3 Endgame Tanks Left Last Week

guarstompemoji

Lost three buddies last week. These were trifecta trials tanks. Reasons given:
- Performance
- New trials are not fun from the tank pov (running hms). One specifically said, the atros in vLC hm just aren't enjoyable. They'd completed MM this last year.

These tanks had clears on their role for achievements such as Mind Mender, Swash, GS, and so on.

WitchyKiki

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Reginald_leBlem

VLC hm is brutal on tanks. Two in my immediate circle rage quit the game completely over it. ZOS learned nothing from RG HM apparently

moderatelyfatman

guarstompemoji wrote: »

Lost three buddies last week. These were trifecta trials tanks. Reasons given:
- Performance
- New trials are not fun from the tank pov (running hms). One specifically said, the atros in vLC hm just aren't enjoyable. They'd completed MM this last year.

These tanks had clears on their role for achievements such as Mind Mender, Swash, GS, and so on.

Oh man, I hear you!

Aussie player here and we play on ~250 ping with some of our NZ friends on 300+ ping. Normal, stable lag isn't a problem since you can adapt to it (particularly in PvE) but the rubberband ping where it goes above 2k and back again is a real problem. For dps it means your skill bar will grey out for a few seconds and your dps will drop unless you are on an arcanist.

I don't tank or heal in harder content but I hear and see it happen in our group supports. For healers it's worse as they may miss that burst heal.

However, for tanks it's definitely the absolute worst. Ranged taunts no longer work as desyc means they will hit the wrong target or not at all, and then the mini runs around and one-shots a number of dps who then get upset at the tank.They can't even weave in heavy attacks for sustain because the boss heavy attacks come at random times that is unrelated to the visual cue on the screen.

Some days we have to scrap our trial run because our tank cannot stay logged into the game.

Personofsecrets

Tank LF trifecta trial progs here.

Interested in PB, SS, MM, and Unstoppable.

WitchyKiki

Personofsecrets wrote: »

and Unstoppable.

^ Not fake news.

Pelanora

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

guarstompemoji wrote: »

Lost three buddies last week. These were trifecta trials tanks. Reasons given:
- Performance
- New trials are not fun from the tank pov (running hms). One specifically said, the atros in vLC hm just aren't enjoyable. They'd completed MM this last year.

These tanks had clears on their role for achievements such as Mind Mender, Swash, GS, and so on.

Oh man, I hear you!

Aussie player here and we play on ~250 ping with some of our NZ friends on 300+ ping. Normal, stable lag isn't a problem since you can adapt to it (particularly in PvE) but the rubberband ping where it goes above 2k and back again is a real problem. For dps it means your skill bar will grey out for a few seconds and your dps will drop unless you are on an arcanist.

I don't tank or heal in harder content but I hear and see it happen in our group supports. For healers it's worse as they may miss that burst heal.

However, for tanks it's definitely the absolute worst. Ranged taunts no longer work as desyc means they will hit the wrong target or not at all, and then the mini runs around and one-shots a number of dps who then get upset at the tank.They can't even weave in heavy attacks for sustain because the boss heavy attacks come at random times that is unrelated to the visual cue on the screen.

Some days we have to scrap our trial run because our tank cannot stay logged into the game.

*NZer player cries into her wine*

AnduinTryggva

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

WitchyKiki

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Are you ok? Genuine question.

sarahthes

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Endgame's in a rough place right now and that's a fact. Endgame tanks teach near endgame tanks, who teach the tanks one 'level' below them in a kind of trickle down effect. The fewer tanks there are near the top, the fewer the sources of knowledge. I've run with tanks who are self taught/who taught each other without that type of incoming knowledge. They're all pretty terrible, tbh.

AnduinTryggva

WitchyKiki wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Are you ok? Genuine question.

I am absolutely fine. How about you?

AnduinTryggva

sarahthes wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Endgame's in a rough place right now and that's a fact. Endgame tanks teach near endgame tanks, who teach the tanks one 'level' below them in a kind of trickle down effect. The fewer tanks there are near the top, the fewer the sources of knowledge. I've run with tanks who are self taught/who taught each other without that type of incoming knowledge. They're all pretty terrible, tbh.

Well, at one moment these endgame tanks did not fall from the sky and also learned their ropes by playing the content. So will the others.
I fear the principal issue here is conveyed in your last sentence. I cite again: "They're all pretty terrible, tbh." Instead of making learning tanks shy away from harder content and thus without potential progression by calling the experience with them "terrible" maybe you could as well readjust your expectations towards tanks in order to make THEIR experience more pleasant and thus motivate them to progress.
I see this as a matter of long term survival of group content anyhow because it is a natural development, that some long time players and as an endgamer you have to be in most cases a long time player, will drop out. For many reasons and many of these outside of the game anyhow (family, job, shift of interest,...). So it is necessary to have new tanks taking up. So instead of calling them "terrible tanks" and instead of focussing solely on some of the endgame tanks as the only tanks that count.

That some content is maybe too hard that is another matter and it is legit to discuss whether vLC HM is maybe too much for tanks. I on my side have a more general grudge against recent trial designs that so much favor arcanist playstyle that my trial group runs with 6 arcanists, one sorcerer and one dk. Which I think should be a HUGE concern for ZOS.

MJallday

i off tanked VLC for the first time this weekend.

i dont think ill ever complain about any tank ever again after that

Jaimeh

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

e guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

We don't have official statistics to go by, only steam charts, and they don't paint the whole picture. But everyone has their own experience, and for what it's worth, I've been playing consistently for 9+ years and I've never seen friend and guild lists so quiet as in the past few months. And yes, we've always known the population of ESO waxes and wanes depending on the release schedule, but it's a fact that we have less content now, so I don't think it's complete fiction that players are playing less.

WitchyKiki

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Are you ok? Genuine question.

I am absolutely fine. How about you?

Great! Thanks for asking. Glad to hear youre fine.

Soarora

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Endgame's in a rough place right now and that's a fact. Endgame tanks teach near endgame tanks, who teach the tanks one 'level' below them in a kind of trickle down effect. The fewer tanks there are near the top, the fewer the sources of knowledge. I've run with tanks who are self taught/who taught each other without that type of incoming knowledge. They're all pretty terrible, tbh.

Well, at one moment these endgame tanks did not fall from the sky and also learned their ropes by playing the content. So will the others.
I fear the principal issue here is conveyed in your last sentence. I cite again: "They're all pretty terrible, tbh." Instead of making learning tanks shy away from harder content and thus without potential progression by calling the experience with them "terrible" maybe you could as well readjust your expectations towards tanks in order to make THEIR experience more pleasant and thus motivate them to progress.
I see this as a matter of long term survival of group content anyhow because it is a natural development, that some long time players and as an endgamer you have to be in most cases a long time player, will drop out. For many reasons and many of these outside of the game anyhow (family, job, shift of interest,...). So it is necessary to have new tanks taking up. So instead of calling them "terrible tanks" and instead of focussing solely on some of the endgame tanks as the only tanks that count.

That some content is maybe too hard that is another matter and it is legit to discuss whether vLC HM is maybe too much for tanks. I on my side have a more general grudge against recent trial designs that so much favor arcanist playstyle that my trial group runs with 6 arcanists, one sorcerer and one dk. Which I think should be a HUGE concern for ZOS.

It takes a long time to become a good tank and an even longer time if you have no help. There’s so many things you never think about unless you know already. That said, I don’t know who’s being referred to here. Some tanks help mentor others more than others, so I wouldn’t say they all have the same community value.

I also don’t think LC HM is… hard? Unless the problem is the last boss (which I have not done yet, but I do know the atros would suck). The first 2 HMs feel very similar to nonHM which, also with the speed people got the trifecta, made me think the trial is actually too easy.

boi_anachronism_

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

guarstompemoji wrote: »

Lost three buddies last week. These were trifecta trials tanks. Reasons given:
- Performance
- New trials are not fun from the tank pov (running hms). One specifically said, the atros in vLC hm just aren't enjoyable. They'd completed MM this last year.

These tanks had clears on their role for achievements such as Mind Mender, Swash, GS, and so on.

Oh man, I hear you!

Aussie player here and we play on ~250 ping with some of our NZ friends on 300+ ping. Normal, stable lag isn't a problem since you can adapt to it (particularly in PvE) but the rubberband ping where it goes above 2k and back again is a real problem. For dps it means your skill bar will grey out for a few seconds and your dps will drop unless you are on an arcanist.

I don't tank or heal in harder content but I hear and see it happen in our group supports. For healers it's worse as they may miss that burst heal.

However, for tanks it's definitely the absolute worst. Ranged taunts no longer work as desyc means they will hit the wrong target or not at all, and then the mini runs around and one-shots a number of dps who then get upset at the tank.They can't even weave in heavy attacks for sustain because the boss heavy attacks come at random times that is unrelated to the visual cue on the screen.

Some days we have to scrap our trial run because our tank cannot stay logged into the game.

Tell me about it. One of my tri teams is all aussie and nz guys. Tank dc'ed at 40% on navi. 36/36 at dc. 26 odd min run. Cost us a gs.

moderatelyfatman

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

guarstompemoji wrote: »

Lost three buddies last week. These were trifecta trials tanks. Reasons given:
- Performance
- New trials are not fun from the tank pov (running hms). One specifically said, the atros in vLC hm just aren't enjoyable. They'd completed MM this last year.

These tanks had clears on their role for achievements such as Mind Mender, Swash, GS, and so on.

Oh man, I hear you!

Aussie player here and we play on ~250 ping with some of our NZ friends on 300+ ping. Normal, stable lag isn't a problem since you can adapt to it (particularly in PvE) but the rubberband ping where it goes above 2k and back again is a real problem. For dps it means your skill bar will grey out for a few seconds and your dps will drop unless you are on an arcanist.

I don't tank or heal in harder content but I hear and see it happen in our group supports. For healers it's worse as they may miss that burst heal.

However, for tanks it's definitely the absolute worst. Ranged taunts no longer work as desyc means they will hit the wrong target or not at all, and then the mini runs around and one-shots a number of dps who then get upset at the tank.They can't even weave in heavy attacks for sustain because the boss heavy attacks come at random times that is unrelated to the visual cue on the screen.

Some days we have to scrap our trial run because our tank cannot stay logged into the game.

Tell me about it. One of my tri teams is all aussie and nz guys. Tank dc'ed at 40% on navi. 36/36 at dc. 26 odd min run. Cost us a gs.

I remember once my prog group knocked over Lokk quickly and decided to make it a vSS speedrun only for the main tank to dc and not be able to log in again for 10 mins after a full windows restart.

moderatelyfatman

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Are you ok? Genuine question.

I am absolutely fine. How about you?

Well.... my favourite MMO is unplayable, my main class (stamden) has been a joke for the last 2 years and most of my friends are playing other games.

TheMajority

sarahthes wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Endgame's in a rough place right now and that's a fact. Endgame tanks teach near endgame tanks, who teach the tanks one 'level' below them in a kind of trickle down effect. The fewer tanks there are near the top, the fewer the sources of knowledge. I've run with tanks who are self taught/who taught each other without that type of incoming knowledge. They're all pretty terrible, tbh.

all I ever got told when asking for info on how to tank by endgame tanks was "go watch a tutorial, I don't have time for you" don't think I ever experienced this trickling

LadyGP

Another raid group falling apart because of performance @ZOS_Kevin

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658253/zos-massive-spike-in-ping-lag-in-recent-days-what-gives#latest

sarahthes

TheMajority wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

Endgame's in a rough place right now and that's a fact. Endgame tanks teach near endgame tanks, who teach the tanks one 'level' below them in a kind of trickle down effect. The fewer tanks there are near the top, the fewer the sources of knowledge. I've run with tanks who are self taught/who taught each other without that type of incoming knowledge. They're all pretty terrible, tbh.

all I ever got told when asking for info on how to tank by endgame tanks was "go watch a tutorial, I don't have time for you" don't think I ever experienced this trickling

They don't help beginners. So what I've seen is experienced scorepushers will help new scorepushers. New scorepushers/experienced trifecta tanks will help people new to trifectas and maybe HMs. HM tanks will help vet tanks. Etc.

The biggest problem I see is usually when vet tanks who haven't been mentored try to help other vet tanks. A lot of misinformation gets shared.

g0thiCiCecReaM

In my 20 years of playing MMOs, I've never seen one collapse because 3 people quit.
Every game is dying since the day it was born....

guarstompemoji

Feedback is important. In trial groups, pressure is placed on the supports, especially.

In the three groups where these tanks left, one grp is surviving, two are disbanding. One ran workshops with me to teach new players, so we will not be running those.

No one left out of spite. They were hard decisions, and tanks of this nature know these decisions impact those around them.

Hope folks are okay.

I make a point of keeping in touch w friends I make along the way. It's a good habit and, I believe, an important one.

El_Borracho

So make Hard Modes not hard?

The performance issues are real though. VLC has more lag and desyncs than I have seen in any trials. Its borderline Cyrodiil bad. DCs in the the Orphic Shattered Shard are a problem [PS NA].

Xandreia_

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

Doooooom is neeeeaaar. We will all die! AAAAAaaaargh.

Sorry, but these guys that left never taught me anything as we never met. And my guess is that the vast majority of players never met these three guys.

In the very very rare opportunities where I ran a pug with an endgame tank guy he and I concentrated of completing the trial/dungeon and rarely did I ever receive any advice. And why should I? As I play a dd or heal and my role is different from a tank.

This does not mean that these three guys did not teach others but these others will most likely have been part of their respective guild and trial group.

I don't know. I have the feeling that there is a campain there trying to convince ESO players to leave a pretendedly sinking ship. I on my side believe it well afloat. Of course certain issues need to be addressed by the devs asap. But I don't see any doom at the moment.

im guessing you dont run hm trials? good tanks for hard mode content are hard to find having 3 leave the game over performance is kinda big tbh

guarstompemoji

El, I would say make them more enjoyable amd rewarding. These tanks weren't having issues with completing the content. It was enjoyment.

Someone with MM doesn't say, "This is too difficult, I'm out." They say, "Am I having fun?" I can verify all three were doing well in the content they were in.

The disconnects magify this, as well.

Ask players what makes tanking or supporting enjoyable. And, improve the servers. That would be my advise to zos.

Soarora

guarstompemoji wrote: »

El, I would say make them more enjoyable amd rewarding. These tanks weren't having issues with completing the content. It was enjoyment.

Someone with MM doesn't say, "This is too difficult, I'm out." They say, "Am I having fun?" I can verify all three were doing well in the content they were in.

The disconnects magify this, as well.

As for what makes tanking or supporting enjoyable, that would be my advise to zos.

This angle I can understand and I agree the new trial isn’t very fun. I think I only like it because it’s the first trial I’ve really lead. There’s no difficulty hurdle to master as far as I’ve experienced (again, haven’t done knot HM, but I have done the other 2). The first boss is just hold block and taunt like 2-3 things. The miniboss is stand there. The second boss is (OT) taunt a guy and sit and wait until execute and then run in a circle and (MT) hold block and sometimes move. The last boss is run and sometimes hold block and do a very easy don’t even need to make a call tank swap mechanic. There’s no skills required like LoS or stacking enemies (unless you stack Xoryn) or moving to a location quickly (like kiting fire bombs in 1st boss SE).

abkam

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

I'm not sure I can agree with you on that. There's a Discord group where you can find the best players in this game. Yes, they’re all there. Yet, I’ve never, ever seen a more toxic community than that one. So, I really can't agree when you say, 'When you lose talented players, you lose opportunities for knowledge and skills that help newer players progress through content,' because they don't help anyone.

sarahthes

abkam wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

I'm not sure I can agree with you on that. There's a Discord group where you can find the best players in this game. Yes, they’re all there. Yet, I’ve never, ever seen a more toxic community than that one. So, I really can't agree when you say, 'When you lose talented players, you lose opportunities for knowledge and skills that help newer players progress through content,' because they don't help anyone.

There's a lot of smaller communities that many of them are active in. That's where they benefit the community the most.

Most of the toxicity is with their peers, it's not towards newer players.

abkam

sarahthes wrote: »

abkam wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

When you lose talented players, you lose more opportunities for knowledge and skills that help coming players progress through content. Make of that what you will.

I'm not sure I can agree with you on that. There's a Discord group where you can find the best players in this game. Yes, they’re all there. Yet, I’ve never, ever seen a more toxic community than that one. So, I really can't agree when you say, 'When you lose talented players, you lose opportunities for knowledge and skills that help newer players progress through content,' because they don't help anyone.

There's a lot of smaller communities that many of them are active in. That's where they benefit the community the most.

Most of the toxicity is with their peers, it's not towards newer players.

How can smaller communities help new players?
If there are only a few veteran players, they often don't have enough members to tackle more serious content. They can assist new players with normal trials or by helping defeat world bosses. However, over time, they will get tired and give up.

In a slightly larger community, newer or less experienced players might still struggle to find a spot because, let’s face it, most of experienced players prefer not to run content with "new players." And let’s not even mention new players using Oakensoul. These players often just want to learn the mechanics and understand the game while playing more safely with Oakensoul. Yet, veteran players tend to exclude them from more serious content.
They even do it just to run one veteran trial. There's no point in hiding it. Every day, you can find experienced players in group finder leading pug trials, and you’ll often see notices like: "Oakensoul = kick" or "less than 100k DPS = kick.

So, I’ll say it again: they don’t help anyone.