[Suggestion] Change Boneyard Self-Synergy Morph To Generate A Corpse Every X Seconds

randconfig

This would be a really nice change imo, thoughts?
Some other changes that might be good for Necromancer in preparation for subclassing:

• Maybe move Boneyard to the Bone Tyrant skill line, and Hungry Scythe to the Grave Lord skill line for subclassing balance.
• Maybe move the Self-Synergy ability to the base skill, since it and the Harmony trait were nerfed so long ago.

DenverRalphy

No

I don't wish to lose my self synergy on my Necro.

randconfig

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I don't wish to lose my self synergy on my Necro.

I think it should be applied to the base skill/both morphs, since it was nerfed alongside Harmony trait so long ago.

tomofhyrule

Ooh, that’s interesting. And it could make sense lorewise.

I’m definitely not a necro main, but it could be a fun idea

DenverRalphy

No

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

I actually find Necro to be in a relatively good spot now. Which is bittersweet because the moment Subclassing goes live, the Necro class will basically be dismantled for the buffs and passives to boost other classes.

Erickson9610

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

randconfig

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

I actually find Necro to be in a relatively good spot now. Which is bittersweet because the moment Subclassing goes live, the Necro class will basically be dismantled for the buffs and passives to boost other classes.

It only consumes a corpse on initial cast, and would only generate a corpse after 2 seconds of being there.

It's literally a graveyard, why shouldn't it have corpses in it? ):

I agree Necro is pretty good right now, I would just like a few adjustments given the incoming nerfs to corpse duration and max corpses you can have at a time that are only happening due to subclassing allowing full pet builds.

If we don't make corpse generation better by increasing the sources of corpses, then abilities like Animate Blastbones will just be impossible to use, and all corpse consuming abilities will suffer.

Desiato

No

I have some experience playing Necro tank and it seems to me this would be OP. There's more than enough corpse generation already. That aspect of Necromancer seems very solid.

randconfig

Yes

Desiato wrote: »

I have some experience playing Necro tank and it seems to me this would be OP. There's more than enough corpse generation already. That aspect of Necromancer seems very solid.

The problem with "There's more than enough corpse generation already.", is that the PTS update reduced BOTH the maximum number of corpses you can have and the duration the corpses last.

On live and since Necromancer was added to the game, one of the most frustrating aspects of playing the class is the lack of consistency of corpses to be there when you need them to be, whether that's to reapply a tether, recast boneyard with the bonus damage, or to cast Animate Blastbones.

Rotations get messed up, and the Animate Blastbones ultimate almost never summons all 3 Blastbones (Like 95% of the time you get 1-2 at most, because a corpse despawns before you can cast the ultimate).

Another separate issue is with the Animate Blastbones ultimate itself, the summons always despawn outside of combat after they finish the 2.5s summon time.... So you just waste 300-350 ultimate...

Maybe you guys don't utilize the blastbones/animate blastbones playstyle, but I have since Necromancer first came out, and it's very disappointing that this has never been addressed. Just give players like me at some kind of quality of life improvement, instead of making it dramatically worse with the new/incoming reduced corpse limit and reduced corpse duration.

Erickson9610

Yes

It also makes sense that Boneyard would create corpses, since the animation is literally raising headstones from the ground. It's weird how it's primarily about creating a graveyard around an existing corpse.

DenverRalphy

No

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

Erickson9610

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

DenverRalphy

No

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

That's still not the same as what the OP is asking for.

The class mastery script merely has a mechanic to ensure its buff will take effect when used. And if it does have to provide its own corpse, that buff is at its absolute weakest.

The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse.

Two entirely different things with wildly different results.

randconfig

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

That's still not the same as what the OP is asking for.

The class mastery script merely has a mechanic to ensure its buff will take effect when used. And if it does have to provide its own corpse, that buff is at its absolute weakest.

The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse.

Two entirely different things with wildly different results.

"The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse."

Yes, you would have to cast it once, wait 2 seconds for a corpse to be generated, then recast a second time to get the 30% more damage... That's way different than how you phrased it.

So how would that be broken? Also Warden Swarm gives itself a 50% buff by recasting it.

Desiato

No

It would be broken because Necromancer has so many abilities that are buffed by corpses which would basically be indefinite.

I understand what it's like to have a particular play style broken, but I think if the ult you prefer to use is under-powered, that should be addressed with the ultimate directly, not by buffing corpse generation.

DenverRalphy

No

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

That's still not the same as what the OP is asking for.

The class mastery script merely has a mechanic to ensure its buff will take effect when used. And if it does have to provide its own corpse, that buff is at its absolute weakest.

The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse.

Two entirely different things with wildly different results.

"The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse."

Yes, you would have to cast it once, wait 2 seconds for a corpse to be generated, then recast a second time to get the 30% more damage... That's way different than how you phrased it.

So how would that be broken? Also Warden Swarm gives itself a 50% buff by recasting it.

Because at the inital cast, you just immediatly recast it and can keep it up with 100% uptime.

randconfig

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

That's still not the same as what the OP is asking for.

The class mastery script merely has a mechanic to ensure its buff will take effect when used. And if it does have to provide its own corpse, that buff is at its absolute weakest.

The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse.

Two entirely different things with wildly different results.

"The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse."

Yes, you would have to cast it once, wait 2 seconds for a corpse to be generated, then recast a second time to get the 30% more damage... That's way different than how you phrased it.

So how would that be broken? Also Warden Swarm gives itself a 50% buff by recasting it.

Because at the inital cast, you just immediatly recast it and can keep it up with 100% uptime.

The initial cast doesn't create a corpse though, and you already keep it up 100% in PvE content with any decent rotation.

randconfig

Yes

Desiato wrote: »

It would be broken because Necromancer has so many abilities that are buffed by corpses which would basically be indefinite.

I understand what it's like to have a particular play style broken, but I think if the ult you prefer to use is under-powered, that should be addressed with the ultimate directly, not by buffing corpse generation.

It's not just the ultimate, the entire corpse system is being gutted with no compensation. The entire class has always been micromanging hell, but the changes to corpse duration and maximum pet count including corpses and being limited to 5 in PvP, like why even have corpse consuming abilities at all. I would rather they just remove the corpse system altogether and buff the base performance of the abilities...

I genuinely think the class is dead if this goes live without something more...

DenverRalphy

No

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

That's still not the same as what the OP is asking for.

The class mastery script merely has a mechanic to ensure its buff will take effect when used. And if it does have to provide its own corpse, that buff is at its absolute weakest.

The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse.

Two entirely different things with wildly different results.

"The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse."

Yes, you would have to cast it once, wait 2 seconds for a corpse to be generated, then recast a second time to get the 30% more damage... That's way different than how you phrased it.

So how would that be broken? Also Warden Swarm gives itself a 50% buff by recasting it.

Because at the inital cast, you just immediatly recast it and can keep it up with 100% uptime.

The initial cast doesn't create a corpse though, and you already keep it up 100% in PvE content with any decent rotation.

That's what the OP is asking for. For it to generate a corpse.

And yest a decent rotation will keep it up 100% uptime. But that requires slotting and using another skill, which is a good thing. But allowing a skill to be self sustaining is not a good thing. It's adding power where it shouldn't because now the player wouldn't have to slot one of their usual corpse generators in favor another damage output skill.

Might as well just ask the devs to simply boost Boneyard's damage by 30% permanently. It would pretty much equate to the same thing.

Erickson9610

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

That's still not the same as what the OP is asking for.

The class mastery script merely has a mechanic to ensure its buff will take effect when used. And if it does have to provide its own corpse, that buff is at its absolute weakest.

The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse.

Two entirely different things with wildly different results.

"The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse."

Yes, you would have to cast it once, wait 2 seconds for a corpse to be generated, then recast a second time to get the 30% more damage... That's way different than how you phrased it.

So how would that be broken? Also Warden Swarm gives itself a 50% buff by recasting it.

Because at the inital cast, you just immediatly recast it and can keep it up with 100% uptime.

The initial cast doesn't create a corpse though, and you already keep it up 100% in PvE content with any decent rotation.

That's what the OP is asking for. For it to generate a corpse.

And yest a decent rotation will keep it up 100% uptime. But that requires slotting and using another skill, which is a good thing. But allowing a skill to be self sustaining is not a good thing. It's adding power where it shouldn't because now the player wouldn't have to slot one of their usual corpse generators in favor another damage output skill.

Might as well just ask the devs to simply boost Boneyard's damage by 30% permanently. It would pretty much equate to the same thing.

It wouldn't be the same thing because the skill wouldn't generate corpses, which other corpse consuming abilities (like Templar's Repentance skill, Werewolf's Devour synergy, or other Necromancer abilities) could use. That's also not mentioning how a source of constant corpse generation could play into Necromancer's Class Mastery when using Scribing abilities.

randconfig

Yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

You're also asking for a corpse consumer to generate corpses. Effectively ensuring 100% bonus uptime. That's asking for a bit much.

That's literally what the Necromancer Class Mastery effect does.

No it isn't. The class mastery does not consume corpses. It generates one if one isn't any already available.

The OP is asking for a skill that both consumes and produces corpses simultaneously.

The Necromancer Class Mastery gives you +2% Maximum Stamina, Magicka, and Health for each corpse within 12 meters of you, up to 10 times. Not only that, but it creates a corpse if there aren't any already near you.

The Class Mastery can activate its primary corpse effect off of its secondary corpse effect. It's not overpowered, and neither would this change to Boneyard be.

That's still not the same as what the OP is asking for.

The class mastery script merely has a mechanic to ensure its buff will take effect when used. And if it does have to provide its own corpse, that buff is at its absolute weakest.

The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse.

Two entirely different things with wildly different results.

"The OP is looking to change an aoe damaging skill to always be able to do 30% more damage by generating its own corpse."

Yes, you would have to cast it once, wait 2 seconds for a corpse to be generated, then recast a second time to get the 30% more damage... That's way different than how you phrased it.

So how would that be broken? Also Warden Swarm gives itself a 50% buff by recasting it.

Because at the inital cast, you just immediatly recast it and can keep it up with 100% uptime.

The initial cast doesn't create a corpse though, and you already keep it up 100% in PvE content with any decent rotation.

That's what the OP is asking for. For it to generate a corpse.

And yest a decent rotation will keep it up 100% uptime. But that requires slotting and using another skill, which is a good thing. But allowing a skill to be self sustaining is not a good thing. It's adding power where it shouldn't because now the player wouldn't have to slot one of their usual corpse generators in favor another damage output skill.

Might as well just ask the devs to simply boost Boneyard's damage by 30% permanently. It would pretty much equate to the same thing.

I think there's a misunderstanding. I don't it to instantly create a corpse. I want it to create a corpse once every x seconds. So if you cast it, the first corpse to be generated only happens after x seconds, not instantly.

Desiato wrote: »

I have some experience playing Necro tank and it seems to me this would be OP. There's more than enough corpse generation already. That aspect of Necromancer seems very solid.

Not necessarily, the ability itself costs a lot of magicka and lasts for 10 seconds. So, instead of 2 seconds, if it was designed to generate a corpse every 5 seconds, then it would only generate 2 corpses per cast. That seems reasonable to me.