Do you think ZOS should rollback subclassing and focus on class balance instead?

old_scopie1945

Yes

Not a snowballs chance that will ever happen. Just wishful thinking on my part. I guess we will just have to suffer. How long, your guess is as good as mine.

Radiate77

No

If you don’t enjoy the game, why do you play it?

Thumbless_Bot

Other

This is their answer to balance.

If you give everyone access to everything no one can complain that this or that is too strong or weak because you can slot it too. It's obvious that they've thrown their hands up...

You get a skill and you get a skill and you get a skill... before you leave the studio make sure you check under your chair because.... you get another skill...

We are basically playing a constant beta and testing everything they do on live. Thats where we are now.

old_scopie1945

Yes

Radiate77 wrote: »

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

Not a snowballs chance that will ever happen. Just wishful thinking on my part. I guess we will just have to suffer. How long, your guess is as good as mine.

If you don’t enjoy the game, why do you play it?
Not meaning to sound rude, genuinely curious.

Well it is rude and disrespectful. It is not your place to question what others may or may not do within the law. So no chance that you will get an answer to your question from me.

old_scopie1945

Yes

Radiate77 wrote: »

If you don’t enjoy the game, why do you play it?

I see that you have now edited your quote.

Radiate77

No

Yes, because I wanted to untag you and make it more of a general question that anyone can answer.

old_scopie1945

Yes

Radiate77 wrote: »

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

Not a snowballs chance that will ever happen. Just wishful thinking on my part. I guess we will just have to suffer. How long, your guess is as good as mine.

If you don’t enjoy the game, why do you play it?
Not meaning to sound rude, genuinely curious.

Well it is rude and disrespectful. It is not your place to question what others may or may not do within the law. So no chance that you will get an answer to your question from me.

I intentionally disconnected you from the post before you posted this to make it more of a general question, not just for you.

But yeah; if you’re on here trashing a game that I and others enjoy, it is well within my right to ask why you play a game you trash on.

What are you on about? Did you not read OP's question "Do you think ZOS should rollback subclassing and focus on class balance instead?". How are we "trashing a game" when we are showing concern that ZOS are doing a great job of trashing the game, in our opinion. It indicates that we are concerned that subclassing, in its current form is affecting enjoyment and the possible future of the game. Also on how ZOS interacts with the player base.

Vrienda

No

God no, if the game starts getting good content again Subclassing will be core to my enjoyment of the game’s gameplay. I never want to play “pure” dragon knight again.

pinkpom

No

NB skill line has been dismantled.
NB is no longer viable without subclasses.

bmnoble

No

The moment they announced it as a feature, it was too late to back track, if they were going to their only real window was within a week of it going live now that we are well into halfway point of the second month since it went live and people have sunk a lot of time into the system it is far too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

DreamyLu

No

A different aspect in my case: I don't care about skills, I would prefer that the budget is assigned to something different, like additional PvE content (treasure hunts with hidden items as an example).

Silaf

Yes

They sold it so a rollback is impossible.

Carcamongus

No

I was having a good time before as a pure DK and now I'm having a good time being a DK who can summon his dead great-uncle for a chat. Sure, I could go back to being a pure fire-breather but I don't see a reason to do that, nor do I find it reasonable to deprive others who are having fun with subclassing of their good times. My only concern is that pure classes remain viable so subclassing ends up being merely a matter of preference and not some new layer of META.

Stamicka

Yes

I think a rollback is too extreme, but I do think subclassing should be changed so that it’s limited to overland only. So basically, subclassing wouldn’t be usable in any PvP areas or in Veteran PvE content.

If people are enjoying subclassing for questing or casual play, they should be able to keep it. Outside of that, it creates way too many issues.

MasterSpatula

Other

I wish it were possible to do this without any negative consequences, but it most certainly is not. The toothpaste is out of the tube. Trying to shove it in will only make a bigger mess than squeezing it out did.

Orbital78

It is too late for that. I do wish they were professional enough to plan skill line changes ahead of time. You kind of have to get used to being zos'd to stick with the game long term though.

Now that the other project is cancelled, I hope they give ESO's longevity serious thought.

MISTFORMBZZZ

Yes

YES and the fact so many people dont like it, is speaking for itself ngl

ESO_Nightingale

No

definitely not. i dont want subclassing rolled back.

silky_soft

Yes

Buff pure class or remove subclass.

SeaGtGruff

Other

No, they should not rollback subclassing. Note, I say this even though I haven't tried it out yet and am unsure if or when I ever will try it out-- which is not to say that I have no interest in it, but I tend to be a lazy creature of habit and I'm reasonably happy with my main characters as they are, plus I tend to rely much more on weapon skills than class skills. But subclassing is here to stay and should not be rolled back. If there are any problems with it, they should be ironed out, just as with anything else.

Yes, they should focus on class balancing-- which, in fact, they already do. But it will never be possible to completely balance things which are fundamentally different than each other, so I suspect that the only way they would ever completely balance the classes would be to remove classes entirely, or else by making each class's three skill lines functionally and numerically identical to those of the other classes, which would essentially make each class nothing more than a cosmetic reskin of every other class, and I seriously doubt that the playerbase would ever want that. Personally, I would be okay with it since I tend to play TES games in a "classless" manner by focusing more on weapons, but historically speaking classes are a very important part of character creation, backstory, and identity in RPGs.

H3rBie

No

I came back a few weeks ago, after almost 2 years without eso. The subclassing system really surprised me and I really enjoy it. Balancing could be better, but imho that's not a problem of the system, it's more a problem with some single skills.

However, to get this good balanced is for sure a big deal, especially when it comes to endgame. For an average player doing vet dungeons and maybe some vet trials it will not make much of a difference.

At the moment, for the scribing system is much more questionable, maybe because I don't really have a clue at the moment how to use it best for me.

Muizer

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

I find this poll fascinating, really. These forums are ground zero for Subclassing complaints, as they don’t exist elsewhere… yet the data is showing that you guys are a vocal minority here too.

Even if you took all the free “Other” votes, it would still not be enough for “Yes” to outweigh “No”.

Well to be fair, the poll asks a provocative and unreasonable question. If it asked whether one is happy with subclassing, the results might be a bit more relevant to your point.

I see this a lot in forums. People presenting "package deal" suggestions.

"I don't like the concept of subclassing at all"
"it should be rolled back"
"focus should be on balancing pure classes".

Because it's a package deal, they're putting everyone who disagrees with just one of these in the "No" camp. It is an excellent way to sabotage the affirmative option.

BXR_Lonestar

Yes

I don't think they will, but IMO it is something they should consider doing. I realize there are a lot of people excited about the game, but the more and more I play around with subclassing (and not building cookie-cutter builds that are being posted online), the more frustrated I find myself getting with the system. The system is supposed to make it easier to do higher DPS and have builds that have greater synergy between your main skill lines, and the more I play around with non-META builds, the more frustrated I keep getting because I see my dps drop in comparison to where my builds were before. It's not just me, as I see other people saying the same thing.

I want to be clear, this is strictly speaking about builds that are outside the META. I don't expect these builds to be reach the META, but I do expect them to be somewhat competitive to the degree that they would represent a DPS increase over my previous pure-class builds. And nearly all of them that I've tried outside the META just aren't.

At least for me, subclassing has not been this great boon people were saying it was going to be, and now we have balancing changes coming down the pike (and that we knew were going to come once we saw how much power creep there was). In other words, they released subclassing in a way that we knew was going to break the game, it broke the game, and now they're going to reign it in, and this is likely to make pure class builds even less powerful and competitive as compared to subclassed builds, which as I indicated above, I'm not really having fun with outside of playing a META build (which in itself is only fun for so long).

So overall for me, it is killing my desire to play the game. And I know I'm not the only one because I see lots of my guild members taking a break or spending a majority of their time playing other games.

Overall, unless there are vast improvements made to the system to make it easier to make synergistic builds, new sets, new scripts, and new class-specific sets, I can see this being the thing that causes me to play more Oblivion and less ESO during non-guild event days.

Eskibidus

Yes

ZOS should roll back to 2017 and restart from there

LesserCircle

Yes

It isn't going to happen of course but I'm still going ot voice my opinion about it, I dislike subclassing and it has made the game boring to play if you use it and unplayable if you don't.

Desiato

No

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I don't think they will, but IMO it is something they should consider doing. I realize there are a lot of people excited about the game, but the more and more I play around with subclassing (and not building cookie-cutter builds that are being posted online), the more frustrated I find myself getting with the system. The system is supposed to make it easier to do higher DPS and have builds that have greater synergy between your main skill lines, and the more I play around with non-META builds, the more frustrated I keep getting because I see my dps drop in comparison to where my builds were before. It's not just me, as I see other people saying the same thing.

No, you don't have to make a meta build. But that doesn't mean any combination is going to result in an improvement!

It's a game. Game have to be played by the rules. To do that, one must have an understanding of the rules. Many who play ESO do not, but after playing their classes for years, they either followed a guide or advice at some point or intuitively figured it out after a process of trial and error.

In general, if one wants their dps to improve, they must combine skill lines that provide the basics such as Major Brutality/Sorcery and Major Savagery/Prophecy. Next, they should consider passives. Then there are the minor buffs and things like berserker. Then they need to imagine their combat rotations.

Are you missing something important? Do not despair, you can lean into Scribing. Truthfully, Scribing can fix pretty much any shortcomings.

If one does those things, it is unlikely they will end up worse off than before. It doesn't even have to be 3 dps lines. For example, Warden's Lotus Flower from the Green Balance line grants Major Savagery/Prophecy when active. Warden is actually a good dps class and probably one of the best for overland and dungeons.

Of course, all of this also requires learning about the classes you want to subclass!

If one wants to meme or play a themed build, well of course they shouldn't expect it to just work. But again, they can lean into Scribing to correct any shortcomings.

Why would class purists struggle with this? Well, if someone is a purist and especially someone who has only played one class, of course they are predispositioned not to be flexible. That's on them, but it's also fine because their pure class is perfectly fine if they don't want to explore new realms with basic logic -- this is not rocket science, but some effort is required.

With all that said, is more dps what's truly important for one's activities? A lot of players will be better off with a pure class for the activities they do because pure classes are so well balanced and they're used to playing them. 3 dps line builds might have some serious shortcomings for some players.

I speak from experience. I am levelling subclassing on my mule account when I have spare moments by playing the game instead of grinding. Every build I'm using is completely off-meta and they've all been fine, even with low level skill lines. More than fine, it's been fun. Scribing is the key.

tl;dir: Major Brutality/Sorcery, Major Savagery/Prophecy, Scribing

Ulvich

Cooperharley wrote: »

They aren’t going to roll back subclassing. They’ve never, not once, rolled back a main feature. The best thing to do is give guided feedback on how to make the system better and not to keep asking for a rollback. Let’s be realistic and constructive here.

There’s just been 37 posts asking for this, and I get some people are unhappy with its implementation, but this specific option just won’t happen IMO.

They rolled back VR. No, wait... They did away with all together.

Iriidius

Yes

The question is if ZOS should rollback subclassing not if they will do so players shouldnt vote „No“ if they want rollback but know it wont happen.
If it does not happen anyway it is even more of a reason to vote yes to show your opposition to subclassing.

Iriidius

Yes

Seems like half the players only voted NO because they know ZOS WONT do anyway.

Cooperharley

No

Acapella75 wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Can we please, as a community, for the love of God, stop asking to remove subclassing. It. Is. Not. Going. To. Happen. Very frustrating to see these posts because there is no world where they ever do this. Give constructive criticism and directed feedback on how to make newly implemented systems better... so unhelpful.

People did that. They didn't listen. So while you feel it is "unhelpful", others clearly do not agree.

So, logically, you think the more nuclear option is more viable AND possible? That doesn’t make sense at all.

Look, there’s a ton of stuff they could’ve done better, objectively. But to say just because they didn’t listen to all feedback (or yet, even some feedback lol), doesn’t mean they’re going to jump to somehow removing an entire system for the game. How do you suppose they’d do it?

It’s not gunna happen. What’s more likely is they take feedback (albeit likely not enough of it) and make SOME changes