Companion's quest is "meaningless" mostly.

AvalonRanger · December 1

Companion's quest is "meaningless" mostly.

Or just nonsense.

Why every companion's mind set is so much stubborn?
"Stubborn" is one of personality as character. So it's OK.

But, they never change even after the finished companion's quest.

We can't change them. Just become "good friend" or hating each other.

There're no story "branch" in there. So, every player's experience with companions
are "same". We can't have my own decision with companions as Role Playing Game.

So, first impression is everything. Just like "OH! Ember is cute cat, I love her.", or
"This guy dislike coffee ...This guy hate magic ...This guy hate vampire ...and so stubborn .."
I can't build my original relationship with companions even after the finished quest, they never changed.

Fallout 4 is different. For example "Cait".

We can solve her drug addiction, and change her mind through the companion's quest.
After finished quest, she become drug hater. At least, she got very different mind-set before "we met".

I want to decide their fate by myself, leaving companion's mind just like the first contact, or change them by quest "flag".
(Some personality should be same as character difference, but need option at some point. )

Hapexamendios · December 1

Most are standard fair. I did really like Zarthis and Sharp's.

Erickson9610 · December 2

If Companions should be allowed to stop disliking things and start liking them, then they should also be allowed to stop liking things and start disliking them.

Cooperharley · December 2

Companions as a whole are largely meaningless until ZOS actually updates the system as a whole.

(No updates to companion system since their launch with Blackwood btw)

Erickson9610 · December 2

Cooperharley wrote: »

Companions as a whole are largely meaningless until ZOS actually updates the system as a whole.

(No updates to companion system since their launch with Blackwood btw)

We've had combat updates since Blackwood. For instance, Isobel's "Penetrating Strikes" ability was changed to match the player's "Puncturing Strikes" ability's animation, where it hits 3 times instead of 4.

Regardless, I'd consider new abilities made for the Companions system to be "updates" to the system overall. Eventually we'll get balance changes for the older Companions.

Cooperharley · December 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Companions as a whole are largely meaningless until ZOS actually updates the system as a whole.

(No updates to companion system since their launch with Blackwood btw)

We've had combat updates since Blackwood. For instance, Isobel's "Penetrating Strikes" ability was changed to match the player's "Puncturing Strikes" ability's animation, where it hits 3 times instead of 4.

Regardless, I'd consider new abilities made for the Companions system to be "updates" to the system overall. Eventually we'll get balance changes for the older Companions.

That’s a big ole change. Would hardly consider that an update, that doesn’t change the experience for the player literally at all.

Brand new abilities sure, but when have we seen that?

What about
- Use of helmets on companions
- Companion inventory for their own gear
- More quest lines and achievements for each companion
- Positioning capability or ability to interact with doors, levers, etc
- Companion gear upgrade system or research

That’s stuff that would change the game companion-wise

Erickson9610 · December 2

Cooperharley wrote: »

Brand new abilities sure, but when have we seen that?

Every year, actually — Bastian and Mirri started us off with Dragonknight and Nightblade abilities, as well as Weapon, Guild, and Armor abilities. Then Isobel and Ember introduced Templar and Sorcerer abilities. Azandar and Sharp gave us Arcanist and Warden abilities. Then finally Zerith-var and Tanlorin gave us Necromancer, Soul Magic, and more Dragonknight abilities.

No new abilities for existing Companions, but new abilities are made every year to be given to that year's batch of new Companions.

Cooperharley · December 2

What….

Yes they’re companion specific skills. They haven’t updated anything with them since their release.

Erickson9610 · December 2

Cooperharley wrote: »

What….

Yes they’re companion specific skills. They haven’t updated anything with them since their release.

I've already mentioned Isobel's Penetrating Strikes being updated after launch, but I also forgot to mention the Companion Dual Wield skill "Swift Assault" having its animation changed to match the new animation of the player's "Flurry" Dual Wield skill.

AvalonRanger · December 2

I gave up to improve combat aspect of companion's AI quality.

But !

As a Role Playing Game, I have huge complaining against story aspect of
current quest system. Even NPC can't change their mind, I hope they'll have something
different side standing point through my companion's quest.

So, please add multiple "game flag" for it.

AvalonRanger · December 2

Zerith is good stubborn monk. I like him.
But, he is also "monopoly mind set and arrogance" ancient stupid cat.

And, maybe I can't change his bad attitude after the finishing my companion's quest.
What a boring RPG!

Four_Fingers · December 2

Now imagine what the companions think about you.

Nestor · December 2

My only complaint about the Companions is their Disliking certain things. Bug Harvesting and Nuances of Property Ownership should be none of their business.

Sheridan · December 2

At least implement companion romances...

AvalonRanger · December 2

Nestor wrote: »

My only complaint about the Companions is their Disliking certain things. Bug Harvesting and Nuances of Property Ownership should be none of their business.

100% agree. I thought same thing.

AvalonRanger · December 2

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Now imagine what the companions think about you.

They might think like this. "Why every players are so much stronger than us ?"

ereboz · December 2

I have done Izzy's quest 4 times now, I am ready for the quest to merge with dark brotherhood so I can assassinate Aurelia without Izzy knowing. I absolutely hate that all of her quest line is just chasing around her stupid friend.

Sheridan · December 2

ereboz wrote: »

I have done Izzy's quest 4 times now, I am ready for the quest to merge with dark brotherhood so I can assassinate Aurelia without Izzy knowing. I absolutely hate that all of her quest line is just chasing around her stupid friend.

To be honest, other companions just deal with their private affairs as well. After all, these are called "personal quests" for a reason. The only exception is the latest bunch of companions, which all of a sudden can be compared with a guild quest line / zone quest line in scale, dealing with a threat to an entire provinces.

Varana · December 2

Why should they be "changed"? Is this like one of those relationships where one partner is certain they can "fix" the other one and then they all continue to suffer and be miserable and destroy their lives while insisting that deep down, that's what they really want?

NPC party members in RPG have tended towards a certain formula for some time now: They come with their own personal problem, and the player (character) serves as their personal therapist, "solving" the NPC with dialogue choices and the occasional combat encounter, moulding them into the desirable traits that are advantageous to the intended build or the player's kinks preferences, if necessary by following a guide on the internet. (Bonus points for calling that "romance".)

ESO's companion quests are much too short for any meaningful personality change. It makes for even less believable characters than the somewhat cliché therapist approach.

Heren · December 2

ESO is not bg3, get over it.

Not saying it would be bad for players to have a little more impact on the stories, but I higly doubt we will get there - at last, we have some choices.

However, I strongly disagree with your statement : companion's quest are not meaningless. The fact that you don't really have an impact, or at least the impact of your choice on them doesn't mean their quests are meaningless. It's just an, say, old fashioned story, that still invite you to understand a character, it's background, motivations, goals, etc.

tsaescishoeshiner · December 2

Zerith-var's full questline had a lot of character growth, making it one of the top ESO quests for me. I actually feel like we earned a feeling of closeness with the character, since it was so personal to him, and the details are dished out after building up to them and earning them.

Tanlorin's could have used way more character growth, but they still show a major piece of character growth at the end. I wish they didn't start calling us "friend friend friend" from the start, but they seem to have a new perspective at the end.

I'd like it if we got new quests with the Companions that showed how they've changed from their original storyline. However, for that they'd have to require that their original questline be complete first, in addition to requiring the original DLC that the Companions come from for players to play the original story. So I think we won't get that due to how new DLC always has mainly standalone stories that don't require prior purchases. It would be cool, because character-focused stories are much more rewarding and interesting than saving the world (although both is fine).

I actively don't want branching story quests for the Companions. To do it well would be way too much work to write and develop totally different outcomes, and going halfway would feel just shallow. I'd rather have a more fleshed out linear story, and I agree--one that changes them to some point. I think they've gotten much better at that with each round of Companions, and I look forward to them more than zone quests. (They don't compare to exploring a whole zone, though, but they're way better than the sidequests and often the main quests for me).

spartaxoxo · December 2

Companions have likes and dislikes to deepen their characterization. If you could just erase everything you dislike like they would be nothing more generic, no personality shells that always agreed with the player. So, I disagree about this in terms of rapport.

As for choices in the storyline, it is an MMO. They can only do so much. And I'd much rather tell them deep stories like Zerith-Var's than very shallow ones just for the illusion of choice.

AvalonRanger · December 2

Varana wrote: »

Why should they be "changed"? Is this like one of those relationships where one partner is certain they can "fix" the other one and then they all continue to suffer and be miserable and destroy their lives while insisting that deep down, that's what they really want?

NPC party members in RPG have tended towards a certain formula for some time now: They come with their own personal problem, and the player (character) serves as their personal therapist, "solving" the NPC with dialogue choices and the occasional combat encounter, moulding them into the desirable traits that are advantageous to the intended build or the player's kinks preferences, if necessary by following a guide on the internet. (Bonus points for calling that "romance".)

ESO's companion quests are much too short for any meaningful personality change. It makes for even less believable characters than the somewhat cliché therapist approach.

Why should they be "changed"?　

"Being changed" was bit unprecise, I knew it.
But, I wanted to say, "let them grow before we met through the co-activity."
Or, I need something "positive difference" before we met as proof of our activity.

Nick Valentine quest Fallout 4 was very good example for this.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Nick_Valentine

There're no those RPG experience in the ESO companion's quest.

Isobel is bad example for ESO companion's quest. After finishing
her quest line, she is still fantasy brain stupid breton "Don Quijote" girl.

I'm tired of those companion.

MasterLanz · December 6

Cooperharley wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Companions as a whole are largely meaningless until ZOS actually updates the system as a whole.

(No updates to companion system since their launch with Blackwood btw)

We've had combat updates since Blackwood. For instance, Isobel's "Penetrating Strikes" ability was changed to match the player's "Puncturing Strikes" ability's animation, where it hits 3 times instead of 4.

Regardless, I'd consider new abilities made for the Companions system to be "updates" to the system overall. Eventually we'll get balance changes for the older Companions.

That’s a big ole change. Would hardly consider that an update, that doesn’t change the experience for the player literally at all.

Brand new abilities sure, but when have we seen that?

What about
- Use of helmets on companions
- Companion inventory for their own gear
- More quest lines and achievements for each companion
- Positioning capability or ability to interact with doors, levers, etc
- Companion gear upgrade system or research

That’s stuff that would change the game companion-wise

Would love if they could have 2 skill bars like the player can, so we can swap them between two 'builds' as needed.

wolfie1.0. · December 6

To be fair, companions will take time and effort to get that far deep.

Keep in mind that fallout 4 borrowed from games like Mass Effect in that companions play a large role in the overall story and your interactions.

In BG3 companions essentially the main story line.

ESO was not designed with companions at all they were added after the fact. Any companionship that was supposed to take place was intended to be with other players.

With that in mind, it's reasonable to not expect in game companions to be all that flexible or deep. Not for quite some time.

As it is we have seen a lot changes to them as new ones roll out.

Taril · December 6

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

ESO was not designed with companions at all they were added after the fact. Any companionship that was supposed to take place was intended to be with other players.

With that in mind, it's reasonable to not expect in game companions to be all that flexible or deep. Not for quite some time.

There's nothing inherently restrictive about ESO in relation to companions.

Like, you can have companions that are as deep and flexible as any single player game (Which, admittedly, is not that deep especially with the industry still just working with the shallow system popularized by DA:O/ME1).

The main thing is... Are any quests in ESO actually deep? Most quests are pretty linear and low impact with maybe an occasional "You can do this OR that" and overall no real consequence to things.

As such, the companion quests are on par with all other quest designs for the game. Which, to be fair, is about the same as for the rest of TES series.

It's a thing with TES where they may have decent characters and some individually fun and interesting quests (Especially some of the single player titles TG/DB quests that promote atypical methods). But they usually aren't particularly complex or deep in what they do.

redlink1979 · December 6

Sharp's story was the one I enjoyed the most. And he's the coolest so far imho.

wolfie1.0. · December 6

Taril wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

ESO was not designed with companions at all they were added after the fact. Any companionship that was supposed to take place was intended to be with other players.

With that in mind, it's reasonable to not expect in game companions to be all that flexible or deep. Not for quite some time.

There's nothing inherently restrictive about ESO in relation to companions.

Like, you can have companions that are as deep and flexible as any single player game (Which, admittedly, is not that deep especially with the industry still just working with the shallow system popularized by DA:O/ME1).

The main thing is... Are any quests in ESO actually deep? Most quests are pretty linear and low impact with maybe an occasional "You can do this OR that" and overall no real consequence to things.

As such, the companion quests are on par with all other quest designs for the game. Which, to be fair, is about the same as for the rest of TES series.

It's a thing with TES where they may have decent characters and some individually fun and interesting quests (Especially some of the single player titles TG/DB quests that promote atypical methods). But they usually aren't particularly complex or deep in what they do.

I get that, but my point is that companions are relatively new mechanism in ESO and mostly set up as a combat aid and less of a real relationship interaction. Sure elements are there but it's not like a drama simulator. Your not going to have Uber complex decision trees. Your companion won't die or hate you so much they become a boss fight and leave you forever. It's basic really.

And as far as actual consequences, eso pretty much is set to consequences don't matter. There are a few quests that change the gameplay. Like completely bleakrock main quest locks the main hub, and mages guild end choice...

But those are minor impacts and over time those impacts are lessened (2 skill points is isn't as critical now vs 2015)

AvalonRanger · December 7

By the way, I like Ember and Sharp as character personality.
Staying with them makes me calm and cheerful.

But, they are already "nice" when I met them. So there're no difference
between first impression and finishing quest.

I don't need new character anymore, but I want additional quest for the
pre released character.