Arcanist was a mistake, you are slowly killing your endgame Zos

p4l4mu7

You nerfed Necromancer and Warden dds out of endgame after they made enough money. When will it be Arcanist beam's turn?

It's clear that you've been trying to make the game as casual as possible, requiring little to no effort. Until now, the Arcanist beam has felt like the final nail in the coffin. You can't promote "play the way you want" while designing the entire game around a single skill. Class identity was already fading, but this new system ensured that every build revolves around the Arcanist.

Instead of focusing on subclassing, your main goal should have been to add class-specific effects to weapon skill lines. Despite having one of the most monotonous rotations in any MMORPG, Arcanist beam has dominated the game for far too long. Saying "just don't play it then" isn't a valid response. If that's the case, why did ZOS spend two years building the game around a skill that removes challenge, critical thinking, and gameplay fluidity while there is so much more to the game?

It's time to nerf the Arcanist beam. At the very least, adjust it so it no longer passes through elite enemies. It shouldn't be hitting everything while also dealing more damage than most single-target skills.

I know it is too scary to put any real challenge in front of casual players, but removing all elements of strategic thinking and building the game around a single skill that hits everything while shielding the caster for nearly five seconds is not the way to go.

Yudo

Beam has been dominating even without subclassing.
But now...

Just passing by to say I agree.

SkaiFaith

"Arcanist was a mistake" is a statement that many would strongly fight, very debatable, since 2 years ago it brought in excitement and players: everyone loved it. Almost everyone (I was not a fan and didn't have one until last December).

VoidCommander

Arcanist being an accessibily option was not a mistake. Making it outperform every other RANGED AOE class setup by a factor of 1.3-1.5 is what the problem is. I don’t mind if it is the highest damage dealer, it just needs to not be the highest by tens of thousands of dps.

cuddles_with_wroble

this class is designed to highlight every flaw of modern eso and is an abomination of ZoS's outdated balance philosophy and views on the game

it has max hp scaling shields that heal you
it has passive % damage increases higher than 5 pc sets
it has access to rare buffs no one else gets
it has every debuff in the known universe
it it 500% easier to play than any other class
it does more damage than any other class
its the best tank with the best taunt
in pvp 90% of its damage comes from proc sets and not class skills
garbage spammable that everyone hates (classic dlc class addition.. cliff racer/skull KEKW)
doesnt need to builds damage in pvp bcs passive are juiced

sarahthes

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

this class is designed to highlight every flaw of modern eso and is an abomination of ZoS's outdated balance philosophy and views on the game

it has max hp scaling shields that heal you
it has passive % damage increases higher than 5 pc sets
it has access to rare buffs no one else gets
it has every debuff in the known universe
it it 500% easier to play than any other class
it does more damage than any other class
its the best tank with the best taunt
in pvp 90% of its damage comes from proc sets and not class skills
garbage spammable that everyone hates (classic dlc class addition.. cliff racer/skull KEKW)
doesnt need to builds damage in pvp bcs passive are juiced

Nobody uses the class taunt.

Just wanted to correct that.

Inner rage is used almost exclusively in endgame because it is the biggest group damage increase (the synergy hits hard).

PrinceShroob

Let's clear the air here--Arcanist is not the "highest-damage class." Arcanist is, in fact, a rather poor single-target parser. But where it excels is in its cleave, its ability to hit multiple enemies at once. Cleave is heavily valued with the latest trials--Sanity's Edge and Lucent Citadel.

Arcanist is also easy to play and easy to gear, and has good survivability thanks to Pragmatic Fatecarver and the heal on Cephaliarch's Flail. What you must understand is that endgame was devastated by Update 35, and a lot of people playing at the margins suddenly found themselves unable to complete content they had done before.

Arcanist, being, as I said, easy to play and easy to gear, allowed these people back into endgame and also brought a lot of new players in, because the class is accessible.

The way to indirectly nerf Arcanist and make other classes more desirable is to design content with more single-target fights.

I also disagree about disparaging Arcanist's gameplay; there are things that separate great Arcanist players from everyone else--keeping their other skills up and properly refreshing them before using Fatecarver and managing Stamina to get the maximum effect out of Coral Riptide without becoming unable to roll dodge if necessary.

I am sorry that you do not enjoy playing Arcanist. But spitefully wanting the class nerfed is not the answer. And there are non-Arcanist DPS options in the current meta--Necromancer, Z'enkosh, Templar, Martial Knowledge Sorcerer, and even Nightblade in Kyne's Aegis come to mind.

Soarora

The game was not built around Arcanist. My view is moreso Arcanist was made without keeping the mass amount of adds in group content in mind, causing a power disparity between classes.

ZhuJiuyin

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I am sorry that you do not enjoy playing Arcanist. But spitefully wanting the class nerfed is not the answer. And there are non-Arcanist DPS options in the current meta--Necromancer, Z'enkosh, Templar, Martial Knowledge Sorcerer, and even Nightblade in Kyne's Aegis come to mind.

Z'enkosh DK, EC Necro, MK Sorcerer, they are not DPS, they are support, these classes use these sets not because these builds can bring them high DPS, but because this build is good for the team.
When you think of these support bots as dps meta, it just goes to show how rare non-Arcanist is that people only remember these non-Arcanist builds, or mistakenly think that non-Arcanist support builds are pure dps builds.
Of course, the nerf to Fatecarver is not particularly reasonable, because in fact other classes still have a lot of untapped cleave potential, Skeletal Arcanist, Twisting Path, Shattering Spines, Reflective Light, etc. It’s just that for some reason we don’t know, ZOS refused to change this and even restricted it instead.
The most obvious example is Necro. Corpseburster is an almost successful aoe set and one of the few successful class sets. However, in U46 we may witness the decline of this set simply because of the reduced existence time of corpses, the nerf of Class Mastery, etc.
Buffing other classes' cleave damage instead of nerfing Fatecarver is fair to everyone.

sarahthes

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I am sorry that you do not enjoy playing Arcanist. But spitefully wanting the class nerfed is not the answer. And there are non-Arcanist DPS options in the current meta--Necromancer, Z'enkosh, Templar, Martial Knowledge Sorcerer, and even Nightblade in Kyne's Aegis come to mind.

Z'enkosh DK, EC Necro, MK Sorcerer, they are not DPS, they are support, these classes use these sets not because these builds can bring them high DPS, but because this build is good for the team.
When you think of these support bots as dps meta, it just goes to show how rare non-Arcanist is that people only remember these non-Arcanist builds, or mistakenly think that non-Arcanist support builds are pure dps builds.
Of course, the nerf to Fatecarver is not particularly reasonable, because in fact other classes still have a lot of untapped cleave potential, Skeletal Arcanist, Twisting Path, Shattering Spines, Reflective Light, etc. It’s just that for some reason we don’t know, ZOS refused to change this and even restricted it instead.
The most obvious example is Necro. Corpseburster is an almost successful aoe set and one of the few successful class sets. However, in U46 we may witness the decline of this set simply because of the reduced existence time of corpses, the nerf of Class Mastery, etc.
Buffing other classes' cleave damage instead of nerfing Fatecarver is fair to everyone.

When the endgame sweats run most trials you know the rosters are balanced, right?

It's the middle class of raiders who are stuck with arc heavy comps. One of the raids I'm doing tonight has 4 necros, 1 arc, 2 plars, 1 sorc, 1 dk for the assigned DD roles, for example.

Daoin

sarahthes wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I am sorry that you do not enjoy playing Arcanist. But spitefully wanting the class nerfed is not the answer. And there are non-Arcanist DPS options in the current meta--Necromancer, Z'enkosh, Templar, Martial Knowledge Sorcerer, and even Nightblade in Kyne's Aegis come to mind.

Z'enkosh DK, EC Necro, MK Sorcerer, they are not DPS, they are support, these classes use these sets not because these builds can bring them high DPS, but because this build is good for the team.
When you think of these support bots as dps meta, it just goes to show how rare non-Arcanist is that people only remember these non-Arcanist builds, or mistakenly think that non-Arcanist support builds are pure dps builds.
Of course, the nerf to Fatecarver is not particularly reasonable, because in fact other classes still have a lot of untapped cleave potential, Skeletal Arcanist, Twisting Path, Shattering Spines, Reflective Light, etc. It’s just that for some reason we don’t know, ZOS refused to change this and even restricted it instead.
The most obvious example is Necro. Corpseburster is an almost successful aoe set and one of the few successful class sets. However, in U46 we may witness the decline of this set simply because of the reduced existence time of corpses, the nerf of Class Mastery, etc.
Buffing other classes' cleave damage instead of nerfing Fatecarver is fair to everyone.

When the endgame sweats run most trials you know the rosters are balanced, right?

It's the middle class of raiders who are stuck with arc heavy comps. One of the raids I'm doing tonight has 4 necros, 1 arc, 2 plars, 1 sorc, 1 dk for the assigned DD roles, for example.

its not that they mean to be sweats in this instance, there is just no consideration to the overall effect on the majority of groups that do trials and dungeons and that repsonsibilty lay at the feet of devs not players, which is why for how many years now the game has been under one long and constant fix ? its fine to hug the end gamers when its not effecting the rest of the world in a way thousands keep seeing the need to leave permanently or take long breaks util its fixed a bit better. then have to listen to said end gamers trying to split the cause and effect between then and devs and finally everyone else when all else fails, in update 46 though its plain to see a serious issue had developed. i mean,,you dont mean to come across as sweats do you guys ? nobody wants to seen as eso's armpit material. different people are just hung up at the moment over different things eventually it will all die down again and people will either stay now and see it through or come back later to see how things are, i already decided to break but others should get in there today just to remember in the end its fun again before worktime after update, i am just to lazy to put in any work to make things straight again with my chars after update day and until i get smething steady to work around. i just keep thinking newer generation of players that may join eso will need as many exp players playing at whatever level of play more than ever soon to just sticj around. so much i believe this that eventually i know im going to u turn too and sublclass my chars eventually. eso is not just about dps and skill many factors join together to in the end see if its an enjoyable experience, not that im totally looking forward to more thousands of dungeons in the mean time either lol to be honest its going to be what i make it

ApoAlaia

Meanwhile, back in reality, 450k AoE DPS setup - without highland conqueror or other dummy cheese stuff - that has no beam or arcanist skill lines for that matter:

https://youtu.be/zDJirhfiwz8

Daoin

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Meanwhile, back in reality, 450k AoE DPS setup - without highland conqueror or other dummy cheese stuff - that has no beam or arcanist skill lines for that matter:

https://youtu.be/zDJirhfiwz8

then to others get as many achievements in as you can if they are what your in eso for while its there just like HA before nerf and before its changed if it goes live, compensation for those that feel aggrieved losing OG only classes and constant nagging in the wrong forum place about pts, nice easy route to fillers for the completionist in the mean time, my only responsibily is to even out my chars in the best possible way to become vert enjoyable in thier own way to play again not follow a video like a goat, pure people have not got achievments they basically should have by now anyway because they just should and have passed opportunties just to help others get better rather than focus on themselves. this is just a way of saying grab it while you can get it for others too if you can aswell and everyone else just stay level headed think i mentioned in a past post long ago if the did not think i was being offensive and i had enough gold i would pay for quite a few people i know to join and endgame group for a while with gold get the achievments they should already have and be done, here im talking about trial trifectas and those that clearly should have them already, whats donr after the grabbing it, probably buisness as usual again and think about yourselves just once, us mid levelers will still be here to help you pull your hair out afterwards dying under mysterious circumstances

BananaBender

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

sarahthes

BananaBender wrote: »

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

The meta is to start with arcanist because of their survivability and cleave, and then as the trial strats become more developed, go to a more balanced comp.

I don't see any difference with the new trial other than that the most used strat for the first boss requires beam to hit all priority targets without getting killed by enemy cleave. They would need to redesign that fight if they nerfed arcanist.

The stamblade tells me which group that is though

BananaBender

sarahthes wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

The meta is to start with arcanist because of their survivability and cleave, and then as the trial strats become more developed, go to a more balanced comp.

I don't see any difference with the new trial other than that the most used strat for the first boss requires beam to hit all priority targets without getting killed by enemy cleave. They would need to redesign that fight if they nerfed arcanist.

The stamblade tells me which group that is though

There were some familiar names in some of those logs XD

As you said, first boss on arc is a completely different fight than it would be on any other class, but I don't think they would have to change the fight. It would definitely be one of the more difficult fights in the game, but I would find it so much more engaging to what it is now, where 8 DDs stand still and look in one direction and tank does all the work. It's just such a let down of a fight when it could easily be one of the most engaging ones. On the second boss you pretty much need range to stay competitive, and on pretty much all other classes having higher range comes at the cost of damage, but not on arcanist, making it once again the default and by far the most effective option. Last boss is one where other classes could at least play the game, but with beam you can damage all targets through out the fight, making the portal significantly easier for example.

I would say the difference between now and before is that arcanist is just by far the best class to abuse subclassing. There is very little data on other trials with subclassing, so I really hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see a scenario where we aren't going into another two years of beam meta.

sarahthes

BananaBender wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

The meta is to start with arcanist because of their survivability and cleave, and then as the trial strats become more developed, go to a more balanced comp.

I don't see any difference with the new trial other than that the most used strat for the first boss requires beam to hit all priority targets without getting killed by enemy cleave. They would need to redesign that fight if they nerfed arcanist.

The stamblade tells me which group that is though

There were some familiar names in some of those logs XD

As you said, first boss on arc is a completely different fight than it would be on any other class, but I don't think they would have to change the fight. It would definitely be one of the more difficult fights in the game, but I would find it so much more engaging to what it is now, where 8 DDs stand still and look in one direction and tank does all the work. It's just such a let down of a fight when it could easily be one of the most engaging ones. On the second boss you pretty much need range to stay competitive, and on pretty much all other classes having higher range comes at the cost of damage, but not on arcanist, making it once again the default and by far the most effective option. Last boss is one where other classes could at least play the game, but with beam you can damage all targets through out the fight, making the portal significantly easier for example.

I would say the difference between now and before is that arcanist is just by far the best class to abuse subclassing. There is very little data on other trials with subclassing, so I really hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see a scenario where we aren't going into another two years of beam meta.

I don't think the tentacular dread single target builds will feel anything like the beam builds tbh. I look forward to seeing how subclassing plays out in Kynes or Sunspire or even Rockgrove. A quad mini skip, 1 portal Rockgrove only needs one beam.

gc0018

No evidence suggests ZOS developer even listen to the players or read the post in the PTS section. They become Blizzard who try to teach players how to play.

SpaceElf

Not sure why Arcanist is a 'mistake'; class hardly matters when it comes to building and/or decorating a house.

cuddles_with_wroble

sarahthes wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

The meta is to start with arcanist because of their survivability and cleave, and then as the trial strats become more developed, go to a more balanced comp.

I don't see any difference with the new trial other than that the most used strat for the first boss requires beam to hit all priority targets without getting killed by enemy cleave. They would need to redesign that fight if they nerfed arcanist.

The stamblade tells me which group that is though

“They would have to redesign the fight if the beam was nerfed” if you don’t see the irony or the problem with this statement than you truly don’t understand the issue.

sarahthes

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

The meta is to start with arcanist because of their survivability and cleave, and then as the trial strats become more developed, go to a more balanced comp.

I don't see any difference with the new trial other than that the most used strat for the first boss requires beam to hit all priority targets without getting killed by enemy cleave. They would need to redesign that fight if they nerfed arcanist.

The stamblade tells me which group that is though

“They would have to redesign the fight if the beam was nerfed” if you don’t see the irony or the problem with this statement than you truly don’t understand the issue.

When it's only one trial that needs it, then it's not a huge problem. It's ok for some fights to favour some classes.

The power creep incoming means that arc beam is no longer needed in many other trials, because once you're fast enough they all become single target fights.

SkaiFaith

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

The meta is to start with arcanist because of their survivability and cleave, and then as the trial strats become more developed, go to a more balanced comp.

I don't see any difference with the new trial other than that the most used strat for the first boss requires beam to hit all priority targets without getting killed by enemy cleave. They would need to redesign that fight if they nerfed arcanist.

The stamblade tells me which group that is though

“They would have to redesign the fight if the beam was nerfed” if you don’t see the irony or the problem with this statement than you truly don’t understand the issue.

If they'll add a new BonBon class, with a Fluffy skill, and then add Dungeons with fights that have mechanics which specifically require the use of Fluffy skill... Would the solution be to nerf BonBon class and Fluffy skill? Or would it be a design choice "problem"? And since it is a design choice "problem", isn't it fair to assume that this is their game and the combat/dungeon devs put in the game what they have the right to think is right in their minds? If they want to push on us the use of something it only makes sense...

Hope I didn't appear as aggressive, it wasn't my intention, just putting out a thought.

cuddles_with_wroble

SkaiFaith wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

I wanted to give an explanation and some data for anyone wondering why arcanist is considered broken by so many players, especially by the endgame community.
Arcanist has so much more going for it than just damage. It has damage on par with other classes, but it can dish out the same damage in single target as it does in AoE. Not only that, but you get an insane range and you can move your damage at will. So fights where positioning is a large part of the difficulty, arcanist over performs other classes by a massive margin, because you can do damage while other builds cannot.
Another thing is its passives. Arcanist gets a massive amount of free penetration and critical damage, which wasn't a huge deal in organized content before, since you would have penetration sets on supports, but now that you have access to other skill lines with penetration and crit damage passives (Herald of the Tome is the only skill line with both), you suddenly don't need any penetration sets, or crit damage sets. This means that any non arcanist player is going to be at an enormous disadvantage because they have to source those buffs from elsewhere, which will always come at the cost of something else (crit chance for example) which leads into a significant drop in damage. This means that the whole group would have to build around non arcanist classes just to even keep up with the passive buffs, while building around arcanist you could use all those resources on extra buffs or more survival.

All of that leads to something like this (pictures posted in the spoiler, all from different groups). There were total of TWO non arcanist DDs, one of them is a player who refuses to use beam no matter how good it is (respect). These pictures are from groups which include a few of the strongest players in the game, not just your average gamers. Arcanist just has way too much going for it that calling it anything but overpowered is just a straight up lie.

These pictures are from public logs of people doing the new trial on Hard Mode.

The meta is to start with arcanist because of their survivability and cleave, and then as the trial strats become more developed, go to a more balanced comp.

I don't see any difference with the new trial other than that the most used strat for the first boss requires beam to hit all priority targets without getting killed by enemy cleave. They would need to redesign that fight if they nerfed arcanist.

The stamblade tells me which group that is though

“They would have to redesign the fight if the beam was nerfed” if you don’t see the irony or the problem with this statement than you truly don’t understand the issue.

If they'll add a new BonBon class, with a Fluffy skill, and then add Dungeons with fights that have mechanics which specifically requires the use of Fluffy skill... Would the solution be to nerf BonBon class and Fluffy skill? Or would it be a design choice "problem"? And since it is a design choice "problem", isn't it fair to assume that this is their game and the combat/dungeon devs put in the game what they have the right to think is right in their minds? If they want to push on us the use of something it only makes sense...

Hope I didn't appear as aggressive, it wasn't my intention, just putting out a thought.

If use of fluffy skill was the only way to clear a mechanic and only 1 class had access to said skill than yes I’d say that is horrific design

It’s one thing If every class has something unique to bring to the table like they do in other mmos, but eso class design is so lopsided that most classes bring nothing or close to nothing

Maggusemm

yes, warden, sorcerer and DK neeed to be buffed for damage dealers, thats clear

mdjessup4906

"If use of fluffy skill was the only way to clear a mechanic and only 1 class had access to said skill than yes I’d say that is horrific design"

Sooo, unfair encounter design and nonsensical nerfs to other classes is the issue, yet all anyone can do is scream about nerfing arc. Top tier logic for sure.

cuddles_with_wroble

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

"If use of fluffy skill was the only way to clear a mechanic and only 1 class had access to said skill than yes I’d say that is horrific design"

Sooo, unfair encounter design and nonsensical nerfs to other classes is the issue, yet all anyone can do is scream about nerfing arc. Top tier logic for sure.

Unfair encounter design and nonsensical balance are indeed the root issues of the game, Arcanist is just the product of that bad design philosophy and poor balancing choices.

I personally think it’s better to buff every other class and leave arc alone if not buff it’s sustain slightly

alpha_synuclein

My main problem with arcanist is that it completely demolishes the learning curve that previously lead players into harder content. I really don't want to sound like the back in my days kind of person, but before arcanist was a thing, players were gaining power relatively slowly, and while doing that they had a chance to go through older group content and learn the basics. Now we got bunch of players that got very strong very fast due to their builds and can burn through some content while standing in red beaming and without giving it a thought. This kind of "accessibility" (I hate this term used in this context...) is making a lot of players happy, but imo it is not good for the (end) game in the long term. All it does is producing all-powerfull players that fail basic mechs in harder trials, because that's where they actually need to pay attention to them for the first time. Not to mention that the attempts on transition from arca to any kind of high APM build without previous experience with one usually ends.... well, underwhelming 😉 If that's not an awful design choice, then I don't know what is. ZOS decimated endgame with U35 and proceed to filling it back with players that can only play arca. It's not a fix, it's a cover. And subclassing will only exacerbate the issue.

sarahthes

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

My main problem with arcanist is that it completely demolishes the learning curve that previously lead players into harder content. I really don't want to sound like the back in my days kind of person, but before arcanist was a thing, players were gaining power relatively slowly, and while doing that they had a chance to go through older group content and learn the basics. Now we got bunch of players that got very strong very fast due to their builds and can burn through some content while standing in red beaming and without giving it a thought. This kind of "accessibility" (I hate this term used in this context...) is making a lot of players happy, but imo it is not good for the (end) game in the long term. All it does is producing all-powerfull players that fail basic mechs in harder trials, because that's where they actually need to pay attention to them for the first time. Not to mention that the attempts on transition from arca to any kind of high APM build without previous experience with one usually ends.... well, underwhelming 😉 If that's not an awful design choice, then I don't know what is. ZOS decimated endgame with U35 and proceed to filling it back with players that can only play arca. It's not a fix, it's a cover. And subclassing will only exacerbate the issue.

At the level I play at, we joke about the rare parse arcanist because nobody wants to play them and they're often the last spots filled on a roster.

Either they transition to other classes or they just don't come to endgame idk.

twisttop138

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

My main problem with arcanist is that it completely demolishes the learning curve that previously lead players into harder content. I really don't want to sound like the back in my days kind of person, but before arcanist was a thing, players were gaining power relatively slowly, and while doing that they had a chance to go through older group content and learn the basics. Now we got bunch of players that got very strong very fast due to their builds and can burn through some content while standing in red beaming and without giving it a thought. This kind of "accessibility" (I hate this term used in this context...) is making a lot of players happy, but imo it is not good for the (end) game in the long term. All it does is producing all-powerfull players that fail basic mechs in harder trials, because that's where they actually need to pay attention to them for the first time. Not to mention that the attempts on transition from arca to any kind of high APM build without previous experience with one usually ends.... well, underwhelming 😉 If that's not an awful design choice, then I don't know what is. ZOS decimated endgame with U35 and proceed to filling it back with players that can only play arca. It's not a fix, it's a cover. And subclassing will only exacerbate the issue.

This sounds like a raid lead issue. When I stand in stupid or fail a mechanic or cause a wipe my lead lets me know. In group chat. He explains what I messed up and I do my best to not repeat. Even though I play Arc when I'm on DPS, I don't stand in stupid and beam because you'll die that way. Maybe in a normal trial or dungeon you could do that, I guess and that's what you mean? But come on with the every person that plays arc eats paste and doesn't belong in MY endgame stuff.

Twohothardware

Arcanist beam probably deserves some further adjustment but them catering to the .1% crowd that want harder hard mode trials content is where we got update 35 that saw a huge player drop off. The average ESO player is perfectly fine with buffs. They're not at all okay with nerfs.

Twohothardware

Also, The Elder Scrolls is a casual focused series. It's not WoW. If you want more hardcore play PvP.