Werewolf Needs Vigor

dark_hunterxmg

Werewolves have no substantial heal over time ability. Unlike other classes who can easily slot 4+ heals, Werewolves only have a single burst heal and no ability to cross heal.
Currently, in order to survive, a Werewolf must create a max resistance tank, which leaves little room for damage. A damage oriented wolf won't really do that much damage and will be very easily killed.
Healing over time and cross healing would open up a great deal of build options for the Werewolf community. Group play would be more effective in PVE and PVP.
Werewolf should be able to slot Vigor (either morph) on their bar in order to compete at higher levels of gameplay without relying entirely on specific 5-piece healing sets that offer very little in comparison.

Erickson9610

Werewolf needs a crossheal ability, a heal which doesn't scale off of Max Health, and a heal over time. A skill like Vigor would be ideal for this, but I don't think Werewolf should be able to slot non-Werewolf skills.

Rather, Werewolf needs a skill like this within their own toolkit. Whether that be added via a new Scribing ability for Werewolf, or an adjustment to Hircine's Bounty/Rage/Fortitude, whatever means to allow these kinds of healing while transformed should be unique to werewolves only.


I personally think Hircine's Rage should scale off Weapon and Spell Damage, while Hircine's Fortitude should regain the heal over time it used to have. Both morphs should heal an additional target.

Or, maybe a Werewolf Grimoire that allows you to heal allies in an area, and can be adjusted to heal over time as well. That way you could slot both Hircine's Bounty/Rage/Fortitude and this Scribed Skill to have two healing abilities on your Werewolf bar.

dark_hunterxmg

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Werewolf needs a crossheal ability, a heal which doesn't scale off of Max Health, and a heal over time. A skill like Vigor would be ideal for this, but I don't think Werewolf should be able to slot non-Werewolf skills.

I was just thinking of the easiest way for this ability to be slottable. If they wanted to add a copy and paste of it to the Werewolf skill line and call it something else, that could work too.

As far as the burst heal goes, I would like to see either morph be able to heal one additional target, similar to Twilight Matriarch.

Returning the heal over time to the burst heal would be more ideal than having to slot an additional skill. Not really sure why it was removed to begin with.

huskandhunger

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Has there been any discussions related to this aspect of healing internally?

We've been suffering with Claws of Life for a long time and some Quality-of-Life adjustments would greatly enhance build diversity for werewolf players.

Separating out the heal on Claws of Life to be a per second heal unrelated to the damage portion of this ability would go a long way toward opening up more play styles for werewolf players / alternative builds etc.

Erickson9610

huskandhunger wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Has there been any discussions related to this aspect of healing internally?

We've been suffering with Claws of Life for a long time and some Quality-of-Life adjustments would greatly enhance build diversity for werewolf players.

Separating out the heal on Claws of Life to be a per second heal unrelated to the damage portion of this ability would go a long way toward opening up more play styles for werewolf players / alternative builds etc.

It's worth noting that Claws of Life is unbalanced between PvE and PvP contexts.

The healing scales per target hit by the damage over time — in PvE, this usually means you get a lot of unnecessary overhealing whenever you're faced with trash mobs, whereas in PvP (where Battle Spirit cuts damage taken and healing received anyway) you are faced against enemies who can purge/cleanse the damage over time and who don't take nearly as much damage from it as PvE enemies would.

So, your pseudo healing per second is extremely high in PvE, and extremely low in PvP. You're better off using Claws of Anguish in both PvE (higher DPS) and in PvP (better pressure) because in neither instance is the healing component truly that worthwhile.

ViggyBoi

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Werewolf needs a crossheal ability, a heal which doesn't scale off of Max Health, and a heal over time. A skill like Vigor would be ideal for this, but I don't think Werewolf should be able to slot non-Werewolf skills.

Rather, Werewolf needs a skill like this within their own toolkit. Whether that be added via a new Scribing ability for Werewolf, or an adjustment to Hircine's Bounty/Rage/Fortitude, whatever means to allow these kinds of healing while transformed should be unique to werewolves only.


I personally think Hircine's Rage should scale off Weapon and Spell Damage, while Hircine's Fortitude should regain the heal over time it used to have. Both morphs should heal an additional target.

Or, maybe a Werewolf Grimoire that allows you to heal allies in an area, and can be adjusted to heal over time as well. That way you could slot both Hircine's Bounty/Rage/Fortitude and this Scribed Skill to have two healing abilities on your Werewolf bar.

the devs are probably going to keep the "one bar compress every potential tool into 5 skills" design philosophy. Honestly if they revert the nerf to claws of life and perhaps tweak hircine's rage (the one that scales off offensive stats im pretty sure) and add another conditional element ie add a HoT when you arent at max HP then get the major berserk +5% nerf when you are at max hp that could be neat. Issue is the skill is still really expensive so the HoT would have to be strong to make it worth keeping up, but not too strong or everyone will complain werewolves need to be gutted some more. There's like that one HoT component that comes with corpse consuming that I would totally be willing to trade for an actual heal over time, but I guess that comes down to whether the devs consider that too much.

dark_hunterxmg

[/quote]Issue is the skill is still really expensive so the HoT would have to be strong to make it worth keeping up, but not too strong or everyone will complain werewolves need to be gutted some more.[/quote]

You're right about it being expensive. That's part of why I think the Vigor skill is a good option. It's a different resource pool that you're likely spec'd into and it's not incredibly expensive. Assuming that the cost stayed the same, and was just a copy and paste into the Werewolf line, it would be huge for the Werewolf community.

I hear a lot of players say things about Werewolves doing no damage. Or saying they're a bad Werewolf because they died easily. The lack of damage is due to being a tank spec and the lack of survivability is due to trying to be a damage spec.

There will pretty much always be someone that thinks a Werewolf is OP, and I would invite any them to try it and see for themselves. If it is ever actually OP (highly unlikely) we will see a ton of people become Werewolf mains overnight just like they did with Sorc.

Artim_X

Maybe when transformed a significant amount of health regen could be added.

For instance, for the Blood Rage passive: When you deal damage, the duration of your Werewolf Transformation is increased by 4 seconds and for 4 seconds your health regeneration is (doubled or increased by X000). This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

dark_hunterxmg

Artim_X wrote: »

Maybe when transformed a significant amount of health regen could be added.

For instance, for the Blood Rage passive: When you deal damage, the duration of your Werewolf Transformation is increased by 4 seconds and for 4 seconds your health regeneration is (doubled or increased by X000). This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

That's an interesting idea. It would have to be a pretty significant amount of recovery to to be comparable to a heal over time. I'm talking like 2k per second on top of normal health recovery and not affected by battle spirit.

Erickson9610

Artim_X wrote: »

Maybe when transformed a significant amount of health regen could be added.

For instance, for the Blood Rage passive: When you deal damage, the duration of your Werewolf Transformation is increased by 4 seconds and for 4 seconds your health regeneration is (doubled or increased by X000). This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

I've always thought werewolves could use a buff to health recovery. That's one of the common werewolf tropes in media — their supernatural regeneration meant you'd need a special counter to defeat them.


Though, that's not exactly a trope that TES werewolves share. Skyrim's werewolf outright disables health regeneration, like ESO's stage 4 vampire does. Though I think the purpose of disabling the health recovery in that game was to encourage the player to feed on enemies to heal.


As a final note, health recovery would not be a desirable replacement for a suitable heal over time in PvP, as health recovery is significantly nerfed by Battle Spirit.

Wuuffyy

I would be fine if they felt the need to remove the claws of life heal entirely if they would just give us a better HoT.

Someone suggested double health recovery tied into the passives or something as an option- but honestly, I don't want to be FORCED to build health recov any more than the next person (plus the playstyle is incredibly toxic).

Just tie an echoing vigor level HoT to one of the morphs (pref fortitude), make hircine's rage scale nicely off of wep and spell damage (maybe similar to a ST 'wield soul' heal), and then make rage's threshold for the berserk proc 80% or higher health (and drop the increased damage taken).

Wuuffyy

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I would be fine if they felt the need to remove the claws of life heal entirely if they would just give us a better HoT.

Someone suggested double health recovery tied into the passives or something as an option- but honestly, I don't want to be FORCED to build health recov any more than the next person (plus the playstyle is incredibly toxic).

Just tie an echoing vigor level HoT to one of the morphs (pref fortitude), make hircine's rage scale nicely off of wep and spell damage (maybe similar to a ST 'wield soul' heal), and then make rage's threshold for the berserk proc 80% or higher health (and drop the increased damage taken).

Once again though, and this is the biggest part- I have lost all faith that any of the feedback here will be utilized in any capacity. Very frustrating and a thought, I thought, I should relay again.

Erickson9610

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I would be fine if they felt the need to remove the claws of life heal entirely if they would just give us a better HoT.

Someone suggested double health recovery tied into the passives or something as an option- but honestly, I don't want to be FORCED to build health recov any more than the next person (plus the playstyle is incredibly toxic).

Just tie an echoing vigor level HoT to one of the morphs (pref fortitude), make hircine's rage scale nicely off of wep and spell damage (maybe similar to a ST 'wield soul' heal), and then make rage's threshold for the berserk proc 80% or higher health (and drop the increased damage taken).

Once again though, and this is the biggest part- I have lost all faith that any of the feedback here will be utilized in any capacity. Very frustrating and a thought, I thought, I should relay again.

If it's any consolation, I totally agree with your proposed changes here, and I know a few other Werewolf players who would as well. These ideas are shared among the Werewolf community, so I hope ZOS makes a note of that when they revisit the Werewolf skill line and playstyle as a whole.

Iriidius

Werewolf definitely needs Vigor.
Werewolf haters complained that Hircines Fortitude was the strongest burst heal in the game and overperforming ignoring that in absence of a HoT working in werewolve form it had to also be used as a HoT and compared to a HoT its healing per cast and cost is rather underperforming. Also it does not get buffed by many class passives nor by any werewolve healing passives.
Werewolf also needs unique 10k resistance back it had before update 29. It had higher resistance than most mortals/vampires but also could not use block cost/dmg reduction from shield or froststaff passive and now mortals/vampires have higher resistance as they have defending (potentate) backbar and minor resolve from resolving vigor.

Hircines rage should scale with wpn/spell dmg + max mag/stam as it used to scale with max mag + spell dmg before they made it scale with health because werewolf other skills scaled with max stamina and wpn dmg before hybridization and the major berserk is not worth it.
25% more dmg done from prenerf major berserk and 20% more dmg taken could be useful for some dmg bursts but casting such an expensive skill for 10% more dmg for only 6 seconds is not worth it even without the dmg penalty that only got reduced to 5% insteat of removing it. Other skills like momentum or healing soul give major buffs for 20 seconds in addition to a burst heal.

Iriidius

Even in update 26-28 when players complained they saw groups of werewolves I only saw a werewolve once every few weeks. For weeks I could see faction stacks of all factions with hundreds of players because half of them change every day without seeing a single werewolve and after nerf it got even worse.

autocookies

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8182034

+1 for requesting werewolf vigor. Or for a scribing equivalent skill that adds some customization to werewolf.

IncultaWolf

Yes