Splitting the queue via Solo/Group queues will kill the Battlegrounds population

StaticWave · October 1

ZOS needs to stop listening to these solo players and look at other PvP games for reference. In those games, there are only 2 main queues:

1) Casual queue
2) Competitive queue

Every single PvP game has operated on that principle and ignored the constant cries from solo players, and for good reason.

If you want to solo queue, expect to match against organized groups. That’s literally how every PvP game is lol. If you want to be competitive, start finding players and build a team with them. It’s that simple.

In ESO, that would be the 8v8 queue and 4v4 queue, respectively. There is no need to separate queues into solo vs group.

Jierdanit · October 1

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS needs to stop listening to these solo players and look at other PvP games for reference. In those games, there are only 2 main queues:

1) Casual queue
2) Competitive queue

Every single PvP game has operated on that principle and ignored the constant cries from solo players, and for good reason.

If you want to solo queue, expect to match against organized groups. That’s literally how every PvP game is lol. If you want to be competitive, start finding players and build a team with them. It’s that simple.

In ESO, that would be the 8v8 queue and 4v4 queue, respectively. There is no need to separate queues into solo vs group.

Just because a lot of other games have systems like that doesnt mean its a good system

If you want to play competitive in premade groups you should be willing to wait until you actually get another premade group to fight against. It can hardly be called competitive if most of your matches you are just stomping random groups.

And if the group queue would still take forever with the changes i guess that says enough about how many people actually want to competitively fight other premades.

licenturion · October 1

Going to post the same feedback here so solo battleground people feedback doesn't get drowned because of multiple threads about the topic.

I am very happy with the solo queue changes.

- Players who prefer to play in pre-made groups have the option
- Players who queue solo have also the option to play against other solo's who have the same potential synergy and communication handicaps.

This is fair matchmaking that wont chase me and an entire segment of fellow casual battlegrounders away.

Thank you for creating both options. Yeah some group pre-mades will be angry they don't get to stomp solo lobbies, but it will create a better environment for every type of player. If there wasn't a solo queue anymore I would have dropped the mode completely from my rotation anyway.

This issue can't be 'solved'. What they have now is the most balanced option for both parties.

If there is no solo queue, people like me just would stop doing battlegrounds and seeing the feedback from the past week, I am certainly not the only one. So less players wouldn't do queue times any favors. Especially because many of us would rather not play at all than being forced to play with premades. We solo battlegrounders have no impact on group queue times because we would not queue there.

On top of this there will be new rewards with the update so a certain type of player will surely try to organize themself to farm the system as efficiently as possible with solo players as casualty if ZOS let them.

licenturion · October 1

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS needs to stop listening to these solo players and look at other PvP games for reference. In those games, there are only 2 main queues:

1) Casual queue
2) Competitive queue

Every single PvP game has operated on that principle and ignored the constant cries from solo players, and for good reason.

If you want to solo queue, expect to match against organized groups. That’s literally how every PvP game is lol. If you want to be competitive, start finding players and build a team with them. It’s that simple.

In ESO, that would be the 8v8 queue and 4v4 queue, respectively. There is no need to separate queues into solo vs group.

This is simply not true. There are many games that have solo queues. Fortnite has it, Warzone has it, Apex has it, Overwatch doesn't not match pre-made stacks against solo's either in competitive. Every game that actually does not have this is a very miserable environment to play in.

Also I would rather wait 10 minutes to have a good close and fair match than have a match in 30 seconds where one side has to sacrifice themselves for quick queues and has zero fun because it results in another stomp. This will just turn off people and make them leave altogether. Just like XDefiant is bleeding to death because most players left because their matchmaking mantra is also 'anything goes'.

Joy_Division · October 1

I wonder how many of the complaints sent to ZOS about having to fight premade groups was actually the result of the player(s) thinking the other team was premade simply because its players were better/more experienced?

While I have my reservations about the new BGs, I do think ZOS finally added something to the game that should have been implemented a long, long time ago: a system for teams of 4 to quickly fight other teams of 4, without an unnecessary additional team running back a relic and ending the match in like 2 minutes. That it has rewards/leaderboards is all the better. ZOS seems really intent on making sure solos only fight solos: if that's the majority of the queing BG population, that's probably for the best. I would think with the lowering of needed population from 12 to 8, que length should be not nearly as problematic as with the 4v4v4 format.

I think it's counterintuitive to have organized groups in a supposed "casual" setting. That this is "beyond the scope" of update 44 is incredulous. The feedback ZOS received for allowing duos seemed perfectly reasonable. Unless some of the larger PvP guilds want to 8v8, that que will probably not be popular.

StaticWave · October 1

licenturion wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS needs to stop listening to these solo players and look at other PvP games for reference. In those games, there are only 2 main queues:

1) Casual queue
2) Competitive queue

Every single PvP game has operated on that principle and ignored the constant cries from solo players, and for good reason.

If you want to solo queue, expect to match against organized groups. That’s literally how every PvP game is lol. If you want to be competitive, start finding players and build a team with them. It’s that simple.

In ESO, that would be the 8v8 queue and 4v4 queue, respectively. There is no need to separate queues into solo vs group.

This is simply not true. There are many games that have solo queues. Fortnite has it, Warzone has it, Apex has it, Overwatch doesn't not match pre-made stacks against solo's either in competitive. Every game that actually does not have this is a very miserable environment to play in.

Also I would rather wait 10 minutes to have a good close and fair match than have a match in 30 seconds where one side has to sacrifice themselves for quick queues and has zero fun because it results in another stomp. This will just turn off people and make them leave altogether. Just like XDefiant is bleeding to death because most players left because their matchmaking mantra is also 'anything goes'.

Warzone and Fortnite are large scale battle grounds, not 4v4. Overwatch is 1 example. Team based FPS games and MOBA match pre mades against solos.

Splitting the queue would just make everyone wait longer. Also, queuing solo introduces the element of RNG into the equation. I’ve had games where I queued solo into a stacked team full of strong players, while my team has 3 PvErs lol….

StaticWave · October 1

Jierdanit wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS needs to stop listening to these solo players and look at other PvP games for reference. In those games, there are only 2 main queues:

1) Casual queue
2) Competitive queue

Every single PvP game has operated on that principle and ignored the constant cries from solo players, and for good reason.

If you want to solo queue, expect to match against organized groups. That’s literally how every PvP game is lol. If you want to be competitive, start finding players and build a team with them. It’s that simple.

In ESO, that would be the 8v8 queue and 4v4 queue, respectively. There is no need to separate queues into solo vs group.

Just because a lot of other games have systems like that doesnt mean its a good system

If you want to play competitive in premade groups you should be willing to wait until you actually get another premade group to fight against. It can hardly be called competitive if most of your matches you are just stomping random groups.

And if the group queue would still take forever with the changes i guess that says enough about how many people actually want to competitively fight other premades.

That is why there is an MMR system for that…

Organized groups naturally will have the highest MMR and will have already matched with similar groups.

Tcholl · October 1

To all ppl hoping for solo players to feed group queues: it will not happen. It is a matter of finding a way to feed players into BGs, rather than keeping the actual players there. Zos is changing the current BG system for a reason, since the vast majority of the player base does not play the content. Not even the PvPers, most of them play in cyro.

It doesn't matter what killed BGs or not. It's pretty clear by some comments here that what currently keeps a lot of players away from BGs is the possibility to face comped grouped in comms. This new solo queue modes are being celebrated by those players in the comments. Also, most of them have already stated that they wouldn't play BGs otherwise.

I play in cyro in ballgroups and just want an option to play solo sometimes. I am one of those that would ONLY queue for BGs, knowing I wouldn't have to deal with comped groups over there too.

In this case, you either change to survive or you die. BGs are adapting.

Thumbless_Bot · October 1

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS needs to stop listening to these solo players and look at other PvP games for reference. In those games, there are only 2 main queues:

1) Casual queue
2) Competitive queue

Every single PvP game has operated on that principle and ignored the constant cries from solo players, and for good reason.

If you want to solo queue, expect to match against organized groups. That’s literally how every PvP game is lol. If you want to be competitive, start finding players and build a team with them. It’s that simple.

In ESO, that would be the 8v8 queue and 4v4 queue, respectively. There is no need to separate queues into solo vs group.

Zos needs to listen to all of their players feedback, including yours. They've done that and here we are. You have your group queue which will take a nanosecond because there are soooo many groups actively participating in bgs and we have our solo queues which will take the usual 1-5 minutes to get. Then we all get to play the game we want.

I see no harm done here.

Aldoss · October 1

licenturion wrote: »

- Players who prefer to play in pre-made groups have the option
- Players who queue solo have also the option to play against other solo's who have the same potential synergy and communication handicaps.

What about us casual duo'ers?

What is our option?

On live, a coordinated, optimized 4-man has already proven that they are more than capable of decimating 4 other groups of casual duo'ers (the group size that 100% feeds the current group queue).

You're applauding ZOS not throwing you to the wolves while simultaneously applauding them throwing us to the wolves. GG I guess. You won the trolley problem.

SkaiFaith · October 1

Veteran PvPer in other games, only occasional PvPer in ESO here.
I just want to say that the words "8v8 solo queues" got me really excited and willing to try out more BGs, as a solo player myself!

I always had this problem in every game: doing great in FFA modes; doing great in group modes without premades; getting humiliated in group modes with premades since I am always solo.

I'm no expert about ESO PvP population but I think the changes will bring in some more people that wouldn't have participated before, so to me sounds nice.

Jierdanit · October 1

StaticWave wrote: »

That is why there is an MMR system for that…

Organized groups naturally will have the highest MMR and will have already matched with similar groups.

That would just basically make it impossible to actually get to the highest MMR without queueing as a group.
Which might be fine for you but sounds like pretty bad design to me.

StaticWave wrote: »

Warzone and Fortnite are large scale battle grounds, not 4v4. Overwatch is 1 example. Team based FPS games and MOBA match pre mades against solos.

Splitting the queue would just make everyone wait longer. Also, queuing solo introduces the element of RNG into the equation. I’ve had games where I queued solo into a stacked team full of strong players, while my team has 3 PvErs lol….

Splitting the queues might make people wait longer, but basically everyone i know would rather spend 2 or 3 minutes longer in solo queue than have a chance to get into a BG where they would get destroyed by a premade.
Solo players shouldnt be punished to make premades have a better time.

Jierdanit · October 1

Aldoss wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

- Players who prefer to play in pre-made groups have the option
- Players who queue solo have also the option to play against other solo's who have the same potential synergy and communication handicaps.

What about us casual duo'ers?

What is our option?

On live, a coordinated, optimized 4-man has already proven that they are more than capable of decimating 4 other groups of casual duo'ers (the group size that 100% feeds the current group queue).

You're applauding ZOS not throwing you to the wolves while simultaneously applauding them throwing us to the wolves. GG I guess. You won the trolley problem.

It would be better if you could queue for the "solo" 8v8 solo or with a duo, but ZOS said they were not capable of that atm.

Otherwise there is no better option, because ZOS has absolutely no way to determine if a group is casual or competitive.
If you want to play with a casual group your best option is going to be to queue for the casual 8v8 BGs.

MashmalloMan · October 2

Joy_Division wrote: »

I wonder how many of the complaints sent to ZOS about having to fight premade groups was actually the result of the player(s) thinking the other team was premade simply because its players were better/more experienced?

Funny enough, I've had countless interactions with team mates who got farmed, that claimed the other teams were premades even though we were in solo queue.

Same type of person that thinks everyone is hacking or breaking the 1s GCD.

Thumbless_Bot · October 2

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I wonder how many of the complaints sent to ZOS about having to fight premade groups was actually the result of the player(s) thinking the other team was premade simply because its players were better/more experienced?

Funny enough, I've had countless interactions with team mates who got farmed, that claimed the other teams were premades even though we were in solo queue.

Same type of person that thinks everyone is hacking or breaking the 1s GCD.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)

"According to the DSM-IV, rationalization occurs "when the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by concealing the true motivations for their own thoughts, actions, or feelings through the elaboration of reassuring or self serving but incorrect explanations"

It's part of the human condition. Some of us cannot accept reality so we make up our own.

Edit: I would only add that it's pretty apparent to me at least that one's performance is this game means a heck of a lot to some people who play it... like their self-worth or self-esteem rises and drops with their kdr... I do not know why but we should keep that in mind when people say things like the above.

taugrim · October 2

IreWorks wrote: »

p.s. remove all modes other than Deathmatch from 4v4. If people want to sit on a flag and hold block, let them do that in 8v8. Sitting on a flag and holding block does not make sense in a "competitive" mode. Please let us PvP in the competitive PvP mode.

Agree with that 100%. DM only for 4v4.

I doubt ZoS will agree.

React wrote: »

I think it should be three queues.

Solo 4v4 (ranked + mmr)
Group 4v4 (ranked + mmr)
Duo 8v8 (unranked + no mmr, maximum group queue size of two players).

I also think @React's proposal is the best solution considering all angles.

I understand the concern about having 4 queues, but I think the move to having just 2 teams per side, esp for 4v4, is going to make queues pop faster for premades compared to today, where you need 3 teams.

taugrim · October 2

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

There's barely a population for Battlegrounds as it is right now with a single queue.

Because real PvP is in Cyrodiil.

As someone else put it, I have no interest in joining a zerg, being zerged down, poor performance, or playing horse simulator. People have different interests, there's no such thing as "real PVP".

People keep talking about how increasing the queue options will kill BGs or reference the past changes to BG queues as proof of such, but don't look at the bigger picture.
If competitive is meant for premades apparently, why do you need a random solo to farm? That doesn't sound very competitive, although if that's really what you want, people who want to queue for that solo still can. Some people just want a match as soon a a possible and will queue for everything.

4v4 for 8 players, requires 4 less than Live's 12, 33% less. Assuming the population of premades remains the same, which it will probably increase, not decrease, this is at least 33% faster than before.

BGs have been revamped, better rewards, better leaderboard, better maps, no third partying.. just 2 teams, objective modes are designed in a way that forces teams to engage with each other vs running away. This undoubtedly will bring back players that have written BGs off, theoritically the population will rise.

Options are never a bad thing. Even if queue gets much worse, I would rather wait 5 extra minutes for a match I enjoy, vs an instant match that I hate.

I personally prefer solo queue, but I still prefer more competitive games with competent players. In the original version and many of the ideas floating around, I was told my preference didn't matter, go to 8v8 casual.. well I've seen what thats like and even if premades weren't allowed in there, it's a cluster****. At least in 4v4v4, one of those teams would focus on something else like the objective or couldn't stack 8 players worth of HOTs/Shields.

Equating past BG population size directly with the changing of the queues without also acknowledging major updates that may have pushed away players from the game is a false equivalancy. What I mostly remember is begrudgingly being forced to fight premades at first, then losing a DM only queue because of "population size", only for them to add it back later in a test that was conducted under poor conditions (I think New World launched). They came to the same same conclusion that they didn't want too many queues, forcing us again, to fight troll tanks and dedicated flag runners instead of actually fighting each other. Objective vs non objective players have been fighting about it ever since, breeding toxicity in game and on the forums, reducing the population even more, all because they took away our options... It seems they may have finally realized this lesson and less than 24h later we're trying to reverse it? I don't understand.

I think we should let this play out. This is a good starting point to see how things go, provide as many options as possible, reduce if necessary. I think solo 4v4 and group 4v4 are here to stay, 8v8 could be reduced from solo and group to duo, but that's just me. Even if 8v8 is dead most of the time, the option being there gives BG guilds the opportunity to queue 4x premades for some wacky matches.

Also, add random queues to help fill slots or at the very least allow us to queue all of them without forcing us to change our UI. If someone wants to queue that way, they can't complain when they get placed in a match that's less than ideal.

Agree with all of the points made here. Very insightful post.

MincMincMinc · October 2

Problem is player population. Nobody plays group que currently...so mmr literally doesnt matter if there are only at best 15 people qued. Don't even suggest having ranked vs unranked. We dont have enough players to choose one or the other period. Group vs solo que, 99% of people are solo que just to get their daily reward. The 1% that tries to group que, quits and joins solo que instead.

Why not use these daily rewards to drop players into the que which needs more pop. This would at least help dilute everything out and push the high mmr premades way up the ladder.

Ideally there would be a single que with a split at some point behind the scenes where high mmr solos and high mmr groups wont be matched together. So 0-70%mmr players are fair game solo+group together. 70%-100% mmr players are separated solo vs group que....but this separation would be seemless and unknown.

Miracle19 · October 3

Agreed. Splitting up que’s would show how naive the developers really are if it happens. It caused one of the largest if not the largest exodus in the games entire history.

The best solution IMO if solo players want a 4v4 is to have the following options.
4v4 - ranked(group)
4v4 - unranked(solo)
8v8 - unranked(group)

That gives the solo players what they want, but following general gaming competitive rules. Competitive anything goes, group, solo , however you want to que in. Competitive is never ever split up with group vs solo, because that is in fact not competitive. That’s RNG. Competitive should have exclusive rewards to make it appealing to play and actually want to do good and earn those exclusive rewards(titles, mounts, motifs etc) that can’t be earned any other way in the game. Imo this way, you can give everyone what they want, but also with incentive to participate in the new competitive 4v4 system.

Edit: also ranked should be DM only, pvp is about fighting and getting kills. DM only also makes it easier to have a true ranking system and MMR system. Unranked could be mixed game modes.

gariondavey · October 3

@ZOS_Kevin can you speak to the status on these topics?

points of concern for bg release
-leaderboard needs to be based off mmr, as the medal score system is not a fair metric for many reasons
-there are too many queues currently with 4. There should be 2 (solo/duo 8v8s no mmr, 4v4 group ranked) or max 3 (solo/duo 8v8s no mmr, 4v4 solo ranked, 4v4 group ranked)
-medals need a rework to be fair to necros and shielders, as well as healers
-the rounds/lives system has some serious flaws in ranked 4v4

note: if a duo queue for 8v8 is not possible for this patch release, solo queue for 8v8 would be best until you guys can figure out how to enable duo for that

licenturion · October 7

Miracle19 wrote: »

Agreed. Splitting up que’s would show how naive the developers really are if it happens. It caused one of the largest if not the largest exodus in the games entire history.

The best solution IMO if solo players want a 4v4 is to have the following options.
4v4 - ranked(group)
4v4 - unranked(solo)
8v8 - unranked(group)

That gives the solo players what they want, but following general gaming competitive rules. Competitive anything goes, group, solo , however you want to que in. Competitive is never ever split up with group vs solo, because that is in fact not competitive. That’s RNG. Competitive should have exclusive rewards to make it appealing to play and actually want to do good and earn those exclusive rewards(titles, mounts, motifs etc) that can’t be earned any other way in the game. Imo this way, you can give everyone what they want, but also with incentive to participate in the new competitive 4v4 system.

Edit: also ranked should be DM only, pvp is about fighting and getting kills. DM only also makes it easier to have a true ranking system and MMR system. Unranked could be mixed game modes.

U give everyone what they want except the casual solo queue people like me who just play battlegrounds sometimes (and a lot of other who reacted over the past weeks)

I just want a 8v8 solo guaranteed queue with varied game modes.

Oh well we will see what eventually goes live. But I will drop battlegrounds from my rotation if there isn't a 8v8 solo queue and I won't bother the PvP people anymore and go full PvE.

RomanRex · October 7

When I log a MOBA it’s to play a well designed game tailored to be a MOBA. ESO is not made for that and its imbalances (classes, sets, etc.) will always make battlegrounds unappealing to most players.

With the current state of ESO, almost no one logs in just to play PvP, especially not to queue for battlegrounds.

Siloing the queues is only going to make things worse for an already dwindling population.

Thumbless_Bot · October 7

RomanRex wrote: »

When I log a MOBA it’s to play a well designed game tailored to be a MOBA. ESO is not made for that and its imbalances (classes, sets, etc.) will always make battlegrounds unappealing to most players.

With the current state of ESO, almost no one logs in just to play PvP, especially not to queue for battlegrounds.

Siloing the queues is only going to make things worse for an already dwindling population.

False

There are a lot of us. You just don't see us because we're busy in bgs or cyro or ic. We climb out from under our respective rocks when we need to farm something for pvp.

If I could get all I needed in game from ovp sources I'd never touch pve and I think there are many like me.

LittlePinkDot · October 7

Urvoth wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

If having a group only queue will kill it, maybe people just aren't too thrilled with competing against players who treat BGs as raid groups.

At a certain point, maybe group queue BGs are the problem and not the other way around. If groups are relying on solo players to sacrifice themselves to the group queue in order to be effective, we should just do away with the group queues altogether.

Are you saying that you have 0 intention to ever group queue with anyone, ever, in the future of your playing this game, in a mode that you enjoy?

Because if that's true, then fine. I'm happy that you're happy.

However, if you ever see a future where you make a new friend, get a close friend to start playing this game that you love, or start playing this game with a significant other, then your quoted comment seems to actively work against future you.

We can have it all and now is/was the time to put pressure on ZOS to do it. It will be years before they devote this amount of resources to this system again.

The problem isn't the 2 or 3 people who occasionally group without any forthought for a BG.

The problem is the fully optimized 4 man groups who make the queue absolutely miserable for anyone who isn't equally optimized.

Y'all are happy with burning the entire game mode down if it means you getting to chat in group with some friends on occasion. You could also just go into cyrodil and do the same thing.

And again, if you need solo players to fill out your queue, maybe group queue isn't as popular as you want it to be.

And yeah, I have never queued into a BG with other people. Not once in the 6 years the game mode has existed. If I want to group up with friends for PVP, I go to cyrodil.

It's called competitive mode for a reason. The casuals should stick to 8v8 if they don't want a fight

Some competitive mode then. If it relies on throwing solo players into the meat grinder to be effective. Solo does not mean casual by the way.

No those solos you mentioned should not be there lol. They should find people to group up with and actually TRY to be competitive. There is the 8v8 for casual play.

Since when does competitive only mean premade groups?

That’s the nature of competitive pvp in general, but especially in eso and MMOs. So much of the PvP experience in the game is based around class and set interaction and group dynamics.

You can absolutely have a competitive experience in random groups too, it just relies more on the actual skill of the players than having organized broken builds.

No, it’s completely rng and down to what team doesn’t get the nb snipe bot or whichever team gets a healer, etc. Yes, better players can win sometimes but with even skill levels it comes down to matchmaking rng. This also isn’t a game where classes are competitively balanced to play solo. Some classes are significantly better at it than others, and other classes require actual team coordination to be effective.

You're over thinking it. Who cares about RNG, just play the hand you're dealt.

I'm only solo and you're trying to kick me out of 4x4 that has the most deathmatch. 8v8 sounds fun too, but there's games in it I don't usually want to play all the time.

RomanRex · October 8

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

When I log a MOBA it’s to play a well designed game tailored to be a MOBA. ESO is not made for that and its imbalances (classes, sets, etc.) will always make battlegrounds unappealing to most players.

With the current state of ESO, almost no one logs in just to play PvP, especially not to queue for battlegrounds.

Siloing the queues is only going to make things worse for an already dwindling population.

False

There are a lot of us. You just don't see us because we're busy in bgs or cyro or ic. We climb out from under our respective rocks when we need to farm something for pvp.

If I could get all I needed in game from ovp sources I'd never touch pve and I think there are many like me.

My experience is the opposite. I have played plenty of PvP, especially BG’s.

The % of this game who care about BG’s is probably single digits at max. The same handful of people over and over depending on server.

ESO isn’t a MOBA. BG’s don’t work well in this game and never will. At least not well enough that most players would be motivated to log in just to cue for them.

It’s like dev’s are cooks obsessed with preparing dinner in the kitchen of a sinking ship. It won’t save the ship regardless of how great the dinner looks.

Sootica · October 8

The current battleground population cannot sustainably support more than 2 queues. Splitting queues means devastatingly long queue times for us. I play from Australia, group queues will never pop during our evening (US early morning) hours - this means all bg populations are in solo queues, and there is usually only 1 (mixed mmr) and no more than 2 (one high mmr one low mmr) concurrent games. We know this, because we always have to wait for friends with similar mmr to come out of their match before our queues would pop.

The vast majority of grouped players are NOT coordinated or premades. Most are people who just want to queue with friends, with mixed levels of skills. These casual grouped players are under-represented on this forum, because bgs are not their sole focus. The fear of being wiped by an organised group is understandable, but the solution is not splitting the queue, but better matchmaking. Allowing mmr to only go up with time (as in the latest PTS change) will result in more biased matchmaking.

If 2 queues, then one for competitive and one for casual, as it was originally intended, is a sensible way to go.

Iuppiterr · October 8

StaticWave wrote: »

ZOS needs to stop listening to these solo players and look at other PvP games for reference. In those games, there are only 2 main queues:

1) Casual queue
2) Competitive queue

Every single PvP game has operated on that principle and ignored the constant cries from solo players, and for good reason.

If you want to solo queue, expect to match against organized groups. That’s literally how every PvP game is lol. If you want to be competitive, start finding players and build a team with them. It’s that simple.

In ESO, that would be the 8v8 queue and 4v4 queue, respectively. There is no need to separate queues into solo vs group.

I disagree, if you look at other genres (were population in PvP isint a real problem) like MOBAs (most foremost League of Legends) you have a LOT of different queues.

You have Quickplay to just instandly go to play, you have competitive were you can only play solo or duo, you have competitive to play with a group and you have another casual mode that works the exact same as the competitive queues but you can queue with as much people as you want.

So i am a believer that its all a population issue right now and we have to see how it will go. Let them cook for once (please only here, take them the balance-change-spoon away please) and see what happens. Whatever will happen, it will not be worse than it is right now i think