Update 47- Feast of Shadows Early Set Discussion

ESO_Nightingale

Hey everyone, a slightly different topic today.

I wanted to chat about the new item sets coming with next patch's dungeons because i'm sort of disappointed by quite a few of them but also interested in 2 of them specifically.

I recreated them by editing ESO-Hub's html so they're easier to visually digest. listed numbers for things like damage over time effects and damage shields are always unreliable with previews, so i've marked them with x when applicable. I'm not sure about "up to" amounts so i'm leaving them be.

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Monster Helmets

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Bar-Sakka

Thoughts:
not sure how i feel about roll dodges as a condition for procs that do offensive damage in pve, but it having a shield tied to it sounds like it could be useful in solo environments.
Black Gem Monstrosity

Thoughts:
I'm really interested in the future of this set. I heard that theres going to be a new worm cult themed grimoire coming soon, probably q4 and it might be another soul magic skill. that could possibly mean a rework of the soul magic line which is much anticipated. will be interesting to see where this lands if/when something like that happens.

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Heavy Sets

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Stonehulk Domination

Thoughts:
This set seems really solid for new tanks players. I like it.
Black Foundry Steel

Thoughts:
This is probably one of the most useless sets i've ever seen in my life. i'm frankly appalled that this was even designed in the first place. what is this supposed to be useful for? it not only seems like a really bad design, but it seems horrendously undertuned as well. i really dont know what this is doing in the game.

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Medium Sets

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Tools of the Trapmaster

Thoughts: I think this one has potential. i'm really at my tether's end with all of the heavy attack sets that are brought into the game only to never be used because they suck, so i'm cautiously optimistic that this one isn't bad.
Vykand's Soulfury

Thoughts:
Wow, honestly i think this set right here is the epitome of just how bad set design can be in this game. not only is it another set based on fully charged heavy attacks which are almost always bad, but it's also another rng-fest on top of it. I'm really starting to dislike sets like this. genuinely. i wish that they'd start asking us what kinds of sets we want to see instead of continously making this kind of stuff. I know all i talk about is making more frost damage sets and stuff. but i don't get why these kinds of sets are being made.

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Light Sets

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Lustrous Soulwell

Thoughts:
This sounds alright on paper to me, i hope it's tuned right to be picked up by healers for dungeon trifectas and the like.
Xanmeer Spellweaver

Thoughts: I really like the idea behind this set but this sounds EGREGIOUSLY undertuned. elementalist builds (ardent/storm/winters) are already struggling as is. a 5% damage done bonus and some extra status effect damage is not enough to make this appealing.



Let me know what you guys think. i personally think some of these sets could be good, but some of them are just so horribly designed that it just makes me lose faith.

xencthlu

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vykand's Soulfury

Thoughts:
Wow, honestly i think this set right here is the epitome of just how bad set design can be in this game. not only is it another set based on fully charged heavy attacks which are almost always bad, but it's also another rng-fest on top of it. I'm really starting to dislike sets like this. genuinely. i wish that they'd start asking us what kinds of sets we want to see instead of continously making this kind of stuff. I know all i talk about is making more frost damage sets and stuff. but i don't get why these kinds of sets are being made.

These sets are always so baffling. Players with a small amount of system knowledge rightfully know they need to be able to rely on having major buffs when they need them, and won't think twice about skipping this set. Players with no system knowledge don't engage with the major/minor buff system at all and/or don't grind dungeon gear. At best, they craft Order's Wrath because people tell them it's good and it doesn't require additional effort to make work. Sometimes, it's like devs add sets like this to pad out the time it takes to grind the sets people might care about. I wonder how much dev time goes into making sets like this, that a player wouldn't willingly use.

Do love the Spellweaver set idea. I hope for larger numbers, too.

R3animate

Hear me out RE: Vykand's Soulfury..

Why not have this? I see this as something I'd pair with Rakkhat's Voidmantle and Sergeants (or Ansuuls) on a HA build. Slot brutality, slot savagery, use a spell to generate empower -- simple HA build with no oakensoul requirement. Some folks don't want to chase DOTs or weave, this might give them an opportunity to be useful.

ESO_Nightingale

R3animate wrote: »

Hear me out RE: Vykand's Soulfury..

Why the hate for this? I see this as something I'd pair with Rakkhat's Voidmantle on a HA build. Slot brutality, slot savagery, use a spell to generate empower -- simple HA build with no oakensoul requirement.

i dont see why you would run it over oakensoul. the buffs are random for no genuinely no reason. if you're running this in groups, any one of the buffs can be made redundant for any number of reasons.

i am not a fan of all of these new "gain random buff" sets. they're starting to be really common. I think we have enough item sets that give you generic named bonuses that you can't actually control.

why can't we get more sets that target specific settups that lack support? we all know heavy attack builds tend to recieve at least 1 set a patch. more stuff like a (heavily buffed) xanmeer spellweaver would be great.

R3animate

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

R3animate wrote: »

Hear me out RE: Vykand's Soulfury..

Why the hate for this? I see this as something I'd pair with Rakkhat's Voidmantle on a HA build. Slot brutality, slot savagery, use a spell to generate empower -- simple HA build with no oakensoul requirement.

i dont see why you would run it over oakensoul. the buffs are random for no genuinely no reason. if you're running this in groups, any one of the buffs can be made redundant for any number of reasons.

Oh wow, I just noticed either... You're right this is silly/useless. It would need to be all 3 to be remotely competitive with Oakensoul.

ESO_Nightingale

R3animate wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

R3animate wrote: »

Hear me out RE: Vykand's Soulfury..

Why the hate for this? I see this as something I'd pair with Rakkhat's Voidmantle on a HA build. Slot brutality, slot savagery, use a spell to generate empower -- simple HA build with no oakensoul requirement.

i dont see why you would run it over oakensoul. the buffs are random for no genuinely no reason. if you're running this in groups, any one of the buffs can be made redundant for any number of reasons.

Oh wow, I just noticed either... You're right this is silly/useless. It would need to be all 3 to be remotely competitive with Oakensoul.

yep. its another damn random buff set. i'm really starting to lose faith in the set designers.

Soarora

Bar-Sakka —
I cannot really imagine a place where this is useful. Maybe depending on the scaling it might be a way for tanks to do some damage? When in doubt I call it “maybe useful for pvp”… for troll tanks…?

Black Gem Monstrosity —
Could be interesting, not sure if it’d be for PvE, PvP, or neither though.

Stonehulk Domination —
You say this might be useful for new tanks but I don’t think it’s a new tank thing. This set has better uptime on major vuln than turning tide and archdruid. I don’t like it just because I love TT and don’t want to stop wearing it, aside from my bias its good design to have an aoe major vuln set and a single target major vuln set. Hopefully the proc effect is cool.

Black Foundry Steel —
The concept I could see as potentially useful in situations where sustain is a problem, like someone learning how to tank Taleria. But the cooldown and it only lasting 2 seconds… it’s not like it makes you invulnerable. That’s only time for like… one to two heavy attacks. I cannot imagine where this would be useful. Needs a buff.

Tools of the Trapmaster —
Reminds me of Yandir’s, which I think had use and I don’t know what it was used for. We’ll see with the damage numbers.

Vykand’s Soulfry —
Enough with the randomization sets!

Lustrous Soulwell —
I wish this one wasn’t added. It’s quite bad, you’re wasting a 5pc on limited recovery when the other sources of recovery at the group’s disposal (enlivening overflow, dsa restro, orb, symphony, build choices, blocking choices, free roll dodge cp, free break free cp) are more than enough. While most of these bad sets at least look bad, this is actively harmful because it’s another set to the pile of “some random healer might think its good and wear this instead of spc/pa”.

Xanmeer Spellweaver —
Obviously a set for those elementalist subclass builds. We’ll have to see when parses come out on how good it is, I’ve heard mixed reviews. At least it looks appealing to the people it most would help.

ESO_Nightingale

Soarora wrote: »

Bar-Sakka —
I cannot really imagine a place where this is useful. Maybe depending on the scaling it might be a way for tanks to do some damage? When in doubt I call it “maybe useful for pvp”… for troll tanks…?

Black Gem Monstrosity —
Could be interesting, not sure if it’d be for PvE, PvP, or neither though.

Stonehulk Domination —
You say this might be useful for new tanks but I don’t think it’s a new tank thing. This set has better uptime on major vuln than turning tide and archdruid. I don’t like it just because I love TT and don’t want to stop wearing it, aside from my bias its good design to have an aoe major vuln set and a single target major vuln set. Hopefully the proc effect is cool.

Black Foundry Steel —
The concept I could see as potentially useful in situations where sustain is a problem, like someone learning how to tank Taleria. But the cooldown and it only lasting 2 seconds… it’s not like it makes you invulnerable. That’s only time for like… one to two heavy attacks. I cannot imagine where this would be useful. Needs a buff.

Tools of the Trapmaster —
Reminds me of Yandir’s, which I think had use and I don’t know what it was used for. We’ll see with the damage numbers.

Vykand’s Soulfry —
Enough with the randomization sets!

Lustrous Soulwell —
I wish this one wasn’t added. It’s quite bad, you’re wasting a 5pc on limited recovery when the other sources of recovery at the group’s disposal (enlivening overflow, dsa restro, orb, symphony, build choices, blocking choices, free roll dodge cp, free break free cp) are more than enough. While most of these bad sets at least look bad, this is actively harmful because it’s another set to the pile of “some random healer might think its good and wear this instead of spc/pa”.

Xanmeer Spellweaver —
Obviously a set for those elementalist subclass builds. We’ll have to see when parses come out on how good it is, I’ve heard mixed reviews. At least it looks appealing to the people it most would help.

good to know. the only role i play is dps so its nice to see further clarification about lustrous soulwell.

LunaFlora

they all look kinda fun.
- Bar-Sakka
Due to the shield and dodging i can see this being useful in Infinite Archive!
We roll dodge way more there than elsewhere and there's even a Vision to reduce dodge cost.

- Black Gem Monstrosity
i bet this looks awesome. unsure if I'd use it though due to the Soul Gem requirement.

- Stonehulk Domination
seems like a good tank set to me due to the easy source of Major Vulnerability.

- Black Foundry Steel
that's a funny set. Can imagine it potentially being slightly useful when soloing content, but the 12 second cooldown makes me doubt it.

- Tools of the Trapmaster
seems good, but doubt I'd use it due to it requiring non-heavy attacks which i rarely use.

- Vykand's Fury
i like it due to the source of Major Force, Beserk, and Courage.
Could be nice for Soloing content, but wish it were not randomised.

- Lustrous Soulwell
Seems like a useful healer set, similar requirement to Pillager's Profit but this is clearly only for dungeons or arenas.


- Xanmeer Spellweaver
i love this, seems useful for an Elementalist build which i have and love using since Subclassing.

BasP

All in all, I agree with your comments about these sets.

Black Gem Monstrosity seems interesting indeed. I really hope ZOS does add some passives to the Soul Magic skill line that are useful in combat though (I even made a poll about it earlier this year) so that using Wield Soul as a spammable isn't that much of a DPS loss compared to more meta spammables.

I like that Xanmeer Spellweaver seems to be tailor made for 'Elementalist' subclass builds. Since they are so far behind the more meta setups however (unless we get some significant balance changes), I do feel like the set could use a buff. Increasing Flame, Shock and Frost Damage by at least 10% doesn't seem crazy to me, and perhaps the damage of the Status Effects could be increased a bit too. Still, I'm interested in trying the set on the PTS next week.

Dagoth_Rac

BasP wrote: »

All in all, I agree with your comments about these sets.

Black Gem Monstrosity seems interesting indeed. I really hope ZOS does add some passives to the Soul Magic skill line that are useful in combat though (I even made a poll about it earlier this year) so that using Wield Soul as a spammable isn't that much of a DPS loss compared to more meta spammables.

I like that Xanmeer Spellweaver seems to be tailor made for 'Elementalist' subclass builds. Since they are so far behind the more meta setups however (unless we get some significant balance changes), I do feel like the set could use a buff. Increasing Flame, Shock and Frost Damage by at least 10% doesn't seem crazy to me, and perhaps the damage of the Status Effects could be increased a bit too. Still, I'm interested in trying the set on the PTS next week.

A consistent issue I see with ZOS sets to buff common archetypes that are not meta in ESO (like Elementalist, Summoner, etc.) is rarely taking into consideration opportunity cost.

Xanmeer Spellweaver is not a 5% buff to fire/shock/frost. It is a 5% buff to fire/shock/frost minus whatever buff you were getting from the set that dropped to equip Xanmeer Spellweaver. If you were wearing some generic buff set on your Elementalist, like Order's Wrath or Ansuul or Deadly, that was still buffing your elemental damage. Xanmeer Spellweaver may buff your Elementalist by more but how much more? If Xanmeer 5-piece adds 8% damage at cost of dropping Order's Wrath 5-piece that added 6% damage, your Elementalist will now be 2% stronger than before. Meh + (0.02 * Meh) is still gonna be Meh.

ESO_Nightingale

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

All in all, I agree with your comments about these sets.

Black Gem Monstrosity seems interesting indeed. I really hope ZOS does add some passives to the Soul Magic skill line that are useful in combat though (I even made a poll about it earlier this year) so that using Wield Soul as a spammable isn't that much of a DPS loss compared to more meta spammables.

I like that Xanmeer Spellweaver seems to be tailor made for 'Elementalist' subclass builds. Since they are so far behind the more meta setups however (unless we get some significant balance changes), I do feel like the set could use a buff. Increasing Flame, Shock and Frost Damage by at least 10% doesn't seem crazy to me, and perhaps the damage of the Status Effects could be increased a bit too. Still, I'm interested in trying the set on the PTS next week.

A consistent issue I see with ZOS sets to buff common archetypes that are not meta in ESO (like Elementalist, Summoner, etc.) is rarely taking into consideration opportunity cost.

Xanmeer Spellweaver is not a 5% buff to fire/shock/frost. It is a 5% buff to fire/shock/frost minus whatever buff you were getting from the set that dropped to equip Xanmeer Spellweaver. If you were wearing some generic buff set on your Elementalist, like Order's Wrath or Ansuul or Deadly, that was still buffing your elemental damage. Xanmeer Spellweaver may buff your Elementalist by more but how much more? If Xanmeer 5-piece adds 8% damage at cost of dropping Order's Wrath 5-piece that added 6% damage, your Elementalist will now be 2% stronger than before. Meh + (0.02 * Meh) is still gonna be Meh.

Oppertunity cost is never taken into consideration. When the conditions are hard to achieve, the reward should be there. This is the reason why sets like ysgramors birthright suck so hard.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

I wish ZOS would stop adding HP based shields...

YandereGirlfriend

Stonehulk Domination is YET ANOTHER devaluation of the Necromancer class kit.

Have we ever seen such insane proliferation of a supposedly "unique" class buff?

Where are the scads of EZ proc sets that provide Minor Toughness, Minor Evasion, Minor Sorcery, Minor Brutality, etc.

Definitely feels as though there is a dart board with "NECRO" at the middle that is just constantly being aimed at for ways to undermine or cheapen its power and class identity.

Renato90085

In my pov,all is trash again
Stonehulk In old patch maybe pretty good ,but we live in subclass patch and easy have 100% colossus time

AcadianPaladin

All these sets are too limiting and/or too convoluted to be of any interest to me except Xanmeer Spellweaver - and that one has been properly assessed as undertuned.

None of them seem as solid as the ancient and simple Law of Julianos for example.

Soarora

Renato90085 wrote: »

In my pov,all is trash again
Stonehulk In old patch maybe pretty good ,but we live in subclass patch and easy have 100% colossus time

Probably better to drop necro for better ults/skills/passives though. And dungeons can have up to 1 support which will probably be supplying atro and not colo.

Renato90085

Soarora wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

In my pov,all is trash again
Stonehulk In old patch maybe pretty good ,but we live in subclass patch and easy have 100% colossus time

Probably better to drop necro for better ults/skills/passives though. And dungeons can have up to 1 support which will probably be supplying atro and not colo.

dungeons maybe, but it need taunt and have 15sec cool down,so i worry this like umbral edge will easy debuff a wrong mobs in combat,taunt mean it a single major Vulnerability,if you miss in boss, like you need taunt boss summon mini or pull mobs,it a dead set
and we have aoe controllable major Vulnerability(TT)...
in trial,tank/healer/zen sup dd can use colossus
Not to say it bad, but in my opinion this set has no merits,like umbral edge