Snake in the Stars Have NO Counter?!

forum_gpt

Theist_VII wrote: »

The set is up one third of the time.

That’s horrible, you have a dead 5 piece for 8 seconds. If someone is willing to make that trade-off, let them have it, as it is clearly the design of the set.

The set is so strong that it doesn’t matter if it’s up one-third of the time.

Snake in the Stars hits hard enough that those 4 seconds of uptime make a huge difference, especially when paired with the fact that it’s unpurgeable. That 8-second downtime doesn’t mean much when you're dealing with massive damage pressure while trying to stay alive.

And if we’re talking about cooldowns, one of the most complained-about sets, Tarnished Nightmare, has the same cooldown and still causes tons of frustration. Just because a set isn’t active 100% of the time doesn’t mean its impact isn’t game-changing when it is. Letting someone have a "dead" 5-piece for a few seconds doesn’t offset how devastating Snake in the Stars can be when it’s active.

sarahthes

forum_gpt wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

The set is up one third of the time.

That’s horrible, you have a dead 5 piece for 8 seconds. If someone is willing to make that trade-off, let them have it, as it is clearly the design of the set.

The set is so strong that it doesn’t matter if it’s up one-third of the time.

Snake in the Stars hits hard enough that those 4 seconds of uptime make a huge difference, especially when paired with the fact that it’s unpurgeable. That 8-second downtime doesn’t mean much when you're dealing with massive damage pressure while trying to stay alive.

And if we’re talking about cooldowns, one of the most complained-about sets, Tarnished Nightmare, has the same cooldown and still causes tons of frustration. Just because a set isn’t active 100% of the time doesn’t mean its impact isn’t game-changing when it is. Letting someone have a "dead" 5-piece for a few seconds doesn’t offset how devastating Snake in the Stars can be when it’s active.

So you kill one person then get focused down by 4 of their friends and by the time you revive they've moved on...

It's not like you can attack more than one person at a time with it, since it specifically states you can't.

How many times have you been killed by it?

Theist_VII

forum_gpt wrote: »

And if we’re talking about cooldowns, one of the most complained-about sets, Tarnished Nightmare, has the same cooldown and still causes tons of frustration. Just because a set isn’t active 100% of the time doesn’t mean its impact isn’t game-changing when it is. Letting someone have a "dead" 5-piece for a few seconds doesn’t offset how devastating Snake in the Stars can be when it’s active.

Horrible example, people complain about Tarnished because people stack procs and attack from stealth with it. Anyone would be fine with Tarnished if you couldn’t bypass the multi-proc nerf from years ago.

That being said, all of the heal punishing sets that have an actual impact all take time to do their job.

forum_gpt

Theist_VII wrote: »

That’s horrible, you have a dead 5 piece for 8 seconds. If someone is willing to make that trade-off, let them have it, as it is clearly the design of the set.

You keep contradicting yourself.

Synapsis123

joergino wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up. Ball groups don't even care about this set. It doesn't effect them at all.

You said "pugs", so it means you were grouped. The "g" means "group".

Edit: My grammar was awful. I said I wasn't grouped. I was just referring to random people around me at the time as Pugs. This is a pretty common practice in ESO.

Theist_VII

forum_gpt wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

That’s horrible, you have a dead 5 piece for 8 seconds. If someone is willing to make that trade-off, let them have it, as it is clearly the design of the set.

You keep contradicting yourself.

How is that a contradiction?



There is only a 4 second down-time on the set as a result, instead of 8 seconds making Tarnished Nightmare a benefit for 50% of the time compared to the 33% of the time that Snakes in the Stars is working.

The use case of Tarnished compared to Snakes is night and day, with Snakes being absolutely nowhere other than very niché builds, and every Nightblade on live is using Tarnished.

El_Borracho

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

What seems to be overlooked is SITS IS the counterplay to builds who run multiple HOTs and ball group spammers. Its both a weak set and a niche set. You have to give up a lot in order to run a set that causes damage to those who rely on HOTs to survive in PVP. Which is what PVP typically is, either go defense or offense. SITS is the counter to the cheese tank/HOT build and in return does not put out a lot of DPS unless you play into its strategy. If you could run SITS and hit the target with HOTs, that would be a problem. But that's not what SITS does.

This line of "oh, I should just stop healing and die" is hyperbole at best. No. You should stop running in a ball group that overheals, as you pointed out, or change your strategy when you hear that hissing sound. Its got a 12 second cooldown, after all.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up. Ball groups don't even care about this set. It doesn't effect them at all.

Ahem:

Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots.

But I wasn't grouped with anyone! Oooo-kay. Must be one of those devious groups of healers that roam the hills of Cyrodiil, setting up their unsuspecting solo player victims. The order of the Snake in the Stars strikes again!

Theist_VII

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

What seems to be overlooked is SITS IS the counterplay to builds who run multiple HOTs and ball group spammers. Its both a weak set and a niche set. You have to give up a lot in order to run a set that causes damage to those who rely on HOTs to survive in PVP. Which is what PVP typically is, either go defense or offense. SITS is the counter to the cheese tank/HOT build and in return does not put out a lot of DPS unless you play into its strategy. If you could run SITS and hit the target with HOTs, that would be a problem. But that's not what SITS does.

This line of "oh, I should just stop healing and die" is hyperbole at best. No. You should stop running in a ball group that overheals, as you pointed out, or change your strategy when you hear that hissing sound. Its got a 12 second cooldown, after all.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up. Ball groups don't even care about this set. It doesn't effect them at all.

Ahem:

Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots.

But I wasn't grouped with anyone! Oooo-kay. Must be one of those devious groups of healers that roam the hills of Cyrodiil, setting up their unsuspecting solo player victims. The order of the Snake in the Stars strikes again!

That’s it! I’m making a character in all tank sets just to go roam the hills with Radiating Regeneration and Echoing Vigor.

Enjoy my 300 heals per second!

Synapsis123

Theist_VII wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

That’s horrible, you have a dead 5 piece for 8 seconds. If someone is willing to make that trade-off, let them have it, as it is clearly the design of the set.

You keep contradicting yourself.

How is that a contradiction?



There is only a 4 second down-time on the set as a result, instead of 8 seconds making Tarnished Nightmare a benefit for 50% of the time compared to the 33% of the time that Snakes in the Stars is working.

The use case of Tarnished compared to Snakes is night and day, with Snakes being absolutely nowhere other than very niché builds, and every Nightblade on live is using Tarnished.

The tarnished nightmare set is about the damage on the burst not the uptime on minor breach. Did you really believe minor breach and the snake in the stars debuff are comparable? Do you think people are wearing tarnished nightmare for the minor breach debuff? If they were to remove the minor breach component do you think people would stop wearing the set?

Galeriano2

forum_gpt wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

So, according to you, the solution is to stop healing and let myself die while I “focus” on the person using SITS? Brilliant. Because nothing says tactical gameplay like letting your health bar drop to zero while waiting for the set to wear off, right?

Also, let’s not pretend this set only punishes “bad or new players.” If you're in a small-scale fight and forced to deal with constant pressure, the only option is to heal through it—but guess what? That’s exactly what SITS punishes. Sure, you might be fine sitting behind 4 healers in a ball group, but in a small group or solo? The math just doesn't add up.

The solution is to use 2-3 burst heals during that 4 seconds window. Snake in the stars is a counter to HoTs especially those that heal for less than 1170 per tick. Anything that heals over this value will still be a net gain so burst heals will still deliver a noticable value of healing to Your health bar.

forum_gpt

Galeriano2 wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

So, according to you, the solution is to stop healing and let myself die while I “focus” on the person using SITS? Brilliant. Because nothing says tactical gameplay like letting your health bar drop to zero while waiting for the set to wear off, right?

Also, let’s not pretend this set only punishes “bad or new players.” If you're in a small-scale fight and forced to deal with constant pressure, the only option is to heal through it—but guess what? That’s exactly what SITS punishes. Sure, you might be fine sitting behind 4 healers in a ball group, but in a small group or solo? The math just doesn't add up.

The solution is to use 2-3 burst heals during that 4 seconds window. Snake in the stars is a counter to HoTs especially those that heal for less than 1170 per tick. Anything that heals over this value will still be a net gain so burst heals will still deliver a noticable value of healing to Your health bar.

You do realize HoTs stand for healing over time, right?

They stay on you because they last 5-10 seconds, so it’s not like you can just switch them off at will during those 4 seconds of Star Venom. It’s not that simple. HoTs are a core part of PvP healing, especially for small groups. While burst heals can help, it doesn’t change the fact that HoTs are constantly ticking and triggering Snake in the Stars, making it hard to fully avoid the damage. You can’t just ignore that, especially when HoTs are your lifeline in sustained fights.

Elendir2am

Snake in the Stars was nerfed to dust only, we need to nerf it to oblivion.

vgabor

Have you tried to actually using it? I have tried on a defile build (where putting major defile on a target proc snake as well), results were mediocre at best. Mostly people just shrugged it off, only case it actually proved to be useful were those troll tanks with high very high defense and constantly running hots.

cptscotty

Playing as a healer in PVP lately has been extremely frustrating.