Pure Sets (Elements and Weapons)

ESO_Nightingale

Hey everyone, we've all been aware for a while now just how pitiful these types of sets can be, if you're not sure what i mean, i mean sets like these:



and





Honestly, these sets are not good and have rarely if ever seen any practical use. I think it's time to revisit these niche very focused sets and add some extra power to the playstyle they aim to empower. I made these pictures by editing the html of ESO Hub's ESO Sets website. so they're not real unfortunately.

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Pure Elemental Sets

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Ysgramor's Birthright:


Note:

Increased the Weapon and Spell Damage offered by this set by 200. also added a condition to increase chilled proc rate and power, something the rest of the elemental sets share.

Silks of the Sun:

Note:

Increased the Weapon and Spell Damage offered by this set by 200. also added a condition to increase burning proc rate and power

Netch's Touch:

Note:

Increased the Weapon and Spell Damage offered by this set by 200. also added a condition to increase concussed proc rate and power

War Maiden:

Note:

Increased the Weapon and Spell Damage offered by this set by 100. Also added a condition to increase overcharged proc rate and power. it's weapon and spell damage remains higher than other elemental sets due to not having a proper damage dealing weapon to support it.

Strength of the Automaton:

Note:

Increased the Weapon and Spell Damage offered by this set by 200 even though bleed and physical damage are common. also added a condition to increase sundered and hemo proc rate and power.

Swamp Raider:

Note:

added a condition to increase poisoned and diseased proc rate and power. I'm still not sure if that will be enough to make the set good, but it's possible.

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Weapon Sets

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Sword Dancer:

Note:

Added a bonus to existing passives within the line

Sword Singer:

Note:

Added a bonus to existing passives within the line

Knight-Errant's Mail:

Note:

Increased the weapon and spell damage offered by this set by 200. Also added in additional Bash damage to the set to really incentivise it to be picked up.

Spider Cultist's Cowl:

Note:

Added a bonus to passives the weapon has.

Light Speaker:

Note:

Added a bonus to passives the weapon has, as well as a damage component that makes the restoration staff slightly less bad at damage.

Wilderqueen's Arch:

Reworked this terrible set to resemble the other weapon sets with not only weapon and spell damage but also a bonus to the passives the weapon has.

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Let me know what you think.

Tannus15

I'd love to see some changes here, but ultimately i think all of these sets would be significantly better if you just make them 3pc sets and leave the numbers where they are.

you know what sounds cool? spider cult + asylum staff or master staff.

since we're at it, can we also look at where the sets drop?

damage types
Ysgramor's Birthright: Overland
Silks of the Sun: Overland
Netch's Touch: Dungeon
War Maiden: DLC Overland
Strength of the Automaton: Dungeon
Swamp Raider: Overland

weapon skill lines
Sword Dancer: Dungeon
Sword Singer: Overland
Knight-Errant's Mail: Dungeon
Spider Cultist's Cowl: Dungeon
Light Speaker: Dungeon
Wilderqueen's Arch: Overland

again, this just completely undermines the item set dev deep dive. the sets are all essentially the same.

netch and automoton should be moved to overland locations. wilder queen and sword singer should be in dungeons. i wonder how this could possibly be solved. it's so hard to see a possible solution here ...

ZhuJiuyin

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hey everyone, we've all been aware for a while now just how pitiful these types of sets can be, if you're not sure what i mean, i mean sets like these:



and



Let me know what you think.

I believe that if those useless sets are adjusted in this way, the game will be more fun. Hundreds of useless sets is obviously ridiculous, and will be a huge burden on the game's performance in the long run.
I think I can accept deleting all the useless sets in the past, and giving a certain number of tokens when killing Overland bosses and completing Dungeons, allowing players to use tokens to exchange for fewer but more useful equipment.
For example, the basic Dungeon sets are reduced to only 8 or 12 sets, corresponding to tank, healer, medium armor dps, and light armor dps. The bonus effects are comparable to those of Crimson Oath's Rive, Spell Power Cure, Jerensi's Bladestorm, and True-Sworn Fury.
This will not only significantly reduce the data of useless sets, but also provide players with truly useful sets.

Djennku

The sets are far from useless, even if you or your circle of friends personally prefer other sets for your builds. They can really buff a build if it specializes in those specific damage types or plays well with those set bonuses.

650+ sets in the game, and every single one of them have a potential build that would really benefit from them. With every possible effective build combination you could make from all the choices of sets available, let alone skills, cp, etc., you end up with over 7 Billion (yes billion with a B ) of them, and that was before update 34. It's much higher now.

ESO_Nightingale

Djennku wrote: »

The sets are far from useless, even if you or your circle of friends personally prefer other sets for your builds. They can really buff a build if it specializes in those specific damage types or plays well with those set bonuses.

650+ sets in the game, and every single one of them have a potential build that would really benefit from them. With every possible effective build combination you could make from all the choices of sets available, let alone skills, cp, etc., you end up with over 7 Billion (yes billion with a B ) of them, and that was before update 34. It's much higher now.

You see, thats the ideal we're all hoping for but it's really just not the case and never will be for most sets. But in cases like these for these sets that have a clear purpose in mind, they're simply so much worse than alternatives statistically. Take ysgramors birthright for example. It's infinitely worse than Frostbite which fills the same purpose as it. Frostbite is bugged right now as it's 4% bonus against chilled enemies apparently isn't working and it's still better than ysgramors. You cannot tell me that "they can really buff a build if it specialises in those specific damage types" because the truth is they don't offer enough value for how narrow their niche is.

Tannus15

I don't know what else to say. anyone running these sets is doing it wrong because they are so underpowered.
just put on orders wrath and keep all the same skills and "feel" and you'll do more dps.

they have no visual effects, so it's just vibes, and the all purpose sets are just straight up better. i know it's a trial set, but yandir gives 410 weapon damage on very easy to maintain "stacks" (a single crit every 5 seconds)

new moon acolyte, a crafted set which gives you 405 weapon damage. that's all your skills, all your procs, everything.

the listed sets are objectively bad, and they don't enhance your play in anyway. they don't have a cool proc like Auroran's Thunder, it's just numbers in the backgound.

please, don't use these sets. they are not good.
anyone using them should be politly told to just swap to orders wrath.
because math.

Kolzki

Nice changes. I like the added status effect buffs. One of the weaknesses of these sets currently is that so much of our damage comes from status effects that these sets don’t buff. Leaning into the effects they do buff is a nice compensation.

Kolzki

One suggestion though: standardise them all to 600 wd.

War maiden: actually still an ok PvP set. It buffs basically everything a classic bomber casts. Also strong on magblades. It doesn’t really matter that there isn’t a weapon to support it. We’re all at light attack damage cap anyway and weapon skill lines aren’t purely one element. Maybe buff the over charged effect a bit as overcharged is arguably the most lack luster status effect.

Knights errant: power bash and reverberating bash count as bash damage so would also receive the added 650 bash damage on each hit, so the set arguably doesn’t need to add more than a standard 600 weapon damage. This looks like a more focused version of veiled herritance that i could see being used on PvP bash builds.

BXR_Lonestar

I thought most of these sets already gave you 600+ Weapon/Spell Damage as their 5th piece bonus, and to be perfectly honest, still considered them "trash" even with that much specialized weapon and spell damage.

The problem is that they don't offer enough stats to make them worthwhile AND there are not enough skills to allow you to really fill out a build centered around the set.

With respect to the stats, the specialized damage buff doesn't help your heals, it doesn't help your utility abilities (most DPS run the fighter's guild trap for the passive + minor force + the fact that it is a pretty good DPS ability), and you are locked into using sub-optimal weapon choices. For example, if you want to use Netch's Touch, you want to focus lightning abilities. Even if you are a sorc, you are going to need to rely on weapon damage abilities and lightning staves to fill out your build. That locks you into using a lightning staff front bar rather than dual daggers, which because of hybridization, is suboptimal in terms of DPS output (not enough focus on crit chance/damage).

Maybe some of this will change with subclassing, but I kind of doubt it.

Either way, I think most of those sets were built for a different time in ESO, and they're now just unused relics.

AcadianPaladin

I find the specialized damage bonus unhelpful for the reasons @BXR_Lonestar pointed out above.

All my builds use multiple types of damage and require strong healing to keep my tank companion healthy as well. Therefore, pure unrestricted weapon/spell damage is the only such bonus I would look for. Sets like Hunding's Rage, Law of Julianos, Spell Power Cure fit this bill pretty nicely. I tend to run one set for w/s damage and a crit set.

Zodiarkslayer

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

...
Let me know what you think.

I am thinking awesome!

But the efficacy suffers from a couple of problems.
1) Light/Heavy attacks are not adjustable to a specific damage type.
2) Some damage types are over represented in abilities, most are under represented.
3) There are only 5 weapon abilities per weapon type. Even if you use all, plus the Ultimate, you can only buff half of your abilities, at best.

YandereGirlfriend

As usual, another Nightingale post that deserves to be fast-tracked directly into the game.

El_Borracho

I love it. The reality is these sets will never compete with the PVE endgame meta, and that fine. But even if the effect is that these sets will only be used in PVP, its better than these sets not being used at all. Thing is with these sets, I never saw them as primary damage sets, but something that would be complimentary to another set, like pairing Silks with Burning Spellweave on a DK.

We don't need more OP sets, or meta sets, but we do need more alternative sets with utility. Especially in PVP.

tsaescishoeshiner

The changes you suggested sound great, if not the exact numbers, then the general idea.

The issue with a set like Netch's Touch giving 600 Spell Damage for shock damage is that even a full-shock build would deal more damage with a different set. I think it's a mistake when people use these for theme builds just because they say "shock damage", when even a set like Order's Wrath would be better, let alone a meta or trial set applied to the same build.

To make "pure" damage types better, we could use more sets that deal damage or give a buff each time you deal 3 instances of shock damage (with a short cooldown), so that it doesn't just buff one damage type, but rewards you for committing all-in.

Edit: Typo.

ESO_Nightingale

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The changes you suggested sound great, if not the exact numbers, then the general idea.

The issue with a set like Netch's Touch giving 600 Spell Damage for shock damage is that even a full-shock build would deal more damage with a different set. I think it's a mistake when people use these for theme builds just because they say "shock damage", when even a set like Order's Wrath would be better, let alone a meta or trial set applied to the same build.

To make "pure" damage types better, we could use more sets that deal damage or give a buff each time you deal 3 instances of shock damage (with a short cooldown), so that it doesn't just buff one damage type, but rewards you for committing all-in.

Edit: Typo.

I don't think there's a problem with the original intention of the set buffing weapon and spell damage, but after reading the feedback here i definitely could have tuned this all a bit higher. Thinking like 33% increased status damage and an extra 100 weapon and spell damage. That's how poorly these sets were originally tuned.

Finedaible

I don't believe the Deep Dive bit about sets being designed for the content which they came from. That is either a very recent addition to their development process or they just never stuck to that plan these last 10 years. There's Sword-Singer and Sword Dancer which have the exact same stats except they buff different stamina weapon lines, and one is from a dungeon and the other is from overland.

Also some of the sets like Swamp Raider don't buff your light attack damage since there's no weapons that deal poison or disease, so they really aren't a good choice at all when you could use something that buffs everything. War Maiden found its niche uses in PvP because of how abundant Magic damage is within skills but only buffs light attack of restoration staves ironically.

ESO_Nightingale

Finedaible wrote: »

I don't believe the Deep Dive bit about sets being designed for the content which they came from. That is either a very recent addition to their development process or they just never stuck to that plan these last 10 years. There's Sword-Singer and Sword Dancer which have the exact same stats except they buff different stamina weapon lines, and one is from a dungeon and the other is from overland.

Also some of the sets like Swamp Raider don't buff your light attack damage since there's no weapons that deal poison or disease, so they really aren't a good choice at all when you could use something that buffs everything. War Maiden found its niche uses in PvP because of how abundant Magic damage is within skills but only buffs light attack of restoration staves ironically.

Yeah i think them designing sets for the content it drops from kind of only makes sense from a pvp perspective. In pve attaching minor slayer is honestly more of a hinderance to build creation than anything. Personally i think they should ditch that whole line of thinking when it comes to pve sources because it just doesn't make much sense.

cuddles_with_wroble

Djennku wrote: »

The sets are far from useless, even if you or your circle of friends personally prefer other sets for your builds. They can really buff a build if it specializes in those specific damage types or plays well with those set bonuses.

650+ sets in the game, and every single one of them have a potential build that would really benefit from them. With every possible effective build combination you could make from all the choices of sets available, let alone skills, cp, etc., you end up with over 7 Billion (yes billion with a B ) of them, and that was before update 34. It's much higher now.

650+ sets in the and about 30 of them have real value and build potential. If you actually sit down and crunch numbers and do some testing you will quickly realize that nearly every set in the game is useless. Most older sets are just power crept or don’t do anything of worth, the issue with most of the elemental sets for example is that you can’t stack enough of a single element and even when you can like on warden it’s still just far better to stack Crit or procs

I would love to see them do a massive rework of old and outdated sets and skills bcs it really does feel like 80% of what’s in the game is useless from a theory-crafting perspective these days

BasP

Djennku wrote: »

The sets are far from useless, even if you or your circle of friends personally prefer other sets for your builds. They can really buff a build if it specializes in those specific damage types or plays well with those set bonuses.

I wish that were the case, but at the moment they really aren't that great even for specialized builds. I quickly tried a setup that mostly deals Shock Damage against a couple of unbuffed 3M dummies and my DPS was better with Order's Wrath than with Netch's Touch. If a basic 3-trait crafted set outperforms a 'specialized' set such as Netch's Touch, the latter could really use a buff.

For reference, these were my results:

Sadly, the images in the opening post don't work for me at the moment, but from what I remember I really liked them. The added chance to proc status effects was cool, and giving extra Weapon and Spell Damage to certain sets seems warranted as well.

Edit: Okay, so with one extra skill that dealt Shock Damage (I used the Skeletal Arcanist instead of Skeletal Archer this time) my DPS with Netch's Touch and Order's Wrath was pretty similar. But still - if a player uses a build that goes all-in on Shock Damage and uses inferior morphs because of it, I'd say Netch's Touch should really benefit such a build more than it does at the moment.

ESO_Nightingale

BasP wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

The sets are far from useless, even if you or your circle of friends personally prefer other sets for your builds. They can really buff a build if it specializes in those specific damage types or plays well with those set bonuses.

I wish that were the case, but at the moment they really aren't that great even for specialized builds. I quickly tried a setup that mostly deals Shock Damage against a couple of unbuffed 3M dummies and my DPS was better with Order's Wrath than with Netch's Touch. If a basic 3-trait crafted set outperforms a 'specialized' set such as Netch's Touch, the latter could really use a buff.

For reference, these were my results:

Sadly, the images in the opening post don't work for me at the moment, but from what I remember I really liked them. The added chance to proc status effects was cool, and giving extra Weapon and Spell Damage to certain sets seems warranted as well.

Edit: Okay, so with one extra skill that dealt Shock Damage (I used the Skeletal Arcanist instead of Skeletal Archer this time) my DPS with Netch's Touch and Order's Wrath was pretty similar. But still - if a player uses a build that goes all-in on Shock Damage and uses inferior morphs because of it, I'd say Netch's Touch should really benefit such a build more than it does at the moment.

yeah im noticing more and more than discord links break extremely often on my posts, i've saved all of these images to my drive and uploaded them manually. hopefully they stick. sorry about the broken pictures.

BasP

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

The sets are far from useless, even if you or your circle of friends personally prefer other sets for your builds. They can really buff a build if it specializes in those specific damage types or plays well with those set bonuses.

I wish that were the case, but at the moment they really aren't that great even for specialized builds. I quickly tried a setup that mostly deals Shock Damage against a couple of unbuffed 3M dummies and my DPS was better with Order's Wrath than with Netch's Touch. If a basic 3-trait crafted set outperforms a 'specialized' set such as Netch's Touch, the latter could really use a buff.

For reference, these were my results:

Sadly, the images in the opening post don't work for me at the moment, but from what I remember I really liked them. The added chance to proc status effects was cool, and giving extra Weapon and Spell Damage to certain sets seems warranted as well.

Edit: Okay, so with one extra skill that dealt Shock Damage (I used the Skeletal Arcanist instead of Skeletal Archer this time) my DPS with Netch's Touch and Order's Wrath was pretty similar. But still - if a player uses a build that goes all-in on Shock Damage and uses inferior morphs because of it, I'd say Netch's Touch should really benefit such a build more than it does at the moment.

yeah im noticing more and more than discord links break extremely often on my posts, i've saved all of these images to my drive and uploaded them manually. hopefully they stick. sorry about the broken pictures.

It's weird that the images break often. For me, the same thing happened to the images in your previous (awesome) post about improving underperforming skill lines on the PTS forums. The strange thing is that I could still see those images when I opened the post on my phone instead of PC though.

Thanks for uploading the images in this post again by the way. Now that I see the values you used again, I think they're quite nice. I reckon some of those updated sets would outperform Order's Wrath when used by specialized setups at least.

ESO_Nightingale

BasP wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

The sets are far from useless, even if you or your circle of friends personally prefer other sets for your builds. They can really buff a build if it specializes in those specific damage types or plays well with those set bonuses.

I wish that were the case, but at the moment they really aren't that great even for specialized builds. I quickly tried a setup that mostly deals Shock Damage against a couple of unbuffed 3M dummies and my DPS was better with Order's Wrath than with Netch's Touch. If a basic 3-trait crafted set outperforms a 'specialized' set such as Netch's Touch, the latter could really use a buff.

For reference, these were my results:

Sadly, the images in the opening post don't work for me at the moment, but from what I remember I really liked them. The added chance to proc status effects was cool, and giving extra Weapon and Spell Damage to certain sets seems warranted as well.

Edit: Okay, so with one extra skill that dealt Shock Damage (I used the Skeletal Arcanist instead of Skeletal Archer this time) my DPS with Netch's Touch and Order's Wrath was pretty similar. But still - if a player uses a build that goes all-in on Shock Damage and uses inferior morphs because of it, I'd say Netch's Touch should really benefit such a build more than it does at the moment.

yeah im noticing more and more than discord links break extremely often on my posts, i've saved all of these images to my drive and uploaded them manually. hopefully they stick. sorry about the broken pictures.

It's weird that the images break often. For me, the same thing happened to the images in your previous (awesome) post about improving underperforming skill lines on the PTS forums. The strange thing is that I could still see those images when I opened the post on my phone instead of PC though.

Thanks for uploading the images in this post again by the way. Now that I see the values you used again, I think they're quite nice. I reckon some of those updated sets would outperform Order's Wrath when used by specialized setups at least.

That's all good. I'll upload them manually going forward.

Stx

Some of these sets are much better than others. War maiden for example is actually quite a nice option for non trial sets if you’re a class that has a lot of magic damage like Templars, Nightblade, or warden. If some of the others gave 600 damage instead of 450, they would be good too. Automaton, silks would be very good. Netch and ysgramors obviously just don’t have enough strong skills with those damage types.

Sets like sword singer just don’t give the same level of benefit because of the limited number of skills it buffs. The weapon skill sets should definitely have some other buff added to the five piece.

Finedaible

Honestly I would have like to have seen this kind of elemental/skill specialization from the Champion Point system. It's unfortunate that they couldn't have done something more creative with CP.

ESO_Nightingale

Finedaible wrote: »

Honestly I would have like to have seen this kind of elemental/skill specialization from the Champion Point system. It's unfortunate that they couldn't have done something more creative with CP.

This is my next MAJOR project i reckon. Because i completely agree. Buffing all single target and direct damage is an absolutely poxy way to make champion points work. They should have been specialised not so utterly general that they don't even have elemental focuses.

El_Borracho

@Stx War Maiden was a good set before hybridization. Ran it on a Templar with Soutshine and it put out a lot of damage.

ESO_Nightingale

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Stx War Maiden was a good set before hybridization. Ran it on a Templar with Soutshine and it put out a lot of damage.

Yeah if i was to go back and edit these elemental sets again I'd probably keep its weapon and spell damage the same. But overall i don't think i tuned them right even though most of them got an extra 200 weapon and spell damage as 100% extra status proc is realistically quite small and same with 10% extra status damage.

If i was to edit it I'd probably either increase the status chance to 250% or the damage done to 33%. Some status effects like concussed and diseased don't have strong skills that apply a ton of concussed/diseased and there's not too much incentive to either. But if i was to tune them on a case to case basis, like war maiden and netches touch having more than others it would be janky as hell and would feel like an excuse to not fix the fundamental issues present in those gameplay styles.

ESO_Nightingale

mentioned these types of sets being bad at the end of the video i just made about the state of frost dps with the next patch

https://youtu.be/7sPWtbESFrQ

Artim_X

Netch was one of the first full sets I used on my lightning sorcerer, but it just doesn't have enough oomph to justify it's use even when using the entire storm calling kit, most of the destruction staff skills that change based on staff type, and two scribed lightning skills.

I'm of the mind that if you commit to being a pure build that focuses on one concept, these sets should out perform everything else.