Putting Companions to work

spartaxoxo

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Mirri was originally described as a "stab ya in the back kind of gal" or something along those lines. She doesn't come across that way at all but I'm not all that surprised to see that description given she's a night blade.

But how would any npc know if she never behaves like that? It's not like she has "nightblade" stamped on her forehead.

I think it's generally a problem to make up things about characters we might have with us most of the time, because it might just not seem believable depending on our playstyle.

Well, Mirri was a treasure hunter prior to meeting us so it's more believable she'd be known than Ember. But, the rest of them have zero believability in that regard, especially Zerith-Var.

But I agreed with your overall point. It doesn't fit with how everyone plays them. I personally don't feel the quests support it well even if it is how you play them because they aren't mentioned.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

For me, it would really depend on how the arrogance was portrayed. Something like the above could be fine, but I would be afraid they would go overboard with it. Arrogance is one of the traits that often gets on my nerves.

How about the player character gets included in the elusive Altmer scholar's arrogance in a kind of "us against the world" thing? "You, my friend, are different. You're brilliant. In you I see potential, an awake mind, while most are fast asleep." My main would probably smile, think "Yeah, I know most people are s'wits.", but he would be amused. He's also arrogant, but the more straightforward sort

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Now a bit undernourished and sleep deprived? I can get behind that. I can definitely empathize with the sleep deprived part, though sadly, not for the same reasons...

I can relate, too, although in my case it's that my body just doesn't require a lot and I rarely feel tired or hungry. If someone would invite me to a restaurant, I could eat, of course, and sometimes I eat something for the taste, but I rarely have the feeling my body requires it. Many years, my metabolism could work with 3 hours of sleep per night and a slice of bread per day. I would also sometimes fast for 10 days, to have more time to do things I'm actually interested in (so yes, normally I'm enjoying the spare time I get from it). I've been asked "How are you even alive?!" by my own mother. The weirdest thing is that I don't even look starved and fatigued. I don't know, I don't question it anymore. Right now it's just a little annoying since I have to force myself to eat at least something (well, not something; it has to be something solid which makes it even more annoying - can't go for ice cream or yoghurt, for example) so I can take my medication (I was persuaded to try something against my inborn anemia, but I don't notice any effect anyway, so I'll probably drop them again - I just want to finish this box since it was expensive; I'll be happy when it's over and I can finally happily not eat anything anymore again). But maybe we should stop with this, as this is not the thread about metabolic diseases in Dunmer Now I'm imagining adding diseases to companions - Mirri having hayfever and Sharp catching spring viremia - who knows, maybe that's the big companion system update.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I don't mind scars. I have scars and I am not an adventurer!

I've been outside a lot when I was younger. Searching for fossils (and of course you don't want to wear gloves on hot summer days) and exploring ruins (a few hundred over the years), but the most idiotic scar I ever caught was from cutting myself with the old, dusty paper of an antique book (and not even my hand, but my chest, from reading in bed in summer). I don't mind scars in general, but that one was silly.

Wereswan

I've often wished we could set our alts to "forage for mats" mode or something when we're not using them (not that they'd actually be out in the game doing this, because the game doesn't need more harvest bots, just passively generating a few.) The idea seems unfair to people who don't have any/many alts, though.

Cooperharley

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If Companions do something other than offer their passive benefit, aid the player in combat, and star in their own questline, then it should be something that doesn't just give the player free things.


Companions shouldn't have the ability to turn surveys and treasure maps into their loot — Assistants should. It's the job of an Assistant to do work for the player character; they can't just unsummon themselves the way Companions can.


Maybe Companions should have radiant/repeatable daily quests to give a reason to interact with each one every day? That's sort of already what we have with the Rapport grind — but this would ideally offer rare dialogue and some "continuation" to the Companion's storyline, since many people seem to want more to do with their Companions.

So you'd rather pay for this feature than have it added on to a system sorely lacking in capabilities? Yikes...

katanagirl1

SilverBride wrote: »

Romance could be something the player has to earn, similar to rapport.

Yeah I guess it would work like that.

I didn’t relate my complete thoughts before as it was late at night when I posted. I will attempt to do a better job now, but for some reason, words are hard for me now, lol.

We as the player make decisions for the companion in the quests. We could decide to choose the option for the companion to be interested in romance, if that is what the player wanted. Following your example of romance being something like rapport gain.

We could also decide to choose an option for the companion to do some errands for us, like treasure maps or surveys, if that is what the player wishes. I am not a huge proponent of this, but can’t find an argument as to why not. If we have them at max rapport and they are max level, then you could argue that they enjoy working together with us and want to help.

If anything, the thought of choosing for them to be our romance partner is more distressing to me than choosing to ask them to do some favors/work for us.

Just my perspective. Hope this helps.

Erickson9610

Cooperharley wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If Companions do something other than offer their passive benefit, aid the player in combat, and star in their own questline, then it should be something that doesn't just give the player free things.


Companions shouldn't have the ability to turn surveys and treasure maps into their loot — Assistants should. It's the job of an Assistant to do work for the player character; they can't just unsummon themselves the way Companions can.


Maybe Companions should have radiant/repeatable daily quests to give a reason to interact with each one every day? That's sort of already what we have with the Rapport grind — but this would ideally offer rare dialogue and some "continuation" to the Companion's storyline, since many people seem to want more to do with their Companions.

So you'd rather pay for this feature than have it added on to a system sorely lacking in capabilities? Yikes...

I'd rather it make sense. I wouldn't personally buy such an Assistant, myself.

Assistants have always done "work" for the player — Companions have never done "work" for the player.


And why does it have to be a Companion thing, anyway? Why not add a new tab to each crafting station for "deconstructing" Surveys into their raw materials? Why not add a quest NPC who works like the master writ turn in NPC who gives you the reward from the Treasure Maps you use?

Seriously — Companions are not so lacking in features that literally anything new glued onto them would be a desirable change. Put this feature on something else, because Companions don't need it (and frankly, they've got enough functionality).

Elvenheart

Syldras wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Mirri was originally described as a "stab ya in the back kind of gal" or something along those lines. She doesn't come across that way at all but I'm not all that surprised to see that description given she's a night blade.

But how would any npc know if she never behaves like that? It's not like she has "nightblade" stamped on her forehead.

I think it's generally a problem to make up things about characters we might have with us most of the time, because it might just not seem believable depending on our playstyle. I wouldn't have any doubts if some npc told me that King Jorunn fathered another 2 children in the past 10 years, or Neramo had been travelling to Murkmire last summer, or that Beragon opened a bookstore in Skingrad for a while, but decided to close it again - that's all possible, we have no close contact to them, we can't know what they did. But if someone told me the same things about Azandar, I'd very much doubt that, because he had been by my main's side more or less permanently since they first met.

As I said, the "celebrity" status wouldn't even be a problem with Azandar, since he's a known scholar, but let's say I just started Ember's questline, or had spent 50% of the time since the completion of Bastian's quest just being in the Archive with him, and the other 50% picking flowers or talking to the house guest version of him - how would they have become famous? It might clash completely with what we've experienced with them and therefore with the image we have gotten of them.

Also, I, personally, find it a bit boring to imagine them all as having been become famous people. Maybe I'd prefer to see Isobel as just a young knight leaving home for the first time, someone who still learns and has no status in Tamriel yet? It somehow seems less diverse to say they're all well-known heroes now.

I agree, I’ve thought this too since seeing this in the quest dialogue. It’s too contrived, and it just doesn’t seem very well thought out.

Ragnarok0130

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I support this idea every time it has come up. Yes, the companions should be able to do stuff other than combat. They should be able to carry their own gear, go get surveys at some sort of cost, etc.

I wish companions were full classes so we can use actual builds for them and not pared down partial classes and could wear player gear. At a minimum we should be able to use our crafting skills to improve companion equipment from white to gold and add enchantments.

Ragnarok0130

kargen27 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If it is a chore then skip and do what is fun. But I agree as I said above. We need more things to bring us to these zones not less.

Skipping things I don't find interesting is exactly the thing I'm doing right now, and I'm sure many other players do the same. I don't see how that would get the zones more populated, though. They need interesting things for people to do, otherwise they won't waste their time on it, and zones will remain empty. That's all I'm saying: Not that activities should be removed, but that surveys are hardly exciting and many people skip them, so there should be other (and most important: more interesting) things added to populate the zones more.

I agree but my comment was directed at the idea that players should be able to have a companion do their surveys. I fully support more things be added to draw players to different zones. I am opposed to taking incentives away from players. Letting an NPC do our surveys takes away a reason for players to go into a zone and my opinion is that would not be good for the game.

Going into old zones to do crafting surveys isn’t adding anything to the zone since we’re not engaging in zone content. We’re just there and for a very quick amount of time before going to the next zone so we don’t even make the zone appear more populated to the average player.

Ragnarok0130

Erickson9610 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Also, might as well allow them to subclass and be able to scribe skills for them too.

I'm not sure about allowing Scribing for Companions anymore. After Tanlorin released, I got the picture ZOS was going for — future Companions will just come with different baked in Class skills.

The other 7 Companions are mentioned by name in the Subclassing quest as examples of their Class — so unless we get an 8th Class with a new Companion of that Class (like with Arcanist and Azandar) then we should expect no other Companions to be "pureclassing", and instead they'll all be "subclassing" like Tanlorin.

In other words, we probably won't get to pick their skills by means of "Companion Scribing" or "Companion Subclassing", because future Companions will likely come with unique combinations of skills that fit their character. After all, Tanlorin is "subclassing" into Soul Magic because of how impactful it is to their character and storyline — it's not "just because".

Tanlorin isn’t a subclassing companion, she’s just a dragon knight with the soul magic skill line replacing one of her DK lines making her closer to the player than other companions since we’re the only one who can use soul magic currently. She’d be a subclassing companion if she was a DK with a warden skill line too.

Erickson9610

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Also, might as well allow them to subclass and be able to scribe skills for them too.

I'm not sure about allowing Scribing for Companions anymore. After Tanlorin released, I got the picture ZOS was going for — future Companions will just come with different baked in Class skills.

The other 7 Companions are mentioned by name in the Subclassing quest as examples of their Class — so unless we get an 8th Class with a new Companion of that Class (like with Arcanist and Azandar) then we should expect no other Companions to be "pureclassing", and instead they'll all be "subclassing" like Tanlorin.

In other words, we probably won't get to pick their skills by means of "Companion Scribing" or "Companion Subclassing", because future Companions will likely come with unique combinations of skills that fit their character. After all, Tanlorin is "subclassing" into Soul Magic because of how impactful it is to their character and storyline — it's not "just because".

Tanlorin isn’t a subclassing companion, she’s just a dragon knight with the soul magic skill line replacing one of her DK lines making her closer to the player than other companions since we’re the only one who can use soul magic currently. She’d be a subclassing companion if she was a DK with a warden skill line too.

It's subclassing because a Class skill line is swapped out for another. "Empathic Fighter" may seem similar to the player's "Soul Magic", which is not a Class skill line, but for Tanlorin it is a Class skill line — it's in the Class category. Tanlorin is subclassing into Empathic Fighter by swapping out Ardent Warrior.

Silaf

I need someone or something to pick up all those crafting surveys for me...

Bastian do you still want an adventure across Tamriel you will never ever forget?

allochthons

SilverBride wrote: »

If they do add romance they need to create some physically appealing options because right now Azandar is the only one.

No, Azandar isn't the only attractive one.

(For the non-Mass Effect fans. Brandon Keener, the voice actor who plays Sharp-As-Night also did the voice for a companion in the Mass Effect trilogy. Garrus Vakarian, pictured above. He is *by far* the most romanced companion for female player characters. And, well, he doesn't exactly look like a Hollywood Leading Man. This line is played during the final flirtation.)

SilverBride

allochthons wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If they do add romance they need to create some physically appealing options because right now Azandar is the only one.

No, Azandar isn't the only attractive one.

Out of the 8 Companions we currently have in ESO, Azandar is the only one I personally find physically appealing.

Syldras

allochthons wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If they do add romance they need to create some physically appealing options because right now Azandar is the only one.

No, Azandar isn't the only attractive one.

I prefer the Altmer scholar.

allochthons

SilverBride wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

If they do add romance they need to create some physically appealing options because right now Azandar is the only one.

No, Azandar isn't the only attractive one.

Out of the 8 Companions we currently have in ESO, Azandar is the only one I personally find physically appealing.

A much different statement than the one I quoted.

Veinblood1965

SilverBride wrote: »

I consider my Companions as equals, not subordinates that work for me. The Companions were developed with personalities and back stories that define who they are. They fight along side us and together we are a team. They should not be used as chore workers.

I'd much rather see the crafting Hirelings put to use since chores is what they do, and they already work for us. They could gather surveys and other tasks for a small fee.

Not me, they do as I say or they can hit the road. Ember started complaining a while back about me killing a bug and that was the last straw, I fired her on the spot. I saw her in Rawalkia a while back where she was sentenced to the stocks until she could keep her big mouth shut according the lady who yells out why people are there. On the other hand maybe if she had chores or errands to run while I was offline she might have been so tired she just felt like being quiet, the OP has a good idea IMO.

All kidding aside, it's a cool idea.

Also it would be a good idea to be able to have our companions allow us to ride on their shoulders using them as mounts, complaining all the while.

JemadarofCaerSalis

SilverBride wrote: »

I consider my Companions as equals, not subordinates that work for me. The Companions were developed with personalities and back stories that define who they are. They fight along side us and together we are a team. They should not be used as chore workers.

I'd much rather see the crafting Hirelings put to use since chores is what they do, and they already work for us. They could gather surveys and other tasks for a small fee.

For me, I look at it this way. If we are given the option of romance or them doing chores, it isn't because we are assigning them the chores, even though, from a player standpoint, we are, but because they *want* the romance or to help us out.

Same reason they are travelling with us. Technically they don't have any choice as it is really easy to keep the rapport up, and they don't have a choice when we summon them. But, storywise, they are happy to help us, and travel with us.

I prefer the Altmer scholar.

Same. At this point, I would take a Dunmer scholar! Preferably Raynor or Revus...

Wildberryjack

So you want followers and mission tables like in WoW. Oh jeez just no. What's the point of even playing if you're having the game play itself?

Erickson9610

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Same reason they are travelling with us. Technically they don't have any choice as it is really easy to keep the rapport up, and they don't have a choice when we summon them. But, storywise, they are happy to help us, and travel with us.

The animation the player character does when summoning a Companion looks like they just spot their Companion in a crowd and wave them over, followed by the Companion giving some short dialogue depending on their rapport with the player character (ranging from happy to see the player to begrudgingly approaching them). It definitely seems like the Companions are meant to join the player by their own free will, since they can easily unsummon themselves if the rapport drops too low.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I prefer the Altmer scholar.

Same. At this point, I would take a Dunmer scholar! Preferably Raynor or Revus...

Revus. He already has a background that you could write interesting and amusing stories with. Not that Raynor hasn't, but Revus seems a bit more flexible in that regard.

kargen27

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If it is a chore then skip and do what is fun. But I agree as I said above. We need more things to bring us to these zones not less.

Skipping things I don't find interesting is exactly the thing I'm doing right now, and I'm sure many other players do the same. I don't see how that would get the zones more populated, though. They need interesting things for people to do, otherwise they won't waste their time on it, and zones will remain empty. That's all I'm saying: Not that activities should be removed, but that surveys are hardly exciting and many people skip them, so there should be other (and most important: more interesting) things added to populate the zones more.

I agree but my comment was directed at the idea that players should be able to have a companion do their surveys. I fully support more things be added to draw players to different zones. I am opposed to taking incentives away from players. Letting an NPC do our surveys takes away a reason for players to go into a zone and my opinion is that would not be good for the game.

Going into old zones to do crafting surveys isn’t adding anything to the zone since we’re not engaging in zone content. We’re just there and for a very quick amount of time before going to the next zone so we don’t even make the zone appear more populated to the average player.

When I am doing surveys in those zones I like seeing other players going to and from those same surveys. I also know many players that are doing surveys will respond to players in those zones wanting help with world bosses. Even if you are just running to the survey site then porting away you are contributing a bit to making the zone feel more populated.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Erickson9610 wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Same reason they are travelling with us. Technically they don't have any choice as it is really easy to keep the rapport up, and they don't have a choice when we summon them. But, storywise, they are happy to help us, and travel with us.

The animation the player character does when summoning a Companion looks like they just spot their Companion in a crowd and wave them over, followed by the Companion giving some short dialogue depending on their rapport with the player character (ranging from happy to see the player to begrudgingly approaching them). It definitely seems like the Companions are meant to join the player by their own free will, since they can easily unsummon themselves if the rapport drops too low.

I know, but I was just saying that they can't technically decline anytime, except when their rapport drops too low, which is pretty hard to do as far as I know.

I could sit there for hours summoning and resummoning the same companion and they would still keep being 'happy' that I summoned them. They could never go 'I have other things I need to do, sorry!'

That is my point, that romance and work are things that there needs to be a separation between 'technical' and 'lorewise'.

Technically companions don't have any choice in coming with us. Nor can they remain with us if we decide to use a different companion. Even at low rapport, from my brief research, it is only a cooldown between when they unsummon themselves and you can resummon them. Which means even though they hate us from a lore standpoint, they don't have any choice in accompanying us from a technical standpoint.

So the same would be for romance and work options. From a technical standpoint, no, they wouldn't have a choice. But, it could be written in a way that lorewise, they are perfectly happy to romance us or help us out.

Revus. He already has a background that you could write interesting and amusing stories with. Not that Raynor hasn't, but Revus seems a bit more flexible in that regard.

Could I also get a two for one deal with Tiras AND Revus?

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Could I also get a two for one deal with Tiras AND Revus?

Nah, how about you take Tiras and... I've got business to do with Revus anyway. Important Telvanni things, you know. Like trying out a few rare wines from Summerset newly made potions. Also, he really needs to take a look at my... new alchemy lab. Yes, the alchemy lab. Not the hot spring behind my tower, why would anyone look at such a thing at all.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Could I also get a two for one deal with Tiras AND Revus?

Nah, how about you take Tiras and... I've got business to do with Revus anyway. Important Telvanni things, you know. Like trying out a few rare wines from Summerset newly made potions. Also, he really needs to take a look at my... new alchemy lab. Yes, the alchemy lab. Not the hot spring behind my tower, why would anyone look at such a thing at all.

Uh oh, we might be about to have our first disagreement...

Plus, I think Revus would prefer my ideas better :P I know a few hidden ruins that absolutely have all sorts of buttons to push, and I can take care of any fallout from it.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Uh oh, we might be about to have our first disagreement...

Plus, I think Revus would prefer my ideas better :P I know a few hidden ruins that absolutely have all sorts of buttons to push, and I can take care of any fallout from it.

[Remark omitted due to questionable content.]

And I have this:



(Just to make sure: We're joking. Everything is alright. No need to inform the guards or the Archmagister.)

Hapexamendios

I'd just like them to be able to carry more equipment. Enough for three builds: DPS, healer and tank

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Uh oh, we might be about to have our first disagreement...

Plus, I think Revus would prefer my ideas better :P I know a few hidden ruins that absolutely have all sorts of buttons to push, and I can take care of any fallout from it.

[Remark omitted due to questionable content.]

And I have this:



(Just to make sure: We're joking. Everything is alright. No need to inform the guards or the Archmagister.)

Oops, too late.

Though, on that note, I am sure Revus would like to visit my Coldharbor estate, that is much more of an archaeological dig than any ruin... *I* am not even sure what is there, and I placed it!

ArchangelIsraphel

sneaks off with the altmer scholar while everyone else is distracted by Revus

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Oops, too late.

Archmagister Otheri will have better things to do
(Meanwhile, Archmagister Otheri has tea with Revus and Tiras).

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Though, on that note, I am sure Revus would like to visit my Coldharbor estate, that is much more of an archaeological dig than any ruin... *I* am not even sure what is there, and I placed it!

I have something like that, too. On several plots of land. I usually call it a garbage dump, though.