Gold Road: when your dlc gets a dlc.

moderatelyfatman

Necrom was a very dense chapter because we got an additional class.
No one expects an additional class with each chapter but Gold Road seems to be the lightest chapter of all given the lack of companions. Now we find that you need to subscribe to ESO+ despite buying Gold Road to get the new companions that should have been integrated into the zone story like the previous ones.

I'm getting concerned here about what is going to happen next if we continue down this road (no pun intended).
Will the next new overpowered class require an ESO+ subscription to claim?
What about the latest trial?
How about new antiquities that come with the latest zone?

I'm sure ZOS could spin it into a positive: not everyone does trials so why should people pay full price for features they don't want?

TheMajority

i got a suspicion gold road zone was supposed to originally be the second half on Necrom but a shift in how they monetize and give us (less) content changed that

Erickson9610

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

TheMajority

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

Erickson9610

TheMajority wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

I disagree. Companions are not part of the Gold Road Chapter, nor should we expect them to be from here on out. Of course, it'd be nice — but it was never promised to be in every Chapter since Blackwood. I hope we go back to having Companions in the Chapter, but I'm not owed that.

ZOS sets the price and determines the content, and is allowed to keep the content to price ratio at whatever they want it to be.

WitchyKiki

I too like paying more for less and advocating for it.

/s

Erickson9610

WitchyKiki wrote: »

I too like paying more for less and advocating for it.

/s

I advocate for ZOS's right to create and sell what they want. It's my decision whether or not I buy what they're selling, and my responsibility to verify whether what they're selling contains the particular features I want.

FlopsyPrince

Erickson9610 wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

I disagree. Companions are not part of the Gold Road Chapter, nor should we expect them to be from here on out. Of course, it'd be nice — but it was never promised to be in every Chapter since Blackwood. I hope we go back to having Companions in the Chapter, but I'm not owed that.

ZOS sets the price and determines the content, and is allowed to keep the content to price ratio at whatever they want it to be.

I guess you would also be fine if you bought a fast food hamburger and they charged extra for the bun?

moderatelyfatman

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

I disagree. Companions are not part of the Gold Road Chapter, nor should we expect them to be from here on out. Of course, it'd be nice — but it was never promised to be in every Chapter since Blackwood. I hope we go back to having Companions in the Chapter, but I'm not owed that.

ZOS sets the price and determines the content, and is allowed to keep the content to price ratio at whatever they want it to be.

I guess you would also be fine if you bought a fast food hamburger and they charged extra for the bun?

Maybe this is just ZOS being mindful of people on a keto diet?

WitchyKiki

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

I disagree. Companions are not part of the Gold Road Chapter, nor should we expect them to be from here on out. Of course, it'd be nice — but it was never promised to be in every Chapter since Blackwood. I hope we go back to having Companions in the Chapter, but I'm not owed that.

ZOS sets the price and determines the content, and is allowed to keep the content to price ratio at whatever they want it to be.

I guess you would also be fine if you bought a fast food hamburger and they charged extra for the bun?

This actually really sucks, I'm on a GF diet (health reasons) and always have to pay extra for a GF bun.

Erickson9610

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

I disagree. Companions are not part of the Gold Road Chapter, nor should we expect them to be from here on out. Of course, it'd be nice — but it was never promised to be in every Chapter since Blackwood. I hope we go back to having Companions in the Chapter, but I'm not owed that.

ZOS sets the price and determines the content, and is allowed to keep the content to price ratio at whatever they want it to be.

I guess you would also be fine if you bought a fast food hamburger and they charged extra for the bun?

I'd be unhappy, but they are allowed to do that as long as they never said the fast food hamburger contains the bun by default. It's my fault for assuming it would.

WitchyKiki

TLDR. Have at it!

Carcamongus

I don't agree with some opinions voiced here, but having a minority view that doesn't violate ToS is still valid.

Yes, ZOS can set whatever price it wants and offer whatever content it wants. So, yes, it can charge us $500 for a chapter that's nothing but arrow in the knee references and mudballs, no companions, no new features and a new and "exciting" trial that you pay crowns per run. This isn't a common law system in which precedents set rights.

However, when you do something in a certain manner for years, it sets expectations. When you promise to offer more repeatable content after announcing the end of Q3 dungeons and Q4 DLC zone, you also set expectations. It's not at all surprising that people are unhappy for actually getting less content and now companions that aren't part of a chapter purchase. Remember the $500 chapter I mentioned? Just because ZOS can do something doesn't mean it should. Focusing on whether we're owed something misses the point: we're getting less for the same price as before and this isn't just about the companions. It's always useful to remember the game needs players to thrive and, while ZOS can indeed go ahead with bad ideas, their customers can also leave if they become fed up.

Erickson9610

Carcamongus wrote: »

I don't agree with some opinions voiced here, but having a minority view that doesn't violate ToS is still valid.

Yes, ZOS can set whatever price it wants and offer whatever content it wants. So, yes, it can charge us $500 for a chapter that's nothing but arrow in the knee references and mudballs, no companions, no new features and a new and "exciting" trial that you pay crowns per run. This isn't a common law system in which precedents set rights.

However, when you do something in a certain manner for years, it sets expectations. When you promise to offer more repeatable content after announcing the end of Q3 dungeons and Q4 DLC zone, you also set expectations. It's not at all surprising that people are unhappy for actually getting less content and now companions that aren't part of a chapter purchase. Remember the $500 chapter I mentioned? Just because ZOS can do something doesn't mean it should. Focusing on whether we're owed something misses the point: we're getting less for the same price as before and this isn't just about the companions. It's always useful to remember the game needs players to thrive and, while ZOS can indeed go ahead with bad ideas, their customers can also leave if they become fed up.

I agree 100%.

FlopsyPrince

WitchyKiki wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

I disagree. Companions are not part of the Gold Road Chapter, nor should we expect them to be from here on out. Of course, it'd be nice — but it was never promised to be in every Chapter since Blackwood. I hope we go back to having Companions in the Chapter, but I'm not owed that.

ZOS sets the price and determines the content, and is allowed to keep the content to price ratio at whatever they want it to be.

I guess you would also be fine if you bought a fast food hamburger and they charged extra for the bun?

This actually really sucks, I'm on a GF diet (health reasons) and always have to pay extra for a GF bun.

While it can be annoying, at least you are looking for something outside the norm, which makes more sense.

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I'll reserve my judgements on the "future of ESO" until we see this pattern continue next year, or not. I think this is a one time thing due to special circumstances. I'm hoping next year's Chapter will include Companions, but I'm definitely not owed them with the Chapter.

uh, they're part of the chapter for years, and part of the price. they belong in the chapter, or it should cost less, period.

I disagree. Companions are not part of the Gold Road Chapter, nor should we expect them to be from here on out. Of course, it'd be nice — but it was never promised to be in every Chapter since Blackwood. I hope we go back to having Companions in the Chapter, but I'm not owed that.

ZOS sets the price and determines the content, and is allowed to keep the content to price ratio at whatever they want it to be.

I guess you would also be fine if you bought a fast food hamburger and they charged extra for the bun?

Maybe this is just ZOS being mindful of people on a keto diet?

Though ZOS would probably also charge for the lettuce wrap!

Tazzy

ZOS is a commercial enterprise. They HAVE to make profit. All these 'free' things they have distributed to users this year have to be paid somehow. It's nothing else than cross-subsidization. So I'm definitely not surprised or concerned that content is reduced, or we have to pay for things, that where 'free' in other dlc's.After all we always pay for so-called free goods...

WitchyKiki

Tazzy wrote: »

ZOS is a commercial enterprise. They HAVE to make profit. All these 'free' things they have distributed to users this year have to be paid somehow. It's nothing else than cross-subsidization. So I'm definitely not surprised or concerned that content is reduced, or we have to pay for things, that where 'free' in other dlc's.After all we always pay for so-called free goods...

ZOS has always distributed free big items: houses, dlc, crates etc. Its not exclusive to this year, I don't think it has to do with Goldroad being smaller.

agelonestar

I’m not especially bothered by a couple of Companions being offered in the Crown Store. It was inevitable - and not necessarily a bad thing.

And whenever I see people complain about Gold Road’s scale, they seem to forget about Scribing. This was a huge new feature, with an expansive quest line of its own.

Map size isn’t everything.

Rkindaleft

I don't even use companions but I'm a little concerned about the precedent this has set.

They pretty much straight up ripped content that has always been included in a chapter since their release to then sell it as it's own purchase in the crown store.

I know they didn't say that companions would be included in the chapter, but they also didn't say companions weren't going to be included in the chapter either, so the expectation was that they would be included later and be free for anyone who owned the chapter, as that's literally how it's always been since they released.

Tons of people have already said that Gold Road was lacking in content, too empty, too grindy and smaller zone - what do they plan to rip out to sell next? This isn't the last we've seen of this.

Rkindaleft

agelonestar wrote: »

I’m not especially bothered by a couple of Companions being offered in the Crown Store. It was inevitable - and not necessarily a bad thing.

And whenever I see people complain about Gold Road’s scale, they seem to forget about Scribing. This was a huge new feature, with an expansive quest line of its own.

Map size isn’t everything.

Apologies if I'm being nit-picky here, but Greymoor came with the Antiquities system during a pandemic year and including both zones (adding on Blackreach) is significantly bigger than West Weald, so saying that Scribing is the reason why the zone is really small doesn't make much sense.

The questline also 95% of the time sent us to places we've seen before in the base game, so we didn't even get to explore more of West Weald there while it being a trademark inclusion of the new expansion. There's less quests than every other chapter, the zone is way smaller as you said, a lot of the content there is grindy, it's locked doors and inaccessible areas galore, and now they've removed companions from the chapter too in order to sell it in the crown store as a separate purchase. It's lame.

I_killed_Vivec

Some random points:

- It's clear that West Weald should have been the second half of Necrom, but they decided they could make it into a separate chapter, giving "bug fixes and QoL" updates (i.e. making the game work the way it should have from the start) instead.

- ZoS has now decided that they can fob people off with the loss of content for "bug fixes". This was put forward as a regrettable but necessary one off, clearly they have done the sums and think they can repeat the ploy year in year out.

- I don't use a companion, I don't want more companions, but I understand that others do. I've unlocked all of them so far, the questlines were simply quests, ignoring the "reward" of a captive companion ( ). But even though I don't use them I think having to pay for them is a very bad idea.

- While ZoS obviously have the right to sell what they want, and it is up to us to decide if we want to buy it, it is disappointing to see these changes after so many people have been playing for so long. People have invested into this game heavily, and are being asked to invest more (on the cynical basis that if you don't then the previous investment will have been a waste).

What concerns me most is the overall feeling of where the game is going... this is the 10th Anniversary, you'd think they'd be pulling out all the stops to celebrate it. But we get the minimal West Weald, disappointing scribing, crown store companions, a dreadful grind for the actual 10th Anniversary event for some pretty insubstantial rewards. ZoS seem to be scrabbling around for anything they can monetize, while giving less for more. It all seems very cynical, when this is the very time we should all be celebrating!

Obviously ZoS have to make money, but they don't have to make you feel like you've been ripped off.

Pelanora

I'm always amused by the argument, corporates can do what they want with their product, that I see in this forum, made in the face of the multi billion dollar advertising industry that recognizes if consumers don't WANT a product, the corporate making it is toast.

Zos can only survive so long as it makes what WE WANT. As WE pay the bills.

There may be some lag, with its decisions and the effect on the consumers interest, but it will still come true. Stop making what people want, lose the people. That's the only universal law of business.

Syldras

Tazzy wrote: »

All these 'free' things they have distributed to users this year have to be paid somehow.

What things? The ages old dlcs that have been made years ago and they don't need new, current ressources for to just unlock them for everyone now? The furniture as log-in rewards this month that has been in the game for years? The few crown store "get achievement, claim for free" cosmetics/recolors, which I suspect are items they made sometimes earlier anyway? I doubt that most things given for free now were made extra for the anniversary.

Tazzy

Syldras wrote: »

Tazzy wrote: »

All these 'free' things they have distributed to users this year have to be paid somehow.

What things? The ages old dlcs that have been made years ago and they don't need new, current ressources for to just unlock them for everyone now? The furniture as log-in rewards this month that has been in the game for years? The few crown store "get achievement, claim for free" cosmetics/recolors, which I suspect are items they made sometimes earlier anyway? I doubt that most things given for free now were made extra for the anniversary.

Is this a question for me, or simply a criticism of the things they have distributed for free.
Btw would be more respectful to quote everything I wrote than just a part. This is how things get out of context.

tom6143346

Well like I said in threads bevor. I dislike this behavior from ZOS and I will vote with my money especially since 6 of my friends quit playing this game just in the last month. I allready put much less playtime and money into it , and will continue to do so. No more preorder from chapters from now on for me and at least some brakes in my eso+ sub, until something changes back to where we come from . Money vote is what every company understands or should understand. It’s not the first misstep for ZOS this year and I am pretty confident I m not the only one that will do so. Let’s hope it changes in the future bc the game itself is really good it’s the company that would like to make some cash cows from the players.

Lalothen

I find it interesting that ZOS are paring back the content they offer and continuing not to really listen to their community, while other big MMOs like WoW, GW2 & BDO are upping their game when it comes to new content releases AND listening to their respective communities much more.

At this point it feels very much like they are relying on the blind loyalty of players, rather than respecting the fact that we are paying customers. Frankly though, I feel this has been a pervasive attitude among many larger live service game developers in recent years, not just ZOS: viewing us as loyal little cash cows who will keep on paying & playing regardless, and constantly testing the lower threshold of how little content they can get away with offering while still remaining comfortably profitable.

Some developers appear to have woken up to the fact that players won't take that nonsense forever, and also that game communities are a massive, freely tappable resource for new content, revamp & balancing ideas. ZOS might do well to read the room, before it ends up empty.

Syldras

Tazzy wrote: »

Is this a question for me, or simply a criticism of the things they have distributed for free.

It's neither. I'm commenting that I don't think the freebies they gave meant extra costs or development time for ZOS, but were things that they - in many cases obviously, in some supposedly - had created beforehand anyway. Of course you are free to think differently.

Tazzy wrote: »

Btw would be more respectful to quote everything I wrote than just a part. This is how things get out of context.

I keep quotes short to exactly the part I'm commenting on, not to unnecccessarily bloat the page. If people want to see context, they can click on the small ">>" next to the name to view the original message.

AlterBlika

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

not everyone does trials so why should people pay full price for features they don't want?

Not everyone do story quests, want companions, etc, it's okay
Just don't buy if you don't need it

AzuraFan

ZOS will continue to monetize whatever it can, and charge AAA price for chapters with less content, as long as players continue to pay. I preordered the last few chapters, but on sale at one of the third-party seller sites. I didn't get a tremendous amount off - I think 10 or 15%. I will not preorder next year's chapter, even at 10 or 15% off. While I enjoyed the Gold Road chapter, it was overpriced.

If I keep buying the chapters at AAA prices, I'm part of the problem. Unless reviews of the chapter when it releases indicate that ZOS has upped its game and included more content, I'll wait for the inevitable sale during the new zone's event. Because of the loss of the Q4 story DLC, I'm used to having to keep myself busy. Another few months won't matter much. Of course, if they charge a reasonable price for the chapter, I'll be happy to preorder. But I'm not holding my breath.

As far as charging for the companions go, they should have been free to those who own Gold Road. I guess I'm naive because when they announced that the companions would be moved to Q4, it never crossed my mind that ZOS would charge for them. I have ESO+, so I'll get them for free. If I didn't have ESO+, I'd probably buy them, if the price was acceptable, because they come with quests. I don't really need or want more companions.

So I guess I'm saying that if players keep paying AAA prices for the chapters, ZOS will keep charging those prices. And if a lot of non-ESO+ subscribers buy the companions, then I expect they'll become a Q4 crown store item.

freespirit

I have ESO+ so Companionns being in the Crown Store but apparently free for ESO+ doesn't really bother me too much, although if everyone had to buy them, then my main interest would be the price they were.

My family would tell you I am in general a pessimist and I have had a worry, now becoming more of a suspicion and that has to do with ESO's survival after the release of TES6

I know so many people who are playing ESO becsuse they are passing time until that release, ZoS must know this too! In my mind ZoS had a choice, make new content consistantly too good for people to consider leaving completely or make lacklustre content,and charge ever more for it whilst they still have the TES fans on board!

This year's content for me has eventually settled on the disappointing side BUT that was always going to happen after the announcement of the big new "Housing Feature". I still wonder how they landed so far away from all the sometimes brilliant ideas suggested by the housing community??

Here's hoping next year will be better!!

AzuraFan

freespirit wrote: »

My family would tell you I am in general a pessimist and I have had a worry, now becoming more of a suspicion and that has to do with ESO's survival after the release of TES6

I know so many people who are playing ESO becsuse they are passing time until that release, ZoS must know this too! In my mind ZoS had a choice, make new content consistantly too good for people to consider leaving completely or make lacklustre content,and charge ever more for it whilst they still have the TES fans on board!

I think it's fairly obvious that when TES6 releases, there will be a significant population drop in ESO (assuming TES6 is good. I'm not as confident of that after Starfield). But I think ZOS has known about that all along. And it could be why Bethesda has delayed TES6 so long. They wanted ESO to have a good run (and it has!) before they drop the bomb.

ZOS doesn't seem to have as many dev resources working on ESO and is focusing on creating grindy systems and other stuff to keep us busy (scribing and the upcoming golden pursuits, for example). Firor said as much about repeatable systems in one of his letters. I don't expect us to ever see chapters chock-full of content again, and there will be more monetization.

I love playing ESO, but I think its best days are behind it.