So, we're still getting a new trial right?

OtarTheMad

I am sure we will get a trial but question is when.

Also trials existed before Arc and will exist after we get it overnerfed. Play what you want in the trial, if you’re dps is up to par it should be fine. If you’re in a sweaty group then find one that isn’t or make your own.

sarahthes

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am sure we will get a trial but question is when.

Also trials existed before Arc and will exist after we get it overnerfed. Play what you want in the trial, if you’re dps is up to par it should be fine. If you’re in a sweaty group then find one that isn’t or make your own.

I hope they don't nerf it. Arcanist has been the best thing for getting new blood into endgame in years.

mocap

Soarora wrote: »

It would not be better for ZOS to add a story mode instead of a new trial, because people who do trials as their main content are not the target audience for a story mode.

Then add new trial AND story mode, so everyone will be happy. Nerds will get their trifecta love xd, everyone else will get what they want.

Sakiri

sarahthes wrote: »

maxxiestackhouse wrote: »

I personally won’t do trials new or existing if I can avoid it simply for the fact it’s usually me and 9 Arcanist dps…….. so until the meta shifts I’ll avoid perma beam and perma crux’s and so much green I feel like I’m face planted in lush grass.

Most organized groups have at least 1 dk, 1 cro, and 1 sorc dps. So you could play one of those classes instead of arcanist.

You mean zenkosh jail, ec jail and MK jail.

Soarora

If arc gets nerfed, then it’ll just be DK meta again. Just nerfing arc won’t solve anyones problems, it’ll create new ones because DK is much harder. I think arc meta is the least of our worries, but eventually it’d be nice for each class to bring something unique to the table that actually matters, on every role. Maybe diminishing returns on group buffs depending on how many of what class is in there or something. Or bring in elemental damage.

katanagirl1

sarahthes wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am sure we will get a trial but question is when.

Also trials existed before Arc and will exist after we get it overnerfed. Play what you want in the trial, if you’re dps is up to par it should be fine. If you’re in a sweaty group then find one that isn’t or make your own.

I hope they don't nerf it. Arcanist has been the best thing for getting new blood into endgame in years.

Also old, old blood like mine, lol.

OtarTheMad

sarahthes wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I am sure we will get a trial but question is when.

Also trials existed before Arc and will exist after we get it overnerfed. Play what you want in the trial, if you’re dps is up to par it should be fine. If you’re in a sweaty group then find one that isn’t or make your own.

I hope they don't nerf it. Arcanist has been the best thing for getting new blood into endgame in years.

Completely agree. I really like Arcanist. There is a good amount of players asking for a nerf though. Even though that won’t help their situation. Hope I’m wrong because it’s a fun class, even in PvP where it’s not top dog. Trying to find fun ways to troll and have fun with the portals.

OtarTheMad

Soarora wrote: »

If arc gets nerfed, then it’ll just be DK meta again. Just nerfing arc won’t solve anyones problems, it’ll create new ones because DK is much harder. I think arc meta is the least of our worries, but eventually it’d be nice for each class to bring something unique to the table that actually matters, on every role. Maybe diminishing returns on group buffs depending on how many of what class is in there or something. Or bring in elemental damage.

This. Yes!

Got to stop giving each class every buff and make them unique instead and also change the other side and make some mechanics that would benefit bringing another class. Diminishing returns would be interesting, but if groups stop following the leader blindly and just do trials I think it’d be good too. Too many just see what the 1% are doing and just follow it.

Desiato

It's rare for Trial groups to restrict classes outside of hard mode comps. Even then, a reasonable rl isn't going to stress about optimal group comps unless they are progging a trifecta. The one big exception might be vAS+2, but if the rl knows you, it's probably np.

Once a player is comfortable with trial mechs, they can play any class they want in any role for gf vet randoms and I doubt anyone will ever complain. With that said, don't do gf vet pugs unless you know what to do or else others may not be kind.

I agree the current status of Arcanist in trials isn't ideal, but the idea that other classes are banished from vet trials is ridiculous.

The real reasons you see so many Arcs in trials is because they're easiest to play and because dps players tend to be obsessed with trying to win the hodor reflexes mini-game which is probably easiest for most players on arc.

The single word that best describes the eso trial community is probably chill. Too chill for me, to be honest because I'm a hopeless tryhard and want everyone else to be as focused as I am. It's super relaxed, highly social and easy going for the most part. One just needs to take the time to learn the mechs.

Soarora

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

If arc gets nerfed, then it’ll just be DK meta again. Just nerfing arc won’t solve anyones problems, it’ll create new ones because DK is much harder. I think arc meta is the least of our worries, but eventually it’d be nice for each class to bring something unique to the table that actually matters, on every role. Maybe diminishing returns on group buffs depending on how many of what class is in there or something. Or bring in elemental damage.

This. Yes!

Got to stop giving each class every buff and make them unique instead and also change the other side and make some mechanics that would benefit bringing another class. Diminishing returns would be interesting, but if groups stop following the leader blindly and just do trials I think it’d be good too. Too many just see what the 1% are doing and just follow it.

Yeah, blindly following the 1% isn't really a good idea. As far as I understand it, trial compositions are like a bell curve where low and high skill groups do weird things and middle groups are more the type to stick to a strategy like its law. The 1% can pull things off most people can’t because the entire group is high-skill and there’s multiple people with very good ideas, so really shouldn’t be directly trying to do what they’re doing because then run into doing strats/builds wrong and/or not having high enough dps to pull off strats and making it worse.

Sakiri

Desiato wrote: »

It's rare for Trial groups to restrict classes outside of hard mode comps. Even then, a reasonable rl isn't going to stress about optimal group comps unless they are progging a trifecta. The one big exception might be vAS+2, but if the rl knows you, it's probably np.

Once a player is comfortable with trial mechs, they can play any class they want in any role for gf vet randoms and I doubt anyone will ever complain. With that said, don't do gf vet pugs unless you know what to do or else others may not be kind.

I agree the current status of Arcanist in trials isn't ideal, but the idea that other classes are banished from vet trials is ridiculous.

The real reasons you see so many Arcs in trials is because they're easiest to play and because dps players tend to be obsessed with trying to win the hodor reflexes mini-game which is probably easiest for most players on arc.

The single word that best describes the eso trial community is probably chill. Too chill for me, to be honest because I'm a hopeless tryhard and want everyone else to be as focused as I am. It's super relaxed, highly social and easy going for the most part. One just needs to take the time to learn the mechs.

I'd disagree on the chill part. I want to do tris but can't unless I play arc.

Desiato

Sakiri wrote: »

I'd disagree on the chill part. I want to do tris but can't unless I play arc.

I didn't say trifecta groups are chill! They are a different beast and obviously not intended for all players

However, trifecta groups are not reflective of the trial community as a whole. Not even close. I feel I've thoroughly explored it the past eight months, probably having observed over two dozen trial discord communities and countless gf pugs, in addition to some HM cores.

While I was personally frustrated I couldn't find a serious core that would give me a chance without core group progging to produce the logs they required, I think the trial community in ESO is incredibly kind and accepting overall.

And also, I understand why the trifecta cores are so selective. I just didn't want to go through that process. My HMs are vet gf pugs! There's a particular term we use, but I'm afraid the forum mods would misunderstand it.

Those in the trifecta community tend not to be married to classes or roles. An ideal trifecta player is flexible, able to perform any role the group needs.

But with that said, I've recently watched top groups try to break records with parse dks and templars as part of their group comp... In gf recent pugs, I've observed really strong parse necros too.

tomofhyrule

Sakiri wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

It's rare for Trial groups to restrict classes outside of hard mode comps. Even then, a reasonable rl isn't going to stress about optimal group comps unless they are progging a trifecta. The one big exception might be vAS+2, but if the rl knows you, it's probably np.

Once a player is comfortable with trial mechs, they can play any class they want in any role for gf vet randoms and I doubt anyone will ever complain. With that said, don't do gf vet pugs unless you know what to do or else others may not be kind.

I agree the current status of Arcanist in trials isn't ideal, but the idea that other classes are banished from vet trials is ridiculous.

The real reasons you see so many Arcs in trials is because they're easiest to play and because dps players tend to be obsessed with trying to win the hodor reflexes mini-game which is probably easiest for most players on arc.

The single word that best describes the eso trial community is probably chill. Too chill for me, to be honest because I'm a hopeless tryhard and want everyone else to be as focused as I am. It's super relaxed, highly social and easy going for the most part. One just needs to take the time to learn the mechs.

I'd disagree on the chill part. I want to do tris but can't unless I play arc.

It all depends on the raid lead.

Many raid leads are beholden to a meta and won't deviate - I've seen people post basic clear runs that ask for the HM meta composition because they can't handle farming something 0.0002 seconds slower than the meta time. Simple answer: I don't run with those groups.

My main core is a lot more flexible with classes. There are a lot of people who run Arc because it's easy and you can get high damage with low APM. But my raid lead allows people to bring the class they want as long as they pull their weight.

Case in point: my DB from last week

That's 6 of the 7 classes represented, 5 of which are on a DPS role. The Sorc was in MK and one of the DKs was a Z'enkosh, but otherwise it's a pretty decent spread there. The highest DPS was the necro in Riptide/Corpseburster, and the third and fourth were the non-Z'enkosh DK and Templar respectively.
So why do they use Arc DPS if they're not the top? They were top healing from DPS (because of Pragmatic shield) and the bottom 4 CPM were the three Arc DPS and the Necro tank. It's because it's easy to play, it's really survivable, and it outputs nice DPS. While the other classes could put out more DPS, they needed a lot more work to get there. But it's not impossible to do hard trials (or trifectas!) on a non-Arc, as much as some not-as-good raid leads want to believe.

Now yes, that's DB, which has depreciated compared to the later trials. After that point, people are going to be more demanding. But trying to say that only Arcs are allowed in just a standard vet is just raid leads being ridiculous.

BananaBender

Soarora wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

If arc gets nerfed, then it’ll just be DK meta again. Just nerfing arc won’t solve anyones problems, it’ll create new ones because DK is much harder. I think arc meta is the least of our worries, but eventually it’d be nice for each class to bring something unique to the table that actually matters, on every role. Maybe diminishing returns on group buffs depending on how many of what class is in there or something. Or bring in elemental damage.

This. Yes!

Got to stop giving each class every buff and make them unique instead and also change the other side and make some mechanics that would benefit bringing another class. Diminishing returns would be interesting, but if groups stop following the leader blindly and just do trials I think it’d be good too. Too many just see what the 1% are doing and just follow it.

Yeah, blindly following the 1% isn't really a good idea. As far as I understand it, trial compositions are like a bell curve where low and high skill groups do weird things and middle groups are more the type to stick to a strategy like its law. The 1% can pull things off most people can’t because the entire group is high-skill and there’s multiple people with very good ideas, so really shouldn’t be directly trying to do what they’re doing because then run into doing strats/builds wrong and/or not having high enough dps to pull off strats and making it worse.

I agree 100%. Arcanist isn't the highest potential damage, which is why there are a bunch of top groups running different classes. But for 90% of all groups, arcanist is just by far the best class and it's not even close. You just get so much of everything for free.

I backed up for a GS prog recently and it's just beyond stupid what you can do by just pressing pretty much one button.

I think arcanist is just way too effective for how incredibly little you actually have to play the game.

I personally just dislike playing arcanist, which is why I don't join groups which require arcanist. But I think that's just a really lazy solution to this problem where you get the same of better result by pressing one button than you do by actually playing something else.

It's too late for them to nuke arcanist, because it's too deep rooted in the meta, so the only real option is to buff other classes, so people have a reason to go through the effort of learning other classes.

laniakea_0

A larger more complicated trial or more than one regular trial also seem plausible since they no longer have to focus as much on filling a chapter sized expansion.

sarahthes

Sakiri wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

maxxiestackhouse wrote: »

I personally won’t do trials new or existing if I can avoid it simply for the fact it’s usually me and 9 Arcanist dps…….. so until the meta shifts I’ll avoid perma beam and perma crux’s and so much green I feel like I’m face planted in lush grass.

Most organized groups have at least 1 dk, 1 cro, and 1 sorc dps. So you could play one of those classes instead of arcanist.

You mean zenkosh jail, ec jail and MK jail.

Not necessarily. Corpseburster necro does really well right now and dk is top for specific fights too.

Heck the sweatiest of sweaty comps for cloudrest actually run a lot of stamblades and plars. It's kinda neat.

forum_gpt

Oh, you're already done with all the current trifectas too? Always exciting to see what new challenges they might bring!

sarahthes

forum_gpt wrote: »

Oh, you're already done with all the current trifectas too? Always exciting to see what new challenges they might bring!

People like running trials on a variety of difficulty levels and like always having new ones to run. Why do they have to have all trifectas completed to want new trials?

moderatelyfatman

Well, I'm sure everything is planned in advanced so we'll probably get a trial next year that's bundled into one of the seasons.
The question is if the Seasons don't sell well, will we get one in 2026?

Sakiri

Trying to break into the endgame has broken me so...

sarahthes

Sakiri wrote: »

Trying to break into the endgame has broken me so...

What server do you play on?

Soarora

Sakiri wrote: »

Trying to break into the endgame has broken me so...

Me too, but just gotta keep trying till you find the right place and people I suppose. I found one of my favorite cores through zone chat hehe.

alpha_synuclein

sarahthes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

maxxiestackhouse wrote: »

I personally won’t do trials new or existing if I can avoid it simply for the fact it’s usually me and 9 Arcanist dps…….. so until the meta shifts I’ll avoid perma beam and perma crux’s and so much green I feel like I’m face planted in lush grass.

Most organized groups have at least 1 dk, 1 cro, and 1 sorc dps. So you could play one of those classes instead of arcanist.

You mean zenkosh jail, ec jail and MK jail.

Not necessarily. Corpseburster necro does really well right now and dk is top for specific fights too.

Heck the sweatiest of sweaty comps for cloudrest actually run a lot of stamblades and plars. It's kinda neat.

If you have a very good group you can pretty much turn Cloudrest into a single target situation. But when was the last time we got a fight where st damage was really that important? With Falgraven maybe?
Arcanist is the easiest cleave possible and overall it wins the dps competition for vast majority of players and situations. Which might indeed be good to bring new people in, but it's way to powerful to incentivize new blood to progress from new to something more advanced.

sarahthes

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

maxxiestackhouse wrote: »

I personally won’t do trials new or existing if I can avoid it simply for the fact it’s usually me and 9 Arcanist dps…….. so until the meta shifts I’ll avoid perma beam and perma crux’s and so much green I feel like I’m face planted in lush grass.

Most organized groups have at least 1 dk, 1 cro, and 1 sorc dps. So you could play one of those classes instead of arcanist.

You mean zenkosh jail, ec jail and MK jail.

Not necessarily. Corpseburster necro does really well right now and dk is top for specific fights too.

Heck the sweatiest of sweaty comps for cloudrest actually run a lot of stamblades and plars. It's kinda neat.

If you have a very good group you can pretty much turn Cloudrest into a single target situation. But when was the last time we got a fight where st damage was really that important? With Falgraven maybe?
Arcanist is the easiest cleave possible and overall it wins the dps competition for vast majority of players and situations. Which might indeed be good to bring new people in, but it's way to powerful to incentivize new blood to progress from new to something more advanced.

Boss 1 in Lucent is also single target. It's where I get to top parse on my dk before going to jail for the rest of the trial.

Rockgrove and Cloudrest are the trials the endgame community actually runs on repeat. Rockgrove only needs 2 arcanists (for the 2 Bahsei meteors they see in execute). Cloudrest needs 3 (for creepers/orbs).

Sakiri

sarahthes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Trying to break into the endgame has broken me so...

What server do you play on?

PC NA.

sarahthes

Sakiri wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Trying to break into the endgame has broken me so...

What server do you play on?

PC NA.

I would suggest making your way to the bigger raiding discords, if you haven't already. Aedra (their discord invite is just the server name) and then For the Clear, and any of their partner discords. Start off by just signing up for farm runs and trainers. Look at logs for runs you do, if you bottom parse or don't heal as well as the other healer or die more than the other tank (idk which role you main), ask why and for advice. People are always willing to help but you need to start the conversation.

Breaking into endgame is a very active process.

boi_anachronism_

Take a page out of vas and add a rare drop like the poly

alpha_synuclein

sarahthes wrote: »

Boss 1 in Lucent is also single target. It's where I get to top parse on my dk before going to jail for the rest of the trial.

It can be if you're fast enough. But if the fight is long you need to get the adds at some point.

sarahthes wrote: »

Rockgrove and Cloudrest are the trials the endgame community actually runs on repeat. Rockgrove only needs 2 arcanists (for the 2 Bahsei meteors they see in execute). Cloudrest needs 3 (for creepers/orbs).

Well, technically neither need any, all you need for meteors and orbs/creepers is a ranged build of any class.

I wasn't getting at where arcanist is essential, but where it is being chosen.
And in it's current state it seems the best choice in most situations. Especially in case of entry level and early endgame. Which indeed brings the new blood in, but gives very little motivation to move on.

maxxiestackhouse

sarahthes wrote: »

maxxiestackhouse wrote: »

I personally won’t do trials new or existing if I can avoid it simply for the fact it’s usually me and 9 Arcanist dps…….. so until the meta shifts I’ll avoid perma beam and perma crux’s and so much green I feel like I’m face planted in lush grass.

Most organized groups have at least 1 dk, 1 cro, and 1 sorc dps. So you could play one of those classes instead of arcanist.

Yee I know. I main a poor Stamplar and have since I started 5 years ago. I have most classes fully kitted out for trials I just like to main Templar most of the time, I enjoy the class.

Even if I Tank (I have 4 of those) I’ll still be surrounded by green beams 😂

Oh well aha

Sakiri

sarahthes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Trying to break into the endgame has broken me so...

What server do you play on?

PC NA.

I would suggest making your way to the bigger raiding discords, if you haven't already. Aedra (their discord invite is just the server name) and then For the Clear, and any of their partner discords. Start off by just signing up for farm runs and trainers. Look at logs for runs you do, if you bottom parse or don't heal as well as the other healer or die more than the other tank (idk which role you main), ask why and for advice. People are always willing to help but you need to start the conversation.

Breaking into endgame is a very active process.

Was in Aedra for a while. Most of their runs were either super sweaty stuff or filled instantly. I did join ftc but I'm booked up for a few days.