Lack of unique fantasy and push towards real world, is it Tamriel any more?

TheMajority

The Elderscrolls Universe is interesting diverse and weird.

My question is- why don't we see it used anymore? More and more with things I see mundane real world stuff. For example, the new fruits from the expansion, why use real world fruits only and not anything unique to Tamriel invented from the imagination for this world?

Then in crates we get a bunch of animals and dogs added that look like the real world (I don't count apex mounts...) why not an invented animal that blends with lore (and is not bright or sparkling)

The last invented animal we got was brekka and it was silly looking....can we see more serious lore animals, even the exist ones? Like silt strider? why does everything focus on cute and funny now? I'm tired of this trend.

increasingly I begin to feel bored when the new zone is just island vacation 2.0 with nothing unique to this universe and plot which could come from anyplace. it's not even dependent on being Tamriel it just feels like it came from any book I could pull off the library shelf.

when can Tamriel feel like Tamriel again? the glory and exploration is gone when around the bend it's just more real world boredom.

MaraxusTheOrc

There is a giant wall of souls segmenting Solstice. The vahath behemoth is a new animal (even if its bone structure is similar to others).

We went into a glass multiverse in Gold Road. Glass. Multiverse.

We explored a realm of Lovecraftian horrors and an infinite archive before that.

I’m sorry if Solstice feels a little too grounded and tropical to you right now, but ESO is still giving us the “weird fantasy” that makes Elder Scrolls what it is.

TheMajority

MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »

There is a giant wall of souls segmenting Solstice. The vahath behemoth is a new animal (even if its bone structure is similar to others).

We went into a glass multiverse in Gold Road. Glass. Multiverse.

We explored a realm of Lovecraftian horrors and an infinite archive before that.

I’m sorry if Solstice feels a little too grounded and tropical to you right now, but ESO is still giving us the “weird fantasy” that makes Elder Scrolls what it is.

giant wall of souls is nothing new

vahath behemoth...one animal. when a whole biome should have many new animals. it looks like reused and reskin parts too. not really unique, a monster that looks average from other fantasy worlds. don't see anything weird or unique about a giant lizard with feathers, it's basically a dinosaur

glass multiverse wasn't really weird or unique. Mirrors? again a fantasy trope that gets used a lot

lovecraftian horror was ok, to bad it didn't really have the horror part though, just the looks. nothing about apocrypha really lean into the horror suggested by its look to me

only a few little things saying "weird" isn't enough, I'm saying do deeper world building. giant wall of souls really isn't impactful when running around with limes and pineapples

Syldras

TheMajority wrote: »

lovecraftian horror was ok, to bad it didn't really have the horror part though, just the looks. nothing about apocrypha really lean into the horror suggested by its look to me

Exactly. I did like Apocrypha, but muddy green colors and tentacles don't make it Lovecraftian except for the looks. Nothing was eerie and I never really had the feeling I slowly delve into dangerous secrets that could actually scary me or even threaten my (or my character's) sanity. It was about secrets, but the atmosphere was barely mysterious. Maybe it was the fact that we were on Hermaeus Mora's side and it just all felt so friendly in a way. How mysterious is a huge, god-like tentacle creature if you can just talk with it and it treats you like a friend in the end?

The Corelanya Manor quest on Solstice feels more Lovecraftian. You explore an old abandoned mansion and really get into the dark secrets of the family who lived there. That was a well-written quest I enjoyed at lot. Unfortunately most of the side quests of Solstice aren't that interesting.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

We were all over Elsweyr and never saw any Slarjei. Not even a lorebook for them! 😢 Still no Imga either.

ArchMikem

I wish the Knahaten Flu never hit the Lilmothiit as hard. An entire people of Foxes were alive not even 30 some years prior to ESO.

colossalvoids

Syldras wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

lovecraftian horror was ok, to bad it didn't really have the horror part though, just the looks. nothing about apocrypha really lean into the horror suggested by its look to me

Exactly. I did like Apocrypha, but muddy green colors and tentacles don't make it Lovecraftian except for the looks. Nothing was eerie and I never really had the feeling I slowly delve into dangerous secrets that could actually scary me or even threaten my (or my character's) sanity. It was about secrets, but the atmosphere was barely mysterious. Maybe it was the fact that we were on Hermaeus Mora's side and it just all felt so friendly in a way. How mysterious is a huge, god-like tentacle creature if you can just talk with it and it treats you like a friend in the end?

The Corelanya Manor quest on Solstice feels more Lovecraftian. You explore an old abandoned mansion and really get into the dark secrets of the family who lived there. That was a well-written quest I enjoyed at lot. Unfortunately most of the side quests of Solstice aren't that interesting.

Personally making it a zone in itself was a disservice. An endless ink sea with a tight labyrinth of books and pages, limited light and claustrophobic corridors changing it's shape on will confusing the random trapped traveller was working alright, now it's a zone virtually the same as all others.

TheMajority

Syldras wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

lovecraftian horror was ok, to bad it didn't really have the horror part though, just the looks. nothing about apocrypha really lean into the horror suggested by its look to me

Exactly. I did like Apocrypha, but muddy green colors and tentacles don't make it Lovecraftian except for the looks. Nothing was eerie and I never really had the feeling I slowly delve into dangerous secrets that could actually scary me or even threaten my (or my character's) sanity. It was about secrets, but the atmosphere was barely mysterious. Maybe it was the fact that we were on Hermaeus Mora's side and it just all felt so friendly in a way. How mysterious is a huge, god-like tentacle creature if you can just talk with it and it treats you like a friend in the end?

The Corelanya Manor quest on Solstice feels more Lovecraftian. You explore an old abandoned mansion and really get into the dark secrets of the family who lived there. That was a well-written quest I enjoyed at lot. Unfortunately most of the side quests of Solstice aren't that interesting.

Yeah exactly, I was feeling that getting into things with Mora should be more of a risk. Of like, will he mess with your sanity? What do I sacrifice and what am I gaining if I help this God that maybe could use my character's mind for it's own purpose? Even Arcanist as a class I think should have been a dark offering of Mora not just available. Like what do you give over to him to have this kind of power and knowledge. Now it's available in subclassing without even touching on Mora or why maybe another class would align themself with Mora to get this abilities.

Manor Quest in Solstice was one of the best stories in there. I played it on the test because of the look on the manor drew me in the way other stuff didn't. that use of atmosphere and ghosts was truly a bit creepy. And it deliver it's disturbing plot line well. I mean that in a good way. Actually, I could wish it would have gone even further, I'd take a whole main quest line about that necromancer.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

lovecraftian horror was ok, to bad it didn't really have the horror part though, just the looks. nothing about apocrypha really lean into the horror suggested by its look to me

Exactly. I did like Apocrypha, but muddy green colors and tentacles don't make it Lovecraftian except for the looks. Nothing was eerie and I never really had the feeling I slowly delve into dangerous secrets that could actually scary me or even threaten my (or my character's) sanity. It was about secrets, but the atmosphere was barely mysterious. Maybe it was the fact that we were on Hermaeus Mora's side and it just all felt so friendly in a way. How mysterious is a huge, god-like tentacle creature if you can just talk with it and it treats you like a friend in the end?

The Corelanya Manor quest on Solstice feels more Lovecraftian. You explore an old abandoned mansion and really get into the dark secrets of the family who lived there. That was a well-written quest I enjoyed at lot. Unfortunately most of the side quests of Solstice aren't that interesting.

Personally making it a zone in itself was a disservice. An endless ink sea with a tight labyrinth of books and pages, limited light and claustrophobic corridors changing it's shape on will confusing the random trapped traveller was working alright, now it's a zone virtually the same as all others.

Well, I like the zone, but in a way I think you are also right too, in that it really could have been a more dangerous and strange place which changes dynamically. Instead, it stagnates and does not feel as dangerous as it looks. Roaming monsters with high health do not give the greater danger of madness, it's just physical dangers.

moderatelyfatman

I always took the view that inTamriel, mainland zones inhabited primarily by humans are a bit more mainstream/generic fantasy while the peripheral zones get strange.

So riding around the main game on a horse is fine while in Morrowind people get around on guar, silt striders and various other creatures. The idea of the more alien landscape having animals other than horses be the main mode of transport is fun.

Likewise, it would have been interesting if more warriors in Skyrim and The Reach got around on mounts such as giant bears. In Apocrypha it would have been awesome to see some of the daedra ride around on chariots pulled by giant floating eyes and other strange creatures. Or Telvanni magisters, High Elf and Breton archmages aboard floating platforms propelled by Air Atronachs.

TheMajority

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I always took the view that inTamriel, mainland zones inhabited primarily by humans are a bit more mainstream/generic fantasy while the peripheral zones get strange.

So riding around the main game on a horse is fine while in Morrowind people get around on guar, silt striders and various other creatures. The idea of the more alien landscape having animals other than horses be the main mode of transport is fun.

Likewise, it would have been interesting if more warriors in Skyrim and The Reach got around on mounts such as giant bears. In Apocrypha it would have been awesome to see some of the daedra ride around on chariots pulled by giant floating eyes and other strange creatures. Or Telvanni magisters, High Elf and Breton archmages aboard floating platforms propelled by Air Atronachs.

I agree to some extent, but I think it's more fun if we see humans that also live a different life. At least be more creative with the vegitations and fruits, not just making real life ones. But ones native to Tamriel, which a human would eat too.

YstradClud

I found myself drifting away from the game after High Isle but was personally drawn back in when I heard they were returning to a continuation of the main story from the base game. Interested to see where they take us with the Worm Cult story at least. I've been getting some nostalgic Coldharbour vibes which is good.

emilyhyoyeon

One of the big things I love about the TES world and what makes it my favorite is how it has both familiar (real life world) things, like mangos and horses and dogs, but also that it has weird, non-Earth things like scrib jelly and silt striders and guar. And not only that the world has them, but specifically that they are a part of the same world and interact as ''normal.'' Like, maybe a breton child has never and will never see a kwama in their life, but kwama are a part of their world as normal--they exist, they're just another animal; in the same way that I've never seen an elephant, other than in photos and books, as someone who grew up in northeastern US and now lives in central Europe.

I said all of that to be clear that I have nothing against normal things in TES, and I in fact love them, but I do agree with the OP.

Especially with Solstice: I was already suspicious when it was revealed on stream a few months ago, showing the preorder emote ''beachdrink'' where your character lays on the island chair and sips on the green coconut. Nothing wrong with that new tide-born argonian style chair, and nothing wrong with the familiar green coconut, but, seeing it with the whole Solstice, it feels meh.

There's already some snippets around the island that could've been worked with: the hadolids, the giant sea shells, etc. I want to see more of that with the familiar reed-style chair and coconut.

Pixiepumpkin

Agreed OP, and ZOS just made it worse.

Go look in your mount collections now. The new name categories are a step backwards, unimaginative and too "earthy".

LunaFlora

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Agreed OP, and ZOS just made it worse.

Go look in your mount collections now. The new name categories are a step backwards, unimaginative and too "earthy".

how were the old category names not "earthy"?
Horses were Equines and that is what they are in real life too.
Big Cats were Felines and oh that's the same as above. same goes for Ursines/Bears, Canines/Wolves, Cervines/Deers.
Rams and Goats aren't cervines so it's good they aren't in that category anymore.

i like that now nearly all different kinds of animals have separate categories, only issue for me is that it's not in alphabetical order last time i checked.

Supreme_Atromancer

Its a good post for the sake of the discussion; I tend to agree more with @MaraxusTheOrc 's post though.

I feel like there is plenty of weirdness in the game. I also think that if we're dismissing uncanny mirror world and wall of souls as too everyday, almost any point anyone could raise against can just be dismissed out of hand.

Arena, Daggerfall, Oblivion and Skyrim (the actual games themselves) are all pretty standard, and I love the tone they defined for Tamriel. A lot of my favourite lore comes from those games.


Conversely... following through with the logic of OP's observations about shiny crown-store mounts; the weirdness that they do come up with might end up being not the sort of weirdness that you like. I'm not a massive fan of stuff like the Vvaardvark or Bantam Guars, for instance (but many people might absolutely love them).

I think the weirdness that we love from the series, from Morrowind and from the older out-of-game lore works because its organic and once you explore beyond the initial alien-ness, these things feel like they have a lot of internal logic. You can't achieve that with formula (hmmm needs more weird); juxtaposition of two disparate things, or even changing limes and pineapples to ooglabooglas and rapplestoms.

Gabriel_H

TheMajority wrote: »

My question is- why don't we see it used anymore? More and more with things I see mundane real world stuff.

Eh? You mean all the stuff that appears in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim?!

Pixiepumpkin

LunaFlora wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Agreed OP, and ZOS just made it worse.

Go look in your mount collections now. The new name categories are a step backwards, unimaginative and too "earthy".

how were the old category names not "earthy"?
Horses were Equines and that is what they are in real life too.
Big Cats were Felines and oh that's the same as above. same goes for Ursines/Bears, Canines/Wolves, Cervines/Deers.
Rams and Goats aren't cervines so it's good they aren't in that category anymore.

i like that now nearly all different kinds of animals have separate categories, only issue for me is that it's not in alphabetical order last time i checked.

I am already aware of everything you said.

However:
• Feline
• Ursine
• Canine
• Cervine
• Equine
• etc

All exude "mystery" being that they are closer to their latin roots. Going from those to the modern names now just feels cheap, lost its mystery or otherworldly feeling. I get that they are "earthy" in orgin, but so is every single aspect of this game if you want to argue semantics.

This game is turning into junk, and you support it. Shame.

Pixiepumpkin

Gabriel_H wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

My question is- why don't we see it used anymore? More and more with things I see mundane real world stuff.

Eh? You mean all the stuff that appears in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim?!

The key word in the OP's post is "anymore?"

Gabriel_H

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The key word in the OP's post is "anymore?"

You mean like the non-Earth plants, animals, and monsters that are everywhere?

Pixiepumpkin

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The key word in the OP's post is "anymore?"

You mean like the non-Earth plants, animals, and monsters that are everywhere?

The OP explained it perfectly, even covering your arguments. I suggest you read the OP's post again.

TheMajority

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

I think the weirdness that we love from the series, from Morrowind and from the older out-of-game lore works because its organic and once you explore beyond the initial alien-ness, these things feel like they have a lot of internal logic. You can't achieve that with formula (hmmm needs more weird); juxtaposition of two disparate things, or even changing limes and pineapples to ooglabooglas and rapplestoms.

Well, I don't mean that they should use the formula "needs more weird" or taking an apple and calling it a ooogalaboogala. I mean, look deep in the lore, and see how a plant or fruit could be designed which aligns with the actual world of this series.

Like, design plants or fruits which might echo the reality of how a plant is structure by nature, but design an appearance which is from tamriel, or talk about the danger of getting some specific thing, or show different kinds of farming like we do get in morrowind and the dark elf and how they relate to their animals. or what does it mean to the culture?

It's just, nothing is inventive, a lot we get new is just more real world stuff and not even the weirdness you can find in the real world. There is such a lot of interesting strange plant in our own world and really, earth can be really odd.

and people keep talking about the PAST things we did get- yeah, in the past, I speak of how they are moving forward and the increasing patterns of the mundane, not about what we already got. I'm talking about keeping consitent.