Teabagging is not against the rules.

It should be. It simulates a lewd act and something really needs to be done about it.

The only way this is going to stop is if they change the crouching animation.

Thank god the devs are more reasonable than this.

tomofhyrule

SilverBride wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Teabagging is not against the rules.

It should be. It simulates a lewd act and something really needs to be done about it.

The only way this is going to stop is if they change the crouching animation.

I don't really care about the topic debate - I don't engage in it because taunting someone just seems rude in general.

But seriously, the "way to stop it" is to make it impossible to crouch? That's what annoys me. "Yes, because I am personally offended by person X taunting person Y, I will therefore make it so person Z is unable to do things like take screenshots!"

Sneak mode is useful for a lot more things than just annoying people. Should we ban all forms of personal transport because there are a lot of teenagers who like to loudly do dangerous and annoying stunts like wheelies in the middle of the cities?

SilverBride

There is a reason that teabagging isn't done in any real life competitive sports. It is lewd and completely unacceptable.

The fact that this is a game environment doesn't make it any more acceptable. The character doing the action may be just pixels but the player behind the character performing the act is a real person and they are doing it to taunt another real person.

Supreme_Atromancer

Desiato wrote: »

You getting PO'd by the ambiguous action of another person is a you thing. You can't control the actions of another person, but you are in total control of how you respond to it.

Sure; I understand your perspective, and I think it has value. But it goes both ways. If we're recruiting "society" for the argument, you have to recognise that it also dictates you don't go around getting in people's faces and doing stuff for the express reason of P'ing people O.

SilverBride

If we are not allowed to post the definition of teabagging on the forums because of how explicit it is, then how is it acceptable to actually do the act to another player in game?

Desiato

SilverBride wrote: »

If we are not allowed to post the definition of teabagging on the forums because of how explicit it is, then how is it acceptable to actually do the act to another player in game?

Because crouching up and down is not at all explicit. What you are imagining it to be and how you would describe it might be, but that's not what it actually is.

I assure you, no one doing it is imagining doing what you imagine it to be in explicit detail. There is no intent to assault or cause harm outside of irritation. It is merely a form of nyah.

allochthons

Desiato wrote: »

Teabagging is not against the rules. Harassment is. Continuing any form of taunting after a player requests it can be interpreted as harassment and therefore can result in action by the service provider.

There is no way in Cyrodiil to request the offending player stop the activity. At least on console. Not that I've found. So where does that leave the policy?

Number_51

I don't really come down on either side of the argument myself. It's not something I engage in and in my opinion it's crass and uncouth. When it happens to me I pretty much ignore it (I'm usually looking at the recap anyway) and move on. It does surprise me a bit about all the mentions of how common it is in sports and competitive arenas. In gaming this is probably undeniable, but in most sports, from recreational amateur leagues all the way up to the professionals, there is usually some type of penalty for taunting including: yellow card, 15 yard penalty, technical foul, 2 minutes in the box, code violation, lap hold penalty, all the way up to disqualification and ejection.

I'm definitely not in favor of changing a core game mechanic in an attempt to stop it though.

Desiato

allochthons wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

Teabagging is not against the rules. Harassment is. Continuing any form of taunting after a player requests it can be interpreted as harassment and therefore can result in action by the service provider.

There is no way in Cyrodiil to request the offending player stop the activity. At least on console. Not that I've found. So where does that leave the policy?

Does console not have in-game mail?

scrappy1342

Desiato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If we are not allowed to post the definition of teabagging on the forums because of how explicit it is, then how is it acceptable to actually do the act to another player in game?

Because crouching up and down is not at all explicit. What you are imagining it to be and how you would describe it might be, but that's not what it actually is.

I assure you, no one doing it is imagining doing what you imagine it to be in explicit detail. There is no intent to assault or cause harm outside of irritation. It is merely a form of nyah.

maybe this is the big difference here... because i assure you there are ppl who cannot see that without having that image. just because you don't see it that way doesn't mean that that is how everyone should see it.

totally love the crouch-three-times-in-a-row-and-get-stunned-in-fetal-position idea ^.^ also think changing the animation would be a great compromise. it doesn't have to change anything about how crouch works, simply how it looks. how it looks does absolutely nothing to the gameplay.

SilverBride

Desiato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If we are not allowed to post the definition of teabagging on the forums because of how explicit it is, then how is it acceptable to actually do the act to another player in game?

Because crouching up and down is not at all explicit. What you are imagining it to be and how you would describe it might be, but that's not what it actually is.

I assure you, no one doing it is imagining doing what you imagine it to be in explicit detail. There is no intent to assault or cause harm outside of irritation. It is merely a form of nyah.

Then what exactly is crouching up and down on another player so that their crotch is repeatedly bouncing in their face supposed to be? If it's not performing what is known as teabagging then why is it being called teabagging?

And why is it ok to do any behavior with the Intent to cause irritation to another player?