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What is the intended counterplay to "ball groups" in PVP?
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GimpyPorcupine✭✭✭✭✭Unpopular take incoming. I think ball groups are great, and I almost never am in one. I think that a coordinated group should absolutely be able to run over the zergs. Only coordinated groups should be able to take out other coordinated groups; whether that's done with siege, or specialized "ball-buster" squads, or head-on by another BG is entirely up to you.
To the OP and all others, do you also believe you should be able to PUG vCR+3?
Another poster mentioned guerrilla warfare, and this is absolutely spot on. Do a little bit of research on LGOP (little groups of paratroopers) in WW2 after the botched drops on D-Day, or just watch Saving Private Ryan for a quick intro.
Remember that the BG can only be in one place at one time, and while they will absolutely control that area, the rest of the map is vulnerable. In XBNA GH I usually see DC and EP zergs and AD BGs; when you see them, go somewhere else. Resource cap their home keeps to break transit lines, or play ding-***-ditch by flagging their home keeps, and then di di mau before they show up. They're there to kill zerglings, and if you make them waste their time chasing ghosts and not earning AP, they'll get demoralized and log off.
Problem is that a lot of the Cyro pop forgets that it's basically a board game with some fighting and act as if it's just a larger Battleground Death Match.
8-hr/day casual gamer on Xbox NA. 20 Characters, all DC, all Level 50. +2400CP2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've done ball groups. I quit playing them because it was mind numbingly boring.
Everyone comps into a build.
Follow the leader.
Find a defensible position. Cast HOTs. Cast Shields. Light attack until everyone has ultimate. Push forward and bomb. Kill a few. Move back to position and start over.
It's follow the leader with a rotation of 2-3 skills + light attacks.
It isn't 4D chess.
"Ball groups should beat Zergs."
No.
"Comp groups should not die to 2 players."
No.
Ball Groups have inherent advances over zergs, and small scale comp groups have inherent advantages over one or two players. That doesn't mean it should be a given victory. Every player and group size should have the option to counter with the possibility of success every other play style.
Oh the amount of complaints I've heard/read over the years against bombers because a bunch of people were gathered in one spot and went boom. Oh the cries from ball groups because 5 bombers ruined their good time.
Every playstyle should have a weakness. 12 tanks stacking their individually crappy bombs has no real predator. You can get lucky with Azure. Siege doesn't work. They can eat every piece of siege you shoot at them or they just go to another tower.
Siege should be more powerful. Scattershot should be changed from increasing damage taken to having a damage multiplier for total enemies hit.I drink and I stream things.10 -
MedicInTheWild✭✭✭Congratulations ZOS, if much of this PTS patch goes live as it is, your player base will continue to shrink. You might get some spikes during events--holidays or free play--but the overall pop will continue to dwindle b/c of your ineptitude, heavy-handedness when it comes to overnerfing, and refusal to listen to anyone but ball group players. Thanks for all the fish.
I agree, they always overnerf the stuff that counters ball groups. Im not saying they need to nerf ball groups into the ground but Ive said it before that they should not be able to out heal 20+ while being sieged with meatbags and coldfire and walk away.
One day in the near future it will only be ballgroups staring at each other with nothing to do but PVDoor in between.
Medic
All platforms and servers5 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.3 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DrSlaughtr wrote: »I've done ball groups. I quit playing them because it was mind numbingly boring.
Everyone comps into a build.
Follow the leader.
Find a defensible position. Cast HOTs. Cast Shields. Light attack until everyone has ultimate. Push forward and bomb. Kill a few. Move back to position and start over.
It's follow the leader with a rotation of 2-3 skills + light attacks.
It isn't 4D chess.
"Ball groups should beat Zergs."
No.
"Comp groups should not die to 2 players."
No.
Ball Groups have inherent advances over zergs, and small scale comp groups have inherent advantages over one or two players. That doesn't mean it should be a given victory. Every player and group size should have the option to counter with the possibility of success every other play style.
Oh the amount of complaints I've heard/read over the years against bombers because a bunch of people were gathered in one spot and went boom. Oh the cries from ball groups because 5 bombers ruined their good time.
Every playstyle should have a weakness. 12 tanks stacking their individually crappy bombs has no real predator. You can get lucky with Azure. Siege doesn't work. They can eat every piece of siege you shoot at them or they just go to another tower.
Siege should be more powerful. Scattershot should be changed from increasing damage taken to having a damage multiplier for total enemies hit.
In the open world, they will just run the ball over you and burn the siege. While defending a keep, there isn't enough space on the walls to even put a dent in them. Of course, skilled coordinated groups should have a natural advantage, but this is completely unbalanced, so people avoid them. For some people, that means avoiding PVP, even though they might otherwise enjoy it.
I wish ZOS would do some focus groups to better understand their players. Not like the old class rep system, but like randomly selecting some relatively new players, six months to 1 year of logging on pretty regularly, and doing a Zoom call to ask some real questions about their experiences. Do they craft in the game? Why not? Do they do dungeons? Trials? Why not? Have you tried it? What was your experience? Do you PVP? Why not?
I got a survey related to Gold Road, and it was terrible. Even if players take the time to fill it out, the questions were so bad, I don't see how the survey could be of any value.3 -
Major_Toughness✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?PC EU > You6 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »People play the game they way they want. Ball groups, small scale, duels, etc.
If two 12 person groups want to all be 60k hp permablock tanks and each group stand on one of two flags, take keeps and engage in zero combat, then that's how they want to play.
It is up to you to either engage or not. If you choose to engage then it is up to you to play the game and figure out how to counter that play style. The tools available to combat these teams should be fair. Zos position is that ab is not fair because there is no counter play.
I choose to not engage, which I feel is the best strategy, because I do not want to spend my time trying to burn down these types of groups.
I do the same thing when I encounter enemies I know are wearing, using broken sets and or tactics. I disengage because I don't want to play that game
"Don't play the game" is not a viable answer to these groups. Azureblight is. ZOS's possition that there is not counterplay to the current live state of Azureblight is unhinged because the counterplay is obvious and simple: don't mindlessly and obliviously pixel stack on other players. This was aparently something too complicated for ballgroups to grasp and so they cried for nerfs to the only thing that actually was counterplay to their abusive and exploitative (if not outright bug abusing) play style.
Players have every right to mindlessly pixel stack, as you put it, because that's how they want to enjoy their pvp experience. Who are you to tell others how they should play?
No one said don't play the game. If you want to engage in that part of the game then it is up to you to figure out a way to do so. Ab isn't it because there is no counter play.... per zos... I thought I was pretty clear about that.
There are what, 18 keeps, 6 outposts and 3 towns in cyro? If the ball groups are at one, move to another... or engage... up to you... totally 100% up to you... but if you engage figuring out a way to fairly compete with very organized ball groups isnyour burden that you chose by engaging. It's no one else's problem to fix.
Just for the record, I think ball groups are the single worst part of the entire pvp experience. I completely detest their presence. But they have every right to be there.Edited by Thumbless_Bot on 25 September 2024 21:510 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Edited by ForumSavant on 25 September 2024 21:161 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People like to make a narrative that not wanting ball groups means not wanting organized play, and I think often it's intentional to dilute the argument and people take the bait to just keep arguing and not point out the correct context.
Nothing wrong with coordinating. It's the style of being so tightly stacked, targets are impossible to focus, and heals, buffs, and shields just stacking away much higher than any negative effects can match.
ZoS at this point probably realizes that's the real issue people have and have chose to condone it. If not; they are completely oblivious to reality of Cyrodiil ganeplay and have no clue. Either way; they're not going to change the situation5 -
gronoxvx✭✭✭✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Doesnt matter how much experience you have. What youre describing is the complete opposite on other servers. Come to xbox na or watch some streams and youll see bgs battling each other constantly.
The same game boxes that people keep posting on this forum that have such low populations that ZOS needs to implement cross play?
It will always be a mystery to me why people invest in a gamebox or expect to have a first class gaming experience using a game box. In my opinion the first major misstep ZOS made with ESO was releasing the game to game box.
PS is much different compared to xbox na. But please keep lugging us all under the "game box" banner.
Most people choose to invest in a console because its much cheaper than a pc. Is it that hard to understand?
But i digress, this thread is about ball groups, not your console v pc [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 27 September 2024 17:464 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Edited by CatoUnchained on 26 September 2024 08:4111 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Doesnt matter how much experience you have. What youre describing is the complete opposite on other servers. Come to xbox na or watch some streams and youll see bgs battling each other constantly.
The same game boxes that people keep posting on this forum that have such low populations that ZOS needs to implement cross play?
It will always be a mystery to me why people invest in a gamebox or expect to have a first class gaming experience using a game box. In my opinion the first major misstep ZOS made with ESO was releasing the game to game box.
PS is much different compared to xbox na. But please keep lugging us all under the "game box" banner.
Most people choose to invest in a console because its much cheaper than a pc. Is it that hard to understand?
But i digress, this thread is about ball groups, not your console v pc [snip]
"Cheaper" is the action word in you statement. People playing on consoles can not reasonably expect the same degree of performance as those who play on PC. There is a world of difference between gaming on PC and playing games on a console. This is problematic because ESO was designed to be played on PC.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 27 September 2024 17:473 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Tell me what a ballgroup is since 12 people all running cross heals apparently doesn't make a ballgroup. And the claim paleorc plays mainly solo... lol
It's amazing people like you think you are an authority or know what a ballgroup is better than other people when you make wildy inaccurate claims. Paleorc himself would tell you he plays mainly in a group, I haven't seen him play solo in a long time, do you even go to cyro?Edited by ForumSavant on 26 September 2024 12:162 -
Aurielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Tell me what a ballgroup is since 12 people all running cross heals apparently doesn't make a ballgroup. And the claim paleorc plays mainly solo... lol
It's amazing people like you think you are an authority or know what a ballgroup is better than other people when you make wildy inaccurate claims. Paleorc himself would tell you he plays mainly in a group, I haven't seen him play solo in a long time, do you even go to cyro?
He’s right though, Bobby’s guild is not a ballgroup. He runs an organized group that often focuses on taking out ballgroups. The difference between a ballgroup and an organized group boils down to this:
1. Intent
2. Movement
3. Rotation
4. Sets
The intent piece is the biggest part of the difference. Ballgroups primarily exist to fight unorganized zergs, make the most AP possible, and get “big pops” (hence fighting unorganized zergs). Fighting other ballgroups is seldom their goal, as doing so usually leads to stalemates. You do occasionally see them fighting one another, but it’s quite rare. Organized groups generally seek out good fights against other guild groups and ballgroups (but will also resort to fighting against unorganized zergs if there are no better alternatives).
Ballgroups have familiar patterns of movement designed to lure inexperienced or unorganized players into their traps. They use choke points to their advantage, along with baiting turn and burn tactics. They will often go into contested keeps without actually capturing the keep, prolonging the fight on the walls outside the keep or the stairs on the inner as long as possible to rack up the most AP possible and get the juiciest clips for their streams. They generally move in tight, straight, predictable lines and complete set damage rotations that typically revolve around Warden shalks, Proxy Det, Whirling Blades, and AOE ultimates. HoTs and shields are closely tracked in logs and are never permitted to fall off. Healers run coordinated sets that ensure maximum uptime on Barriers, various HoTs, and set buffs for the ball. Organized groups might borrow some of those tactics and appear ballgroup-like for that reason, but again, the intent is usually very different.
Sets used by ballgroups always involve at least one pull set (Rush of Agony, typically), and AOE damage sets that result in massive scaling damage when the squishy players they tend to target die in the middle of a zerg. Organized groups, on the other hand, typically have more build diversity that depends on the objective. If, for instance, killing ballgroups is the objective, they run Azureblight with other coordinated sets to maximize damage to tightly packed shield-stacking heal-spamming blobs. Well, they DID run Azureblight.
They’ll need to use something else now for ball-busting.
Edit: typo.
Edited by Aurielle on 26 September 2024 13:3714 -
Stafford197✭✭✭✭✭
Let’s not have the thread devolve into this weird “pc master gamer” stuff. I didn’t even know people still argued these things anymoreCatoUnchained wrote: »SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Doesnt matter how much experience you have. What youre describing is the complete opposite on other servers. Come to xbox na or watch some streams and youll see bgs battling each other constantly.
The same game boxes that people keep posting on this forum that have such low populations that ZOS needs to implement cross play?
It will always be a mystery to me why people invest in a gamebox or expect to have a first class gaming experience using a game box. In my opinion the first major misstep ZOS made with ESO was releasing the game to game box.
PS is much different compared to xbox na. But please keep lugging us all under the "game box" banner.
Most people choose to invest in a console because its much cheaper than a pc. Is it that hard to understand?
But i digress, this thread is about ball groups, not your console v pc [snip]
"Cheaper" is the action word in you statement. People playing on consoles can not reasonably expect the same degree of performance as those who play on PC. There is a world of difference between gaming on PC and playing games on a console. This is problematic because ESO was designed to be played on PC.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 27 September 2024 17:475 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »People play the game they way they want. Ball groups, small scale, duels, etc.
If two 12 person groups want to all be 60k hp permablock tanks and each group stand on one of two flags, take keeps and engage in zero combat, then that's how they want to play.
It is up to you to either engage or not. If you choose to engage then it is up to you to play the game and figure out how to counter that play style. The tools available to combat these teams should be fair. Zos position is that ab is not fair because there is no counter play.
I choose to not engage, which I feel is the best strategy, because I do not want to spend my time trying to burn down these types of groups.
I do the same thing when I encounter enemies I know are wearing, using broken sets and or tactics. I disengage because I don't want to play that game
"Don't play the game" is not a viable answer to these groups. Azureblight is. ZOS's possition that there is not counterplay to the current live state of Azureblight is unhinged because the counterplay is obvious and simple: don't mindlessly and obliviously pixel stack on other players. This was aparently something too complicated for ballgroups to grasp and so they cried for nerfs to the only thing that actually was counterplay to their abusive and exploitative (if not outright bug abusing) play style.
Players have every right to mindlessly pixel stack, as you put it, because that's how they want to enjoy their pvp experience. Who are you to tell others how they should play?
No one said don't play the game. If you want to engage in that part of the game then it is up to you to figure out a way to do so. Ab isn't it because there is no counter play.... per zos... I thought I was pretty clear about that.
There are what, 18 keeps, 6 outposts and 3 towns in cyro? If the ball groups are at one, move to another... or engage... up to you... totally 100% up to you... but if you engage figuring out a way to fairly compete with very organized ball groups isnyour burden that you chose by engaging. It's no one else's problem to fix.
Just for the record, I think ball groups are the single worst part of the entire pvp experience. I completely detest their presence. But they have every right to be there.
This is a joke right?
They absolutely do not have "every right" to mindlessly pixel stack, and the assertion that they do is absolutely wild. What we do have a right to is counters for every type of gameplay. Azureblight is the counter to pixel stacking and spamming shields. I don't care what you were "clear" about or not, you're simply wrong.
"Don't defend your keeps" is not a viable answer to ballgroups like you seem to think it is. We do have a right to viable defense strategies for our home keeps. Ballgroups do not have a right to be unkillable like you and they seem to think they do.Edited by acastanza_ESO on 26 September 2024 16:1910 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »People play the game they way they want. Ball groups, small scale, duels, etc.
If two 12 person groups want to all be 60k hp permablock tanks and each group stand on one of two flags, take keeps and engage in zero combat, then that's how they want to play.
It is up to you to either engage or not. If you choose to engage then it is up to you to play the game and figure out how to counter that play style. The tools available to combat these teams should be fair. Zos position is that ab is not fair because there is no counter play.
I choose to not engage, which I feel is the best strategy, because I do not want to spend my time trying to burn down these types of groups.
I do the same thing when I encounter enemies I know are wearing, using broken sets and or tactics. I disengage because I don't want to play that game
"Don't play the game" is not a viable answer to these groups. Azureblight is. ZOS's possition that there is not counterplay to the current live state of Azureblight is unhinged because the counterplay is obvious and simple: don't mindlessly and obliviously pixel stack on other players. This was aparently something too complicated for ballgroups to grasp and so they cried for nerfs to the only thing that actually was counterplay to their abusive and exploitative (if not outright bug abusing) play style.
Players have every right to mindlessly pixel stack, as you put it, because that's how they want to enjoy their pvp experience. Who are you to tell others how they should play?
No one said don't play the game. If you want to engage in that part of the game then it is up to you to figure out a way to do so. Ab isn't it because there is no counter play.... per zos... I thought I was pretty clear about that.
There are what, 18 keeps, 6 outposts and 3 towns in cyro? If the ball groups are at one, move to another... or engage... up to you... totally 100% up to you... but if you engage figuring out a way to fairly compete with very organized ball groups isnyour burden that you chose by engaging. It's no one else's problem to fix.
Just for the record, I think ball groups are the single worst part of the entire pvp experience. I completely detest their presence. But they have every right to be there.
This is a joke right?
They absolutely do not have "every right" to mindlessly pixel stack, and the assertion that they do is absolutely wild. What we do have a right to is counters for every type of gameplay. Azureblight is the counter to pixel stacking and spamming shields. I don't care what you were "clear" about or not, you're simply wrong.
"Don't defend your keeps" is not a viable answer to ballgroups like you seem to think it is. We do have a right to viable defense strategies for our home keeps. Ballgroups do not have a right to be unkillable like you and they seem to think they do.
Play the way you want. What part of that doesn't make sense?
Why is it mindless to ball groups? That's like saying it's mindless to solo. Who are you to say what is or isn't a valid play style? Just because you don't like it? If you don't you have the option to disengage. If you choose not to take that then that is totally up to you. For me personally, it would be mindless to go against a organized group when I am solo. But that's me and my opinion. It doesn't mean you don't have a right to do that. If you wish.
And I agree there should be counters. If you read my post, like, you know, actually read it, you would see that we agree.
Edited by Thumbless_Bot on 26 September 2024 17:490 -
Udrath✭✭✭✭Nerf snow treaders so it doesn’t benefit from any speed boost. Give the set extra stats like gaze of sithis.
All heals and shields shouldn’t stack and only one instance of an ability should exist at a time. The highest tooltip heal and shield should override all others.
AOE instant heals should give full heal to the caster and 1 other target, with all other targets receiving 50% of the heal (polar wind, battle prayer, etc.) Healers should be targeting who they want to heal.
Remove the 1000/1000 base spell and weapon damage. Lower base health, magicka, stamina by half and increase effectiveness of magicka and stamina to be just as good as stacking weapon/spell damage.
Increase base critical resistance.Edited by Udrath on 26 September 2024 18:244 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭ForumSavant wrote: »There should not be a direct counter to ballgroups. It just doesn't make sense. I don't understand why people think they should be able to kill groups of 12 people who run coordinating sets, comms, and move together. Yes, they are annoying to fight against, even when I'm in a group of 4 they will sometimes waste everything on smaller groups, but I don't expect to be able to have something that just makes them die because they are a bigger group.
As I've said a thousand times, everything that "counters" ballgroups ends up just being used by the ballgroup themselves and hurting smaller groups. Plaguebreak was by far the biggest nerf to ballgroups, and people still don't understand how much weight it pulls. It doesn't kill ballgroups, unless one of the players dies and blows everyone else up, but it prevents the use of purge in ballgroups which is huge. If the set didn't exist and balgroups were still running around spamming purge every 3 seconds, the huge debuff from oils, as well as other siege, would do nothing. They would just walk through everything with 0 problem. I watch a group that hides their bars for whatever reason and runs purge and I've seen them kill multiple people by accident while purging plague, the only instance in which purge is good is when they are sitting on a ram under oils and nobody is applying plague, but the second it's applied they stop using it or just blow themselves up.
There should be a direct counter to everything in PvP situations. Otherwise there is no ability for players to balance or defend against the player or group.10 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.7 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A lot of them, it's not because of the build they couldn't do anything outside of a ball. Last night came across a known participant of 1 dropping oil off the gatehouse of a keep. We already had gone through, and I went up and stood behind them laughing for at least 30 seconds with my friends whi were seiging inner at that point wondering who they think they're still dumping oil on before I hit them.
I'll give them credit they didn't die before getting off the oil with their high health but shortly after before making it to the stairs0 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »People play the game they way they want. Ball groups, small scale, duels, etc.
If two 12 person groups want to all be 60k hp permablock tanks and each group stand on one of two flags, take keeps and engage in zero combat, then that's how they want to play.
It is up to you to either engage or not. If you choose to engage then it is up to you to play the game and figure out how to counter that play style. The tools available to combat these teams should be fair. Zos position is that ab is not fair because there is no counter play.
I choose to not engage, which I feel is the best strategy, because I do not want to spend my time trying to burn down these types of groups.
I do the same thing when I encounter enemies I know are wearing, using broken sets and or tactics. I disengage because I don't want to play that game
"Don't play the game" is not a viable answer to these groups. Azureblight is. ZOS's possition that there is not counterplay to the current live state of Azureblight is unhinged because the counterplay is obvious and simple: don't mindlessly and obliviously pixel stack on other players. This was aparently something too complicated for ballgroups to grasp and so they cried for nerfs to the only thing that actually was counterplay to their abusive and exploitative (if not outright bug abusing) play style.
Players have every right to mindlessly pixel stack, as you put it, because that's how they want to enjoy their pvp experience. Who are you to tell others how they should play?
No one said don't play the game. If you want to engage in that part of the game then it is up to you to figure out a way to do so. Ab isn't it because there is no counter play.... per zos... I thought I was pretty clear about that.
There are what, 18 keeps, 6 outposts and 3 towns in cyro? If the ball groups are at one, move to another... or engage... up to you... totally 100% up to you... but if you engage figuring out a way to fairly compete with very organized ball groups isnyour burden that you chose by engaging. It's no one else's problem to fix.
Just for the record, I think ball groups are the single worst part of the entire pvp experience. I completely detest their presence. But they have every right to be there.
This is a joke right?
They absolutely do not have "every right" to mindlessly pixel stack, and the assertion that they do is absolutely wild. What we do have a right to is counters for every type of gameplay. Azureblight is the counter to pixel stacking and spamming shields. I don't care what you were "clear" about or not, you're simply wrong.
"Don't defend your keeps" is not a viable answer to ballgroups like you seem to think it is. We do have a right to viable defense strategies for our home keeps. Ballgroups do not have a right to be unkillable like you and they seem to think they do.
Play the way you want. What part of that doesn't make sense?
"Play the way you want" doesn't mean at all what you seem to think it means. Once again "just disengage" = "don't defend keeps" = "don't play", when that is your answer for how to deal with a group it is an indication of a balance issue and, the response is just straight wrong headed.
2 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.
What are some ballgroups on PC/NA then?0 -
Antrox41✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Uhhhhh no....... Paleorc is not solo, he hasn't been solo in years, he will occasionally be but he primarily now plays in a group. LoM IS a coordinated ballgroup, idk what kind of definition you are basing yours off of but it seems to be inherently wrong. Bobbys group is just a bunch of pugs said to build blight or some random meta set and follow him around, they are not coordinated in anyway nor have ever been, and also the only reason they attack other groups is because his entire group runs blightseed, matter of fact he usually sits around the faction because his group alone cannot even handle fighting a ballgroup half the time. Lastly, most ballgroups DO fight eachother, what makes you think they don't?ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.
What are some ballgroups on PC/NA then?
Indriks, LoM, Fake News, Adrestria, Enchiladas, 3.5, SLAYER, BONED, Barcodes, Xans Army, Army Of The Covenant, Wolves Of Fenris, Jaegers, Kids With Issues, Nefarrius 51, Wolves of Evermore, F-Tier.
Prob more that im not remembering.Edited by Antrox41 on 26 September 2024 22:202 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Uhhhhh no....... Paleorc is not solo, he hasn't been solo in years, he will occasionally be but he primarily now plays in a group. LoM IS a coordinated ballgroup, idk what kind of definition you are basing yours off of but it seems to be inherently wrong. Bobbys group is just a bunch of pugs said to build blight or some random meta set and follow him around, they are not coordinated in anyway nor have ever been, and also the only reason they attack other groups is because his entire group runs blightseed, matter of fact he usually sits around the faction because his group alone cannot even handle fighting a ballgroup half the time. Lastly, most ballgroups DO fight eachother, what makes you think they don't?ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.
What are some ballgroups on PC/NA then?
Indriks, LoM, Fake News, Adrestria, Enchiladas, 3.5, SLAYER, BONED, Barcodes.
Prob more that im not remembering.
I agree 100% with everything you are saying. I think people just dislike ballgroups so they obfuscate and make random arguments that are just false narratives to try and drive their point. LoM is 100% a ballgroup and paleorc 100% does NOT solo mainly, if at all, as someone who knows him.
Those ballgroups also DO fight each other often, it's very common. I don't know why if people want change they go about it by attempting to post false information that people fixing the game won't even interact with.2 -
Antrox41✭✭✭
I happen to be in LoM, so I know pale also.ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Uhhhhh no....... Paleorc is not solo, he hasn't been solo in years, he will occasionally be but he primarily now plays in a group. LoM IS a coordinated ballgroup, idk what kind of definition you are basing yours off of but it seems to be inherently wrong. Bobbys group is just a bunch of pugs said to build blight or some random meta set and follow him around, they are not coordinated in anyway nor have ever been, and also the only reason they attack other groups is because his entire group runs blightseed, matter of fact he usually sits around the faction because his group alone cannot even handle fighting a ballgroup half the time. Lastly, most ballgroups DO fight eachother, what makes you think they don't?ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.
What are some ballgroups on PC/NA then?
Indriks, LoM, Fake News, Adrestria, Enchiladas, 3.5, SLAYER, BONED, Barcodes.
Prob more that im not remembering.
I agree 100% with everything you are saying. I think people just dislike ballgroups so they obfuscate and make random arguments that are just false narratives to try and drive their point. LoM is 100% a ballgroup and paleorc 100% does NOT solo mainly, if at all, as someone who knows him.
Those ballgroups also DO fight each other often, it's very common. I don't know why if people want change they go about it by attempting to post false information that people fixing the game won't even interact with.
Bro this entire forum hates ballgroups, have you even noticed the moment we have something to say about balancing issues our opinions are immediately disregarded and bombarded with nonsensical hate followed by mundane out of touch arguments. Its absolutely disgusting how people think being in an organized group is essentially just cheating to some people.2 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »People play the game they way they want. Ball groups, small scale, duels, etc.
If two 12 person groups want to all be 60k hp permablock tanks and each group stand on one of two flags, take keeps and engage in zero combat, then that's how they want to play.
It is up to you to either engage or not. If you choose to engage then it is up to you to play the game and figure out how to counter that play style. The tools available to combat these teams should be fair. Zos position is that ab is not fair because there is no counter play.
I choose to not engage, which I feel is the best strategy, because I do not want to spend my time trying to burn down these types of groups.
I do the same thing when I encounter enemies I know are wearing, using broken sets and or tactics. I disengage because I don't want to play that game
"Don't play the game" is not a viable answer to these groups. Azureblight is. ZOS's possition that there is not counterplay to the current live state of Azureblight is unhinged because the counterplay is obvious and simple: don't mindlessly and obliviously pixel stack on other players. This was aparently something too complicated for ballgroups to grasp and so they cried for nerfs to the only thing that actually was counterplay to their abusive and exploitative (if not outright bug abusing) play style.
Players have every right to mindlessly pixel stack, as you put it, because that's how they want to enjoy their pvp experience. Who are you to tell others how they should play?
No one said don't play the game. If you want to engage in that part of the game then it is up to you to figure out a way to do so. Ab isn't it because there is no counter play.... per zos... I thought I was pretty clear about that.
There are what, 18 keeps, 6 outposts and 3 towns in cyro? If the ball groups are at one, move to another... or engage... up to you... totally 100% up to you... but if you engage figuring out a way to fairly compete with very organized ball groups isnyour burden that you chose by engaging. It's no one else's problem to fix.
Just for the record, I think ball groups are the single worst part of the entire pvp experience. I completely detest their presence. But they have every right to be there.
This is a joke right?
They absolutely do not have "every right" to mindlessly pixel stack, and the assertion that they do is absolutely wild. What we do have a right to is counters for every type of gameplay. Azureblight is the counter to pixel stacking and spamming shields. I don't care what you were "clear" about or not, you're simply wrong.
"Don't defend your keeps" is not a viable answer to ballgroups like you seem to think it is. We do have a right to viable defense strategies for our home keeps. Ballgroups do not have a right to be unkillable like you and they seem to think they do.
Play the way you want. What part of that doesn't make sense?
"Play the way you want" doesn't mean at all what you seem to think it means. Once again "just disengage" = "don't defend keeps" = "don't play", when that is your answer for how to deal with a group it is an indication of a balance issue and, the response is just straight wrong headed.
No one said you HAD to disengage. It's one option of many. You CHOOSE to engage because that's the way you want to play and that's fine.... because you can PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT TO... hiwever, odds are you are going to lose because the organized groups are. Wait for it.... waaaaait for it..... organized groups...
I'm done. Take care and good luck out there.Edited by Thumbless_Bot on 27 September 2024 00:090 -
ForumSavant✭✭✭✭
I happen to be in LoM, so I know pale also.ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
Uhhhhh no....... Paleorc is not solo, he hasn't been solo in years, he will occasionally be but he primarily now plays in a group. LoM IS a coordinated ballgroup, idk what kind of definition you are basing yours off of but it seems to be inherently wrong. Bobbys group is just a bunch of pugs said to build blight or some random meta set and follow him around, they are not coordinated in anyway nor have ever been, and also the only reason they attack other groups is because his entire group runs blightseed, matter of fact he usually sits around the faction because his group alone cannot even handle fighting a ballgroup half the time. Lastly, most ballgroups DO fight eachother, what makes you think they don't?ForumSavant wrote: »CatoUnchained wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »Major_Toughness wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »ForumSavant wrote: »JustLovely wrote: ».ForumSavant wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »Anyone saying that the counter to a ball group should be another ball group has a severe lack of understanding to why ball groups exist.
Players don’t ball up to take a map, they do it to farm AP off of others as a tried and true gold farming method.
They don’t do it for the challenge, and they aren’t looking to fight other ball groups, oftentimes, the leaders of said groups will communicate with enemy groups just to be SURE that they don’t run into one another.
Players that are getting grieved by ball groups should have a means of building to protect others, and that’s what Azureblight was.
All players had to do were spread out, I’m sure a coordinated group could manage that? Right?
This is the most common misconception I see on here. It's what most pugs spread amongst themselves. Most ballgroups look for fights against other ballgroups, the ballgroups that often times lose those fights obviously don't want to engage in them, but will still to kill other ballgroups if they see them fighting another group. Ballgrouos don't secretly message each other to avoid each other lol
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a ball group fighting another ball group. The last time I saw a ball vs. ball situation was at least 3 years ago and when we had 24 man group size and a much, much higher population cap.
Then you just aren't playing the game. There are multiple streams of people who ballgroup that constantly engage with other ballgroups and kill each other. Streams aside, I can enter cyro almost any day of the week and find different groups fighting each other, not avoiding. People spread the weirdest misinformation on the forums and it's usually the people who lack any type of PvP experience.
It's virtually guaranteed I have more PvP experience than you and almost anyone else. I have 5 GO's on my main account and run in guild raid for 2 hours every day, and an additional 1-6 hours solo every day since 2015. I have 3 accounts, one for each faction, because back when Cyrodiil was in it's hey day I had friends I wanted to play with on every faction. I'm in the top 1% of players who've spent the most time in ESO and PvP is my main focus because it's never boring.
It's a fact that ball groups very rarely fight each other. The pop cap is so low now it's uncommon for any faction to have more than one ball group running at a time now days. Remember, a zerg is not a ball group. And beyond that, there aren't but a fraction of ESO streamers that there were in the past. They've almost all moved on to other games that can support their "job".
Just because you make up stories doesn't make it "fact." You said you haven't seen ballgroups fight each other in 3 years, there's no way that is the case. I can show you vods of 6 different ballgroups fighting each other in just the last week. This is the case every week. Stop pushing false narratives to try and get your way, this is why nothing actually gets done about it, because they look at random comments that just aren't true and move on.
Can you post those vods?
Bobby constantly runs his group into other groups and attempts to zerg them down.
Paleorc usually deletes his vod but this is the most recent one he kept up
Novellli always looks to fight other groups
Temperedone also streams them fighting other ballgroups weekly
These fights happen daily and people who play want to act like they don't fight each other, I never see them back off fighting each other unless they are waiting for one to siege the door down so they can get in behind them.
Bobby does not run a ball group. Paleorc also does not run a ball group. Are you sure you know what a ball group is? You appear to not know the difference between a ball group and and just a bunch of players in the same place at the same time. I can't speak to the other videos because I only play PC NA, but you definitely missed the mark by a mile with claiming Bobby runs a ball group. Bobby actually spends most of his time just standing around apparently AFK. Paleorc usually plays solo, but he does occasionally play in a group, but it's not a ball group. Not all groups are ball groups.
I also play on PC NA every day. What you see happening is exactly the same thing I see happening.
There are groups and there are ball groups. They are very different. Anyone can form a group and benefit from cross healing. Forming a ball group is a totally different thing. Ball group builds tend to be so specialized that they are totally impotent outside of the group. Seems like only those of us who've actually played in ball groups before know the difference.
What are some ballgroups on PC/NA then?
Indriks, LoM, Fake News, Adrestria, Enchiladas, 3.5, SLAYER, BONED, Barcodes.
Prob more that im not remembering.
I agree 100% with everything you are saying. I think people just dislike ballgroups so they obfuscate and make random arguments that are just false narratives to try and drive their point. LoM is 100% a ballgroup and paleorc 100% does NOT solo mainly, if at all, as someone who knows him.
Those ballgroups also DO fight each other often, it's very common. I don't know why if people want change they go about it by attempting to post false information that people fixing the game won't even interact with.
Bro this entire forum hates ballgroups, have you even noticed the moment we have something to say about balancing issues our opinions are immediately disregarded and bombarded with nonsensical hate followed by mundane out of touch arguments. Its absolutely disgusting how people think being in an organized group is essentially just cheating to some people.
On another thread completely unrelated someone posted "ballgroups exploit us" when I asked what the exploit was they just said killing them. People don't actually engage in any logical conversation, they just make things up and move on. I don't know why lying or spreading massive amounts of information is allowed on the forums.
I understand the hate for ballgroups, as someone who prefers 4-6, but there is never any logical engagement with anything and I'd rather keep them around than cater to the wishes of people who just make things up in an attempt to get it changed just so they don't die when out numbered.1 -
IncultaWolf✭✭✭✭✭
✭I played with a well known ballgroup on PCNA for about a month or two just to see what it was like, but it was such brainrot gameplay for me that I quit. Not sure how people find it fun, you're mostly just farming pvers. I did get some very interesting perspectives though. Yes the raid leads actually sit around and look at logs for hours every night, and yes they do in fact sometimes avoid other ballgroups.13 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The counter to the ball group is bravely retreating. Wait for a equally sweaty hero team to beat them if solo.0