So apparently people are being banned in game for using certain words with their friends?

StaticWave · September 19

Apparently chat is being monitored by AI and some people got banned while having fun banter with their friends because they used certain words that are deemed against the ToS. Nobody was reported, no feelings got hurt, yet those people still got banned.

Can anyone confirm this?

Dragonnord · September 19

First step would be you confirming that they are banned and for that reason.

They should have received an e-mail stating why they got banned.

Show us.

Otherwise I can say a friend got banned for picking too many mats overland and leaving none for the other players. I can say anything if I have no proof.

Dragonnord · September 19

Also, you don't need AI to monitor that. It's been like that with ZOS for years. There are several certain words that are flagged and can trigger an alert on ZOS side. No AI needed for that.

sarahthes · September 19

StaticWave wrote: »

Apparently chat is being monitored by AI and some people got banned while having fun banter with their friends because they used certain words that are deemed against the ToS. Nobody was reported, no feelings got hurt, yet those people still got banned.

Can anyone confirm this?

Probably best to know the content of their private conversations with their friends before wondering if they were unjustly banned.

StaticWave · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

First step would be you confirming that they are banned and for that reason.

They should have received an e-mail stating why they got banned.

Show us.

Otherwise I can say a friend got banned for picking too many mats overland and leaving none for the other players. I can say anything if I have no proof.

StaticWave · September 19

The stream is currently active

Dragonnord · September 19

Where's the proof there? I just see an in-game message stating your friend was banned for breaking the Code of Conduct but that's it.

Then I see a Notepad text saying whatever he wants or thinks happened.

Where's the official communication from ZOS (not a Notepad text written by your friend and things someone else told to your friend) stating "You have been banned for using x words in chat"?

Imagine taking a Notepad text to the judge in court instead of real documentation.

Dragonnord · September 19

sarahthes wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Apparently chat is being monitored by AI and some people got banned while having fun banter with their friends because they used certain words that are deemed against the ToS. Nobody was reported, no feelings got hurt, yet those people still got banned.

Can anyone confirm this?

Probably best to know the content of their private conversations with their friends before wondering if they were unjustly banned.

Agree. Otherwise I can say all kind of things in public or private chat and then say "Oh! I was just joking with my friends". Easy to be never guilty.

Maitsukas · September 19

How many threads on this issue do these players need now?

StaticWave · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

Where's the proof there? I just see an in-game message stating your friend was banned for breaking the Code of Conduct but that's it.

Then I see a Notepad text saying whatever he wants or thinks happened.

Where's the official communication from ZOS (not a Notepad text written by your friend and things someone else told to your friend) stating "You have been banned for using x words in chat"?

Imagine taking a Notepad text to the judge in court instead of real documentation.

I can't the contents here without blurring it unfortunately. But according to him, ZOS flagged the word p**sy and banned him for it

Nharimlur_Finor · September 19

I'm sure they may have a legal right to do something like this.

What isn't clear is our consumer rights in this situation.

For instance, our right to know some basic information about this system, why it is being implemented and what choices we have with our purchased product.

@ZOS_MattFiror

Dragonnord · September 19

LaintalAy wrote: »

I'm sure they may have a legal right to do something like this.

What isn't clear is our consumer rights in this situation.

For instance, our right to know some basic information about this system, why it is being implemented and what choices we have with our purchased product.

@ZOS_MattFiror

And who told you ZOS is doing anything?

So I come to the forums saying ZOS is spying us with a satellite and you demand explanation just because me, a random person, said that and I didn't provide any proof?

Also, seems you didn't read the part above where I say:

"You don't need AI to monitor that. It's been like that with ZOS for years. There are several certain words that are flagged and can trigger an alert on ZOS side."

Every mmo has that since ever.

IA has nothing to do here.

Vaqual · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

I'm sure they may have a legal right to do something like this.

What isn't clear is our consumer rights in this situation.

For instance, our right to know some basic information about this system, why it is being implemented and what choices we have with our purchased product.

@ZOS_MattFiror

And who told you ZOS is doing anything?

So I come to the forums saying ZOS is spying us with a satellite and you demand explanation just because me, a random person, said that and I didn't provide any proof?

Also, seems you didn't read the part above where I say:

"You don't need AI to monitor that. It's been like that with ZOS for years. There are several certain words that are flagged and can trigger an alert on ZOS side."

Every mmo has that since ever.

IA has nothing to do here.

There are two other threads with the same topic, with countless player accounts confirming this.

StaticWave · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

I'm sure they may have a legal right to do something like this.

What isn't clear is our consumer rights in this situation.

For instance, our right to know some basic information about this system, why it is being implemented and what choices we have with our purchased product.

@ZOS_MattFiror

And who told you ZOS is doing anything?

So I come to the forums saying ZOS is spying us with a satellite and you demand explanation just because me, a random person, said that and I didn't provide any proof?

Also, seems you didn't read the part above where I say:

"You don't need AI to monitor that. It's been like that with ZOS for years. There are several certain words that are flagged and can trigger an alert on ZOS side."

Every mmo has that since ever.

IA has nothing to do here.

Not sure about that though. I've seen that specific word used many times in that past without any ban unless it was reported. It's only been lately that people are getting banned for simply having a banter with a friend.

ZOS banning someone for using certain words while bantering with a friend in a private group chat is like a hotel owner kicking guests out when they say some cuss words inside the room they rented for the night lol.

Sluggy · September 19

StaticWave wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

LaintalAy wrote: »

I'm sure they may have a legal right to do something like this.

What isn't clear is our consumer rights in this situation.

For instance, our right to know some basic information about this system, why it is being implemented and what choices we have with our purchased product.

@ZOS_MattFiror

And who told you ZOS is doing anything?

So I come to the forums saying ZOS is spying us with a satellite and you demand explanation just because me, a random person, said that and I didn't provide any proof?

Also, seems you didn't read the part above where I say:

"You don't need AI to monitor that. It's been like that with ZOS for years. There are several certain words that are flagged and can trigger an alert on ZOS side."

Every mmo has that since ever.

IA has nothing to do here.

Not sure about that though. I've seen that specific word used many times in that past without any ban unless it was reported. It's only been lately that people are getting banned for simply having a banter with a friend.

ZOS banning someone for using certain words while bantering with a friend in a private group chat is like a hotel owner kicking guests out when they say some cuss words inside the room they rented for the night lol.

The real issue I take here is this whole 'AI banning people" thing. Where did that even come from? Is this something zos said they were even doing?

Getting banned for specific word-usage is as easy as making a blacklist of words and comparing every message to that. It doesn't even need to be done live and can be processed by another machine from a different database at a different time. It's the oldest technique in the world and doesn't require an LLM or even a neural network as they were sixty year ago. It literally is just comparing text. And more-than-likely they've just added some new words to the list.

Dragonnord · September 19

Vaqual wrote: »

There are two other threads with the same topic, with countless player accounts confirming this.

Really? And those countless players have proof of anything? In what they base their statements to "confirm this"?

Maybe they have access to ZOS computers?

And, let's pretend they are right, so what? Why can't AI be used to analize information instead of using the old system of logging coding text/info that trigger alerts?

It's not that ZOS is spying our home computers, in any case they are monitoring and analizing their own game chats.

Dragonnord · September 19

Sluggy wrote: »

The real issue I take here is this whole 'AI banning people" thing. Where did that even come from? Is this something zos said they were even doing?

Getting banned for specific word-usage is as easy as making a blacklist of words and comparing every message to that. It doesn't even need to be done live and can be processed by another machine from a different database at a different time. It's the oldest technique in the world and doesn't require an LLM or even a neural network as they were sixty year ago. It literally is just comparing text. And more-than-likely they've just added some new words to the list.

I applaud that comment. People are becoming paranoid about AI, even for things that can be done and have been done easily since ever in mmos.

Arrodisia · September 19

StaticWave wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

First step would be you confirming that they are banned and for that reason.

They should have received an e-mail stating why they got banned.

Show us.

Otherwise I can say a friend got banned for picking too many mats overland and leaving none for the other players. I can say anything if I have no proof.

Nothing posted in this thread proves the person was banned/restricted for that reason. Only an official email communicated directly from the dev team to the restricted or banned player can prove this.

Next point the devs will not specifically discuss any disciplinary actions taken against a specific player here. At best they may vaguely reference a policy and close the thread.

A player's course of action after being disciplined is to appeal it by submitting a ticket. The reason the devs rarely comment on these topics is simple. Those players still have a right to privacy whether a disciplinary action has been taken or not.

AI didn't cause players to break the TOS. The algorithms patrolling the chats have been around a long time in MMO's. I only wish. They would catch those pesky gold selling chat spamming accounts faster with it. It totally wrecks RP immersion when their TOS breaking spam pops up

xylena_lazarow · September 19

Not only is language being taken out of context, but there would seem to be zero action taken against actual abusive and malicious text that's a slight variation of slurs or inflammatory politics, even after it has been reported.

StaticWave · September 19

Arrodisia wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

First step would be you confirming that they are banned and for that reason.

They should have received an e-mail stating why they got banned.

Show us.

Otherwise I can say a friend got banned for picking too many mats overland and leaving none for the other players. I can say anything if I have no proof.

Nothing posted in this thread proves the person was banned/restricted for that reason. Only an official email communicated directly from the dev team to the restricted or banned player can prove this.

Next point the devs will not specifically discuss any disciplinary actions taken against a specific player here. At best they may vaguely reference a policy and close the thread.

A player's course of action after being disciplined is to appeal it by submitting a ticket. The reason the devs rarely comment on these topics is simple. Those players still have a right to privacy whether a disciplinary action has been taken or not.

AI didn't cause players to break the TOS. The algorithms patrolling the chats have been around a long time in MMO's. I only wish. They would catch those pesky gold selling chat spamming accounts faster with it. It totally wrecks RP immersion when their TOS breaking spam pops up

Even if I post it here, I would still need to blur it. The person in the screenshot stated that ZOS sent him an email explaining the ban was due to him using the word “pu**y”. I’ve used that word many times in the past as a joke to friends and never got banned. It’s weird that ppl would get ban now

Vaqual · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

There are two other threads with the same topic, with countless player accounts confirming this.

Really? And those countless players have proof of anything? In what they base their statements to "confirm this"?

Maybe they have access to ZOS computers?

And, let's pretend they are right, so what? Why can't AI be used to analize information instead of using the old system of logging coding text/info that trigger alerts?

It's not that ZOS is spying our home computers, in any case they are monitoring and analizing their own game chats.

Look, I see that you enjoy lawyering around here, but you are missing the mark.
OP asked if someone knows more about the topic.
You corner him and ask on what grounds he is asking that.
I say, several accounts have been made in other threads.
You ask what proof there is.
I don't know if there is or there isn't any. The topic has come up and I treat it with a normal amount of intrigue and skepticism. If the allegations are true, it is a horrible system with no beneficiaries. If it isn't, no problemo.
I don't know what you want. Maybe I am missing the point.

Arrodisia · September 19

StaticWave wrote: »

Arrodisia wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

First step would be you confirming that they are banned and for that reason.

They should have received an e-mail stating why they got banned.

Show us.

Otherwise I can say a friend got banned for picking too many mats overland and leaving none for the other players. I can say anything if I have no proof.

Nothing posted in this thread proves the person was banned/restricted for that reason. Only an official email communicated directly from the dev team to the restricted or banned player can prove this.

Next point the devs will not specifically discuss any disciplinary actions taken against a specific player here. At best they may vaguely reference a policy and close the thread.

A player's course of action after being disciplined is to appeal it by submitting a ticket. The reason the devs rarely comment on these topics is simple. Those players still have a right to privacy whether a disciplinary action has been taken or not.

AI didn't cause players to break the TOS. The algorithms patrolling the chats have been around a long time in MMO's. I only wish. They would catch those pesky gold selling chat spamming accounts faster with it. It totally wrecks RP immersion when their TOS breaking spam pops up

Even if I post it here, I would still need to blur it. The person in the screenshot stated that ZOS sent him an email explaining the ban was due to him using the word “pu**y”. I’ve used that word many times in the past as a joke to friends and never got banned. It’s weird that ppl would get ban now

So there is still no proof this has happened for that reason.

The only details that need to be covered are the personal details of the account holder and the name of the player account. So the communication is seen without any identifying markers. Until there is proof this should be treated as it truly is right now. This is a completely unconfirmed source posting this information.

Anyone can say anything without proof. Saying it in multiple threads doesn't make it true.

xylena_lazarow · September 19

Arrodisia wrote: »

So there is still no proof this has happened for that reason.

You aren't going to see "proof" on the forums because you're not allowed to talk disciplinary specifics.

Arrodisia · September 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Arrodisia wrote: »

So there is still no proof this has happened for that reason.

You aren't going to see "proof" on the forums because you're not allowed to talk disciplinary specifics.

normally yes and I mentioned this earlier. However, in this case that isn't true. The players in the thread mentioned there was a twitch active as proof and when viewed it showed no proof at all, just a say so of a player who can't log in. That was a very misleading clickbait to lead people to a twitch account showing a self generated text proving absolutely nothing.

Wolfshade · September 19

Lets try it and write the same text in your grp-chat.

Dragonnord · September 19

Vaqual wrote: »

If the allegations are true, it is a horrible system with no beneficiaries. If it isn't, no problemo.

Horrible system why? Explain me why please.

It's been like that, blacklisting and logging certain words since ever in mmos, now, 10 years later "Oh! This is horrible!"?

Come on! Give ZOS a break.

StaticWave · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

If the allegations are true, it is a horrible system with no beneficiaries. If it isn't, no problemo.

Horrible system why? Explain me why please.

It's been like that, blacklisting and logging certain words since ever in mmos, now, 10 years later "Oh! This is horrible!"?

Come on! GIve ZOS a break.

Imagine labeling the game as 17+ then banning adults for simply cussing in a private chat where nobody got their feelings hurt.

TechMaybeHic · September 19

I'll keep this in mind. I generally stay out of zone chat and don't respond to whispers except for friends, and often times it is a joke or something that we even keep out of discord because they are not for everyone. AI would not be able to get that context of what we are saying outside of game is "I have a NSFW joke" and someone say "whisper it to me"

Dragonnord · September 19

StaticWave wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

If the allegations are true, it is a horrible system with no beneficiaries. If it isn't, no problemo.

Horrible system why? Explain me why please.

It's been like that, blacklisting and logging certain words since ever in mmos, now, 10 years later "Oh! This is horrible!"?

Come on! GIve ZOS a break.

Imagine labeling the game as 17+ then banning adults for simply cussing in a private chat where nobody got their feelings hurt.

Imaging saying I was banned for X thing when you have no proof of you (your friends) being banned for THAT thing.

TechMaybeHic · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

If the allegations are true, it is a horrible system with no beneficiaries. If it isn't, no problemo.

Horrible system why? Explain me why please.

It's been like that, blacklisting and logging certain words since ever in mmos, now, 10 years later "Oh! This is horrible!"?

Come on! GIve ZOS a break.

Imagine labeling the game as 17+ then banning adults for simply cussing in a private chat where nobody got their feelings hurt.

Imaging saying I was banned for X thing when you have no proof of you (your friends) being banned for THAT thing.

Seems to be at least not denied with Kevins comment here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8185457#Comment_8185457

They say to appeal it with a ticket, but those tickets take a lot longer than the ban and are often ignored

xylena_lazarow · September 19

Dragonnord wrote: »

Horrible system why? Explain me why please.

You can hide in offline mode, call someone a garbage scum person irl, then tbag them, and nothing happens.

Meanwhile a benign phrase like "I graduated college magna *** laude" will probably get you in trouble.