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Reinforcing class identity with damage types

The_Isatope8
The_Isatope8
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Class identity is an interesting topic to discuss since ESO has some great examples and some less than stellar ones as well. Dragon Knight is a great example of good class identity with its aesthetics and skills, while classes like Templar and Necromancer are somewhat confused classes that are unsure of what they are meant to be. If each class were to have its own unique set of featured damage types, I believe that the classes would feel more unique and have some of their awkwardness alleviated.

Each class should have it's own set of 2 damage types that feature heavily in their skills. Different damage types can still be seen in their kit of course, but the overwhelming majority should be one of 2 types, 1 magical type and 1 physical type. Having the classes focus heavily on their specific damage types helps create more separation between them and helps with the feeling of uniqueness between the classes.

As it stands the current predominant damage types in each class are as follows:
  • Dragon Knight: Fire/ Poison
  • Sorcerer: Shock/ Physical/ Magic
  • Nightblade: Magic/ Physical/ Disease
  • Templar: Magic/ Physical
  • Warden Frost/ Bleed
  • Necromancer: All
  • Arcanist: Magic/ Physical

A problem that can be seen easily is the lack of uniqueness in some classes. Arcanist, Templar and Nightblade mostly have magical and physical damage in their kits, while Dragon Knight and Warden have unique featured damage types in their kits which makes them stand out.

In the interest of giving each class their own featured damage types, a new damage type will need to be created for Templar since they share Magic and Physical damage with Arcanist and Nightblade. my idea for the new damage type is explained below:

Radiant damage type
  • Designated as a Magic damage type for resistances.
  • Color in tooltips is golden yellow.
  • New associated status effect: Smite.
    • Smite status effect:
      Instant damage, increases damage done with light and heavy attacks by 10% for 4 seconds.
Templar is heavily influenced by the fantasy 'Paladin' and 'Cleric' tropes, so why not lean into it more to help their identity crisis a little. With the advent of a new damage type there also needs to be a way for all classes to have access to it, so Dawnbreaker and its morphs would deal Radiant damage. Additionally, a new essence rune would be needed so that weapons can be enchanted to deal Radiant damage. As such I would like to introduce the 'Hakkoma' (Radiance) rune for this purpose.

In the interest of making classes more adherent to their themes/ aesthetics with damage types, several skills will need to be changed and renamed to reflect this. Some classes will have more skills that need to be changed than others, but they should remain mostly the same mechanically while providing a greater sense of individuality with their skills. I will list the changes under the classes where they are needed.

If the classes were to be changed to all feature different damage types predominantly, below are my ideas on the damage types the classes should be associated with:
  • Dragon Knight: Fire/ Poison
    Great class identity with damage types, no changes.
  • Sorcerer: Shock/ Physical
    Skill changes
    Sorcerer is very close to being perfect with their damage types, but only 1 skill needs to change to make their kit feature mostly shock and Physical damage.
    • Suppression Field (Dark Magic Ultimate)
      Deals Shock damage, was Magic damage. The skill icon literally has lightning in it.
  • Nightblade: Magic/ Bleed
    Skill changes
    As it currently stands, the 2 types of non-magical damage Nightblades use in their kit are physical and disease damage. Their skill descriptions mention blood a few times and they literally have a passive called 'Hemorrhage', so having Bleed damage feature in their kit seems like a logical choice.
    Skills changed to bleed damage
    • Power Extraction (Siphoning)
    • Incapacitating Strike (Assassination Ultimate)
    • Surprise Attack (Assassination)
    • Ambush (Assassination)
    • Killer's Blade (Assassination)
    • Relentless Focus (Assassination)
  • Templar: Radiant/ Physical
    Skill changes
    Damage types like Radiant damage have existed in previous TES games (Sun damage in Skyrim), so it seems fitting to bring it back and give Templar the easiest access to it. Dealing Radiant damage instead of Magic damage will also differentiate Templar more from other magic users with their unique aesthetic and themes.
    Skills changed to Radiant Damage
    • Radial Sweep + Crescent Sweep (Aedric Spear Ultimate)
    • Puncturing Strikes + Puncturing Sweeps (Aedric Spear)
    • Piercing Javelin + Aurora Javelin (Aedric Spear)
    • Focused Charge + Morphs (Aedric Spear)
    • Spear Shards + Morphs (Aedric Spear)
    • Sun Shield and Morphs (Aedric Spear)
    • Burning Light (Aedric Spear Passive)
    • Nova + Morphs (Dawn's Wrath)
    • Solar Flare (Dawn's Wrath)
    • Backlash + Purifying Light (Dawn's Wrath)
    • Unstable Core (Dawn's Wrath)
    • Radiant Destruction (Dawn's Wrath)
    • Ritual of Retribution (Restoring Light)
  • Warden: Frost/ Bleed
    Skill changes
    Warden already features bleed and frost damage in abundance, but there are some skills that need to be changed to bring their kit more in line with their predominant damage types.
    Skills changed to Bleed damage
    • Feral Guardian + Eternal Guardian (Animal Companions ultimate)
    • Slashing Assault (Subterranean Assault renamed, Animal Companions)
    Skills changed to Frost damage
    • Subterranean Assault ('Scorch' renamed to fit damage type) + Deep Fissure (Animal Companions)
  • Necromancer: Frost/ Disease
    Skill changes
    Necromancer having access to all normal damage types in their kit is certainly unique, but also makes them feel disjointed due to the lack of obvious direction. I believe that Frost and Disease damage would fit the theme and aesthetic of necro the best due to their association with death and decay.
    Skills changed to Frost damage
    • Ravenous Goliath (Bone Tyrant ultimate)
    • Death Scythe + Hungry Scythe (Bone Tyrant)
    • Agony Totem synergy (Bone Tyrant)
    • Sepulchral Visage + Ricochet Skull('Flame Skull' renamed to fit new damage type, Grave Lord)
    • Skeletal mage + Skeletal Arcanist (Grave Lord)
    • Frigid Siphon + Mystic Siphon ('Shocking Siphon' renamed to fit new damage type, Grave Lord)
    Skills changed to disease damage
    • Ruinous Scythe (Bone Tyrant)
    • Cadaverous Visage ('Venom Skull' renamed to fit new damage type, Grave Lord)
    • Skeletal Archer (Grave Lord)
  • Arcanist: Magic/ Physical
    Skill changes
    Skills changed to Magic damage
    • Tentacular Dread (Herald of the Tome)
    • Imperfect Ring + Morphs (Herald of the Tome)
      • DOT deals Magic damage normally, but secondary explosion and synergy dealt frost damage.
Edited by The_Isatope8 on 30 December 2024 08:23
Number 1 Templar apologist
  • AnduinTryggva
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    I really like this.

    The only modification I would suggest is to have the Templar cause daedric damage. That is ok as they get their force from a (D)Aedra (Azura)...
    Similarly, the arcanist could also get daedric damage instead of physical.
    Edited by AnduinTryggva on 27 November 2024 14:08
  • BasP
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    It would be cool if Radiant damage would be added to the game! I also like the rest of your suggestions, though I'd prefer it if the Eternal Guardian would be turned into a polar bear that dealt Frost Damage instead (and its attacks could have a chance to proc Minor Brittle without having to use a Frost Staff or something). It could be renamed to "Glacial Guardian".

    Speaking of new damage types, the other day I was thinking that it could be cool if Necrotic damage would be added to the game. I hadn't thought of a corresponding status effect yet, but the name seemed fitting for the Necromancer's magical abilities (making Frost Damage just something Wardens specialize in).
    Edited by BasP on 27 November 2024 20:51
  • Faulgor
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    May I ask, considering you mention Sun damage yourself - why not use that name instead of Radiant?
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    May I ask, considering you mention Sun damage yourself - why not use that name instead of Radiant?

    Would more make sense to call it light magic since we already have shadow and dark magic
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Turtle_Bot
    Turtle_Bot
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    FYI: There are quite a few more sorc abilities that would need adjusting on top of just suppression field to better fit the dual typing of the class "shock/physical":

    Frags (mag morph) - is magical damage
    Curse (both morphs) - are magical damage
    Shattering Spines - is magical damage
    Rune cage - is magical damage
    Daedric Tomb - is magical damage

    Frags and curse have become synonymous with sorcs (especially those that don't run pets), so at the bare minimum those 2 abilities should also be shock damage to better fit the "shock/physical" types that sorc would focus on.

    Apart from this, I like OP's idea for focusing the classes more on their themed damage types instead of just giving them generic magic + physical types for majority of their abilities.
    Outside of status effects, the differences between damage types are extremely minimal and mostly cosmetic, but it would be nice for the remaining small differences such as class passives, sets, etc. that do boost specific damage types (such as energized passive on sorc that boosts shock/physical damage) would actually boost the majority of their class abilities (especially the main ones) instead of just some of them.
  • TankHealz2015
    TankHealz2015
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    Love it!!!
  • The_Isatope8
    The_Isatope8
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    May I ask, considering you mention Sun damage yourself - why not use that name instead of Radiant?

    @Faulgor, Calling it 'Radiant damage' instead of 'sun damage' leaves it's magical origins ambiguous. All classes need to have access to all of the damage types in some way, thus Dawnbreaker and the Hakomma rune allow them to access it. Dawnbreaker states that it is using the power of Meridia, while Templars magic is associated with Stendarr. Both of these entities are heavily associated with light despite being very different, but neither have ties to the sun which is associated with Magnus. Having Radiant damage named as such allows the game mechanics to remain faithful to the lore while still leaving some room for interpretation from the player as to its origin.

    Radiant damage also sounds better than Light magic in my opinion.
    Edited by The_Isatope8 on 30 December 2024 17:30
    Number 1 Templar apologist
  • MincMincMinc
    MincMincMinc
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    Part of the class/build identity issue is that early on in class versions of skills used to be stronger. To top it off, dots and hots didn't used to stack which made unique class skills more important. Now everything is standardized and basically functions the same with a different animation skin.

    Proc sets grant more identity than most class skills.
  • o_Primate_o
    o_Primate_o
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    BasP wrote: »

    Speaking of new damage types, the other day I was thinking that it could be cool if Necrotic damage would be added to the game. I hadn't thought of a corresponding status effect yet, but the name seemed fitting for the Necromancer's magical abilities (making Frost Damage just something Wardens specialize in).

    Necrotic and disease are very similar and disease has its own status effect but I guess you could add necrosis to phys damage but it feels better as a status effect They could add a new magic type damage for cro, something like Curse or something that attacks one's soul. Status effect Dread.
    Edited by o_Primate_o on 30 December 2024 15:25
    Xbox NA as o Primate o
  • o_Primate_o
    o_Primate_o
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    But overall I like the topic of discussion. Having one martial and one magic type per class would (maybe) encourage more diverse raid groups rather than 6 arcs + zenkosh + MK sorc
    Xbox NA as o Primate o
  • BasP
    BasP
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    BasP wrote: »
    Speaking of new damage types, the other day I was thinking that it could be cool if Necrotic damage would be added to the game. I hadn't thought of a corresponding status effect yet, but the name seemed fitting for the Necromancer's magical abilities (making Frost Damage just something Wardens specialize in).

    Necrotic and disease are very similar and disease has its own status effect but I guess you could add necrosis to phys damage but it feels better as a status effect They could add a new magic type damage for cro, something like Curse or something that attacks one's soul. Status effect Dread.

    Hm, you've got a point there.

    Still, ZOS doesn't seem to connect the word necrotic to diseases. The 'Necrotic Strikes' vision in the Infinite Archive buffs Magic Damage for example, while the 'Necrotic Fortification' vision protects you from Magic Damage. Both are required for the Undead Avatar Transformation, whose Call of the Dead skill is pretty Necromancer-ish. Therefore a new magical damage type named Necrotic, which Necromancers would specialize in, seemed fitting to me.

    But Curse and Dread sound cool too, and I'd definitely be fine with those as well!
  • kaushad
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    I don't really like how stamina morphs turn Ardent Flame skills to poison. Fire is a really big part of the Dragonknight identity, but it largely disappears from stamina builds. I also rather like the necromancers' blue fire, which seems to feature elsewhere in the game. I'm even tempted to use the ricochet skull morph.
  • LootAllTheStuff
    LootAllTheStuff
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    Frost Warden should also drain stamina.
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    The reason our classes have very little class identity is most of the skills we use are from shared or common skill lines so our builds play similarly across most classes. It matters little what the damage type is when it is hardly used.

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