Discussion : Joining Encounter in Progress is destroying dungeon experience

M0ntie

A couple of changes would help here.

1) To help with quest completion, if a player hasn't completed the dungeon quest, and they get pulled forward into a boss, the quest should auto complete up to the boss they got pulled into. This would include picking up the quest. ZoS also needs to cut down some of the unnecessary delays in some of the older quests that are just annoying for everyone to have to wait through.
2) To allow looting, at the end of the dungeon, do not give anyone the option to disband group. Individuals can leave the group but there is no reason to allow anyone to disband. Allow any player who stays in the dungeon up to 10 minutes to complete looting what they want in the dungeon.

cryptiecopb14_ESO

ZOS just needs to add in a mechanic that requires all team members to be physically present prior to every boss fight in every dungeon ... Speed runner issues solved.

AzuraFan

M0ntie wrote: »

ZoS also needs to cut down some of the unnecessary delays in some of the older quests that are just annoying for everyone to have to wait through.

Also the newer dungeons, when it comes to turning the quest in. Sometimes the NPCs talk for a while after the final boss is down, and you can't turn in the quest until they stop. That can take a couple of minutes, and players leave in the meantime.

cryptiecopb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS just needs to add in a mechanic that requires all team members to be physically present prior to every boss fight in every dungeon ... Speed runner issues solved.

Speed running might be resolved, but that would create a new problem: not being able to progress through the dungeon because one player is consistently lagging behind. If the group wasn't speed running, but every time we hit a boss we had to wait a while for someone who's doing their own thing, I'd leave the group.

Sakiri

AzuraFan wrote: »

M0ntie wrote: »

ZoS also needs to cut down some of the unnecessary delays in some of the older quests that are just annoying for everyone to have to wait through.

Also the newer dungeons, when it comes to turning the quest in. Sometimes the NPCs talk for a while after the final boss is down, and you can't turn in the quest until they stop. That can take a couple of minutes, and players leave in the meantime.

cryptiecopb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS just needs to add in a mechanic that requires all team members to be physically present prior to every boss fight in every dungeon ... Speed runner issues solved.

Speed running might be resolved, but that would create a new problem: not being able to progress through the dungeon because one player is consistently lagging behind. If the group wasn't speed running, but every time we hit a boss we had to wait a while for someone who's doing their own thing, I'd leave the group.

I'd kick the person doing their thing.

If the rest of us are there, we're not the problem.

CalamityCat

I find it frustrating that it just takes one of your group to pull everyone. So a group of three doing the quest can be disrupted by just one speed runner. That should not be possible IMHO. You're lucky to get four people without one who rushes ahead, given that there is no penalty for them skipping content. They speed run, knowing they'll pull everyone into boss fights. Force the pace and still get the keys or whatever they were after.

I'd suggest that it should require more than 50% of the group in the boss fight before other players are pulled. So players are encouraged to co-operate and find a pace that suits the group instead of the most impatient player.

AzuraFan

CalamityCat wrote: »

I find it frustrating that it just takes one of your group to pull everyone. So a group of three doing the quest can be disrupted by just one speed runner. ...
I'd suggest that it should require more than 50% of the group in the boss fight before other players are pulled. So players are encouraged to co-operate and find a pace that suits the group instead of the most impatient player.

It does seem like the way it works now, it's biased towards speed runners. I like the idea of at least two players having to be at the boss before the mechanic kicks in.

Sakiri

cryptiecopb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS just needs to add in a mechanic that requires all team members to be physically present prior to every boss fight in every dungeon ... Speed runner issues solved.

That's exactly how this works.

SteveCampsOut

AzuraFan wrote: »

Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

I'd be all for the Join Encounter in Progress if it were Bi-Directional! IE: If Someone is on the quest and stuck at the quest dialogue of some long winded NPC, Rubberband everybody back to that person instead of to the group boss. It's only fair because Quests are ALSO encounters in Progress.

ESO_player123

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

I'd be all for the Join Encounter in Progress if it were Bi-Directional! IE: If Someone is on the quest and stuck at the quest dialogue of some long winded NPC, Rubberband everybody back to that person instead of to the group boss. It's only fair because Quests are ALSO encounters in Progress.

So that everyone will be forced to stand and wait while one person reads every line of the dialog or just trolls with the dialog open? This will lead to situations when the slowest person will be kicked out of the dungeon. We do not want that to happen to new players.

SteveCampsOut

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

I'd be all for the Join Encounter in Progress if it were Bi-Directional! IE: If Someone is on the quest and stuck at the quest dialogue of some long winded NPC, Rubberband everybody back to that person instead of to the group boss. It's only fair because Quests are ALSO encounters in Progress.

So that everyone will be forced to stand and wait while one person reads every line of the dialog or just trolls with the dialog open? This will lead to situations when the slowest person will be kicked out of the dungeon. We do not want that to happen to new players.

It's not any less fair than being forced to join a boss fight.

ESO_player123

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

I'd be all for the Join Encounter in Progress if it were Bi-Directional! IE: If Someone is on the quest and stuck at the quest dialogue of some long winded NPC, Rubberband everybody back to that person instead of to the group boss. It's only fair because Quests are ALSO encounters in Progress.

So that everyone will be forced to stand and wait while one person reads every line of the dialog or just trolls with the dialog open? This will lead to situations when the slowest person will be kicked out of the dungeon. We do not want that to happen to new players.

It's not any less fair than being forced to join a boss fight.

It's not about fairness. It's about the result that we will most likely get if your suggestion were to be implemented. IMO at the current stage of the game most players are interested in finishing the dungeon as quickly as possible. Many would wait if another player announces that they are on a quest. However, if everyone are forced to wait for the slowest player all the time, I bet the slow one will get the kick since the other 3 will likely not need them to complete the dungeon. That will happen more often than kicks for tor the speedrunners since many players are content with just quickly following/joining the encounter as quickly as possible.

Sakiri

Go with the majority. If you're unhappy with their pace, leave

AzuraFan

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Alternatively, maybe the speedrunner should be rubberbanded back to the group if they get to the boss and nobody else is close by, rather than moving the group up to the speedrunner.

I'd be all for the Join Encounter in Progress if it were Bi-Directional! IE: If Someone is on the quest and stuck at the quest dialogue of some long winded NPC, Rubberband everybody back to that person instead of to the group boss. It's only fair because Quests are ALSO encounters in Progress.

That wouldn't work. Like I said upthread, if the group was running at a reasonable pace, but kept having to wait for a straggler, or get rubberbanded back to them, I'd leave.

Someone else suggested kicking the straggler. That never occurred to me, because I've been running normal dungeons daily for a few months now, and not once have I experienced a vote to kick someone. I guess it's more common when running vet dungeons.

My suggestion about rubberbanding the speedrunner would only happen if there's one person running ahead. In the case of one person doing a quest, no rubberbanding would happen because three people in the group would be ahead.

As much as I love story quests, pugs are not the right way to do them. Guildies or the group finder are the way to go (or solo the ones you can, which I know for some players will be few or none). This conflict, between those wanting to do the quest and those wanting to just get to the end as quickly as possible, is a result of a poor design decision by ZOS. They shouldn't have put story quests into dungeons.

Destai

I'm starting to change my opinion on this.

Been running many dungeons since the event started and many times, someone just runs ahead. I don't mind sometimes, especially if the mobs won't follow into the boss encounter, but other times, it just gets messy. It'd be nice if mobs de-aggroed entirely when this mechanic is triggered.

cryptiecopb14_ESO

Sakiri wrote: »

cryptiecopb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS just needs to add in a mechanic that requires all team members to be physically present prior to every boss fight in every dungeon ... Speed runner issues solved.

That's exactly how this works.

I should have just phrased it as "remove the ability of any dungeon player to pull the group to any boss" ... I guess that would have been a clearer thing for me to say

ESO_player123

cryptiecopb14_ESO wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

cryptiecopb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS just needs to add in a mechanic that requires all team members to be physically present prior to every boss fight in every dungeon ... Speed runner issues solved.

That's exactly how this works.

I should have just phrased it as "remove the ability of any dungeon player to pull the group to any boss" ... I guess that would have been a clearer thing for me to say

If the ability is removed then we are back to square one where a player can be locked out of boss fight if they arrived too late (closed doors/erected barriers around the boss area).

Elvenheart

In my opinion, I think having this feature is better than not having it, but I would support it being a yes/no question that gives the player the option of joining the encounter. I applaud the people in this thread that have said they are willing to help players on quests by slowing down and letting them do the quest, I do that too when I am in that position. But I also agree that one cannot always count on players being that helpful and friendly, and when it’s a random group you just have to go with the flow or the majority.

The two things I would like to see added to the game are a story mode for dungeons so players can experience the story and the quest the first time by themselves if they want to with a smaller reward, such as green items instead of blue and with story mode not working for pledges, and for the dungeon quests to be turned into daily quests with diminished rewards after the first time you do them. We have to run those dungeons over and over to fill our sticker books, it would be nice to have the option to experience the actual dungeon quest again (the key word is OPTION). And it would be nice to be able to do the quest when you are helping someone else for the first time so you can follow along better and be on the same step.

ghastley

It would help if there were some way to pre-announce your story/speedrun bias the way you can designate you are a tank, healer or DD. That might help separate one group of players from the other. But there would probably be an equivalent of the "fake tank" that I have overlooked.

laniakea_0

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

Sakiri

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

laniakea_0

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

Desiato

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

That would be actually painful to me. Imagine everyone having to walk to the streets of a city at the speed of the slowest walker... On single lane roads, isn't it fun having to drive at the speed of the slowest driver? Well, to the slowest driver I imagine it is....

This thread reminds me of the classic type A/B dynamic.

What I love about eso is its speed. I love to do things quickly. I "speed run" by killing everything as quickly as possible. That's just playing the game.

The irony here is that ZOS made content so easy that anyone could complete it with any build, so of course experienced players using strong builds are going to completely melt it.

AzuraFan

laniakea_0 wrote: »

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

If the choice is between going with the fastest group member or the slowest group member, I'd choose the fastest. As much as I don't like it when a group has a speed runner, I'd like it even less if a 10 minute dungeon run is turned into 30+ minutes because someone wants to listen to every word of dialogue, and/or read every lorebook on the spot, and/or open every container.

If everyone in the group agrees to it up front, fine (for me it would depend on if I had the time). But if you show up in a pug and just expect everyone to move at your slow pace without so much as an ask, and then you get upset when the rest of the group proceeds through the dungeon at a reasonable pace (not speed running), you're the problem.

laniakea_0

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

Desiato wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

That would be actually painful to me. Imagine everyone having to walk to the streets of a city at the speed of the slowest walker... On single lane roads, isn't it fun having to drive at the speed of the slowest driver? Well, to the slowest driver I imagine it is....

This thread reminds me of the classic type A/B dynamic.

What I love about eso is its speed. I love to do things quickly. I "speed run" by killing everything as quickly as possible. That's just playing the game.

The irony here is that ZOS made content so easy that anyone could complete it with any build, so of course experienced players using strong builds are going to completely melt it.

AzuraFan wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

If the choice is between going with the fastest group member or the slowest group member, I'd choose the fastest. As much as I don't like it when a group has a speed runner, I'd like it even less if a 10 minute dungeon run is turned into 30+ minutes because someone wants to listen to every word of dialogue, and/or read every lorebook on the spot, and/or open every container.

If everyone in the group agrees to it up front, fine (for me it would depend on if I had the time). But if you show up in a pug and just expect everyone to move at your slow pace without so much as an ask, and then you get upset when the rest of the group proceeds through the dungeon at a reasonable pace (not speed running), you're the problem.

how about separate queues for speed runners and the casuals then?

BananaBender

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

Desiato wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

That would be actually painful to me. Imagine everyone having to walk to the streets of a city at the speed of the slowest walker... On single lane roads, isn't it fun having to drive at the speed of the slowest driver? Well, to the slowest driver I imagine it is....

This thread reminds me of the classic type A/B dynamic.

What I love about eso is its speed. I love to do things quickly. I "speed run" by killing everything as quickly as possible. That's just playing the game.

The irony here is that ZOS made content so easy that anyone could complete it with any build, so of course experienced players using strong builds are going to completely melt it.

AzuraFan wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

If the choice is between going with the fastest group member or the slowest group member, I'd choose the fastest. As much as I don't like it when a group has a speed runner, I'd like it even less if a 10 minute dungeon run is turned into 30+ minutes because someone wants to listen to every word of dialogue, and/or read every lorebook on the spot, and/or open every container.

If everyone in the group agrees to it up front, fine (for me it would depend on if I had the time). But if you show up in a pug and just expect everyone to move at your slow pace without so much as an ask, and then you get upset when the rest of the group proceeds through the dungeon at a reasonable pace (not speed running), you're the problem.

how about separate queues for speed runners and the casuals then?

It's already a pain to que in as a DD, can't imagine what it would be if the ques were split...

ESO_player123

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

Desiato wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

I think a possible solution would be "doors" that only open when all players are in the vicinity and ready to proceed.

So basically force the run to slow down.

How about no.

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

That would be actually painful to me. Imagine everyone having to walk to the streets of a city at the speed of the slowest walker... On single lane roads, isn't it fun having to drive at the speed of the slowest driver? Well, to the slowest driver I imagine it is....

This thread reminds me of the classic type A/B dynamic.

What I love about eso is its speed. I love to do things quickly. I "speed run" by killing everything as quickly as possible. That's just playing the game.

The irony here is that ZOS made content so easy that anyone could complete it with any build, so of course experienced players using strong builds are going to completely melt it.

AzuraFan wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

not force to run slow, just force to wait for everyone. this doesn't prevent you from moving fast. all you'd need to do is move together.

If the choice is between going with the fastest group member or the slowest group member, I'd choose the fastest. As much as I don't like it when a group has a speed runner, I'd like it even less if a 10 minute dungeon run is turned into 30+ minutes because someone wants to listen to every word of dialogue, and/or read every lorebook on the spot, and/or open every container.

If everyone in the group agrees to it up front, fine (for me it would depend on if I had the time). But if you show up in a pug and just expect everyone to move at your slow pace without so much as an ask, and then you get upset when the rest of the group proceeds through the dungeon at a reasonable pace (not speed running), you're the problem.

how about separate queues for speed runners and the casuals then?

Probably the story mode that a lot of people suggested would be a better solution.

Sakiri

I don't see how it's so hard to make a group to run slow through the place.

I see a ton of people making groups in guilds and in zone chat, why can't you do that for your purposes?

Oblivion_Protocol

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't see how it's so hard to make a group to run slow through the place.

I see a ton of people making groups in guilds and in zone chat, why can't you do that for your purposes?

Because the slow dungeon crawlers don’t want to admit that there are more speedrunners than there are people who want to kill every mob, loot every chest, and talk to every NPC.

MasterSpatula

Personally, I think if anyone attacks a boss while another party member is in dialogue with an NPC or interacting with a chest or Heavy Sack, the game should pull the one who started the fight back to the other player. But what do I know?

Servadei

I'd rather be dragged to the boss and fight than left behind and get nothing.