PTS Update 47 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

madmufffin

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Surprised i haven't seen a single mention of Xanmeer Spellweaver yet.

as far as i can see, most of us really like the general idea of the set, but the tuning is just abysmal. simply put, elementalist builds are not strong at all whatsoever. a set that only gives +5% damage done for elemental damage types and a minor increase to status effect damage is simply not enough. why wouldn't you run other better sets like order's wrath, or null arca, whorl of the depths or any other meta set?

niche item sets like this should ALWAYS be tuned high and this ain't it chief. i would actually be willing to bet that if you doubled both bonuses (10% elemental damage and 30% increased status effect damage) you'd start seeing people be excited about it and start posting parses. but as a baseline of 5 and 15% you won't even begin to see anyone care.

I'd argue that even if it were tripled, you'd still not see it beating other builds just by virtue of how weak elemental skills are and the passives for skill lines that you need to have to access said skills. Would be a very nice tip of the hat to frostden if that were the case though.

Also, can we please stop making all sets related to elements light armor. It's so frustrating trying to find ways to incorporate these into builds in a remotely optimized way.

I wish they'd ditch penetration off light armor so it can be competitive in organised groups

Crit chance and pen vs crit damage and weapon/spell damage is such a terrible trade off and doesn't even really have a function since no one really wears light armor in PVP where the pen actually matters anyways.

Uh wut? They are two sides of the same coin.

2% crit damage and healing vs 1.5% pen (pvp) damage done is an even trade (keep in mind the pen is worth that all the time, not 30-40% chance of the time)
Then the 1% crit from light vs roughly 85wd (the wd is about 2x more efficient based on meta crunched pvp damage setup)

The light/ medium tradoff there is fairly even. Maybe if zos didnt dismantle all of the various WD sets to an absurd degree the medium armor might be more valuable.

---

Medium armor instantly wins for acuity builds though, but that's another issue.

Yes that's exclusively of value in PVP. It does next to nothing in PVE, which is the issue.

MincMincMinc

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Surprised i haven't seen a single mention of Xanmeer Spellweaver yet.

as far as i can see, most of us really like the general idea of the set, but the tuning is just abysmal. simply put, elementalist builds are not strong at all whatsoever. a set that only gives +5% damage done for elemental damage types and a minor increase to status effect damage is simply not enough. why wouldn't you run other better sets like order's wrath, or null arca, whorl of the depths or any other meta set?

niche item sets like this should ALWAYS be tuned high and this ain't it chief. i would actually be willing to bet that if you doubled both bonuses (10% elemental damage and 30% increased status effect damage) you'd start seeing people be excited about it and start posting parses. but as a baseline of 5 and 15% you won't even begin to see anyone care.

I'd argue that even if it were tripled, you'd still not see it beating other builds just by virtue of how weak elemental skills are and the passives for skill lines that you need to have to access said skills. Would be a very nice tip of the hat to frostden if that were the case though.

Also, can we please stop making all sets related to elements light armor. It's so frustrating trying to find ways to incorporate these into builds in a remotely optimized way.

I wish they'd ditch penetration off light armor so it can be competitive in organised groups

Crit chance and pen vs crit damage and weapon/spell damage is such a terrible trade off and doesn't even really have a function since no one really wears light armor in PVP where the pen actually matters anyways.

Uh wut? They are two sides of the same coin.

2% crit damage and healing vs 1.5% pen (pvp) damage done is an even trade (keep in mind the pen is worth that all the time, not 30-40% chance of the time)
Then the 1% crit from light vs roughly 85wd (the wd is about 2x more efficient based on meta crunched pvp damage setup)

The light/ medium tradoff there is fairly even. Maybe if zos didnt dismantle all of the various WD sets to an absurd degree the medium armor might be more valuable.

---

Medium armor instantly wins for acuity builds though, but that's another issue.

regardless of it being a supposedly "even trade". light armor is rarely used at all in organised groups, especially less so at higher piece counts. nearly everyone uses medium armor and whenever there is an option for it to be of any type, eg, class set or crafted, medium is always picked in that spot.

I don't believe that the penetration value is actually that valuable because history has shown that if there's an option, no-one is picking light armor, probably because its easier to build penetration for the group than crit damage is.

in addition to this, healers get literally nothing out of penetration. the only statistical boost healers get to their healing is slightly increased critical chance which doesn't really make that much sense to me.

i think if we were going to be serious about balancing armor types, it'd probably be better to split it between both medium and light armor, give it to heavy armor, and then replace concentration with +1% dmg done, dmg shield strength and healing done per piece of light armor slotted. going back to the initial issue, because light armor does less healing than medium armor, that makes it harder to justify its reduced armor penalty and downsides. light armor is trash and it needs to be revisited. its also a lot harder to sustain magicka settups when using medium despite getting much more dps out of them.

Are you talking pve or pvp? Pve it makes sense because zos decided to make pen not worth anything or so free it doesn't matter. Funny enough PvP is more balanced in this aspect because there is good tension between % modifiers.
- Pen is anti armor 660 = 1% damage done in pvp (660 coming from you being lvl66 technically, in pve mobs are lvl 50 so 500 pen = 1% damage done. IDK zos why u do dis?)
- Damage done
- Crit Chance AND Crit % damage

PvP light armor is ignored because while offering comperable damage, survive ability wise you take so much physical damage that you will just get run over by half the playerbase. This is an issue with the "new" armor passives they did a while back. IMO the old passives were better and far more balanced.

madmufffin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Surprised i haven't seen a single mention of Xanmeer Spellweaver yet.

as far as i can see, most of us really like the general idea of the set, but the tuning is just abysmal. simply put, elementalist builds are not strong at all whatsoever. a set that only gives +5% damage done for elemental damage types and a minor increase to status effect damage is simply not enough. why wouldn't you run other better sets like order's wrath, or null arca, whorl of the depths or any other meta set?

niche item sets like this should ALWAYS be tuned high and this ain't it chief. i would actually be willing to bet that if you doubled both bonuses (10% elemental damage and 30% increased status effect damage) you'd start seeing people be excited about it and start posting parses. but as a baseline of 5 and 15% you won't even begin to see anyone care.

I'd argue that even if it were tripled, you'd still not see it beating other builds just by virtue of how weak elemental skills are and the passives for skill lines that you need to have to access said skills. Would be a very nice tip of the hat to frostden if that were the case though.

Also, can we please stop making all sets related to elements light armor. It's so frustrating trying to find ways to incorporate these into builds in a remotely optimized way.

I wish they'd ditch penetration off light armor so it can be competitive in organised groups

Crit chance and pen vs crit damage and weapon/spell damage is such a terrible trade off and doesn't even really have a function since no one really wears light armor in PVP where the pen actually matters anyways.

Uh wut? They are two sides of the same coin.

2% crit damage and healing vs 1.5% pen (pvp) damage done is an even trade (keep in mind the pen is worth that all the time, not 30-40% chance of the time)
Then the 1% crit from light vs roughly 85wd (the wd is about 2x more efficient based on meta crunched pvp damage setup)

The light/ medium tradoff there is fairly even. Maybe if zos didnt dismantle all of the various WD sets to an absurd degree the medium armor might be more valuable.

---

Medium armor instantly wins for acuity builds though, but that's another issue.

Yes that's exclusively of value in PVP. It does next to nothing in PVE, which is the issue.

Sure, but dont misinterpret the issue. The real issue is that zos made pve only use half the stats in the game and then poorly utilizes them. Maybe mobs shouldn't all be the same armor rating. Maybe some mobs should crit so critical resistance is necessary. I mean 18.5k pen is a joke, major/minor breach does half of that already. Then in a 12 man group you could probably squeeze out the other half probably without anyone building into it much.

YandereGirlfriend

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Surprised i haven't seen a single mention of Xanmeer Spellweaver yet.

as far as i can see, most of us really like the general idea of the set, but the tuning is just abysmal. simply put, elementalist builds are not strong at all whatsoever. a set that only gives +5% damage done for elemental damage types and a minor increase to status effect damage is simply not enough. why wouldn't you run other better sets like order's wrath, or null arca, whorl of the depths or any other meta set?

niche item sets like this should ALWAYS be tuned high and this ain't it chief. i would actually be willing to bet that if you doubled both bonuses (10% elemental damage and 30% increased status effect damage) you'd start seeing people be excited about it and start posting parses. but as a baseline of 5 and 15% you won't even begin to see anyone care.

I'd argue that even if it were tripled, you'd still not see it beating other builds just by virtue of how weak elemental skills are and the passives for skill lines that you need to have to access said skills. Would be a very nice tip of the hat to frostden if that were the case though.

Also, can we please stop making all sets related to elements light armor. It's so frustrating trying to find ways to incorporate these into builds in a remotely optimized way.

I wish they'd ditch penetration off light armor so it can be competitive in organised groups

Crit chance and pen vs crit damage and weapon/spell damage is such a terrible trade off and doesn't even really have a function since no one really wears light armor in PVP where the pen actually matters anyways.

Uh wut? They are two sides of the same coin.

2% crit damage and healing vs 1.5% pen (pvp) damage done is an even trade (keep in mind the pen is worth that all the time, not 30-40% chance of the time)
Then the 1% crit from light vs roughly 85wd (the wd is about 2x more efficient based on meta crunched pvp damage setup)

The light/ medium tradoff there is fairly even. Maybe if zos didnt dismantle all of the various WD sets to an absurd degree the medium armor might be more valuable.

---

Medium armor instantly wins for acuity builds though, but that's another issue.

regardless of it being a supposedly "even trade". light armor is rarely used at all in organised groups, especially less so at higher piece counts. nearly everyone uses medium armor and whenever there is an option for it to be of any type, eg, class set or crafted, medium is always picked in that spot.

I don't believe that the penetration value is actually that valuable because history has shown that if there's an option, no-one is picking light armor, probably because its easier to build penetration for the group than crit damage is.

in addition to this, healers get literally nothing out of penetration. the only statistical boost healers get to their healing is slightly increased critical chance which doesn't really make that much sense to me.

i think if we were going to be serious about balancing armor types, it'd probably be better to split it between both medium and light armor, give it to heavy armor, and then replace concentration with +1% dmg done, dmg shield strength and healing done per piece of light armor slotted. going back to the initial issue, because light armor does less healing than medium armor, that makes it harder to justify its reduced armor penalty and downsides. light armor is trash and it needs to be revisited. its also a lot harder to sustain magicka settups when using medium despite getting much more dps out of them.

Are you talking pve or pvp? Pve it makes sense because zos decided to make pen not worth anything or so free it doesn't matter. Funny enough PvP is more balanced in this aspect because there is good tension between % modifiers.
- Pen is anti armor 660 = 1% damage done in pvp (660 coming from you being lvl66 technically, in pve mobs are lvl 50 so 500 pen = 1% damage done. IDK zos why u do dis?)
- Damage done
- Crit Chance AND Crit % damage

PvP light armor is ignored because while offering comperable damage, survive ability wise you take so much physical damage that you will just get run over by half the playerbase. This is an issue with the "new" armor passives they did a while back. IMO the old passives were better and far more balanced.

Definitely.

Nobody uses LA in PvP because the penalties are way too severe to justify it.

Meanwhile, MA, the Golden Child, has no penalties at all - only pure buffs and advantages. That doesn't make sense! Not to mention that it has the best active ability in Shuffle.

Armor should probably all have the same base Armor Ratings but then have special mods against damage types (e.g. bonus against Mag for LA and bonus against Phys for HA, with MA receiving no bonus). Drop the penalties thing altogether.

MincMincMinc

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Surprised i haven't seen a single mention of Xanmeer Spellweaver yet.

as far as i can see, most of us really like the general idea of the set, but the tuning is just abysmal. simply put, elementalist builds are not strong at all whatsoever. a set that only gives +5% damage done for elemental damage types and a minor increase to status effect damage is simply not enough. why wouldn't you run other better sets like order's wrath, or null arca, whorl of the depths or any other meta set?

niche item sets like this should ALWAYS be tuned high and this ain't it chief. i would actually be willing to bet that if you doubled both bonuses (10% elemental damage and 30% increased status effect damage) you'd start seeing people be excited about it and start posting parses. but as a baseline of 5 and 15% you won't even begin to see anyone care.

I'd argue that even if it were tripled, you'd still not see it beating other builds just by virtue of how weak elemental skills are and the passives for skill lines that you need to have to access said skills. Would be a very nice tip of the hat to frostden if that were the case though.

Also, can we please stop making all sets related to elements light armor. It's so frustrating trying to find ways to incorporate these into builds in a remotely optimized way.

I wish they'd ditch penetration off light armor so it can be competitive in organised groups

Crit chance and pen vs crit damage and weapon/spell damage is such a terrible trade off and doesn't even really have a function since no one really wears light armor in PVP where the pen actually matters anyways.

Uh wut? They are two sides of the same coin.

2% crit damage and healing vs 1.5% pen (pvp) damage done is an even trade (keep in mind the pen is worth that all the time, not 30-40% chance of the time)
Then the 1% crit from light vs roughly 85wd (the wd is about 2x more efficient based on meta crunched pvp damage setup)

The light/ medium tradoff there is fairly even. Maybe if zos didnt dismantle all of the various WD sets to an absurd degree the medium armor might be more valuable.

---

Medium armor instantly wins for acuity builds though, but that's another issue.

regardless of it being a supposedly "even trade". light armor is rarely used at all in organised groups, especially less so at higher piece counts. nearly everyone uses medium armor and whenever there is an option for it to be of any type, eg, class set or crafted, medium is always picked in that spot.

I don't believe that the penetration value is actually that valuable because history has shown that if there's an option, no-one is picking light armor, probably because its easier to build penetration for the group than crit damage is.

in addition to this, healers get literally nothing out of penetration. the only statistical boost healers get to their healing is slightly increased critical chance which doesn't really make that much sense to me.

i think if we were going to be serious about balancing armor types, it'd probably be better to split it between both medium and light armor, give it to heavy armor, and then replace concentration with +1% dmg done, dmg shield strength and healing done per piece of light armor slotted. going back to the initial issue, because light armor does less healing than medium armor, that makes it harder to justify its reduced armor penalty and downsides. light armor is trash and it needs to be revisited. its also a lot harder to sustain magicka settups when using medium despite getting much more dps out of them.

Are you talking pve or pvp? Pve it makes sense because zos decided to make pen not worth anything or so free it doesn't matter. Funny enough PvP is more balanced in this aspect because there is good tension between % modifiers.
- Pen is anti armor 660 = 1% damage done in pvp (660 coming from you being lvl66 technically, in pve mobs are lvl 50 so 500 pen = 1% damage done. IDK zos why u do dis?)
- Damage done
- Crit Chance AND Crit % damage

PvP light armor is ignored because while offering comperable damage, survive ability wise you take so much physical damage that you will just get run over by half the playerbase. This is an issue with the "new" armor passives they did a while back. IMO the old passives were better and far more balanced.

Definitely.

Nobody uses LA in PvP because the penalties are way too severe to justify it.

Meanwhile, MA, the Golden Child, has no penalties at all - only pure buffs and advantages. That doesn't make sense! Not to mention that it has the best active ability in Shuffle.

Armor should probably all have the same base Armor Ratings but then have special mods against damage types (e.g. bonus against Mag for LA and bonus against Phys for HA, with MA receiving no bonus). Drop the penalties thing altogether.

The balancing based on role play was altogether a terrible idea. For years the three armor types were very well used and balanced. I still dont get why they drastically changed those.

Granted I also dont understand why they gutted most of the weapons playstyles back in elsweyr either. Dizzy became a boring generic spammable. Reverb s&b builds were removed from the game. DW is hardly used other than the execute that hardly works because of how fast people are now adays. But thats another rant

Around the same time I think most of the Weapon damage sets got random clunky cooldown mechanics too that make them unusable

madmufffin

I get that we're speaking largely from different experiences with PVE vs PVP, which is probably the main source of disagreement here. I'm speaking largely to PVE where you see one piece of light armor being worn unless a set is absurdly overtuned and worth making it double barred with Velothi like Runecarver was. It just doesn't have valuable passives for PVE and from my understanding, isn't really worn that much in PVP because of the low armor value. But looping back, please triple the value of Xanmeer. K thanks

Zyaneth_Bal

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Light armor is used less because of it’s associated drawbacks, and in part due to the fact that the best DPS sets of the past half decade have been all medium armor sets, excluding Bahsei for a year.

Both function pretty similar, and LA groups do exist. It’s just much less common as the best LA sets, like P. Siroria, are a nightmare to obtain and are pretty niché, where anyone can just go run some normal dungeons for Pillar of Nirn, a set that’s looking much better with all of the nerfs to Riptide and Relequen coming.

even when we do use those light armor sets, its almost always on jewelery and weapons to avoid having to use it on the body.

Yeah, it’s because you know the likelihood of finding yourself in a LA group is much lower than a MA one. I will say, that the additional pen is pretty great in Solo/Small Scale content though.

at the very least i'd wish they'd give light armor some healing and damage shield strength bonus on concentration too.

I really like this idea. Both heavy and medium armour have more resistances and some extra survivability on top while light armour has none, it would be a nice addition to even them out a little in that regard, this bonus suits light armour too imo. Not to mention that medium armour has no damage taken penalties while light armour does and these penalties actually carry a lot more weight than any source of mitigation in damage calculations.
It needs a bit more damage too to compete with medium armour, maybe 2% crit chance per piece up from 1% for starters.

Zyaneth_Bal

On live Rakkhat’s Voidmantle is in a really good spot both with Overload and without it. It’s not the best but still quite competitive and enables new fun playstyles. And overload in particular requires a certain amount of effort to make full use of voidmantle too.

Voidmantle was nerfed because it doesn't work exactly the way they intended (even though it's perfectly fine this way). As I understand it Overload has been disabled for a different reason: Voidmantle disables resource restoration from heavy attacks but Overload doen't restore resources, so it ignores this penalty and thus shouldn't benefit from extra damage. To be honest this sounds like an incredibly silly reason to me. We just can't have nice things.

Voidmantle’s function is essentially to switch roles of light and heavy attacks. Light attacks are used for damage inbetween skills while heavy attacks are used to restore resources while dealing less damage overall. Voidmantle makes light attack restore resources and nerf it's damage, to put it in heavy attack's place, while heavy attack no longer restores resources because it's function now is to deal damage, additionally receives a buff partially to make up for the fact that it's the main source of damage and thus less skills are used and more damage on top because mythic needs to result in power net positive. Therefore, if Overload heavy attacks happen to already not restore resources it's fine, because disabled heavy attack restoration is not in fact a true penalty, more of a change. I would call it a penalty if Voidmantle didn't enable light attacks to restore resources instead but they do and this restoration acts excactly as that of heavy attacks, further proving my point.

Hazorix

I would like to see the 2 piece bonus for Stonehulk Domination to be max health instead of healing taken so It's easier to slot as an alternative to Turning Tide.

Radiate77

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for destroying Coral Riptide, my favorite PvP set!

You guys really knocked it out of the park with that change that removed any benefit whatsoever to healing yourself when you’re tapped out of stamina!

MincMincMinc

Radiate77 wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for destroying Coral Riptide, my favorite PvP set!

You guys really knocked it out of the park with that change that removed any benefit whatsoever to healing yourself when you’re tapped out of stamina!

Just hop on the band wagon and play your assassination crit build with the rest of us. There is no counter to it and it is the most efficient stat driven setup you can do.

We wont have WD build paths until zos gets rid of all of the cooldowns thrown onto WD sets. There are so many old sets that could come back and still be balanced today. Like Old Briar, Old 7th, Old Fury, Old Ravager, Truth, etc. The current pen, %dmg, and crit damage sets are equivalent to having a 750-800wd bonus nearly 100% uptime. For some reason we have WD sets with forced cooldowns or downtimes with only 300-450wd.

madmufffin

Burning spellweave may as well be 100% uptime at this point with how much power creep there has been. Fix frostbite and make a worthwhile shock set and we can at least pretend we're allowed to have fun.

MincMincMinc

madmufffin wrote: »

Burning spellweave may as well be 100% uptime at this point with how much power creep there has been. Fix frostbite and make a worthwhile shock set and we can at least pretend we're allowed to have fun.

BSW is still only 490 for 8s and then a 4s+ downtime so it is a 66% uptime at best, but more than likely falling down to a 50% uptime at times. Where something like stuhns or essence thief is closer to a 800wd set proc with 100% uptime in combat when played correctly.

Not that I think stuhns or essence needs to be changed, just that all of the old WD set designs were far more playful and interactive than the boring mandatory cooldowns. There is something to say about adjusting your weaving playstyle to keep the procs rolling vs being a slave to watching a cooldown timer while you block cast healing soul.

YandereGirlfriend

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Burning spellweave may as well be 100% uptime at this point with how much power creep there has been. Fix frostbite and make a worthwhile shock set and we can at least pretend we're allowed to have fun.

BSW is still only 490 for 8s and then a 4s+ downtime so it is a 66% uptime at best, but more than likely falling down to a 50% uptime at times. Where something like stuhns or essence thief is closer to a 800wd set proc with 100% uptime in combat when played correctly.

Not that I think stuhns or essence needs to be changed, just that all of the old WD set designs were far more playful and interactive than the boring mandatory cooldowns. There is something to say about adjusting your weaving playstyle to keep the procs rolling vs being a slave to watching a cooldown timer while you block cast healing soul.

IIRC, Fury was singled-out by zerging players because it was "unfair" that skilled 1vX'ers could wear Heavy Armor and turtle in a tower with Balorgh before deleting the zerging players with their ult combo.

Except that that still happens (and should always happen as long as skill is rightfully able to counteract numbers of players) simply via alternative means these days.

Except that Fury, etc. were left in the dust after their nerfs never to see usage again. Which is a shame.

(Though the Heavy WD sets do throw in relief how dumb it is that healing scales off of damage stats, but that is a problem for another day, LMAO.)

Radiate77

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for destroying Coral Riptide, my favorite PvP set!

You guys really knocked it out of the park with that change that removed any benefit whatsoever to healing yourself when you’re tapped out of stamina!

Just hop on the band wagon and play your assassination crit build with the rest of us. There is no counter to it and it is the most efficient stat driven setup you can do.

We wont have WD build paths until zos gets rid of all of the cooldowns thrown onto WD sets. There are so many old sets that could come back and still be balanced today. Like Old Briar, Old 7th, Old Fury, Old Ravager, Truth, etc. The current pen, %dmg, and crit damage sets are equivalent to having a 750-800wd bonus nearly 100% uptime. For some reason we have WD sets with forced cooldowns or downtimes with only 300-450wd.

This set change just killed my not-subclassed Templar. All it had for defense were heals and they scaled great with Riptide, and someone at ZOS pulled out the dartboard and said, how can we standardize trial sets?

By screwing PvP, that’s how.

madmufffin

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Burning spellweave may as well be 100% uptime at this point with how much power creep there has been. Fix frostbite and make a worthwhile shock set and we can at least pretend we're allowed to have fun.

BSW is still only 490 for 8s and then a 4s+ downtime so it is a 66% uptime at best, but more than likely falling down to a 50% uptime at times. Where something like stuhns or essence thief is closer to a 800wd set proc with 100% uptime in combat when played correctly.

Not that I think stuhns or essence needs to be changed, just that all of the old WD set designs were far more playful and interactive than the boring mandatory cooldowns. There is something to say about adjusting your weaving playstyle to keep the procs rolling vs being a slave to watching a cooldown timer while you block cast healing soul.

That's why I'm saying BSW should allow for 100% uptime. It's a very limited proc value and shouldn't be kept at 66% uptime. Make it capable of 100% uptime. 490 spell damage is hardly a broken 5 piece at this point in the game, so let it be usable in content.

MincMincMinc

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Burning spellweave may as well be 100% uptime at this point with how much power creep there has been. Fix frostbite and make a worthwhile shock set and we can at least pretend we're allowed to have fun.

BSW is still only 490 for 8s and then a 4s+ downtime so it is a 66% uptime at best, but more than likely falling down to a 50% uptime at times. Where something like stuhns or essence thief is closer to a 800wd set proc with 100% uptime in combat when played correctly.

Not that I think stuhns or essence needs to be changed, just that all of the old WD set designs were far more playful and interactive than the boring mandatory cooldowns. There is something to say about adjusting your weaving playstyle to keep the procs rolling vs being a slave to watching a cooldown timer while you block cast healing soul.

IIRC, Fury was singled-out by zerging players because it was "unfair" that skilled 1vX'ers could wear Heavy Armor and turtle in a tower with Balorgh before deleting the zerging players with their ult combo.

Except that that still happens (and should always happen as long as skill is rightfully able to counteract numbers of players) simply via alternative means these days.

Except that Fury, etc. were left in the dust after their nerfs never to see usage again. Which is a shame.

(Though the Heavy WD sets do throw in relief how dumb it is that healing scales off of damage stats, but that is a problem for another day, LMAO.)

Yeah now adays it really is just that the wd active skill playstyle has been deleted and all that remains is the proc time waiting room type of playstyle that remains. Now instead of brawling with fury, I just have to run around at 200% movement speed for 30s until my procs can line up again.

For a time Fury was based on crit damage received and could be shot down by lower crit builds in dueling environments. Also, the whole concept is that you had to put yourself in a very disadvantageous position combat wise to make full use of the set. Balorgh was also a major issue especially with how strong warden was with its ult gen.

At the same time dont forget that you had old ravager, briar, clever, truth, sword-singer......it wasn't a singular one set Rallyingcry+acuity meta as much as people claim it was. Each had their own playstyles and use cases. PvP had multiple handfuls of sets in the meta rotation, whereas now it is maybe 5-10 if we want to count the bonus sets like mythic and trainee?

• Rallying
• acuity
• bloodspawn
• Mono
• Balorgh
• Trainee
• Stuhns
• Essence thief
• Daedric trickery?

YandereGirlfriend

MincMincMinc wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Burning spellweave may as well be 100% uptime at this point with how much power creep there has been. Fix frostbite and make a worthwhile shock set and we can at least pretend we're allowed to have fun.

BSW is still only 490 for 8s and then a 4s+ downtime so it is a 66% uptime at best, but more than likely falling down to a 50% uptime at times. Where something like stuhns or essence thief is closer to a 800wd set proc with 100% uptime in combat when played correctly.

Not that I think stuhns or essence needs to be changed, just that all of the old WD set designs were far more playful and interactive than the boring mandatory cooldowns. There is something to say about adjusting your weaving playstyle to keep the procs rolling vs being a slave to watching a cooldown timer while you block cast healing soul.

IIRC, Fury was singled-out by zerging players because it was "unfair" that skilled 1vX'ers could wear Heavy Armor and turtle in a tower with Balorgh before deleting the zerging players with their ult combo.

Except that that still happens (and should always happen as long as skill is rightfully able to counteract numbers of players) simply via alternative means these days.

Except that Fury, etc. were left in the dust after their nerfs never to see usage again. Which is a shame.

(Though the Heavy WD sets do throw in relief how dumb it is that healing scales off of damage stats, but that is a problem for another day, LMAO.)

Yeah now adays it really is just that the wd active skill playstyle has been deleted and all that remains is the proc time waiting room type of playstyle that remains. Now instead of brawling with fury, I just have to run around at 200% movement speed for 30s until my procs can line up again.

For a time Fury was based on crit damage received and could be shot down by lower crit builds in dueling environments. Also, the whole concept is that you had to put yourself in a very disadvantageous position combat wise to make full use of the set. Balorgh was also a major issue especially with how strong warden was with its ult gen.

At the same time dont forget that you had old ravager, briar, clever, truth, sword-singer......it wasn't a singular one set Rallyingcry+acuity meta as much as people claim it was. Each had their own playstyles and use cases. PvP had multiple handfuls of sets in the meta rotation, whereas now it is maybe 5-10 if we want to count the bonus sets like mythic and trainee?

• Rallying
• acuity
• bloodspawn
• Mono
• Balorgh
• Trainee
• Stuhns
• Essence thief
• Daedric trickery?

Indeed, my StamSorc definitely misses 7th Legion before it became a dead set.

MincMincMinc

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Burning spellweave may as well be 100% uptime at this point with how much power creep there has been. Fix frostbite and make a worthwhile shock set and we can at least pretend we're allowed to have fun.

BSW is still only 490 for 8s and then a 4s+ downtime so it is a 66% uptime at best, but more than likely falling down to a 50% uptime at times. Where something like stuhns or essence thief is closer to a 800wd set proc with 100% uptime in combat when played correctly.

Not that I think stuhns or essence needs to be changed, just that all of the old WD set designs were far more playful and interactive than the boring mandatory cooldowns. There is something to say about adjusting your weaving playstyle to keep the procs rolling vs being a slave to watching a cooldown timer while you block cast healing soul.

IIRC, Fury was singled-out by zerging players because it was "unfair" that skilled 1vX'ers could wear Heavy Armor and turtle in a tower with Balorgh before deleting the zerging players with their ult combo.

Except that that still happens (and should always happen as long as skill is rightfully able to counteract numbers of players) simply via alternative means these days.

Except that Fury, etc. were left in the dust after their nerfs never to see usage again. Which is a shame.

(Though the Heavy WD sets do throw in relief how dumb it is that healing scales off of damage stats, but that is a problem for another day, LMAO.)

Yeah now adays it really is just that the wd active skill playstyle has been deleted and all that remains is the proc time waiting room type of playstyle that remains. Now instead of brawling with fury, I just have to run around at 200% movement speed for 30s until my procs can line up again.

For a time Fury was based on crit damage received and could be shot down by lower crit builds in dueling environments. Also, the whole concept is that you had to put yourself in a very disadvantageous position combat wise to make full use of the set. Balorgh was also a major issue especially with how strong warden was with its ult gen.

At the same time dont forget that you had old ravager, briar, clever, truth, sword-singer......it wasn't a singular one set Rallyingcry+acuity meta as much as people claim it was. Each had their own playstyles and use cases. PvP had multiple handfuls of sets in the meta rotation, whereas now it is maybe 5-10 if we want to count the bonus sets like mythic and trainee?

• Rallying
• acuity
• bloodspawn
• Mono
• Balorgh
• Trainee
• Stuhns
• Essence thief
• Daedric trickery?

Indeed, my StamSorc definitely misses 7th Legion before it became a dead set.

lol 7th was like the only stamsorc heal back then that and troll king.....until zos removed health recovery from the game. I miss the old meathead raw stat builds. I think Ayleid is the only way to mimic that old playstyle, but sadly I don't think it is as viable because of the crit resist issue right now. Impen does not give nearly enough.

YandereGirlfriend

PvE folk please chime in here.

Am I correct in interpreting that the basic Crafted set Tide-Born Wildstalker actually has a stronger 5-piece bonus than the new Bahsei's Mania trial set? Tide-Born is +12% (direct damage, but that's the only type that matters nowadays) to monsters and Bahsei's at the max proc state is 10%. One is also conditional (and very annoying) versus the other is literally free with 100% uptime.

Why would this possibly be so? Nothing against Crafted sets but a Trial set should obviously be providing stronger effects than sets that one can literally buy off of the guild traders for minimal gold or else make for themselves. Otherwise it begs the question - why bother doing the trial at all?

This is more of a general gripe that sets from difficult content are generally not much better than very basic sets, which eliminates any semblance of accomplishment. If one can simply buy their way into end-game gear then what is the point of end-game gear at all?

To be clear, this isn't a "Nerf Tide-Born" request but rather some encouragement to hopefully BUFF Bahsei's and other trial sets (and Infinite Archive sets, DLC dungeons, etc.).

universal_wrath

I know this is late, but when will devs address older sets that have conflicting bonus stats? For example Storm knight set (heavy armor) give armor and health bonus on 2-4 pieces which is good for tanking, except that its last bonus 5 pices is a proc damage that scale with highest offensive stats. Another set is twlight light remedy set (light armor) it gives spell damage and recovery, but its 5th piece bonus is proc heal that scale with highest stamina/magicka. How are we supposed to use these sets when they have bonuses that do not support each other?

Another point is that why there are still no perfected old trial sets? And why there are very few meduim armor support sets vs light and heavy?

preevious

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

PvE folk please chime in here.

Am I correct in interpreting that the basic Crafted set Tide-Born Wildstalker actually has a stronger 5-piece bonus than the new Bahsei's Mania trial set? Tide-Born is +12% (direct damage, but that's the only type that matters nowadays) to monsters and Bahsei's at the max proc state is 10%. One is also conditional (and very annoying) versus the other is literally free with 100% uptime.

Why would this possibly be so? Nothing against Crafted sets but a Trial set should obviously be providing stronger effects than sets that one can literally buy off of the guild traders for minimal gold or else make for themselves. Otherwise it begs the question - why bother doing the trial at all?

This is more of a general gripe that sets from difficult content are generally not much better than very basic sets, which eliminates any semblance of accomplishment. If one can simply buy their way into end-game gear then what is the point of end-game gear at all?

To be clear, this isn't a "Nerf Tide-Born" request but rather some encouragement to hopefully BUFF Bahsei's and other trial sets (and Infinite Archive sets, DLC dungeons, etc.).

Tide-born is certainly a good crafted set, true. But it is still inferior to most trial sets.
Now, yeah, I concurr that the proc condition en bahsei makes it so-so ..

1. It has only 3 non-5 pieces lines, where perfected trial gear have 4.
2. Does not have minor slayer
3. Only buffs direct damage (so, in essence, only your LA and spammable, the rest being dots in a normal rotation)
4. Also, it has penetration .. good for solo play or 4-mans ... useless for trials where you possibly already over-penetrate.

Renato90085

Tide born better than bahsei main reason just it can buff meta skill/set and we not have any set/skill reward we keep low mag
If arc beam still dot,null arca not buffed,this will a dead set only nb/sorc/necro will run sometime
I think Zos just didn't expect it that far.
the some build/set can be 1+1>2 part

YandereGirlfriend

preevious wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

PvE folk please chime in here.

Am I correct in interpreting that the basic Crafted set Tide-Born Wildstalker actually has a stronger 5-piece bonus than the new Bahsei's Mania trial set? Tide-Born is +12% (direct damage, but that's the only type that matters nowadays) to monsters and Bahsei's at the max proc state is 10%. One is also conditional (and very annoying) versus the other is literally free with 100% uptime.

Why would this possibly be so? Nothing against Crafted sets but a Trial set should obviously be providing stronger effects than sets that one can literally buy off of the guild traders for minimal gold or else make for themselves. Otherwise it begs the question - why bother doing the trial at all?

This is more of a general gripe that sets from difficult content are generally not much better than very basic sets, which eliminates any semblance of accomplishment. If one can simply buy their way into end-game gear then what is the point of end-game gear at all?

To be clear, this isn't a "Nerf Tide-Born" request but rather some encouragement to hopefully BUFF Bahsei's and other trial sets (and Infinite Archive sets, DLC dungeons, etc.).

Tide-born is certainly a good crafted set, true. But it is still inferior to most trial sets.
Now, yeah, I concurr that the proc condition en bahsei makes it so-so ..

1. It has only 3 non-5 pieces lines, where perfected trial gear have 4.
2. Does not have minor slayer
3. Only buffs direct damage (so, in essence, only your LA and spammable, the rest being dots in a normal rotation)
4. Also, it has penetration .. good for solo play or 4-mans ... useless for trials where you possibly already over-penetrate.

You severely under-sell Tide-Born. It benefits basically all of the damage dealt by meta damage configurations.

These trial sets ought to be like +15% for Bahsei and then like +1000 WD for the various WD trial sets.

They are all super under-tuned compared to options that are far quicker and easier to obtain.

YandereGirlfriend

Rather than nerfing Coral Riptide you should instead be buffing Harmony In Chaos and Siroria.

You correctly assess that Coral Riptide is by far the easiest set to wring maximum value out of, and thus should be tuned below the others, but these values aren't it.

In terms of ease of use and risk vs. reward, Harmony In Chaos should have the most damage because it requires a specific raid composition as well as consistently interacting with the synergy mechanic (which most players, even in 2025, completely ignore). It is also significantly more punishing to lose the stacks on since synergies have individual global timers of 20 seconds and you cannot simply rebuild stacks instantly like with Yandir's, etc. If you lose those stacks then you're going to have to wait for nearly a minute or longer to power back up. That sort of risk mandates a fitting reward.

TLDR; Set Coral back to +700 and buff Harmony In Chaos and Siroria both up to +1000 (with Harmony being the stronger of the two by a small margin).

Numeriko

Love most of what I'm seeing with this update; really stellar, but might I suggest a tweak here:

Stonehulk Domination
When you taunt an enemy, apply Major Vulnerability to them, increasing their damage taken by 10% for 12 seconds. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

I'm looking forward to running this as more up-time at the cost of not being AoE thus only effecting one target, but typically I renew my taunt before it's 15 second timer expires, but if I can only apply this after 15 seconds re-applying my taunt before the 15 second taunt expires will not re-apply the effect.

Maybe 12 second cooldown would work fine, it's only being applied to one target, so 99% up-time seems fine balance-wise no? Compared to Turning tide which makes whole crowds and boss ads debuffed. Sure it's easier to apply than a block and bash, but I consider the loss of the AoE damage balance enough for that.

Plus a visual representation to remind me when to taunt again before 15 seconds is up would be super cool too, and I'm assuming this will put that pink effect over their head just like turning tide does.