Werewolf and Vampire Content (Scribed Skills, Styles & More).

VouxeTheMinotaur

I've posted on different conversations and such of my ideas for future skill styles of general skills from classes, but i think it's time to open the discussion for werewolves and vampires.

My goal for this discussion post is to help ZOS with ideas for Werewolves' and Vampire's skill styles since both of these wonderful transformations seem to be a bit in the mud as of late, and i wonder if its because there's such a restriction on them due to lore reasons? but then again, we can't blame lore being an issue considering the polymorphs and other items in game that would be "lore-breaking."

It's a genuine question, why are werewolves and vampires stuck in the mud? im curious of the reasoning.

@ZOS_Kevin I hope this helps any development team in the ZOS workforce. Stemming off from a section of Frior's Studio Director Letter, of wanting to give additions to previous existing zones and create something of mini events to pump out more content, I feel like this upcoming conversation of werewolf skill styles and werewolf scribing skills would be great for revisiting Riften, a zone that was once THE popular hangout spot in PSNA.


Skill Styles being fairly new into ESO means there's a vast number of ideas that can be said in the future of skill styling, one that I'm looking forward to. I'm particularly looking forward to the advancement of styling going from simple color changes to an overhaul of the animations done when casting certain skills (this is not confirmed by ZOS, just an idea I would be excited to see).

When it comes to Werewolves, i feel the number one skill that needs styling is the ultimate to transform into a werewolf. This one skill can affect the rest of the skills of the player's skill bar, effectively reducing, not eliminating, the need to worry about changing every individual skill.

What i mean by this is having a good number of skill style bundle options for the ultimate, like so:

- "Bloodmoon Wolf (Red and Yellow Combo)": changes the werewolf fur color to pure black, red eyes, dire wolf companions are also black, and skill effects are all hints of red to gold/ yellow. To go further and using the summoned winged twilight's recent skill style, the dire wolf companions could instead be transparent red.
- "Night Howler (Onyx and Purple Combo)": Again, using the summoned winged twilight's change, dire wolf companions are smokey - black, similar to the gloam wolves. skill effects are lilac purple, like the slash and the howl having a purple glowy - aura when used, maybe even the player themselves having a purple smokey - like aura come off them. The player themself are smokey black when using certain skills, like the healing howl, and their eyes glow purple.

Of course, bundling skill styles by tying the theme color to the transformation is not going to be ideal for many, as most players (myself included) like to mix and match their styles. Some skills look nice on their own, while others look better in other colors. Transformation bundling should not be the only skill styling to werewolves, but a good start in my opinion, and I'm only guessing easier for ZOS.


Outside of tying the ultimate to the rest of the skills and focusing on the ultimate, I'd like to ask ZOS how unlikely or difficult it is to make another version of a werewolf model? i imagine it would take some time, but what about just copying an existing model (with a little bit of visual tweaks). I'm talking about the Werewolf Behemoth, seen in both Moon Hunter Keep's supporting enemies during the 2nd to last boss (right before Vykosa) and the final boss of March of Sacrifices.

Similar to the minotaur polymorph, an existing model of a character / creature in game with visual differences, and smaller (because let's face it, as awesome as it would be, a werewolf behemoth of that size in a dungeon or trial, especially more than one, would be bound to have complaints). Tying this to a scribed skill for players who have the werewolf skill line would be not only fun and exciting, but a challenge as well. How? Well:

Affixes, signatures and such are fairly easy to acquire considering you'd need to complete a daily dungeon, open world daily quest, etc to receive them as rewards, but for werewolves, i feel it would be better appropriate to revisit and add werewolf themed content to earn these specific scribing needs. Of course, the dungeons mentioned above would be a couple, as well as completing quests in Skyrim based zones where werewolves are.

Touching back to the behemoth, i know it may be a bit much to ask for even with a miniature sized version of it, so to meet in the middle if this is not possible, why not another ultimate version similar to the memento, where we can tranform into this behemoth as quickly as the vampire transformation, but only for a few seconds or so to dish out a massive bite or clawed swing at the enemy / boss while also a bleed DOT. Just an idea.

I'd also like to ask ZOS to add more involvement surrounding Hircine and his hunting grounds. Create and give Hircine his own event when releasing new werewolf scribing skills along with werewolf skill styles, a whole season, or small seasonal event dedicated to the werewolf lovers of ESO. A small story giving lore and fun of both Hircine and legendary werewolves of Tamriel. Adding maybe a rouge werewolf behemoth or different version of werewolf defying Hircine, where he tasks us of "hunting him down." Maybe another rite of passage for pre-existing werewolves to complete, setting players in a solo run instance through the hunting grounds where we can indefinitely be in our werewolf forms and go through various challenges, similar (but not as difficult please) as Vateshran Hollows or the Halloween event where we need to group up with other werewolves and create a "pack" in a dungeon-like experience where we can all stay in werewolf forms indefinitely while in that event instance, earning players another title along with some kind of signature style around the werewolf theme. A cuirass with wolf fur? a shield depicting hircine? something to mark that event and player's success of the event.

VouxeTheMinotaur

as for vampires, i will have to think about it and come back to the post to write an extensive idea list as i did for werewolves. Please add to this! We need to put a voice out on what we want and don't want if this is the direction ZOS is going

Erickson9610

I'll compose my own wishlist for Werewolf specifically. Most of the ideas I present will be drawn from separate discussions I've previously made about Werewolf. I'll make each of these topics brief, by only focusing on three points of discussion per topic.

The Ability to Sneak (Current Limitations, In-Game Examples, and Lore Accuracy)

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When transformed into a werewolf, you cannot sneak. This has major consequences in various content in the game that require the player to sneak or go invisible, such as the indrik hunts in March of Sacrifices or the Hollowjack boss fight during the Witches Festival. In some cases, not even invisibility can mitigate this problem, such as these lasers in Graven Deep, which must be physically "crouched" under:

The inability to sneak also means that you cannot utilize sets or passives which require sneaking, such as the Sentry set.

However, there actually are sneaking animations for Werewolf that you can see in-game. For instance, here is one video which showcases various Werewolf animations that you cannot normally activate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2xkQSbr6io
You can see this idle sneak animation for yourself if you stand still while transformed, have your weapons sheathed, and are invisible:
https://youtu.be/eYMqCqBr1zQ
And for the record, playable werewolves in TES III: Morrowind (Bloodmoon DLC) were able to sneak, and could even pickpocket:
https://youtu.be/lDmSwCruQFE
That's not to mention that playable werewolves in TES II: Daggerfall specifically received a +30 to their Stealth attribute.

How lore accurate is the idea of a werewolf sneaking around? Well, Hildegard (a werewolf in the Dark Brotherhood) claims to be sneaky:

And of course, there are these "sentry" characters who slowly move around and detect stealthed players. One such sentry is Dreadclaw, who uses that prowling/sneaking animation seen above.


So, while the aim of Werewolf Transformation is to be a melee brawler playstyle, it does make sense thematically to crouch down and hunt your prey. This functionality would allow transformed werewolves to complete a variety of content without needing to drop form and allow them to benefit from item sets they couldn't use before.

Scribing (Grimoires, Scripts, and Potential Author)

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The Werewolf skill line is unique in that you may only use those skills while transformed with Werewolf Transformation, and while transformed, you are not allowed to use any other abilities. A Werewolf Grimoire means that you now have the option to replace one of your existing Werewolf abilities on your bar, to hopefully trade for new effects or buffs that you cannot find elsewhere within Werewolf's toolkit.

I believe that Werewolf's first Grimoire should be useful for damage dealers, tanks, and even healers. My favorite idea I've come up with is an ability called "Hunter's Grounds", which is a ground effect much like Warden's "Secluded Grove" or Templar's "Ritual of Retribution". Here are three mockup configurations of this ability.
Damage Dealer (I'd swap Roar out for this):

Tank (I'd swap Piercing Howl out for this):

Healer (I'd swap Infectious Claws out for this):


The Scripts for each Grimoire have different effects. In particular, the Script I'm most interested in is Wayfarer's Mastery, which has some effect that relates to that Grimoire's skill line's passives or abilities in some manner. For Werewolf, I'd propose some of the following, depending on the Werewolf Grimoire in question:

• Grants you the bonus of the Blood Rage passive ability, increasing the duration of your Werewolf Transformation.
• Enemies hit are afflicted with the Terrified effect, increasing their damage taken from your Piercing Howl ability.
• Enemies take 10% more damage from this ability when Terrified.
• Reduces the cost of Werewolf Transformation for affected allies and grants them the bonus of their Blood Rage passive, extending the duration of their Werewolf Transformation.

I do hope that the Class Mastery Script is allowed to be used with Werewolf Grimoires. If Class Mastery had the exact same functionality on Werewolf Grimoires that it has on every other Grimoire, you'd get the following effects:

• Dragonknight — You'd gain up to 300 Weapon and Spell Damage and up to 8% reduced Damage Taken. Those are the maximum values if this Script is activated with 6+ enemies within 8 meters.
• Sorcerer — If you have no pets (Werewolf Berserker morph) then you'd deal Shock Damage to enemies within 8 meters of your first target. If you do have pets (Pack Leader morph) then you'd enchant your closest dire wolf to heal a nearby ally each time it deals damage, which would make Sorcerer Werewolf the only Class Werewolf able to crossheal allies without the use of item sets.
• Templar — You'd gain 1320 Armor and 150 Weapon and Spell Damage. You cannot proc Sacred Ground on yourself while transformed, so you cannot get the +50% bonus.
• Nightblade — You'd restore Magicka and Stamina if your target is above 50% Health, or increase your Critical Chance by 10% if they were at or below 50% Health.
• Warden — You'd create an 8 meter area that snares enemies by 70% and charms them for 3 seconds when it expires. If no enemy was charmed, then you restore Magicka and Stamina.
• Necromancer — You'd create a corpse if there are none nearby, which you can Devour to restore Health and Werewolf Transformation duration, as well as use to proc the Corpseburster set. If there are corpses nearby, then you increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina by up to 20%; these maximum values are provided there are 10+ corpses near you.
• Arcanist — You'd create a Crux, which allows Arcanist Werewolf to benefit from certain Class Passives that they couldn't benefit from before, such as Healing Tides (up to +9% Healing Done if you maintain 3 active Crux) and Hideous Clarity (restore Magicka or Stamina)/Fated Fortune (+12% Critical Healing) if you strategically let Crux disappear after 30 seconds of not using the ability to "consume" the expired Crux.

Though, maybe it would be better to make Class Mastery work in a more beneficial way for Werewolf Grimoires, especially in cases where they tie into Class abilities which cannot be accessed in Werewolf form, such as how Templar's is the only Class Mastery to have an additional effect for using Class abilities (the % increase to the bonus if affected by Sacred Ground) or how Arcanist's generates Crux which is mostly useless without the use of Arcanist abilities to consume it.

One thing of note is that new Grimoires seem to be penned by some author in-world. For instance, the new Banner Bearer Grimoire for the Support skill line was written by a Battlemage V'erissh, according to a lorebook sitting in the merchant room in the Scholarium:


So, who would write a Scribing Grimoire specifically for werewolves to use, and why would the Mages Guild sell it, if it's supposedly a Criminal Act ability? Well, it makes sense to me that a Reachman would have the ability and desire to adapt Ulfsild's lost art for lycanthropes to use. Maybe it'd be sourced from someone in Fargrave, found left behind in Moon Hunter Keep by Archivist Ernarde, or acquired directly from Hircine. Regardless of who wrote it, it'll probably need to be acquired from somewhere other than the Scholarium if the Mages Guild would refuse to sell it. Maybe it could be bought from the Infinite Archive, found in the world, or given as a questline reward. Perhaps a Werewolf Companion would be willing to give us a Werewolf Grimoire they penned as a quest reward.

Skill Styling (Which Abilities, Existing Examples, and Sourcing)

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Werewolf was lucky to receive a Skill Style in Update 43. As mentioned in the section about Scribing, Werewolves are limited to only their own abilities, meaning Roar, Verdant Green is currently the only Skill Style they can use. Further, none of their Skins, Head/Body Markings, Costumes, or Polymorphs have any effect on their Werewolf form appearance. Actually, the only thing that changes their appearance is their chosen morph of the Werewolf Transformation ability, so it's reasonable to assume that Skill Styles for Werewolf Transformation can be used to change your Werewolf form's appearance.

Currently, players can use brown fur (unmorphed Werewolf Transformation), white fur (Pack Leader morph), or black fur (Werewolf Berserker morph). There are actually many more fur colors in-game, such as grey fur and black fur without white spots:

That's not all — some werewolves in-game use different models, such as the "undead" model that Faolchu uses, or this skeletal werewolf model seen in Unhallowed Grave:

Finally, unique Werewolf Transformation Skill Styles could be inspired by existing wolf or Werewolf Behemoth fur patterns which may include markings such as tattoos or paint emplaced on the fur:


To imagine how these wolf-like fur patterns would look on a werewolf, look at these examples from community mods made for TES V: Skyrim's werewolf:

For the other Werewolf abilities, here's some Skill Style ideas which I think would look cool:

• Pounce — Harrowstorm-themed. This would change the VFX of the dust kicked up and the claw swipe of Carnage to have the red lightning that Harrowstorms in Western Skyrim and The Reach have.
• Hircine's Bounty — Green. Like Roar, Verdant Green, this seems to be the thematic color for anything regarding Hircine. Because Hircine's Fortitude is yellow and Hircine's Rage is red, giving both morphs a green tint would make this ability more visually consistent. Hircine's Fortitude could be a lighter green, while Hircine's Rage could be a darker green.
• Roar — Frost. I'm mainly inspired by the Werewolf Behemoth's frost breath ability (for players, it's Hircine's Howl on ability slot 5, but other Werewolf Behemoths such as Balorgh use a similar attack, too) but this would also be nice to have for an "ice wolf" theme if you're using white fur. I like the frost theme from the New Life Styles: Winter pack, so hopefully Werewolf could have something like that they could use instead of the green-colored saliva from Roar, Verdant Green.
• Piercing Howl — Orange. This ability is naturally not very colorful, but if changed to an orange color, it could possibly resemble fire, which would be fun.
• Infectious Claws — Blood. This attack's VFX is already red, but if it had some visceral particles added to it, then it would really resemble a werewolf eviscerating someone. I'd prefer this the most out of these five suggestions!

The sourcing of Werewolf Skill Styles is another matter of debate. For Werewolf Transformation specifically, I want the brown fur, black fur, white fur, and grey fur to be made available without payment or DLC requirement for players with Werewolf characters. To do this, I think all morphs of Werewolf Transformation should default to the brown fur, so that players can change the fur color independent of morph using Skill Styles. I propose the following sources:

• Werewolf Transformation, Black Fur — Earned from the Werewolf Corpse Devourer achievement (devour 100 corpses in Werewolf form)
• Werewolf Transformation, White Fur — Earned from the Werewolf Sire achievement (infect another player with lycanthropy)
• Werewolf Transformation, Grey Fur — Earned from the Wandering Werewolf achievement (devour a corpse in all three alliance capital cities)

Then, I think particular Werewolf Transformation Skill Styles such as the undead and skeletal werewolf should be acquired from the Crown Store, particularly around the time of the Witches Festival. Unique fur colors (as mentioned above) could be made and it would be awesome to acquire those as quest rewards from werewolf or Hircine-related DLC. Skill Styles for Werewolf's other abilities could be acquired from more fragment hunts, just like Roar, Verdant Green is. A Werewolf Companion may have a unique fur design, which could be given to players as a quest reward or obtained from the Crown Store, the way Tanlorin's unique cosmetics are now available to players.

Companions (Functionality, Combat Abilities, and Characterization)

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From the Companions Q&A, it was confirmed that we may get Werewolf Companions at some point in the future:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Q: What is the team's stance on vampire/werewolf companions? Are there any plans to introduce more than 2 companions per year?

PD: Vampire and werewolf companions are not off the table for future companions. There are no plans to increase the companion release rate at this time. (They take a lot of work from a large number of talented developers, and we want to make sure we’re taking the time to get them as good as they can possibly be.)

***

So, given our knowledge of the Companions system and how it (for the most part) parallels the Player combat system, how might we adapt a Companion to use Werewolf abilities? How and when would a Werewolf Companion transform, and what abilities would they have?

We know that a transformed werewolf cannot use humanoid abilities. So, the Companion's Werewolf skill line cannot replace the damage dealer skill line of their Class, the way Tanlorin's Dragonknight damage dealer skill line (usually called Ardent Warrior) was replaced with the Companion version of the Soul Magic skill line, called Empathic Fighter.

When transformed, a Player Werewolf has a new skill bar of just Werewolf abilities — so in this special case, I'd expect the Companion Werewolf skill line to have 5 abilities, rather than 3, so that the entire Werewolf skill bar can be filled. If the Companion Werewolf skill line is separate from the Class skill lines, then it could still be leveled up with XP, just as Class skill lines are.

A Companion also only ever has one Ultimate which is unique to them, and it is always located in their damage dealer skill line. Players transform into their werewolf form using an Ultimate ability, but this doesn't necessarily have to be the case with Companions. So, here's two different approaches that could solve this problem:

1. The transformation ability could be an Ultimate Ability found in the Werewolf skill line in the World category.
   • This approach would unfortunately prevent a Werewolf Companion from transforming until they reach Level 20, which many players will never see. Still, this is the most similar to the Player implementation of Werewolf. This would be the first case of a Companion having more than one Ultimate ability to choose from, provided they still get an Ultimate ability for their Class.
2. The transformation ability could be a Passive Ability found in the Werewolf skill line in the World category. It could be triggered by a condition, such as:
   • "Used when <Companion Name> is below 50% Health or if you are using Werewolf Transformation."
   • "Used when <Companion Name> is below 75% Health and is fighting a difficult monster."

Visualized, here are those two approaches, with different ability "morphs" for different Werewolf Companions to have:

The combat abilities specifically must be adapted to Companion combat, but should still take inspiration from the Player version of those abilities. Using the above image as an example, here's what I think the Companion version of these abilities might look like:

• Werewolf Transformation
  • Lycanthropic Shift — Costs 200 Ultimate. Transforms the Companion into a Werewolf for 90 seconds or until combat ends.
  • Beastly Conversion — Actives when the Companion is below 50% Health or if you are using Werewolf Transformation. Transforms the Companion into a Werewolf for 90 seconds or until combat ends.
• Pounce
  • Unrestrained Leap — 16 second cooldown. Gap closer that deals single target Bleed Damage. Adds 5 seconds to the Companion's transformation.
  • Bloody Lunge — 16 second cooldown. Gap closer that deals AoE Bleed Damage.
• Hircine's Bounty
  • Steadfast Howl — 16 second cooldown. Used when the Companion is below 75% Health. Heals for 50% of Max Health. Reduces the Companion's Damage Taken by 20%.
  • Infuriated Howl — 8 second cooldown. Used when the Companion is below 75% Health. Heals for 25% of Max Health. Grants the Companion Major Berserk, increasing Damage Done by 10%.
• Roar
  • Rousing Roar (remember that name?) — 12 second cooldown. Fears nearby enemies and taunts the first enemy feared.
  • Intimidating Roar — 12 second cooldown. Fears nearby enemies and applies the Terrified effect to them.
• Piercing Howl
  • Uproar of Distress — 8 second cooldown. Single target projectile that deals Physical Damage. Grants a synergy to the player, increasing Damage Done by 5%.
  • Uproar of Torment — 8 second cooldown. Single target projectile that deals Physical Damage. Deals 10% additional damage to enemies who are Terrified.
• Infectious Claws
  • Sanctioned Rend — 12 second cooldown. Cone AoE that deals Disease Damage and additional Disease Damage over time. Companion heals for a percentage of damage done.
  • Defiled Rend — 12 second cooldown. Cone AoE that deals Disease Damage and additional Disease Damage over time. Enemies are afflicted with Minor Defile.

It's important to note that if the Werewolf Companion can transform, then they're going to need to have sneaking animations if the player suddenly decides to crouch while the Companion is transformed. Fortunately, werewolves do have sneaking animations in-game already.

As far as characterization goes, there are many interesting stories that can be told and enhanced using lycanthropy. A very common theme with werewolves is the "duality of man", where a person may outwardly present themselves in one way but who actually represses or hides their true nature. In fact, some werewolf characters in ESO already have similar tropes in their storylines. Since I've put so much emphasis on Werewolf Companions having Werewolf abilities separate from their humanoid abilities, why not tell a story about a Companion whose Class abilities are that of a Templar but who also can use Werewolf abilities, to further emphasize the juxtaposition between both halves of their character?

A Companion's Werewolf form can also have a unique fur color that only they have, to make them visually distinct from NPC werewolves. This appearance could later be given to players as a Werewolf Transformation Skill Style.

Finally, here's a few ideas for unique Rapport sources, which might be important to a character with lycanthropy:

• Approval
  • Killing wild animals, such as deer and rabbits. Werewolves have a drive to hunt, and it's hard to imagine they would turn down an opportunity to do so. Whether they disapprove of murdering innocents depends on the werewolf in question; there are some werewolves in ESO who don't like it. Plus I'd really like to hear a Companion approve of me killing wild animals instead of giving a condescending remark.
  • Crafting a Pack Leader's Bone Broth, or a Provisioning item containing meat. I would imagine a werewolf would enjoy food like that.
• Disapproval
  • Killing a Werewolf. Many werewolves are uneasy about werewolf hunters always tracking them down. Some even fled to Moon Hunter Keep for protection! They definitely wouldn't want to travel with a werewolf hunter.
  • Crafting a Jewelry item with Silver Ounces (CP 10 - CP 70) or a Blacksmithing item with Quicksilver Ingots (CP 70 - CP 80). One of the disapproval sources that I doubt many players would complain about — silver is a threat to werewolves, so crafting with silver is likely to make a Werewolf Companion nervous.

I hope I've done a well-enough job of describing some of the limitations of the Werewolf playstyle, how these features can address some of those limitations and improve the user experience, and how Werewolf in general may be adapted for the Companions system and how it could tie into the other features.

Here's a quick bullet point list to describe how the sections of this post connect to one another:

• Player Werewolves can't sneak, but there are sneaking animations that werewolves use. If a player sneaks while their Werewolf Companion is transformed, then their Companion is also going to try to sneak — so Werewolf sneaking should be addressed before a Werewolf Companion is implemented.
• Companions all have unique appearances meant to help them stand apart from generic NPCs. So, a Werewolf Companion should also have a unique look for their werewolf form. This unique look could be given to players as a Werewolf Transformation Skill Style.
• Grimoires are all written in-world by some character. Maybe the author of our very first Werewolf Grimoire could actually be our first Werewolf Companion? Perhaps they're an intellectual who tries to improve and/or cure lycanthropy, not too unlike Archivist Ernarde of Moon Hunter Keep. Maybe this Companion grants you the Werewolf Grimoire as a reward during their questline, and that's why it's not sold by the Mages Guild in the Scholarium?

And since I'd hate to waste all of this time and effort, I might as well ping a few people so they can read this feedback and pass it on to the relevant teams whenever they're back from the holidays:
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_PhilipDraven @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_KiraS

Taril

As far as Werewolves and Vampires go:

Skill Styles isn't really much of an issue. It's simply a matter of them getting around to implementing things.

We see that they've already got a recolour for Roar for WW. There's also Feral Guardian and recent Flappy Birb that show us that the WW form itself can get a skill style no problem.

The only concern is how much of a priority these things are, given how niche many skills are (WW's being not particularly meta and Vamps mostly focusing on Eviscerate and Mist Form) - Made somewhat worse by the limitations of becoming one of either given the trash spawn rates of the enemies meaning you have to find someone to give you a bite.

Scribing on the other hand does present some interesting concepts. Notably in how Werewolves are locked to a single bar and can only use Werewolf skills. So having a scribed skill would mean there would be more available skills than can be slotted for a WW character.

Outside of that, the only notable problem would be the fact that someone could have WW/Vampire scribed skill but not actually be a WW/Vampire (If they were cured or are using a different armoury slot). Which could cause some issues in how they implement things.

In regards to WW/Vamp content, it'd be nice. Though unlikely given the whole limitation surrounding actually becoming one. Which I don't see them making easier given they're still selling bites in the Crown Store.

Of course, it would be most excellent if they did in fact, make it easier to become a WW/Vamp as well as add in new content for them, such as questlines, companions that are WW's/Vamps as well as overhauling various aspects of them such as rebalncing skills and armour sets.

While introducing new skill styles (Maybe also a Skin to de-uglify the Vampire effect - Which would be lore friendly since according the the lore one of the reasons why vampires are so hated is because they can blend in to society. How is anyone supposed to blend in when it looks like they poured tabasco into their eyes?)

Erickson9610

Taril wrote: »

Outside of that, the only notable problem would be the fact that someone could have WW/Vampire scribed skill but not actually be a WW/Vampire (If they were cured or are using a different armoury slot). Which could cause some issues in how they implement things.

Fun fact about that: You can acquire Grimoires for skill lines you don't have, such as Fighters Guild, Two Handed, and Assault. You need the relevant achievement on another character to be able to purchase the Grimoire, but any character can purchase Grimoires even if they haven't earned the achievement on that character.

What happens when you do so is you temporarily get access to that skill line, but it's completely greyed out. You cannot place any abilities from that skill line onto your skill bar. If you have an open space on your skill bar when you scribe the ability, it's placed onto your skill bar, even if you don't own that skill line. Logging out and back in to that character hides the skill line, but you keep the ability on your bar.

The only way this can be exploited in regards to Werewolf and Vampire Grimoires is if you Scribe the Vampire Grimoire while currently being a non-Vampire, and have an open space on your skill bar. This would presumably place the Vampire ability on your human form skill bar, allowing you to have access to a Vampire ability without having the associated curse and skill line. Since you can't use Werewolf abilities without Werewolf Transformation, non-Werewolf characters cannot benefit from slotting the Werewolf Grimoire ability on their human form skill bar.

Also remember that your Skill Points are refunded when you cure/remove the Werewolf or Vampire skill lines, so you'll never have the Passive Abilities unlocked when the skill line is greyed out. So, you won't be able to benefit from Vampire passives while being a Werewolf by using the Scribing system in this manner.


The easiest way to fix this would be to disallow players from Scribing or changing Scripts for Grimoires for skill lines which they do not currently own. A player should actually have the Vampire skill line to scribe a Vampire Grimoire, for instance.

As of right now, the only thing this bug allows players to do is use the Scribing abilities for the Assault, Support, Weapon, Fighters Guild, and Mages Guild skill lines without formally unlocking them. It's really not game-breaking, because you instantly unlock the Weapon skill lines when killing an enemy with that weapon equipped (which you'll likely do with your Scribing ability anyway), you instantly unlock Assault and Support when gaining Alliance Points, and you can easily unlock Fighters Guild and Mages Guild just by talking to an NPC. None of those skill lines can be removed, and there's no advantage to using their Scribing abilities without their passives.