New maps are nice, but 8v8 is a mess

silky_soft · October 29

8v8 won't start unless there is 8 on each team. The timer is so long it's insane and you can't leave because you'll get deserter penalties. Just have to wait.

DM is horrible in 8v8. 1 team is high 1 team is low. First team to wipe stands in spawn. Game over.

I like the new maps.

ZOS_Kevin · October 29

We are aware of the issue regarding Battlegrounds queuing and working to resolve this. We have been able to reproduce the issue, so we are working toward a fix.

Thanks for your map feedback! Glad you're enjoying them.

Silvains_Demon · October 29

Hope they fix soon before this update comes to console 😅 and yeah.... thats crazy... one fix would be to buff players still in spawn depending on the maps to discourage such behavior... but it depends on the new maps. If it's impossible to get back into spawn, it's worth it... but if someone can just go back into spawn for OP buff.... yikes.... could add "spawn defensives" as well? NPCs that activate and target the enemy when the majority of the team is still in spawn?

Hmm... complex problem caused by this switch in mechanics....

silky_soft · October 29

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We are aware of the issue regarding Battlegrounds queuing and working to resolve this. We have been able to reproduce the issue, so we are working toward a fix.

Thanks for your map feedback! Glad you're enjoying them.

Can you please remove deathmatch from 8v8 solo while your at it. One team just sits in spawn after the first fight. Healing for points.

Also please remove the 8m range buff on 28m skills from battlespirit in battlegrounds.

Theist_VII · October 29

silky_soft wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We are aware of the issue regarding Battlegrounds queuing and working to resolve this. We have been able to reproduce the issue, so we are working toward a fix.

Thanks for your map feedback! Glad you're enjoying them.

Can you please remove deathmatch from 8v8 solo while your at it. One team just sits in spawn after the first fight. Healing for points.

Also please remove the 8m range buff on 28m skills from battlespirit in battlegrounds.

Absolutely not.

Deathmatch is hands down the most popular mode by a landslide. When the Battlegrounds queues were Deathmatch Only, queue speeds were effectively halved.

If getting spawn trapped is a concern of yours, a better approach would be to ask for smart spawning.

actosh · October 29

8v8 crazy king was the best expirience i Had in a Long Time.

silky_soft · October 29

Theist_VII wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We are aware of the issue regarding Battlegrounds queuing and working to resolve this. We have been able to reproduce the issue, so we are working toward a fix.

Thanks for your map feedback! Glad you're enjoying them.

Can you please remove deathmatch from 8v8 solo while your at it. One team just sits in spawn after the first fight. Healing for points.

Also please remove the 8m range buff on 28m skills from battlespirit in battlegrounds.

Absolutely not.

Deathmatch is hands down the most popular mode by a landslide. When the Battlegrounds queues were Deathmatch Only, queue speeds were effectively halved.

If getting spawn trapped is a concern of yours, a better approach would be to ask for smart spawning.

That was 3 teams. It was great. Now it's 2 teams. Now it's not.

RenTheCat · October 29

8vs8 should outright be removed.
There are not enough players interested in battlegrounds for this. It was already rare to get 12 players for a BG match before this update, now we need 16?
It's even worse in under lvl 50 BGs. There are no 16 players queing for Battlegrounds, why make it so 8vs8 is the only mode available for low level characters?
Even worse in group setting. 16 people playing in duos??

lonewolf26 · October 29

I've had a mixed bag of 8v8 DMs. I had two very early in the day that turned into one group steam rolling around the map much like a ball group in cyro. I also had one that was fairly evenly matched and was quite fun. If only balling could be disincentivized. I had several enjoyable 4v4 matches that didn't drag on and were far less sweaty than the 8v8 ball festival.

EF321 · October 29

Most of my 8v8 didn't start, but those few that did were DM and Crazy king and all were pretty horrible experience. Usually team that wins first encounter then snowballs to victory.

4v4 felt much better overall.

dcrush · October 29

Queues aren’t filling, so no idea how the new modes are. But I guess they’re not very popular.

moderatelyfatman · October 29

Yep, one of my guildies waited and then got booted because there weren't enough players....

pklemming · October 29

This imbalance issue is just as prevalent in 4 v 4. The team with the upper hand will dominate the fight, often resulting in spawn camping. The removal of the 3rd team was an extremely bad call.

xylena_lazarow · October 29

The 8v8 solo is a ton of fun but the queue is bugging out getting stuck at "Looking for player..." and then either the whole lobby gets disbanded and kicked, or worse, an incomplete team gets thrown in there.

The 4v4 is way too volatile, 1 bad player can be carried, 2 bad players on your team and you're better off eating a deserter penalty. At least put a mercy rule in there for when one side immediately dominates while the other folds.

There should probably only be 2 queues. 8v8 solo casual, 4v4 comp ranked. And bring back the purple Storm Lords, the orange team looks too similar to the red Ebonheart Pact.

flizomica · October 29

An unbalanced 4v4 feels extraordinarily bad to play, but I've been having a ton of fun in 8v8 solo (when the queue doesn't bug).

colossalvoids · October 29

I'd agree that 8v8 feels really bad, probably worse than old 4v4v4. 4v4 though is great imo, at least I was lucky to have all fights more-less even apart from like one, people are doing objectives, there's enough competent folks yet to make it actually entertaining. Wonder if it will 180° after a month or so.

Vogtard · October 29

pklemming wrote: »

This imbalance issue is just as prevalent in 4 v 4. The team with the upper hand will dominate the fight, often resulting in spawn camping. The removal of the 3rd team was an extremely bad call.

It's the first day and the individual MMRs are not yet properly established. I think this issue should resolve by itself pretty soon when the MMR-ization reaches a steady state, and we should theoretically reach equilibrium in terms of average team power.
Give it a couple of days.

Theignson · October 29

8v8:

What is new about this, is instead of 3 sorcs blasting you from range, there are 6 sorcs blasting you from range

Sheridan · October 29

3 sides in a fight works way better for maintaining the balance than 2 sides. In a two-side fight, one team almost always totally dominates the other. Many years ago in Warhammer Online a lot of players wished there were a third side. When ESO came out, I thought the developers took that experience into consideration by introducing the Three Banners War and later 3-sided Battlegrounds. But now all of a sudden it's a step back.

Theist_VII · October 29

Sheridan wrote: »

3 sides in a fight works way better for maintaining the balance than 2 sides. In a two-side fight, one team almost always totally dominates the other. Many years ago in Warhammer Online a lot of players wished there were a third side. When ESO came out, I thought the developers took that experience into consideration by introducing the Three Banners War and later 3-sided Battlegrounds. But now all of a sudden it's a step back.

Yet, anyone who has actually played 3-party PvP will tell you that ideals do not match reality.

Reality is that the 3rd team that’s in last is usually going after the 2nd team instead of the 1st to try to steal 2nd as they have no hope at 1st.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 29

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sheridan wrote: »

3 sides in a fight works way better for maintaining the balance than 2 sides. In a two-side fight, one team almost always totally dominates the other. Many years ago in Warhammer Online a lot of players wished there were a third side. When ESO came out, I thought the developers took that experience into consideration by introducing the Three Banners War and later 3-sided Battlegrounds. But now all of a sudden it's a step back.

Yet, anyone who has actually played 3-party PvP will tell you that ideals do not match reality.

Reality is that the 3rd team that’s in last is usually going after the 2nd team instead of the 1st to try to steal 2nd as they have no hope at 1st.

With that circumstance in mind, at least 2nd place can kill 3rd, while 3rd at least can try to overthrow second. Yet with only two sides... Wouldn't be surprised if spawn camping becomes omnipresent in DM.

Ren_TheRedFox · October 29

I think it's a good idea to download "Auto Accept Queue" till they fix the queuing problem ... that way the bgs will be filled and people don't have to wait

Chilly-McFreeze · October 29

silky_soft wrote: »

I like the new maps.

One a side note, it would be great if you couldn't kill yourself by accidentaly gap closing into the enemies spawn point.

gariondavey · October 29

4v4v4 is fine for deathmatch, but not objective modes.
The new system has so many flaws, many of which were pointed out to zos week 1 of pts.

-too many queues
-rounds have big issues/rezzing issues
-no role selection (healer/dps) results in really imbalanced matches, especially in 4v4 solo ranked
-8v8 larger maps in flag games result in very little pvp, with people just running around a lot
-scoreboard doesn't reward necros or shielders
-leaderboard isn't mmr based, it is medal based (cheese-able by healers spamming "crit heal" medals)

Xarc · October 29

with 3 other random dudes, it wasnt that easy

now with 7 random ones, it's messy

silky_soft · October 30

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I like the new maps.

One a side note, it would be great if you couldn't kill yourself by accidentaly gap closing into the enemies spawn point.

That's the same as the other bg. They added some buffs if you check out your character screen for chain pulls and what not. But no gap closer immunity.

Chilly-McFreeze · October 30

silky_soft wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

I like the new maps.

One a side note, it would be great if you couldn't kill yourself by accidentaly gap closing into the enemies spawn point.

That's the same as the other bg. They added some buffs if you check out your character screen for chain pulls and what not. But no gap closer immunity.

Must be an oversight.

NeoniKa · November 14

The 8 vs 8 Battlegrounds were a funny way to show how great the 4 vs 4 Battlegrounds are. But now they could just remove the utterly boring 8 vs 8 Battlegrounds and let us continue fully enjoying the 4 vs 4 Battlegrounds as they were.

I used to have a lot of fun playing the old 4 vs 4 Battlegrounds every day, now it's super hard to get a group on 8 vs 8 Battlegrounds because we need 16 players there, and hard to find 4 vs 4 Battlegrounds because they divided the few players playing Battlegrounds. It's now very very rare for me to get a group and most time it takes hours.

Also, they killed the Chaosball and Capture the Relic on 4 vs 4 Battlegrounds and those are both horrendously boring on 8 vs 8 Battlegrounds.

I really hope the 4 vs 4 Battlegrounds disappear soon and we have the 4 vs 4 Battlegrounds as it was again.

NeoniKa · November 14

So, as I absolutely hated the new 8 vs 8 Battlegrounds I obviously returned to the 4 vs 4 thinking it was the classic ones. But I just found out that those are really 4 vs 4 and not the old 4 vs 4 but with 3 teams. Now it's only 2 teams in a tiny map, and equally horrendous. Not at all fun.

So... what should I select now to play the classic Battlegrounds that I love. Are those random or is there a way to select it. I'd like to never ever play these new horrible Battlegrounds and play only the classic ones.

the1andonlyskwex · November 14

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Sheridan wrote: »

3 sides in a fight works way better for maintaining the balance than 2 sides. In a two-side fight, one team almost always totally dominates the other. Many years ago in Warhammer Online a lot of players wished there were a third side. When ESO came out, I thought the developers took that experience into consideration by introducing the Three Banners War and later 3-sided Battlegrounds. But now all of a sudden it's a step back.

Yet, anyone who has actually played 3-party PvP will tell you that ideals do not match reality.

Reality is that the 3rd team that’s in last is usually going after the 2nd team instead of the 1st to try to steal 2nd as they have no hope at 1st.

With that circumstance in mind, at least 2nd place can kill 3rd, while 3rd at least can try to overthrow second. Yet with only two sides... Wouldn't be surprised if spawn camping becomes omnipresent in DM.

I didn't love my first experience in the new 8v8 (there were too many players for my contributions to feel impactful), but in the old 4v4v4 DM I always found that a very common situation was for teams 1 and 2 to wind up in a race to see who could farm team 3 (whichever was least tanky) the fastest. It was very rare for the 3-way system to actually make the game more fun than a 2-way match would have been.

It's also worth noting that all of the most successful (non-battle royale) team-based PvP games (across genres) have 2 team matches. ESO had 3 teams (and factions) because some of the original devs had nostalgia for Dark Age of Camelot (which was more of a cult classic than a real hit), and 10 years later that approach hasn't aged well.

SkaraMinoc · November 14

Not sure why players think 4v4v4 was great. It was plagued with issues that the new 4v4 and 8v8 solves.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

4v4v4 Deathmatch: The two dominant teams don't kill each other and instead race to kill the weakest player(s) on the third team. This mode has many block tanks that contribute nothing and end up making the teams lopsided. There are too many 19k health Nightblades that die in 1 second and feed. When you have these players on a 4-player team, it greatly impacts the team. 8-player teams can absorb these types of players much better.

4v4v4 Chaosball: The max move speed ball carrier is the biggest issue.

4v4v4 Capture the Relic: Too many issues to list but I think you covered many of them.

4v4v4 Land Grab: Too many capture points in the second half of the game. Should be 2 or 3 max. These modes don't work well on larger maps like Istirus Outpost where you spend most of your time running around.

There was even an article where the dev team highlighted many of the problems with 4v4v4 and how they are now fixed.