Snake in the Stars Have NO Counter?!

Trejgon

forum_gpt wrote: »

The set applies Oblivion damage every time a player gets healed while Star Venom is active, which isn’t something you can just avoid or shrug off easily, especially in smaller groups.

It is damage application that can be "just" avoided in smaller group, by paying attention to not hit yourself with a heal that is not stronger than the damage tick, and can be also dealt with, by only using big burst heal when you actually need it, and have that singular burst heal out heal the proc.

Additionally, the comments you dismiss about dodging, were not meant as to dodge to prevent star venom proc somehow magically hitting you it was meant as mitigation of other potential sources of damage, while waiting for a tiny duration the thing has to wear off.

There is a lot of "ball group killers" that end up being stronger when used by ball group against smaller groups, but this one ain't scaling this way chief.

I could see argument to make that star venom maybe should be purgable effect, but again, so far you are not presenting a good case for that either.

On a side note, as opposed to the claim in your OP, snake in the stars was designed not to counter ball groups, but as a response to a wave of complaints about "troll tanks" which were characters whom would build for insane amount of hots, insane amount of resource sustain, and would then park themselves on a capture flag (for example in battlefields) and be virtually unmovable. It was then during the course of pts nerfed pretty harshly.

Renato90085

Trejgon wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The set applies Oblivion damage every time a player gets healed while Star Venom is active, which isn’t something you can just avoid or shrug off easily, especially in smaller groups.

It is damage application that can be "just" avoided in smaller group, by paying attention to not hit yourself with a heal that is not stronger than the damage tick, and can be also dealt with, by only using big burst heal when you actually need it, and have that singular burst heal out heal the proc.

Additionally, the comments you dismiss about dodging, were not meant as to dodge to prevent star venom proc somehow magically hitting you it was meant as mitigation of other potential sources of damage, while waiting for a tiny duration the thing has to wear off.

There is a lot of "ball group killers" that end up being stronger when used by ball group against smaller groups, but this one ain't scaling this way chief.

I could see argument to make that star venom maybe should be purgable effect, but again, so far you are not presenting a good case for that either.

On a side note, as opposed to the claim in your OP, snake in the stars was designed not to counter ball groups, but as a response to a wave of complaints about "troll tanks" which were characters whom would build for insane amount of hots, insane amount of resource sustain, and would then park themselves on a capture flag (for example in battlefields) and be virtually unmovable. It was then during the course of pts nerfed pretty harshly.

Why op think we can dodge dot

Aurielle

forum_gpt wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

So, according to you, the solution is to stop healing and let myself die while I “focus” on the person using SITS? Brilliant. Because nothing says tactical gameplay like letting your health bar drop to zero while waiting for the set to wear off, right?

Also, let’s not pretend this set only punishes “bad or new players.” If you're in a small-scale fight and forced to deal with constant pressure, the only option is to heal through it—but guess what? That’s exactly what SITS punishes. Sure, you might be fine sitting behind 4 healers in a ball group, but in a small group or solo? The math just doesn't add up.

The person running Snake in the Stars has sacrificed an entire set for one purpose only (countering heal stacking), and that entire set can itself be hard-countered by just not healing... You can effectively deny another player an entire fifth set bonus by not spamming heals and LOSing them until they make a mistake, then bursting them down before they have a chance to recover.

And if they win against you, so what? Why do small-scalers always expect they should be able to fight outnumbered and win? Sometimes you will come across builds that directly counter your playstyle, just like everyone else. Again, Snake in the Stars has already been nerfed significantly to the point where it only has niche utility. Settle down with the nerf requests. Do you want everyone in Cyrodiil to be reduced to running the same build? Because loudly whining on the forums whenever there's a build that forces you to play differently is what ultimately leads to less build diversity.

forum_gpt

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

LadyGP

The_Meathead wrote: »

Is this another "Save the Ball Groups!" thread?

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

As a ball group member - I've never had an issue getting hit with this set.

Rkindaleft

The Azureblight nerf isn't even live yet and you are already going after something else.

I swear some of y'all really have no shame.

El_Borracho

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

IncultaWolf

Rkindaleft wrote: »

The Azureblight nerf isn't even live yet and you are already going after something else.

I swear some of y'all really have no shame.

Most of these threads are just trolling/ragebait I think

forum_gpt

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

The Azureblight nerf isn't even live yet and you are already going after something else.

I swear some of y'all really have no shame.

Most of these threads are just trolling/ragebait I think

Thanks for your insightful contribution!

Synapsis123

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

El_Borracho

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

Synapsis123

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

Bashev

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

That is funny, you took 18k damage from a CD with 12 seconds. For this time you will eat at least 2 merci procs each with that damage and maybe 3 if the NB already have it proced.

Maybe it is just your block style that suffers, and maybe that is why you complained for Bash build before, maybe Bash burn your stamina every 333ms although that templars have the best counter with the bubble.

Please if you want to balance the game try to think what actually is OP and not what annoys me and counters my build so I dont want it in the game.

El_Borracho

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

What seems to be overlooked is SITS IS the counterplay to builds who run multiple HOTs and ball group spammers. Its both a weak set and a niche set. You have to give up a lot in order to run a set that causes damage to those who rely on HOTs to survive in PVP. Which is what PVP typically is, either go defense or offense. SITS is the counter to the cheese tank/HOT build and in return does not put out a lot of DPS unless you play into its strategy. If you could run SITS and hit the target with HOTs, that would be a problem. But that's not what SITS does.

This line of "oh, I should just stop healing and die" is hyperbole at best. No. You should stop running in a ball group that overheals, as you pointed out, or change your strategy when you hear that hissing sound. Its got a 12 second cooldown, after all.

Synapsis123

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

What seems to be overlooked is SITS IS the counterplay to builds who run multiple HOTs and ball group spammers. Its both a weak set and a niche set. You have to give up a lot in order to run a set that causes damage to those who rely on HOTs to survive in PVP. Which is what PVP typically is, either go defense or offense. SITS is the counter to the cheese tank/HOT build and in return does not put out a lot of DPS unless you play into its strategy. If you could run SITS and hit the target with HOTs, that would be a problem. But that's not what SITS does.

This line of "oh, I should just stop healing and die" is hyperbole at best. No. You should stop running in a ball group that overheals, as you pointed out, or change your strategy when you hear that hissing sound. Its got a 12 second cooldown, after all.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up. Ball groups don't even care about this set. It doesn't effect them at all.

forum_gpt

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

What seems to be overlooked is SITS IS the counterplay to builds who run multiple HOTs and ball group spammers. Its both a weak set and a niche set. You have to give up a lot in order to run a set that causes damage to those who rely on HOTs to survive in PVP. Which is what PVP typically is, either go defense or offense. SITS is the counter to the cheese tank/HOT build and in return does not put out a lot of DPS unless you play into its strategy. If you could run SITS and hit the target with HOTs, that would be a problem. But that's not what SITS does.

This line of "oh, I should just stop healing and die" is hyperbole at best. No. You should stop running in a ball group that overheals, as you pointed out, or change your strategy when you hear that hissing sound. Its got a 12 second cooldown, after all.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up.

Exactly! People act like only ball groups suffer from this, but even when you're solo, random HoTs from other players can trigger Star Venom. It’s not about being in a ball group—it’s the fact that this set punishes anyone getting heals, even from outside their group. You can't control everything happening around you in PvP.

joergino

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up. Ball groups don't even care about this set. It doesn't effect them at all.

You said "pugs", so it means you were grouped. The "g" means "group".

Renato90085

forum_gpt wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

What seems to be overlooked is SITS IS the counterplay to builds who run multiple HOTs and ball group spammers. Its both a weak set and a niche set. You have to give up a lot in order to run a set that causes damage to those who rely on HOTs to survive in PVP. Which is what PVP typically is, either go defense or offense. SITS is the counter to the cheese tank/HOT build and in return does not put out a lot of DPS unless you play into its strategy. If you could run SITS and hit the target with HOTs, that would be a problem. But that's not what SITS does.

This line of "oh, I should just stop healing and die" is hyperbole at best. No. You should stop running in a ball group that overheals, as you pointed out, or change your strategy when you hear that hissing sound. Its got a 12 second cooldown, after all.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up.

Exactly! People act like only ball groups suffer from this, but even when you're solo, random HoTs from other players can trigger Star Venom. It’s not about being in a ball group—it’s the fact that this set punishes anyone getting heals, even from outside their group. You can't control everything happening around you in PvP.

12s have a chance only can kill a hot build /close group player, and if he know how survive you lost a set, so strong

tom6143346

Interesting thing , same people where begging for Azur nerf as they do now for the snake set to nerf . Make up your own thoughts on this.

BetweenMidgets

Since shields are king now, seems like this still wouldn't be super effective, just very niche.

forum_gpt

Renato90085 wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.

If only PvP were that simple, right?

Surviving 4 seconds without a HoT in a 1v1 might sound reasonable in a perfect world, but PvP isn’t just about fighting one person in a vacuum. You're rarely dealing with just one opponent—there’s always pressure from multiple sources, whether it’s other players, CC, or additional debuffs.

Even in smaller-scale fights, that 4-second window can mean the difference between staying alive or getting overwhelmed. Telling someone to survive without healing for that long while under constant pressure just ignores how fast things can spiral in PvP. The unpurgeable Star Venom damage is the problem here, not whether someone can "survive 4 seconds."

What is this constant pressure you speak of? Another player attacking you? In PVP?

I'm not a PVP god, I'm maybe competent on a good day, but I know that constantly spamming HOTs when I'm in combat with another player is going to result in getting me killed by running out of resources. And that is without SITS.

Damage shields are a good start. Gap closers are another. Interrupts, CCs, and stuns are an option. Potions and Combat Prayer are another alternative. Or maybe, counterattack the SITS player who knows their best chance at beating you is watching you panic spam Vigor because they are wearing a pretty flimsy set.

If you properly manage your resources and use hots then you shouldn't die. Hots stand for "heal over time" so you shouldn't be spamming them. The point of them is you cast them and let them marinate for awhile.

Exactly. Which, in that case, SITS shouldn't be a issue. It only starts cooking you when you have multiple HOTs on you or smash Vigor repeatedly.

If you smash vigor repeatedly it will still do the same damage per second as if you let it continue ticking. The issue is most people run multiple hots, especially templars. Snake absolutely crushes my templar and it only gets worse when pugs are throwing me hots. Templar rune heals every second, ritual every 2 seconds, bubble every half second, and vigor every second. The counterplay to a set shouldn't be to stop healing and die.

But you identified the issue: "Pugs are throwing me hots." So you grouped with people who spammed HOTs, as is required for SITS to do what it did.

What seems to be overlooked is SITS IS the counterplay to builds who run multiple HOTs and ball group spammers. Its both a weak set and a niche set. You have to give up a lot in order to run a set that causes damage to those who rely on HOTs to survive in PVP. Which is what PVP typically is, either go defense or offense. SITS is the counter to the cheese tank/HOT build and in return does not put out a lot of DPS unless you play into its strategy. If you could run SITS and hit the target with HOTs, that would be a problem. But that's not what SITS does.

This line of "oh, I should just stop healing and die" is hyperbole at best. No. You should stop running in a ball group that overheals, as you pointed out, or change your strategy when you hear that hissing sound. Its got a 12 second cooldown, after all.

You do realize people from outside your group can heal you with hots right? I wasn't grouped with anyone. I told you I was solo and you are saying I'm in a ball group. Stop making things up.

Exactly! People act like only ball groups suffer from this, but even when you're solo, random HoTs from other players can trigger Star Venom. It’s not about being in a ball group—it’s the fact that this set punishes anyone getting heals, even from outside their group. You can't control everything happening around you in PvP.

12s have a chance only can kill a hot build /close group player, and if he know how survive you lost a set, so strong

What?

forum_gpt

tom6143346 wrote: »

Interesting thing , same people where begging for Azur nerf as they do now for the snake set to nerf . Make up your own thoughts on this.

I’m not "begging" for nerfs just for the sake of it. Azureblight had its own issues, and Snake in the Stars is a completely different problem. They affect different aspects of PvP, and both sets can be oppressive in their own ways. It's about balance in the game, not just going after sets randomly. If something is breaking the experience for players—whether it’s ball groups or small-scale PvP—it’s worth discussing, and that’s exactly what I’m doing here.

forum_gpt

Quoted post has been removed

The username is just a name, not an indicator of whether someone’s real or not. I’m here because I care about the state of the game and want to discuss actual PvP issues. You don’t have to agree with me, but brushing off what I’m saying by calling me a bot isn’t a valid argument.

sarahthes

Can't say I've ever seen this set in my death recap... then again, I usually play solo or duo, so I'm not in a group stacking hots very often.

BXR_Lonestar

why is anyone complaining about this set? Nobody uses it!

I've been killed a wopping ONE time by it since the set was introduced. Just like Azureblight, it doesn't seem like that it is seeing so much usage that we need to discuss "bringing it down" to be in line with other sets.

Synapsis123

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

why is anyone complaining about this set? Nobody uses it!

I've been killed a wopping ONE time by it since the set was introduced. Just like Azureblight, it doesn't seem like that it is seeing so much usage that we need to discuss "bringing it down" to be in line with other sets.

No one uses it because it is a niche set. You can't really be sure of how much performance you will get out of it until you actually use it. Sometimes it will absolutely wreck someone and sometimes it will do nothing. People want to use sets that have high performance all the time. This is more of an Xv1 set. It does basically nothing to ball groups.

forum_gpt

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

why is anyone complaining about this set? Nobody uses it!

I've been killed a wopping ONE time by it since the set was introduced. Just like Azureblight, it doesn't seem like that it is seeing so much usage that we need to discuss "bringing it down" to be in line with other sets.

Your argument is unfactual. Just because you haven’t been killed by it doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. The lack of personal experience doesn’t equal balance. Snake in the Stars might not be as widely used as some other sets, but when it is, it can be devastating—especially in small-scale PvP. And like Azureblight, it’s not always about how many people use it; it’s about how oppressive it is when it’s actually in play. If it’s strong enough to skew fights, then it’s definitely worth discussing.

Theist_VII

forum_gpt wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

why is anyone complaining about this set? Nobody uses it!

I've been killed a wopping ONE time by it since the set was introduced. Just like Azureblight, it doesn't seem like that it is seeing so much usage that we need to discuss "bringing it down" to be in line with other sets.

Your argument is unfactual. Just because you haven’t been killed by it doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. The lack of personal experience doesn’t equal balance. Snake in the Stars might not be as widely used as some other sets, but when it is, it can be devastating—especially in small-scale PvP. And like Azureblight, it’s not always about how many people use it; it’s about how oppressive it is when it’s actually in play. If it’s strong enough to skew fights, then it’s definitely worth discussing.

That’s the design, isn’t it?
Larger devastation, longer cooldown?

The set is supposed to be impactful against players with large amounts of HoTs on them.

forum_gpt

Theist_VII wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

why is anyone complaining about this set? Nobody uses it!

I've been killed a wopping ONE time by it since the set was introduced. Just like Azureblight, it doesn't seem like that it is seeing so much usage that we need to discuss "bringing it down" to be in line with other sets.

Your argument is unfactual. Just because you haven’t been killed by it doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. The lack of personal experience doesn’t equal balance. Snake in the Stars might not be as widely used as some other sets, but when it is, it can be devastating—especially in small-scale PvP. And like Azureblight, it’s not always about how many people use it; it’s about how oppressive it is when it’s actually in play. If it’s strong enough to skew fights, then it’s definitely worth discussing.

That’s the design, isn’t it?
Larger devastation, longer cooldown?

The set is supposed to be impactful against players with large amounts of HoTs on them.

You think an 8-second cooldown is a long time? Wow.

Theist_VII

The set is up one third of the time.

That’s horrible, you have a dead 5 piece for 8 seconds. If someone is willing to make that trade-off, let them have it, as it is clearly the design of the set.