How much DPS do you need to clear all content

alpha_synuclein

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

You can clear all content on vet with around 30k DPS (as measured on the trial dummy). The kicker there is that you need great, if not heroic support players (tanks and healers) to help you through some of the more difficult content with DPS that low. Basically, the lower you are on the DPS end of the spectrum, the greater the quality of the support players you need to help get you through. When it is like that, you are going to find in most instances that you will be finishing content on the more difficult end of the spectrum by just the skin of your teeth.

Good point. But if you are at the bare necessities level of dpsing you are probably going to play with supports that are at the lower end of performance as well. So you're gonna need to up your game at some point anyway.

SolarRune wrote: »

Not that I would want to do it, but to my understanding, as long as you are playing mechs, everything (including trial HMs) can cleared with about 55-60K - this is in trial performance not dummy humping performance

This does not apply to the latest HM's. Rockgrove and up will require more than 60k, even if you play mechs perfectly.

MudcrabAttack

A hard mode like Rockgrove is done in several sprints, where each dps would do at least around 90k-100k+ when they engage the boss and all the adds. The average dps at the end looks less than that because so much of the time is spent chasing the boss around. 90k dps works out fine if nobody dies the whole time, but the moment some players are dead and some people stop to resurrect, you can start to appreciate a few people pushing 150k making up the difference.

Even in a scenario with some deaths and resurrecting taking place, and a couple people constantly pushing 140k+, your group will wind up melting in lava by the time they’re at the top floor. For that matter it’s almost like you need a near perfect run to complete hard mode anyway, and when that’s happening, you might as well work on trifecta while you’re at it.

Sockermannen

Looking at trials, the absolute minimum you’d need would probably be around 50k assuming there are no DPS checks (like DSR reefs or SS portal).

This will however put immense pressure on your supports who have to endure more mechanics and damage than what would normally be experienced. Things will die alot slower, the number of adds increase and importance of good mechanical play becomes alot higher because a single misstake later on can reset a full 20 minute fight. Being a support in a trial with such low DPS is miserable.

Given how easy it is to do 80k+ these days guilds really have little to no reasons to settle for lower if they have the ability to choose so the requirements you’re gonna see from larger raid guilds tend to hover around there, my guilds on PCEU does.

TLDR; Absolute minimum ~50k
A more reasonable number for a faster and much smoother clear ~80k.

barney2525

How much do you need?

I think 2 1/2 bushel baskets full should do it.

Galeriano2

Pulling 80-90k on a trial dummy already puts someone in a bracket of having enough DPS to clear everything HMs included. Survivng in those HMs and following the mechanics is a different story though.

SolarRune

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

This does not apply to the latest HM's. Rockgrove and up will require more than 60k, even if you play mechs perfectly.

Looking at the maths - it is possible to complete Xalvakka - 8 DDs doing 56k over 9 mins with the total health of 238,036,672 (as mentioned on UESP) - it is technically possible to do it without doing more than 60K, but that is 56K over the fight not just when in battle. I did say I wouldn't want to and it is taking each floor pretty close to the max possible time you can spend on it - so no room for any error.

sarahthes

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

A hard mode like Rockgrove is done in several sprints, where each dps would do at least around 90k-100k+ when they engage the boss and all the adds. The average dps at the end looks less than that because so much of the time is spent chasing the boss around. 90k dps works out fine if nobody dies the whole time, but the moment some players are dead and some people stop to resurrect, you can start to appreciate a few people pushing 150k making up the difference.

Even in a scenario with some deaths and resurrecting taking place, and a couple people constantly pushing 140k+, your group will wind up melting in lava by the time they’re at the top floor. For that matter it’s almost like you need a near perfect run to complete hard mode anyway, and when that’s happening, you might as well work on trifecta while you’re at it.

The fight is so much easier with high DPS than with low or barely sufficient DPS. Half the adds don't even spawn, there's fewer blobs and shell phases...

To me, Rockgrove is one HM I would avoid unless you have high DPS.

Even Bahsei HM is easier with high DPS because you skip aboms (they stop spawning after she reaches 50% even if not all 7 have been summoned yet). Also, the portals ramp in difficulty the more you do. The third portal is just miserable compared to the first (which I have soloed... barely LOL I am still learning that technique) and even the 2nd.

Desiato

The DPS targets we share are just general best practices. In reality, there are dozens of significant factors that dictate success, and it's possible to compensate for low dps in many ways, sometimes through pure determination.

I've seen countless raid logs of groups finding a way to succeed despite breaking every good practice promoted by experienced players, including dps targets. Sometimes I go down an esologs.com rabbit hole and am amazed by the actual diversity that exists versus what I experience following the meta.

In my personal experience, sometimes the worst groups are those with 8 hungry, selfish parsers because they die by taking risks aggressively competing with each other and don't rez!

With all that said, a player who is capable of learning the rules well enough to become strong mechanically should also be able to dummy parse 85k without much effort by following the best known practices.

Nharimlur_Finor

With FPS and Ping bouncing all over the place for many players, DPS is a non-existent concept.

alpha_synuclein

SolarRune wrote: »

Looking at the maths - it is possible to complete Xalvakka - 8 DDs doing 56k over 9 mins with the total health of 238,036,672 (as mentioned on UESP) - it is technically possible to do it without doing more than 60K, but that is 56K over the fight not just when in battle. I did say I wouldn't want to and it is taking each floor pretty close to the max possible time you can spend on it - so no room for any error.

A lot of things seem possible theoreticly. My point was based on experience. Your math is correct, but I don't see it working in practice. Also, you're missing the fact that groups sitting at lower end of dps are usually not great with mechanics either.
In a lot of fights you might get a clear through persistence, but Xalvakka HM is not one of them.

JanTanhide

Libonotus wrote: »

Note, I am not asking what is preferred (120k DPS is probably a preference for speed runs) I am asking what is the bare minimum in DPS someone would need to clear content. Would 95-100k be able to do this?

Well, my single target dps on a non trial dummy is about 36K. I've never been able to get these super high DPS values I see posted all the time. I've done most content in the game easily with no problems and not dying. I've soloed every non DLC dungeon that has no block mechanics in Vet no death. I've soloed many DLC dungeons as well, most in Vet and no death.

The biggest thing I've seen for people not being able to do hard content is the player not moving out of red areas. Thinking a Healer is going to save you and just standing in Red and pounding away is not a good idea. Gotta move move move all the time and keep doing damage. I also run a fairly high amount of resistance. Try to get around 21K or more spell and physical resistances. Helps a lot! I usually don't run a shield and I don't use Pale Order.

So you can do hard core content with DPS like mine or even lower. Just gotta stay alive and follow mechanics.

Soarora

JanTanhide wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

Note, I am not asking what is preferred (120k DPS is probably a preference for speed runs) I am asking what is the bare minimum in DPS someone would need to clear content. Would 95-100k be able to do this?

Well, my single target dps on a non trial dummy is about 36K. I've never been able to get these super high DPS values I see posted all the time. I've done most content in the game easily with no problems and not dying. I've soloed every non DLC dungeon that has no block mechanics in Vet no death. I've soloed many DLC dungeons as well, most in Vet and no death.

The biggest thing I've seen for people not being able to do hard content is the player not moving out of red areas. Thinking a Healer is going to save you and just standing in Red and pounding away is not a good idea. Gotta move move move all the time and keep doing damage. I also run a fairly high amount of resistance. Try to get around 21K or more spell and physical resistances. Helps a lot! I usually don't run a shield and I don't use Pale Order.

So you can do hard core content with DPS like mine or even lower. Just gotta stay alive and follow mechanics.

You’ve never been able to get the super high DPS numbers because you’re not using the trial dummy. With 36k on a non trial dummy I would suggest trying the trial dummy, with that much DPS it’ll just take a few minutes. You’ll see you probably have much higher DPS than you think you do.

There are plenty of content that have hard DPS checks and even more that have soft DPS checks. Hard DPS checks of various levels appear in FV, MGF, RG HM, DSR, FL, SS, VH, and probably more. Soft DPS checks are everywhere but severity varies.

alpha_synuclein

JanTanhide wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

Note, I am not asking what is preferred (120k DPS is probably a preference for speed runs) I am asking what is the bare minimum in DPS someone would need to clear content. Would 95-100k be able to do this?

Well, my single target dps on a non trial dummy is about 36K. I've never been able to get these super high DPS values I see posted all the time.

Those high numbers are always from a trial dummy. Your comparing apples with oranges. Your way of testing is more accurate for solo builds though.

JanTanhide wrote: »

The biggest thing I've seen for people not being able to do hard content is the player not moving out of red areas. Thinking a Healer is going to save you and just standing in Red and pounding away is not a good idea. Gotta move move move all the time and keep doing damage. I also run a fairly high amount of resistance. Try to get around 21K or more spell and physical resistances. Helps a lot! I usually don't run a shield and I don't use Pale Order.

So you can do hard core content with DPS like mine or even lower. Just gotta stay alive and follow mechanics.

Playing in a group just the same as if you'd be in an instance alone is also a mistake. When you are not solo the "move, move, move" quite often changes to "stack, stack, stack". And stand still/keep position. Translating habits from solo play directly to group PVE is one of the reasons why starting groups struggle.

MorganaLaVey

JanTanhide wrote: »

Gotta move move move all the time.

Ha ha... As a main healer, when i read this, i want to push you off the highest cliff in orsinium. no offence
Please stand in front of the healer and when you need to move out of red areas, only go a few steps for/back-ward or yes, trust your healer to heal you through.