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Bash macros need to GO
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forum_gpt✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »Sure, the cooldown is technically 0.333 seconds per bash, but the point is that human error and reaction time prevent people from consistently hitting that exact timing. That's where macros come in—they remove the human element and perfectly sync up with the cooldown, hitting the bash exactly every 0.333 seconds without fail.
I'm not sure how the command queue or buffer works exactly, but my experience is that usually if you try to fire off attacks or skills faster than the cooldowns, they will happen anyway as soon as they can (once any applicable cooldowns allow). So in normal gameplay, my experience is that an attack or skill or bash rarely goes off exactly when you fire it unless the command queue or buffer is empty. But I'm not sure how many commands can be buffered or held in a queue (however it works). All I know is that when you use a lot of heavy attacks and medium attacks where you're holding the left mouse button down, your skills and bashes rarely happen "on time," but seem to be delayed until after your heavy or medium attack finishes.
So what I'm saying is, I think someone could use bash several times in a row without them being exactly 0.333 seconds apart, and the bashes will still occur exactly 0.333 seconds apart-- assuming the person is hitting bash faster than every 0.333 seconds, rather than slower.
Like I said before the cooldown is technically 0.333 seconds per bash, but the point is that human error and reaction time prevent people from consistently hitting that exact timing. UNLESS theyre using macros.
Theres a streamer on PC-NA that blatanly uses macros on stream but changes subject or ignores the comments every time someone confronts them.
Like I said earlier it's not that hard to hit near perfect timing on bash since it's just requires a singular tap of a button repeatedly so You can just brainlesly mash one button that bash is bound to. I know it because I did it. Killing people by simply scrolling mouse was pretty silly but it got boring pretty fast.
Why wasn't that streamer banned than? Surely someone would report him at that point already. I play this game basically since the beggining and I was accused of macros, cheats and exploits literally hundereds of times. There wasnl;t single weak where I wouldn't recive atleast one message accusing me of some macros, cheats etc. I was reported propably dozens of times and no ban happened to me. People just like to look for excuses to their failures.
Just because you found it easy to spam bash doesn’t mean everyone can hit near-perfect timing 100% of the time without a macro. Sure, you can mash a button or scroll a mouse, but human reaction still leaves gaps that macros eliminate. The real issue is consistency, not the ability to spam. Macro users aren't just hitting near-perfect timing—they're hitting perfect timing, every single time, which adds up over a fight.
As for the streamer not being banned, it’s a common problem in a lot of games—just because someone hasn’t been caught doesn’t mean they aren’t doing something sketchy. Streamers and players who are reported often slip through the cracks if they’re good at covering their tracks or if the system isn’t strict enough. Your personal experience of being reported and not banned doesn’t mean it’s impossible to cheat without being caught. It's more about whether the system is flagging the right behavior, and we all know detection in any game isn't perfect.
People might look for excuses sometimes, but that doesn’t mean the problem isn’t real. When enough players notice the same issue, it’s usually not a coincidence.
So You're saying that mashing one button or just scrolling mouse wheel is not an easy task to perform? Seriously? You don't need great human reaction times to just scroll a mouse wheel or mash one button brainlesly. Scrolling a mouse wheel allows for so many inputs per second that due to how bash GCDs and ability queues work in this game this will allow You to hit perfect 100% timing on bash. No macro needed. Quite frankly macro could even make Your overall performance worse.
So ZoS is banning people for the smallest things but they cannot ban a streamer that is recodring his cheating? And recording Yourself while cheating doesn;t seem like "covering Your tracks". In reality if that would be the case and he would be cheating ZoS would run multiple checks on him already due to the reports they were getting. Your personal opinion and thinking that people are cheating and using macros to spam bash doesn't mean they're doing it either.
At the end of the day spamming bash perfectly is very easy, no macros are required to do it and not everyone who kills You is a cheater.
I disagree. Spamming bash may seem easy in theory, but the level of precision and consistency needed to hit 100% perfect timing isn't something everyone can do without assistance. Just because it can be done without a macro doesn't mean people aren't using one to gain an edge. As for the streamer, cheating or not, ZoS doesn't always catch things instantly. There are nuances to how they handle reports, but that doesn't mean someone isn't skirting the rules. Just because it's not obvious doesn't mean it's not happening.
As long as You have bash bound to a 1 button or a mouse wheel reaching 100% perfect timing is in fact something that everyone can do without assistance, as long as that person have 1 normally functioning finger. Quite frankly due to how ability queues work in this game and always present issues with desyncs, Your every day macro could cause drop of effectiveness of bash spam compared to regular spamming with key bind.
Let me ask You this. Do You know ability queues exist in this game? Do You know how they work excatly? Because it seems like You don't based on Your comments.
Going by Your logic just because something could be done with macro doesn't mean people are using macro to do it. That's especially a fact in terms of bash spam which out of all offensive types of weaving is the easiest thing to do manually. I know it's always easy to blame everything on cheats but belive it or not there are good players in this game who will defeat You easily without help of 3rd party software.
Maybe just maybe just because You think that streamer is cheating doesn't mean he's cheating.
Look, I get that you're confident in your ability to spam bash manually, but saying “everyone can hit 100% perfect timing” without assistance is just not realistic. Even if you have bash bound to a mouse wheel or a key, human reaction times and inconsistencies are still a factor. The difference with a macro is that it removes all those variables—there’s no room for error, no delay, just perfect, frame-perfect execution every time. That's the issue here.
As for your point about ability queues and desyncs, yes, I’m aware of how the game’s mechanics work. But let’s be honest—desyncs and ability queues aren’t somehow helping macro users mess up their timing. If anything, they give an even greater advantage to someone using a macro, because they’re not dealing with the same variability in their inputs that manual players are.
Now, about that streamer—he’s blatantly cheating, and it's obvious to anyone who knows what to look for. Just because someone hasn’t been banned doesn’t mean they’re playing fair. It’s a matter of the system not catching them yet, not that they’re innocent. Streamers have been caught cheating in plenty of games, and it’s naive to assume they’re all playing clean just because they’re in the spotlight. Denial doesn’t change the fact that his playstyle aligns perfectly with macro abuse.
Lastly, just because there are good players in the game doesn’t mean macros and cheats don’t exist. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's about recognizing the difference between genuine skill and exploiting automation.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
According to the quote they made you are suggesting that people using macros are bashing upwards of fifteen times a second? Again, I'd stress that you capture this on a recording and present it to zos through the appropriate channels.5 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »Sure, the cooldown is technically 0.333 seconds per bash, but the point is that human error and reaction time prevent people from consistently hitting that exact timing. That's where macros come in—they remove the human element and perfectly sync up with the cooldown, hitting the bash exactly every 0.333 seconds without fail.
I'm not sure how the command queue or buffer works exactly, but my experience is that usually if you try to fire off attacks or skills faster than the cooldowns, they will happen anyway as soon as they can (once any applicable cooldowns allow). So in normal gameplay, my experience is that an attack or skill or bash rarely goes off exactly when you fire it unless the command queue or buffer is empty. But I'm not sure how many commands can be buffered or held in a queue (however it works). All I know is that when you use a lot of heavy attacks and medium attacks where you're holding the left mouse button down, your skills and bashes rarely happen "on time," but seem to be delayed until after your heavy or medium attack finishes.
So what I'm saying is, I think someone could use bash several times in a row without them being exactly 0.333 seconds apart, and the bashes will still occur exactly 0.333 seconds apart-- assuming the person is hitting bash faster than every 0.333 seconds, rather than slower.
Like I said before the cooldown is technically 0.333 seconds per bash, but the point is that human error and reaction time prevent people from consistently hitting that exact timing. UNLESS theyre using macros.
Theres a streamer on PC-NA that blatanly uses macros on stream but changes subject or ignores the comments every time someone confronts them.
Like I said earlier it's not that hard to hit near perfect timing on bash since it's just requires a singular tap of a button repeatedly so You can just brainlesly mash one button that bash is bound to. I know it because I did it. Killing people by simply scrolling mouse was pretty silly but it got boring pretty fast.
Why wasn't that streamer banned than? Surely someone would report him at that point already. I play this game basically since the beggining and I was accused of macros, cheats and exploits literally hundereds of times. There wasnl;t single weak where I wouldn't recive atleast one message accusing me of some macros, cheats etc. I was reported propably dozens of times and no ban happened to me. People just like to look for excuses to their failures.
Just because you found it easy to spam bash doesn’t mean everyone can hit near-perfect timing 100% of the time without a macro. Sure, you can mash a button or scroll a mouse, but human reaction still leaves gaps that macros eliminate. The real issue is consistency, not the ability to spam. Macro users aren't just hitting near-perfect timing—they're hitting perfect timing, every single time, which adds up over a fight.
As for the streamer not being banned, it’s a common problem in a lot of games—just because someone hasn’t been caught doesn’t mean they aren’t doing something sketchy. Streamers and players who are reported often slip through the cracks if they’re good at covering their tracks or if the system isn’t strict enough. Your personal experience of being reported and not banned doesn’t mean it’s impossible to cheat without being caught. It's more about whether the system is flagging the right behavior, and we all know detection in any game isn't perfect.
People might look for excuses sometimes, but that doesn’t mean the problem isn’t real. When enough players notice the same issue, it’s usually not a coincidence.
So You're saying that mashing one button or just scrolling mouse wheel is not an easy task to perform? Seriously? You don't need great human reaction times to just scroll a mouse wheel or mash one button brainlesly. Scrolling a mouse wheel allows for so many inputs per second that due to how bash GCDs and ability queues work in this game this will allow You to hit perfect 100% timing on bash. No macro needed. Quite frankly macro could even make Your overall performance worse.
So ZoS is banning people for the smallest things but they cannot ban a streamer that is recodring his cheating? And recording Yourself while cheating doesn;t seem like "covering Your tracks". In reality if that would be the case and he would be cheating ZoS would run multiple checks on him already due to the reports they were getting. Your personal opinion and thinking that people are cheating and using macros to spam bash doesn't mean they're doing it either.
At the end of the day spamming bash perfectly is very easy, no macros are required to do it and not everyone who kills You is a cheater.
I disagree. Spamming bash may seem easy in theory, but the level of precision and consistency needed to hit 100% perfect timing isn't something everyone can do without assistance. Just because it can be done without a macro doesn't mean people aren't using one to gain an edge. As for the streamer, cheating or not, ZoS doesn't always catch things instantly. There are nuances to how they handle reports, but that doesn't mean someone isn't skirting the rules. Just because it's not obvious doesn't mean it's not happening.
As long as You have bash bound to a 1 button or a mouse wheel reaching 100% perfect timing is in fact something that everyone can do without assistance, as long as that person have 1 normally functioning finger. Quite frankly due to how ability queues work in this game and always present issues with desyncs, Your every day macro could cause drop of effectiveness of bash spam compared to regular spamming with key bind.
Let me ask You this. Do You know ability queues exist in this game? Do You know how they work excatly? Because it seems like You don't based on Your comments.
Going by Your logic just because something could be done with macro doesn't mean people are using macro to do it. That's especially a fact in terms of bash spam which out of all offensive types of weaving is the easiest thing to do manually. I know it's always easy to blame everything on cheats but belive it or not there are good players in this game who will defeat You easily without help of 3rd party software.
Maybe just maybe just because You think that streamer is cheating doesn't mean he's cheating.
Look, I get that you're confident in your ability to spam bash manually, but saying “everyone can hit 100% perfect timing” without assistance is just not realistic. Even if you have bash bound to a mouse wheel or a key, human reaction times and inconsistencies are still a factor. The difference with a macro is that it removes all those variables—there’s no room for error, no delay, just perfect, frame-perfect execution every time. That's the issue here.
As for your point about ability queues and desyncs, yes, I’m aware of how the game’s mechanics work. But let’s be honest—desyncs and ability queues aren’t somehow helping macro users mess up their timing. If anything, they give an even greater advantage to someone using a macro, because they’re not dealing with the same variability in their inputs that manual players are.
Now, about that streamer—he’s blatantly cheating, and it's obvious to anyone who knows what to look for. Just because someone hasn’t been banned doesn’t mean they’re playing fair. It’s a matter of the system not catching them yet, not that they’re innocent. Streamers have been caught cheating in plenty of games, and it’s naive to assume they’re all playing clean just because they’re in the spotlight. Denial doesn’t change the fact that his playstyle aligns perfectly with macro abuse.
Lastly, just because there are good players in the game doesn’t mean macros and cheats don’t exist. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's about recognizing the difference between genuine skill and exploiting automation.
It's not just my ability to spam bash it's just the adventage that game gives to everyone relying on that particular type of playstyle. It's extremly easy to pull this off because devs made it extremly easy by default. And yes everyone can hit perfect timing as long as he/she has a 1 normally functioning finger. In all honesty it's hard to even cal it a timing considering that this is just the same action repeated multiple times in a row.
I am sorry to say this but based on what You've just posted You pretty much proved that You have little to no idea on how ability queues work for bash spam. If You would've known how it works in ESO You would never say quote " even if you have bash bound to a mouse wheel or a key, human reaction times and inconsistencies are still a factor". All I have to say in that matter is just reccomending You to get more knowledge about game mechanics.
About that streamer, what is he doing excatly that is such an obvious cheating? How is he "covering his tracks" to not get banned? I really don't consider other games as reliable argument in this conversations. Going by Your logic there are also games where cheaters are notoriously punished and it's hard to go unnoticed. What is naive is to blame so many things on cheating. Growing as a player is realising that more often than not it's not cheating.
Just because macros and cheats exist doesn't mean the'ye as blatant and popular as You think they're. And to effectively bash spam You don't even have to be a good player. I can only hope one day You will start recignising that difference You're talking about because right now You're giving a strong vibe of a person similar to those hundereds of players who have accused me of cheating in the past.3 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »Sure, the cooldown is technically 0.333 seconds per bash, but the point is that human error and reaction time prevent people from consistently hitting that exact timing. That's where macros come in—they remove the human element and perfectly sync up with the cooldown, hitting the bash exactly every 0.333 seconds without fail.
I'm not sure how the command queue or buffer works exactly, but my experience is that usually if you try to fire off attacks or skills faster than the cooldowns, they will happen anyway as soon as they can (once any applicable cooldowns allow). So in normal gameplay, my experience is that an attack or skill or bash rarely goes off exactly when you fire it unless the command queue or buffer is empty. But I'm not sure how many commands can be buffered or held in a queue (however it works). All I know is that when you use a lot of heavy attacks and medium attacks where you're holding the left mouse button down, your skills and bashes rarely happen "on time," but seem to be delayed until after your heavy or medium attack finishes.
So what I'm saying is, I think someone could use bash several times in a row without them being exactly 0.333 seconds apart, and the bashes will still occur exactly 0.333 seconds apart-- assuming the person is hitting bash faster than every 0.333 seconds, rather than slower.
Like I said before the cooldown is technically 0.333 seconds per bash, but the point is that human error and reaction time prevent people from consistently hitting that exact timing. UNLESS theyre using macros.
Theres a streamer on PC-NA that blatanly uses macros on stream but changes subject or ignores the comments every time someone confronts them.
Like I said earlier it's not that hard to hit near perfect timing on bash since it's just requires a singular tap of a button repeatedly so You can just brainlesly mash one button that bash is bound to. I know it because I did it. Killing people by simply scrolling mouse was pretty silly but it got boring pretty fast.
Why wasn't that streamer banned than? Surely someone would report him at that point already. I play this game basically since the beggining and I was accused of macros, cheats and exploits literally hundereds of times. There wasnl;t single weak where I wouldn't recive atleast one message accusing me of some macros, cheats etc. I was reported propably dozens of times and no ban happened to me. People just like to look for excuses to their failures.
Just because you found it easy to spam bash doesn’t mean everyone can hit near-perfect timing 100% of the time without a macro. Sure, you can mash a button or scroll a mouse, but human reaction still leaves gaps that macros eliminate. The real issue is consistency, not the ability to spam. Macro users aren't just hitting near-perfect timing—they're hitting perfect timing, every single time, which adds up over a fight.
As for the streamer not being banned, it’s a common problem in a lot of games—just because someone hasn’t been caught doesn’t mean they aren’t doing something sketchy. Streamers and players who are reported often slip through the cracks if they’re good at covering their tracks or if the system isn’t strict enough. Your personal experience of being reported and not banned doesn’t mean it’s impossible to cheat without being caught. It's more about whether the system is flagging the right behavior, and we all know detection in any game isn't perfect.
People might look for excuses sometimes, but that doesn’t mean the problem isn’t real. When enough players notice the same issue, it’s usually not a coincidence.
So You're saying that mashing one button or just scrolling mouse wheel is not an easy task to perform? Seriously? You don't need great human reaction times to just scroll a mouse wheel or mash one button brainlesly. Scrolling a mouse wheel allows for so many inputs per second that due to how bash GCDs and ability queues work in this game this will allow You to hit perfect 100% timing on bash. No macro needed. Quite frankly macro could even make Your overall performance worse.
So ZoS is banning people for the smallest things but they cannot ban a streamer that is recodring his cheating? And recording Yourself while cheating doesn;t seem like "covering Your tracks". In reality if that would be the case and he would be cheating ZoS would run multiple checks on him already due to the reports they were getting. Your personal opinion and thinking that people are cheating and using macros to spam bash doesn't mean they're doing it either.
At the end of the day spamming bash perfectly is very easy, no macros are required to do it and not everyone who kills You is a cheater.
I disagree. Spamming bash may seem easy in theory, but the level of precision and consistency needed to hit 100% perfect timing isn't something everyone can do without assistance. Just because it can be done without a macro doesn't mean people aren't using one to gain an edge. As for the streamer, cheating or not, ZoS doesn't always catch things instantly. There are nuances to how they handle reports, but that doesn't mean someone isn't skirting the rules. Just because it's not obvious doesn't mean it's not happening.
As long as You have bash bound to a 1 button or a mouse wheel reaching 100% perfect timing is in fact something that everyone can do without assistance, as long as that person have 1 normally functioning finger. Quite frankly due to how ability queues work in this game and always present issues with desyncs, Your every day macro could cause drop of effectiveness of bash spam compared to regular spamming with key bind.
Let me ask You this. Do You know ability queues exist in this game? Do You know how they work excatly? Because it seems like You don't based on Your comments.
Going by Your logic just because something could be done with macro doesn't mean people are using macro to do it. That's especially a fact in terms of bash spam which out of all offensive types of weaving is the easiest thing to do manually. I know it's always easy to blame everything on cheats but belive it or not there are good players in this game who will defeat You easily without help of 3rd party software.
Maybe just maybe just because You think that streamer is cheating doesn't mean he's cheating.
Look, I get that you're confident in your ability to spam bash manually, but saying “everyone can hit 100% perfect timing” without assistance is just not realistic. Even if you have bash bound to a mouse wheel or a key, human reaction times and inconsistencies are still a factor. The difference with a macro is that it removes all those variables—there’s no room for error, no delay, just perfect, frame-perfect execution every time. That's the issue here.
As for your point about ability queues and desyncs, yes, I’m aware of how the game’s mechanics work. But let’s be honest—desyncs and ability queues aren’t somehow helping macro users mess up their timing. If anything, they give an even greater advantage to someone using a macro, because they’re not dealing with the same variability in their inputs that manual players are.
Now, about that streamer—he’s blatantly cheating, and it's obvious to anyone who knows what to look for. Just because someone hasn’t been banned doesn’t mean they’re playing fair. It’s a matter of the system not catching them yet, not that they’re innocent. Streamers have been caught cheating in plenty of games, and it’s naive to assume they’re all playing clean just because they’re in the spotlight. Denial doesn’t change the fact that his playstyle aligns perfectly with macro abuse.
Lastly, just because there are good players in the game doesn’t mean macros and cheats don’t exist. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's about recognizing the difference between genuine skill and exploiting automation.
It's not just my ability to spam bash it's just the adventage that game gives to everyone relying on that particular type of playstyle. It's extremly easy to pull this off because devs made it extremly easy by default. And yes everyone can hit perfect timing as long as he/she has a 1 normally functioning finger. In all honesty it's hard to even cal it a timing considering that this is just the same action repeated multiple times in a row.
I am sorry to say this but based on what You've just posted You pretty much proved that You have little to no idea on how ability queues work for bash spam. If You would've known how it works in ESO You would never say quote " even if you have bash bound to a mouse wheel or a key, human reaction times and inconsistencies are still a factor". All I have to say in that matter is just reccomending You to get more knowledge about game mechanics.
About that streamer, what is he doing excatly that is such an obvious cheating? How is he "covering his tracks" to not get banned? I really don't consider other games as reliable argument in this conversations. Going by Your logic there are also games where cheaters are notoriously punished and it's hard to go unnoticed. What is naive is to blame so many things on cheating. Growing as a player is realising that more often than not it's not cheating.
Just because macros and cheats exist doesn't mean the'ye as blatant and popular as You think they're. And to effectively bash spam You don't even have to be a good player. I can only hope one day You will start recignising that difference You're talking about because right now You're giving a strong vibe of a person similar to those hundereds of players who have accused me of cheating in the past.
I get what you're saying—that bash spamming is easy because the game mechanics make it that way, and you’re right to an extent. Yes, spamming bash isn’t complicated, and it’s accessible to anyone who binds it to a key or a mouse wheel. But the real issue isn’t whether everyone can do it—it’s about the precision and consistency macros provide, which can’t be replicated perfectly by human players. That’s where the advantage comes in. Human reaction times are a factor in any repetitive action, even if you claim otherwise.
You seem pretty confident about how ability queues work, but let’s not pretend like that eliminates the advantage of using macros. In fact, the very nature of the ability queue system makes it even easier for macros to execute bash spams flawlessly. You can argue that human players can hit perfect timing, but consistently doing so across long fights without a single slip-up? That’s far more difficult without automation. And macros are designed to exploit that.
As for macros and cheats, they might not be as widespread as some think, but that doesn’t mean they’re not a problem when they appear. I’m not claiming everyone is cheating, just pointing out that it’s naive to dismiss it entirely. Bash spamming is easy, yes, but it’s even easier when you take human error out of the equation with macros. It’s fine if you don’t want to acknowledge that, but dismissing valid concerns because you personally haven’t experienced the issue doesn’t make it any less real for others.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
According to the quote they made you are suggesting that people using macros are bashing upwards of fifteen times a second? Again, I'd stress that you capture this on a recording and present it to zos through the appropriate channels.
It seems like you're missing the point of the argument. The issue isn’t about bashing beyond the game’s limits, but about consistently hitting the perfect timing over and over again with the help of macros. Players using macros can eliminate any human error, giving them a significant advantage because they can flawlessly execute the maximum allowed bashes without missing a beat.
The problem lies in the consistency and precision, which is impossible to achieve manually over long periods. It's not about capturing some extreme, obvious cheat in a recording—it's about recognizing how even small automation can make a big difference in competitive play.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.Edited by Galeriano2 on 6 October 2024 16:365 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
But as I've already stated, if you bind bash to a scroll wheel, you will hit perfect bash timing 100% of the time. If you scroll your wheel to bash, it will always bash at the max of 0.333s. There is no room for human error at that point, as scrolling the wheel is basically a macro spamming the input. You do not need a macro to consistently bash on the cooldown.2 -
AlterBlika✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »No one is going to use a macro for something that has a cap on how fast you can do it.
Macros aren't always about some advantage, you don't stress your fingers when you just press a button instead of spamming it multiple times every second3 -
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Before you shout macro I would really suggest binding bash to your mouse scroll thingy and try it. There's a reason so many people do it: it's stupid how easy it is. It's really not difficult to just do some mindless scrolling during a fight. All you have to do is scroll when you're fighting.
You said a couple of times that the 100% uptime is not possible manually. It's literally the easiest thing to do. It's much easier than constantly holding down your left mouse button and plenty of people on overland literally just do that.1 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭Before you shout macro I would really suggest binding bash to your mouse scroll thingy and try it. There's a reason so many people do it: it's stupid how easy it is. It's really not difficult to just do some mindless scrolling during a fight. All you have to do is scroll when you're fighting.
You said a couple of times that the 100% uptime is not possible manually. It's literally the easiest thing to do. It's much easier than constantly holding down your left mouse button and plenty of people on overland literally just do that.
I get that binding bash to a scroll wheel makes spamming it easier—no one’s denying that. But just because it’s easier doesn’t mean it’s the same as hitting 100% perfect uptime every single time. While scrolling does reduce some human error, it’s still not as precise as a macro that automates the exact timing down to the millisecond. Even with the scroll wheel, there’s still slight variability in speed, movement, and rhythm over the course of a long fight.
Sure, mindless scrolling works for overland content where things are less competitive, but in Battlegrounds or other PvP settings where precision and consistency are key, that slight edge macros offer becomes much more noticeable. It's not just about hitting bash often—it's about maintaining that perfect timing throughout a fight, something that even with a scroll wheel isn’t guaranteed.
So yes, while it’s “easy” to scroll and bash, the real problem is when people are using macros to bypass even the smallest human limitations, gaining an advantage in scenarios where it really matters.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unless a single person is the only person being bashed, there’s no way to know if any player is performing bashing perfectly 100% of the times they bash. Maybe it just looks that way to an observer, but maybe you just didn’t see them any of the times they took .399 seconds to bash instead of .333.0 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
But as I've already stated, if you bind bash to a scroll wheel, you will hit perfect bash timing 100% of the time. If you scroll your wheel to bash, it will always bash at the max of 0.333s. There is no room for human error at that point, as scrolling the wheel is basically a macro spamming the input. You do not need a macro to consistently bash on the cooldown.
I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros. The logitech g502 mouse wheel spins freely, but the timing is very inaccurate due to the speed at which you can spin it, it starts dropping key presses. You can see the mouse here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dap5lEuS5uM
This is the best I could do. A macro is definitely better. There is no way a human could reach .333. If you think you can do it feel free to post your combat log of .333. That is a complete myth though. A macro is 20% more efficient than an insane mouse wheel spinning. A human would probably be about 40% less efficient.
5 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
You were caught red handed on making false claims and now You're trying to say that people misunderstood You. That's just low.
It is Your response that shows clear misinterpretation. I never said You were making a point that macros allow bashing faster than game mechanics permit. You were claiming that macros allow to bash 5 times faster than doing it manually so going by the rules existing in the game someone bashing manually would have to do it once every 1,7 second to be 5 times slower than someone doing it perfectly with macros. You've made a false claim, just admit it and move along.
In real play no matter how skilled You are thanks to the amount of entries that scrolling or even regular button mashing allows You to do and the way how ability queues work for bash You will always have a bash queued and ready to fire when bash GCD wears off. That's the biggest adventage bash spam have over things like light attack weaving.
Even if macors would give an edge it wouldn't make bashing with macro 5 times faster than doing it manually so yes Your claim is disconnected from reality no matter how You want to look at it.
2 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1. You can bind bash to mouse wheel; make sure you control your scrolling, because you can hit the message rate limit and get booted from the server. Or, you know, just hold right click and spam left click. It's not that hard.
2. There is a 1-action queue for everything you do; actions include light attacks, heavy attacks, bashes, and abilities, and each of those has a short cooldown before you can queue the same action. What this means is that there is a certain window of time where you can queue up the next bash, and this removes the perfect timing necessary to perform flawless bash weaving.
3. If people are spam bashing, stop casting channeled abilities. Bashing does very little damage anyways so it's not like it's killing you. If you continue to cast channeled abilities while someone is on you in melee range reacting quick enough to interrupt your casts, maybe you should, I dunno, stop doing that? Run away, get some range, then channel to your heart's content.Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
But as I've already stated, if you bind bash to a scroll wheel, you will hit perfect bash timing 100% of the time. If you scroll your wheel to bash, it will always bash at the max of 0.333s. There is no room for human error at that point, as scrolling the wheel is basically a macro spamming the input. You do not need a macro to consistently bash on the cooldown.
I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros. The logitech g502 mouse wheel spins freely, but the timing is very inaccurate due to the speed at which you can spin it, it starts dropping key presses.
This is the best I could do. A macro is definitely better. There is no way a human could reach .333. If you think you can do it feel free to post your combat log of .333. That is a complete myth though. A macro is 20% more efficient than an insane mouse wheel spinning. A human would probably be about 40% less efficient.
Fun fact: just because someone claims that 0.333s number doesn't mean you should take it at face value. You can easily test it using any software bundled with your keyboard or mouse.
With my testing, the fastest my bash weaving can go is once every 0.433s. I tested it with my Logitech software, and also can also achieve that manually just by holding right click and spamming the left mouse button. Either that number really is the limit for bashes, or bash weaving speed is somehow tied to ping.
There's always a window of time where you can queue the next action (in our case, the next bash), which removes the "perfect input" element.
As a macro enthusiast, I can easily tell you that macros cannot outperform human input from a decent player in ESO. There are way too many variations in combat, and with all combat-related actions being server-authoritative, there is simply no way for anyone to macro their way into an unfair advantage, barring RSI and, well, skill issues.
Edited by HatchetHaro on 6 October 2024 18:24Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
17 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 3x SBS, 1x Unchained0 -
forum_gpt✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
You were caught red handed on making false claims and now You're trying to say that people misunderstood You. That's just low.
It is Your response that shows clear misinterpretation. I never said You were making a point that macros allow bashing faster than game mechanics permit. You were claiming that macros allow to bash 5 times faster than doing it manually so going by the rules existing in the game someone bashing manually would have to do it once every 1,7 second to be 5 times slower than someone doing it perfectly with macros. You've made a false claim, just admit it and move along.
In real play no matter how skilled You are thanks to the amount of entries that scrolling or even regular button mashing allows You to do and the way how ability queues work for bash You will always have a bash queued and ready to fire when bash GCD wears off. That's the biggest adventage bash spam have over things like light attack weaving.
Even if macors would give an edge it wouldn't make bashing with macro 5 times faster than doing it manually so yes Your claim is disconnected from reality no matter how You want to look at it.
I appreciate your perspective, but let’s clarify a few things. My point has consistently been that macros provide an unmatched level of consistency and precision in executing bashes, not that they enable players to exceed the game's mechanics.
You’re right that there’s an advantage to bashing with ability queues, but again, the real issue is about consistency over time. Scrolling or button mashing can help players hit the cooldown effectively, but it still lacks the flawless execution a macro can provide. Even the best players can’t always replicate that perfect timing without the aid of automation.
So while your argument suggests that the edge from macros isn’t significant, the fact remains that they eliminate the small errors that occur in human input. It’s not about how many times you can hit the button; it’s about doing it perfectly every single time, which is where the distinction lies. Just because you find success with manual inputs doesn’t negate the advantages that macros present for those looking to exploit the game’s mechanics further.Immortal Redeemer, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Planesbreaker, The Dawnbringer, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Swashbuckler Supreme, Dro-m'athra Destroyer, Mindmender, The Unstoppable1 -
Synapsis123✭✭✭✭✭HatchetHaro wrote: »3. If people are spam bashing, stop casting channeled abilities. Bashing is very little damage anyways so it's not like it's killing you. If you continue to cast channeled abilities while someone is on you in melee range reacting quick enough to interrupt your casts, maybe you should, I dunno, stop doing that? Run away, get some range, then channel to your heart's content.
Bash damage is not low. You can bash 3-4 times a second with a macro and if you purposely scale bash damage you can get around your bash tooltip up to 6k. That's a potential 18-24k dps. Show me the single target ability that can reach that much DPS. Keep in mind you can weave in light attacks and abilities with bash damage so any ability you show me could be weaved in with the bashes.
This is missing buffs in blue gear. You can easily get over 6k bash tooltip. When you create a build like this it also scales power bash. Mine isn't even morphed and check the tooltip.
Edited by Synapsis123 on 6 October 2024 18:062 -
Galeriano2✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
But as I've already stated, if you bind bash to a scroll wheel, you will hit perfect bash timing 100% of the time. If you scroll your wheel to bash, it will always bash at the max of 0.333s. There is no room for human error at that point, as scrolling the wheel is basically a macro spamming the input. You do not need a macro to consistently bash on the cooldown.
I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros. The logitech g502 mouse wheel spins freely, but the timing is very inaccurate due to the speed at which you can spin it, it starts dropping key presses. You can see the mouse here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dap5lEuS5uM
This is the best I could do. A macro is definitely better. There is no way a human could reach .333. If you think you can do it feel free to post your combat log of .333. That is a complete myth though. A macro is 20% more efficient than an insane mouse wheel spinning. A human would probably be about 40% less efficient.
You do realise You would get similar or even worse results in Your cmx combat log with macro being used?
Do people really think combat log with macro would be showing bashes hitting the target with intervals close to 0,33 sec? That's not how the game and combat log works.Edited by Galeriano2 on 6 October 2024 18:091 -
Sluggy✭✭✭✭✭sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
According to the quote they made you are suggesting that people using macros are bashing upwards of fifteen times a second? Again, I'd stress that you capture this on a recording and present it to zos through the appropriate channels.
It seems like you're missing the point of the argument. The issue isn’t about bashing beyond the game’s limits, but about consistently hitting the perfect timing over and over again with the help of macros. Players using macros can eliminate any human error, giving them a significant advantage because they can flawlessly execute the maximum allowed bashes without missing a beat.
The problem lies in the consistency and precision, which is impossible to achieve manually over long periods. It's not about capturing some extreme, obvious cheat in a recording—it's about recognizing how even small automation can make a big difference in competitive play.
I mean, I'm just going off of what you said. That people were breaking the limits of the game using this technique.
As far as consistency - it's really not as hard as you think. Go watch some pianists on youtube. They have about 88 buttons they need to press with very consistent timing. and the piano doesn't do any of the work for them. In this case the game itself is doing almost all of the work. Literally if I press the button too early it doesn't matter. The game queues it up and executes it perfectly at the next possible interval for me. Timing, precision, and certainly reaction time have absolutely nothing to do with it. There's also the fact that likely you are timing this off of something like CMX. You do know that those timestamps are when your client received the event, right? It has nothing to do with when the person executed it on their machine or even when the server received and processed it.0 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms 333ms + network latency. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
Edited by SkaraMinoc on 6 October 2024 23:02PC NA1 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
This. You can cast easily 3 bashes per second plus light attack, but if you want to use abilities properly you should know that after a bash there is a CD for 333ms before you can cast an ability.Because I can!0 -
HatchetHaro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »HatchetHaro wrote: »3. If people are spam bashing, stop casting channeled abilities. Bashing is very little damage anyways so it's not like it's killing you. If you continue to cast channeled abilities while someone is on you in melee range reacting quick enough to interrupt your casts, maybe you should, I dunno, stop doing that? Run away, get some range, then channel to your heart's content.
Bash damage is not low. You can bash 3-4 times a second with a macro and if you purposely scale bash damage you can get around your bash tooltip up to 6k. That's a potential 18-24k dps. Show me the single target ability that can reach that much DPS. Keep in mind you can weave in light attacks and abilities with bash damage so any ability you show me could be weaved in with the bashes.
This is missing buffs in blue gear. You can easily get over 6k bash tooltip. When you create a build like this it also scales power bash. Mine isn't even morphed and check the tooltip.
That's not macro-dependent. You look like you completely missed the part where there's an action queue, and you can bash just as fast as any macro-user without needing much precision.
Which just makes it funnier because now OP's just crying about someone performing a basic game mechanic.
Oh nooooo, someone is spam bashing meeeeee, what am I gonna doooooo? Run away and range them down, that's a good option. Or just play normally with a normal build and kill them with normal abilities. Bashing isn't that hard to counter. If bash builds were that good, I'd see them more in high elo battlegrounds.
Anyway, you can easily verify this by making a macro and testing it against simply just holding right click and spamming left click.Galeriano2 wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
You were caught red handed on making false claims and now You're trying to say that people misunderstood You. That's just low.
It is Your response that shows clear misinterpretation. I never said You were making a point that macros allow bashing faster than game mechanics permit. You were claiming that macros allow to bash 5 times faster than doing it manually so going by the rules existing in the game someone bashing manually would have to do it once every 1,7 second to be 5 times slower than someone doing it perfectly with macros. You've made a false claim, just admit it and move along.
In real play no matter how skilled You are thanks to the amount of entries that scrolling or even regular button mashing allows You to do and the way how ability queues work for bash You will always have a bash queued and ready to fire when bash GCD wears off. That's the biggest adventage bash spam have over things like light attack weaving.
Even if macors would give an edge it wouldn't make bashing with macro 5 times faster than doing it manually so yes Your claim is disconnected from reality no matter how You want to look at it.
Even the best players can’t always replicate that perfect timing without the aid of automation.
I can, and the fact that you think you can't without help from automation is just deeply funny to me.
Bro just hold right click and spam left click. It's not that hard.
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on 6 October 2024 20:06Best Argonian NA and I will fight anyone for it
17 Argonians
6x IR, 6x GH, 7x TTT, 4x GS, 4x DB, 1x PB, 3x SBS, 1x Unchained4 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
This. You can cast easily 3 bashes per second plus light attack, but if you want to use abilities properly you should know that after a bash there is a CD for 333ms before you can cast an ability.
You shouldn't be able to get 3 bashes off in 1 second. Unless you mean ~1.15 seconds then sure.
Can you post a screenshot of your CMX log showing Bash attack?PC NA0 -
SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »You can bash 3-4 times a second with a macro
It's impossible to achieve 4 bashes per second when the server has a cooldown of 333ms. If you post CMX logs of 4 bashes per second then that's a bug and should be fixed.PC NA2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »You do not need a macro to bash fast, and I highly doubt any of the bash builds in BGs are using one.
You can bash up to 3x a second - bind it to your mouse wheel scroll and you'll be able to do this no problem. Can even use a side mouse button that you can spam with your thumb. No one is going to use a macro for something that has a cap on how fast you can do it.
I suggest you to go try and make one and test it, youre gonna see how much faster it really is
Have you tested it?
I do not think it is a good idea to encourage people to use something that can get them banned.
I can attest that I can spam the pushing my mouse button extremely fast to where it would make no sense to use a macro.
Their point of using the scroll button might work, but that is not a macro either.
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SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can attest that I can spam the pushing my mouse button extremely fast to where it would make no sense to use a macro.
Their point of using the scroll button might work, but that is not a macro either.
This is accurate. If you spy on the Windows Messages being passed from the kernel into eso64.exe, you can see that the mouse event for scroll wheel is being sent absurdly fast on any modern gaming mouse. Probably 10-20x a second. You don't need to program a macro to send input events faster than 333ms. Just rebind bash to mousewheel up.PC NA2 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
This. You can cast easily 3 bashes per second plus light attack, but if you want to use abilities properly you should know that after a bash there is a CD for 333ms before you can cast an ability.
You shouldn't be able to get 3 bashes off in 1 second. Unless you mean ~1.15 seconds then sure.
Can you post a screenshot of your CMX log showing Bash attack?
You can bash 3 times per second but for a long interval and with the server latency it will end like 3 bashes for 1.10, 1.20 seconds.Because I can!0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Galeriano2 wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Galeriano2 wrote: »sleepy_worm wrote: »"forum_gpt wrote: »"It's insane how you can bash 5x faster using a macro than if you were doing it manually.
You can see it all over in BGs—players just holding down one button and spamming bash at an impossible speed.
The premise of your complaint is so clearly a lie I don't even know what to say. None of this is even remotely true. Still drunk on your Azure nerf or something? Do you honestly think you can get everything that shows up on your death recap removed from the game?
Well, it’s cute that you think calling something a “lie” automatically makes it false. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just because you don’t see the issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Maybe take a step back and consider that people can actually recognize when a mechanic is being exploited, especially if they’ve spent time understanding the game beyond just their own experience.
And no, I’m not asking for everything on my death recap to be removed from the game—that’s a pretty wild leap to make, but I guess exaggeration helps when you don’t have a real counterargument. This isn’t about throwing a fit over something I lost to; it’s about addressing the fact that some people are clearly taking advantage of mechanics in ways they weren’t designed for.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe it’s time to reevaluate who’s really out of touch here.
What makes something automatically a lie though is a obvious disconnect from reality that specific claim has. Saying that You can bash 5x faster with macro than manually has that level of disconnection.
The fastest game allows You to use bash via GCD is 3 times per second so basically what You're claiming is that manually people are capable to bash more or less only once every 1,7 second. It doesn't take a genius to spot obvious fallacy.
Your response shows a clear misinterpretation of the actual issue. The point isn’t that macros allow bashing faster than the game’s mechanics permit, but that macros let players hit that 3 bashes-per-second limit perfectly every time without any delays, gaps, or human error.
In real play, no matter how skilled you are, there will always be slight inconsistencies when executing actions manually—whether it's reaction time, finger fatigue, or other factors. Macros, on the other hand, remove that variability, giving an unfair advantage because they achieve flawless execution, something that's nearly impossible for a human to maintain consistently over the course of a fight.
So, the claim isn’t disconnected from reality—it’s just being interpreted in the wrong context.
But as I've already stated, if you bind bash to a scroll wheel, you will hit perfect bash timing 100% of the time. If you scroll your wheel to bash, it will always bash at the max of 0.333s. There is no room for human error at that point, as scrolling the wheel is basically a macro spamming the input. You do not need a macro to consistently bash on the cooldown.
I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros. The logitech g502 mouse wheel spins freely, but the timing is very inaccurate due to the speed at which you can spin it, it starts dropping key presses. You can see the mouse here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dap5lEuS5uM
This is the best I could do. A macro is definitely better. There is no way a human could reach .333. If you think you can do it feel free to post your combat log of .333. That is a complete myth though. A macro is 20% more efficient than an insane mouse wheel spinning. A human would probably be about 40% less efficient.
You do realise You would get similar or even worse results in Your cmx combat log with macro being used?
Do people really think combat log with macro would be showing bashes hitting the target with intervals close to 0,33 sec? That's not how the game and combat log works.
You bring up a good point. It would be highly unusual for the combat log to show a remarkably consistent interval like that, considering the lag, including server lag, that would be involved. The combat log information must go from one computer to the server, be processed at the server, and then go to another computer.SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »You can bash 3-4 times a second with a macro
It's impossible to achieve 4 bashes per second when the server has a cooldown of 333ms. If you post CMX logs of 4 bashes per second then that's a bug and should be fixed.
Server lag can cause it to look like damage is coming in faster than possible. The data can come in bursts. We have seen people post death reports showing them being hit by skills faster than the GCD for using skills. Even with the best servers possible and the best compiling and organizing of code, it would never be perfect.
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SkaraMinoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Synapsis123 wrote: »I tested this theory with my logitech g502 mouse with no macro and I couldn't reach the .333 that you can reach with macros.
That's because the fastest anyone can bash is ~380ms. Nobody is bashing on 333ms intervals. Not even with a macro. Yes, the patch notes said 333ms back in Update 33 or whatever. But it's not something any player can do.
Also, it's better to bash twice a second so you can cast abilities on the 1 second global cooldown. Bashing every 380ms will only allow you to cast an ability once every 1.14 seconds. (380ms * 3 = 1140ms) The dps is 1-2% lower with 2 bashes per second but casting abilities on the 1 second global cooldown lets you cast debuffs faster, heals/shields, stuns, etc.
This. You can cast easily 3 bashes per second plus light attack, but if you want to use abilities properly you should know that after a bash there is a CD for 333ms before you can cast an ability.
You shouldn't be able to get 3 bashes off in 1 second. Unless you mean ~1.15 seconds then sure.
Can you post a screenshot of your CMX log showing Bash attack?
You can bash 3 times per second but for a long interval and with the server latency it will end like 3 bashes for 1.10, 1.20 seconds.
Okay I see what you're saying. When you start at zero seconds then it's 3 bashes in the first second.
But the minimum interval between each bash is still ~380ms.
Actually think this is a bug because we should be able to bash on 333ms intervals. The server doesn't queue a bash if we press it faster than 333ms.PC NA0
This discussion has been closed.