Companions up for purchase, really?

Erickson9610

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

WitchyKiki

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

Do you think it won't happen again because of how unhappy everyone has been by this change? or because they will simply stop developing them?

I can't excuse scribing as a reason for companions to be in the crown store... its a reach considering we didn't get as much content compared to Necrom.

Erickson9610

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

Do you think it won't happen again because of how unhappy everyone has been by this change? or because they will simply stop developing them?

I can't excuse scribing as a reason for companions to be in the crown store... its a reach considering we didn't get as much content compared to Necrom.

I think Companions will be in next year's Chapter. Of course ZOS will keep developing them. Scribing just took a lot of developer time to fully implement and balance.

WitchyKiki

Erickson9610 wrote: »

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

Do you think it won't happen again because of how unhappy everyone has been by this change? or because they will simply stop developing them?

I can't excuse scribing as a reason for companions to be in the crown store... its a reach considering we didn't get as much content compared to Necrom.

I think Companions will be in next year's Chapter. Of course ZOS will keep developing them. Scribing just took a lot of developer time to fully implement and balance.

I don't know how developers work, but I will say that infinite archive feels more fleshed out and in-depth, on top of the two new zones for Necrom, than scribing did for Goldroad. Scribing still feels lackluster, besides the new animations on certain skills, I don't use it.

LPapirius

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

How do you know companions wont always be a crown store item going forward? (link to the official statement ZOS made about this please)

Syldras

LPapirius wrote: »

How do you know companions wont always be a crown store item going forward? (link to the official statement ZOS made about this please)

Of course I don't know, but if I'd make a guess I'd say ZOS uses the current situation as a test run to see whether people would be willing to pay for companions and how much they can charge in the store. And then they'd probably act accordingly.

I also can imagine that there aren't enough sales, maybe they'll give up companions altogether.

Arizona_Steve

Erickson9610 wrote: »

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

Absolutely this is going to happen again... and again...

Fortunately ZOS has limited the pricing though. If the price is more than one month's subscription it's better to subscribe for a month and unlock the companions that way.

But I cannot agree with the "shrinkflation" of content. Still haven't bought Gold Road and am waiting for a better sale than the last one.

Erickson9610

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

How do you know companions wont always be a crown store item going forward? (link to the official statement ZOS made about this please)

I don't know for a fact. Nobody can prove that this is the standard going forward, nor can anyone disprove it. I just have reason to believe this won't happen again.

WitchyKiki

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

How do you know companions wont always be a crown store item going forward? (link to the official statement ZOS made about this please)

I don't know for a fact. Nobody can prove that this is the standard going forward, nor can anyone disprove it. I just have reason to believe this won't happen again.

What is your reasoning?

Erickson9610

WitchyKiki wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Stafford197 wrote: »

So now we are directly removing content out of Chapters to then resell later in the year? There is absolutely no way I can support such a dishonest move.

Seems this is the future of ESO.

This could just be a one time thing. It's too early to assume this is the standard going forward.

No, it's not too early to know this is the standard going forward. Just ask anyone who logs on to ESO for Cyrodiil PvP. We've been seeing this trend for more than 5 years now. It's just that it's finally hitting PvE over the last year plus now so more people are noticing.

This is the first occurrence of this happening. Plus, we were told that Companions were moved to Q4 because of the massive undertaking that was the Scribing system. ZOS probably decided this would be the perfect opportunity to try something different with the system since it was no longer being included in the Gold Road Chapter.

I'll change my mind if this trend continues into next year. But, it's unlikely to happen again next year because we received Scribing (the product of a much-requested feature from 10 years ago) for the 10th year anniversary — the 11th year will surely not be as special.

No, it's not the first time this has happened. Over the last 5 years ZOS has reduced the pop cap in cyrodiil from 300/faction to 75/faction without any kind of announcements what so ever. This pay the same to get less has been the trend for a very long time now.

This is the first occurrence of Companions being in the Crown Store. It won't happen again.

How do you know companions wont always be a crown store item going forward? (link to the official statement ZOS made about this please)

I don't know for a fact. Nobody can prove that this is the standard going forward, nor can anyone disprove it. I just have reason to believe this won't happen again.

What is your reasoning?

I'll reiterate what I've said earlier. 2024's Companions were pushed to Q4 due to special circumstances. Namely, Scribing for ESO's 10th year anniversary. 2025 is likely to not have as big of a Chapter feature, due to being the 11th year anniversary, so 2025's Companions are likely going to be included in next year's Chapter, as it has been the standard up to this point.

We should just wait for the 2025 Roadmap to see which quarter the Companions are placed in. If it's not Q2, then it's reasonable to assume this is the standard going forward.

TaSheen

Personally, I think that the companions were always planned to move to the crown store as paid content, and this was the first year they had a minor "excuse" (scribing) to do that. When I saw they were delaying them to Q4, my first assumption was they'd be moved to paid content.

Now, for me this makes no nevermind, as I have no use for the companions at all. But it's certainly understandable that many people see it as a real issue.

manukartofanu

I don't know about others, but when I made the pre-order, I was confident that companions would be included in that price. Especially since we were promised companions. And now it turns out that they will release companions, but they aren't part of the main game, and I will have to pay for them separately. Great. Definitely no more pre-orders for me, I’ll only buy during sales in September. After this, you can never be sure what exactly you're paying for in a pre-order and what they'll decide to cut out as a separate feature to sell to us again.

Erickson9610

I'm personally glad the Companions are no longer restricted to living in the DLC zones, although making them a separate Crown Store purchase defeats the point of making them accessible to new players. Still, it wouldn't make sense to just give something new for free, unless it's meant to have a lot of players participating, like Imperial City, Battlegrounds, or the Infinite Archive.

Erickson9610

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't know about others, but when I made the pre-order, I was confident that companions would be included in that price. Especially since we were promised companions.

We were only told the Companions would be delayed until Q4. That doesn't imply they're going to be retroactively given to Chapter owners. We were promised Companions and ZOS delivered.

I personally didn't expect the Companions to be in the Crown Store. I'm sure nearly no one did. However, I thought that because they were in Q4, they were not part of Gold Road and might be located in base game zones. I was right, but I didn't expect to have to obtain them from the Crown Store — in retrospect, it wouldn't make sense to just give players access to Companions for free. I was foolish to expect such.

I still hold that the consumer should be the one responsible for being absolutely sure they know what they're getting before they buy or pre-order something. ZOS hasn't lied to us at all — the story is that Companions were delayed to Q4. We should've had no expectation of being given this particular Q4 content for free if it had always come at a cost before now.

manukartofanu

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't know about others, but when I made the pre-order, I was confident that companions would be included in that price. Especially since we were promised companions.

We were only told the Companions would be delayed until Q4. That doesn't imply they're going to be retroactively given to Chapter owners. We were promised Companions and ZOS delivered.

I personally didn't expect the Companions to be in the Crown Store. I'm sure nearly no one did. However, I thought that because they were in Q4, they were not part of Gold Road and might be located in base game zones. I was right, but I didn't expect to have to obtain them from the Crown Store — in retrospect, it wouldn't make sense to just give players access to Companions for free. I was foolish to expect such.

I still hold that the consumer should be the one responsible for being absolutely sure they know what they're getting before they buy or pre-order something. ZOS hasn't lied to us at all — the story is that Companions were delayed to Q4. We should've had no expectation of being given this particular Q4 content for free if it had always come at a cost before now.

This is a pointless conversation. The chapter announcement clearly stated, "Featuring a new zone, storyline, Scribing system, rewards, and more." We don't know what exactly is hidden under that "more," and we've never known before either, so everyone is making assumptions based on past experience. If we were to deliver exactly according to this announcement, then it turns out they could even sell antiquity leads for the new chapter through the Crown Store. Why not? They clearly didn’t specify that it's part of the chapter.

Erickson9610

manukartofanu wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't know about others, but when I made the pre-order, I was confident that companions would be included in that price. Especially since we were promised companions.

We were only told the Companions would be delayed until Q4. That doesn't imply they're going to be retroactively given to Chapter owners. We were promised Companions and ZOS delivered.

I personally didn't expect the Companions to be in the Crown Store. I'm sure nearly no one did. However, I thought that because they were in Q4, they were not part of Gold Road and might be located in base game zones. I was right, but I didn't expect to have to obtain them from the Crown Store — in retrospect, it wouldn't make sense to just give players access to Companions for free. I was foolish to expect such.

I still hold that the consumer should be the one responsible for being absolutely sure they know what they're getting before they buy or pre-order something. ZOS hasn't lied to us at all — the story is that Companions were delayed to Q4. We should've had no expectation of being given this particular Q4 content for free if it had always come at a cost before now.

This is a pointless conversation. The chapter announcement clearly stated, "Featuring a new zone, storyline, Scribing system, rewards, and more." We don't know what exactly is hidden under that "more," and we've never known before either, so everyone is making assumptions based on past experience. If we were to deliver exactly according to this announcement, then it turns out they could even sell antiquity leads for the new chapter through the Crown Store. Why not? They clearly didn’t specify that it's part of the chapter.

Whenever anything says "and more", that generally means they've run out of selling points to list. Companions are a selling point of a Chapter, as they have been for three years prior.

Since when have we ever retroactively received additional quests in Chapter zones? Once a Chapter is released, no new quests are ever added to that zone. Companions are brand new quests which start in some zone they're introduced in — and since we have no more striking locales left in West Weald, it's easy to assume they were never going to be retroactively added to that zone. How would including Companions who are located in base game zones make any sense to include with the release of Gold Road?

manukartofanu

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't know about others, but when I made the pre-order, I was confident that companions would be included in that price. Especially since we were promised companions.

We were only told the Companions would be delayed until Q4. That doesn't imply they're going to be retroactively given to Chapter owners. We were promised Companions and ZOS delivered.

I personally didn't expect the Companions to be in the Crown Store. I'm sure nearly no one did. However, I thought that because they were in Q4, they were not part of Gold Road and might be located in base game zones. I was right, but I didn't expect to have to obtain them from the Crown Store — in retrospect, it wouldn't make sense to just give players access to Companions for free. I was foolish to expect such.

I still hold that the consumer should be the one responsible for being absolutely sure they know what they're getting before they buy or pre-order something. ZOS hasn't lied to us at all — the story is that Companions were delayed to Q4. We should've had no expectation of being given this particular Q4 content for free if it had always come at a cost before now.

This is a pointless conversation. The chapter announcement clearly stated, "Featuring a new zone, storyline, Scribing system, rewards, and more." We don't know what exactly is hidden under that "more," and we've never known before either, so everyone is making assumptions based on past experience. If we were to deliver exactly according to this announcement, then it turns out they could even sell antiquity leads for the new chapter through the Crown Store. Why not? They clearly didn’t specify that it's part of the chapter.

Whenever anything says "and more", that generally means they've run out of selling points to list. Companions are a selling point of a Chapter, as they have been for three years prior.

Since when have we ever retroactively received additional quests in Chapter zones? Once a Chapter is released, no new quests are ever added to that zone. Companions are brand new quests which start in some zone they're introduced in — and since we have no more striking locales left in West Weald, it's easy to assume they were never going to be retroactively added to that zone. How would including Companions who are located in base game zones make any sense to include with the release of Gold Road?

Listen, it seems to me that you're just trying to prove your point at any cost, even if it means distorting what we're talking about. If that's what's important to you, then fine, you can consider yourself right. But if you're actually interested in discussing the issue seriously, stick to the facts instead of twisting things. Otherwise, there's no point in continuing this conversation.

As for your arguments, who decides what counts as a selling point? Why did you decide that you have the exclusive right to introduce such a term and use it as an argument? What guarantees that everything not listed won't become a selling point later on? Why should players, at the time of purchase, with partial information, have to read the minds of those who have the full information but chose not to share it, and somehow accurately determine what the sellers are planning to do?

Monte_Cristo

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

.

Since when have we ever retroactively received additional quests in Chapter zones? Once a Chapter is released, no new quests are ever added to that zone. Companions are brand new quests which start in some zone they're introduced in — and since we have no more striking locales left in West Weald, it's easy to assume they were never going to be retroactively added to that zone. How would including Companions who are located in base game zones make any sense to include with the release of Gold Road?

No new quests have started in chapter zones, but some multi zone quests have taken place in previous chapter zones. Isobel's 2nd quest included Vvardenfel, for example.

Erickson9610

manukartofanu wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't know about others, but when I made the pre-order, I was confident that companions would be included in that price. Especially since we were promised companions.

We were only told the Companions would be delayed until Q4. That doesn't imply they're going to be retroactively given to Chapter owners. We were promised Companions and ZOS delivered.

I personally didn't expect the Companions to be in the Crown Store. I'm sure nearly no one did. However, I thought that because they were in Q4, they were not part of Gold Road and might be located in base game zones. I was right, but I didn't expect to have to obtain them from the Crown Store — in retrospect, it wouldn't make sense to just give players access to Companions for free. I was foolish to expect such.

I still hold that the consumer should be the one responsible for being absolutely sure they know what they're getting before they buy or pre-order something. ZOS hasn't lied to us at all — the story is that Companions were delayed to Q4. We should've had no expectation of being given this particular Q4 content for free if it had always come at a cost before now.

This is a pointless conversation. The chapter announcement clearly stated, "Featuring a new zone, storyline, Scribing system, rewards, and more." We don't know what exactly is hidden under that "more," and we've never known before either, so everyone is making assumptions based on past experience. If we were to deliver exactly according to this announcement, then it turns out they could even sell antiquity leads for the new chapter through the Crown Store. Why not? They clearly didn’t specify that it's part of the chapter.

Whenever anything says "and more", that generally means they've run out of selling points to list. Companions are a selling point of a Chapter, as they have been for three years prior.

Since when have we ever retroactively received additional quests in Chapter zones? Once a Chapter is released, no new quests are ever added to that zone. Companions are brand new quests which start in some zone they're introduced in — and since we have no more striking locales left in West Weald, it's easy to assume they were never going to be retroactively added to that zone. How would including Companions who are located in base game zones make any sense to include with the release of Gold Road?

Listen, it seems to me that you're just trying to prove your point at any cost, even if it means distorting what we're talking about. If that's what's important to you, then fine, you can consider yourself right. But if you're actually interested in discussing the issue seriously, stick to the facts instead of twisting things. Otherwise, there's no point in continuing this conversation.

As for your arguments, who decides what counts as a selling point? Why did you decide that you have the exclusive right to introduce such a term and use it as an argument? What guarantees that everything not listed won't become a selling point later on? Why should players, at the time of purchase, with partial information, have to read the minds of those who have the full information but chose not to share it, and somehow accurately determine what the sellers are planning to do?

All we're guaranteed are the things that are explicitly listed. We got a new zone, a new storyline, the Scribing system, and new rewards. We're not guaranteed Companions, Antiquity leads, Tales of Tribute decks, item sets, or anything else we may assume that we'll get. In this case, we didn't get Companions, but we got the other items I've listed, and more. What is "and more"? There are many more things I could list, but the purpose of writing "and more" is to imply that there's more being offered.

We can expect that anything not explicitly listed in the description for a Chapter will not be included in the Chapter. Players should assume that they're getting exactly what is explicitly listed, and no more. Expecting anything more than what ZOS has explicitly offered is unreasonable.


This sort of thing happens in other places all the time. For instance, someone may purchase a charging cable for their phone, only to later realize it doesn't come with a charging brick. It's not the seller's fault for not including the charging brick, but rather it's the purchaser's fault for assuming that the cable comes with a brick.

The seller in this case did nothing wrong, although perhaps they could work on better communicating the lack of a charging brick so that purchasers are less likely to make that assumption. The purchaser should be more careful and thoroughly read the description of the item they're buying so they know for a fact what they are getting, even if the packaging doesn't say what they're not getting. If that description doesn't say that it includes a charging brick, then it probably doesn't — even if you think it would or should!


It's okay to believe that the purchaser should have 100% clarity of what is and is not included in a product. It's also okay to believe that the seller should be held responsible for potentially misleading purchasers to spend money on a product only to realize they have to spend more money buying the other piece separately. I just think that because the seller (ZOS in this case) gave us everything they explicitly said they would, that they're in the clear. We should've known better than to assume we'd get everything we used to get just because we read "and more" in the description.

Erickson9610

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

No new quests have started in chapter zones, but some multi zone quests have taken place in previous chapter zones. Isobel's 2nd quest included Vvardenfel, for example.

Vvardenfell is a special exception because it was made free for the base game. Normally, DLCs can't require you to visit other DLC areas, because each DLC is meant to be a self-contained story. Only in special exceptions, such as epilogue quests for some storylines, will you be required to have the corresponding achievement for all DLCs in order to access the questlines that do take you between DLC zones. For the previous Companions, they had free reign over the zone they were introduced in, as well as any other zone available to the base game, such as Vvardenfell.

2024's Companions are met in Auridon and Reaper's March, and will not require the player to visit West Weald. Because these Companions are a separate purchase from Gold Road, they will have nothing to do with that Chapter's zone. If they do take you to DLC regions of the world, like we see in the Scribing questline, any involvement there will be limited to a closed off area, separate from the actual zone.

WolfCombatPet

I'm just going to point out that whoever is in charge of feedback for this issue should count how many upvotes comments have.

Since upvotes are basically hidden unless we mouseover a tiny section of the forums:

dcrush

Gold Road is a prime example of shrinkflation in games. Less content for the same price.

* companions used to be in the chapters, now you have to buy them
* Gold Road zone size and number of quests are similar to previous Q4 DLCs

Also, Infinite Archive was a Q4 update that is accessible for everyone. I don’t think it’s strange if people thought companions would be added in a similar way (especially because they used to be chapter content).

Elsonso

WolfCombatPet wrote: »

I'm just going to point out that whoever is in charge of feedback for this issue should count how many upvotes comments have.

Since upvotes are basically hidden unless we mouseover a tiny section of the forums:

I am sure that aggregate information from the forums does wind its way to the e-commerce and marketing people, but the real determining factor isn't whether people click an "agree" button, but whether they purchase the product that is being sold.

Early indications, even here in the forum, is that people will purchase, outright or via ESO Plus, one or both of these. Maybe not a majority, but that is probably true for a lot of things in the Crown Store.




I expect that from now on that all new companions will be ESO Plus or Crown purchases, and when they are not, they will be gifts from ZOS. I think that it is very possible that Necrom was the last of the Chapter-included companions.

NDReptiles

Elsonso wrote: »

Early indications, even here in the forum, is that people will purchase, outright or via ESO Plus, one or both of these. Maybe not a majority, but that is probably true for a lot of things in the Crown Store.

I expect that a lot of the "I'll try both" voters are like me and are only getting the companions because we already pay for ESO+ and they will be no added cost for us. If I had to pay extra, I wouldn't be getting them. I still find value in ESO+ and for now will continue to subscribe, but I wouldn't get ESO+ just for these companions.
The bean counters should keep that in mind.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

Early indications, even here in the forum, is that people will purchase, outright or via ESO Plus, one or both of these. Maybe not a majority, but that is probably true for a lot of things in the Crown Store.

I expect that from now on that all new companions will be ESO Plus or Crown purchases, and when they are not, they will be gifts from ZOS. I think that it is very possible that Necrom was the last of the Chapter-included companions.

I have the same suspicion, although I feel that the poll result is a skewed one. Voting "I will use them (or one of them)" doesn't neccessarily mean that people would absolutely be willing to pay money for a companion. It'd be interesting to see how many of that percentage only grab the companions because it's free for them, because they have ESO+ at the moment anyway. Many people will grab every freebie available to them, whether they even intend to use it later or not.

Elsonso

NDReptiles wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Early indications, even here in the forum, is that people will purchase, outright or via ESO Plus, one or both of these. Maybe not a majority, but that is probably true for a lot of things in the Crown Store.

I expect that a lot of the "I'll try both" voters are like me and are only getting the companions because we already pay for ESO+ and they will be no added cost for us. If I had to pay extra, I wouldn't be getting them. I still find value in ESO+ and for now will continue to subscribe, but I wouldn't get ESO+ just for these companions.
The bean counters should keep that in mind.

I expect that they will also keep in mind that this is added to the value of ESO Plus. When people comment that ESO Plus has lost value over time due to fewer DLC being released, companions will be held up as an example where ESO Plus value has been added. It is true that two companions are not equal to even a single dungeon or zone DLC, but I am not sure that will matter. If ESO Plus numbers remain the same, or even increase, these companions will be an example of how ZOS accomplished that.

In the end, what matters are numbers, and these companions are not free. Somewhere, the player is paying for them, and as long as the players continue to pay, these will be successful additions to the Crown Store.

I should note that this is not much different from including companions in the Chapter, but it does represent a movement away from depending on annual Chapters and quarterly DLC for revenue.

Syldras

Elsonso wrote: »

I expect that they will also keep in mind that this is added to the value of ESO Plus. When people comment that ESO Plus has lost value over time due to fewer DLC being released, companions will be held up as an example where ESO Plus value has been added. It is true that two companions are not equal to even a single dungeon or zone DLC, but I am not sure that will matter. If ESO Plus numbers remain the same, or even increase, these companions will be an example of how ZOS accomplished that.

I can see that happening. The problem I see is that there will probably always be people who have ESO+, just for the double inventory and crafting bag alone. Mine is running out soon and I'm seriously reconsidering whether I should renew or not anymore - the reduction of content this year annoys me so much... but many people just love the convenience when it comes to inventory space. So the number of ESO+ people will probably not drop significantly soon, no matter what happens.

biovitalb16_ESO

It's all just baby steps to full monetization. By the end of this games life cycle I bet we see wayshrines only being accessible via crown crates.

manukartofanu

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't know about others, but when I made the pre-order, I was confident that companions would be included in that price. Especially since we were promised companions.

We were only told the Companions would be delayed until Q4. That doesn't imply they're going to be retroactively given to Chapter owners. We were promised Companions and ZOS delivered.

I personally didn't expect the Companions to be in the Crown Store. I'm sure nearly no one did. However, I thought that because they were in Q4, they were not part of Gold Road and might be located in base game zones. I was right, but I didn't expect to have to obtain them from the Crown Store — in retrospect, it wouldn't make sense to just give players access to Companions for free. I was foolish to expect such.

I still hold that the consumer should be the one responsible for being absolutely sure they know what they're getting before they buy or pre-order something. ZOS hasn't lied to us at all — the story is that Companions were delayed to Q4. We should've had no expectation of being given this particular Q4 content for free if it had always come at a cost before now.

This is a pointless conversation. The chapter announcement clearly stated, "Featuring a new zone, storyline, Scribing system, rewards, and more." We don't know what exactly is hidden under that "more," and we've never known before either, so everyone is making assumptions based on past experience. If we were to deliver exactly according to this announcement, then it turns out they could even sell antiquity leads for the new chapter through the Crown Store. Why not? They clearly didn’t specify that it's part of the chapter.

Whenever anything says "and more", that generally means they've run out of selling points to list. Companions are a selling point of a Chapter, as they have been for three years prior.

Since when have we ever retroactively received additional quests in Chapter zones? Once a Chapter is released, no new quests are ever added to that zone. Companions are brand new quests which start in some zone they're introduced in — and since we have no more striking locales left in West Weald, it's easy to assume they were never going to be retroactively added to that zone. How would including Companions who are located in base game zones make any sense to include with the release of Gold Road?

Listen, it seems to me that you're just trying to prove your point at any cost, even if it means distorting what we're talking about. If that's what's important to you, then fine, you can consider yourself right. But if you're actually interested in discussing the issue seriously, stick to the facts instead of twisting things. Otherwise, there's no point in continuing this conversation.

As for your arguments, who decides what counts as a selling point? Why did you decide that you have the exclusive right to introduce such a term and use it as an argument? What guarantees that everything not listed won't become a selling point later on? Why should players, at the time of purchase, with partial information, have to read the minds of those who have the full information but chose not to share it, and somehow accurately determine what the sellers are planning to do?

All we're guaranteed are the things that are explicitly listed. We got a new zone, a new storyline, the Scribing system, and new rewards. We're not guaranteed Companions, Antiquity leads, Tales of Tribute decks, item sets, or anything else we may assume that we'll get. In this case, we didn't get Companions, but we got the other items I've listed, and more. What is "and more"? There are many more things I could list, but the purpose of writing "and more" is to imply that there's more being offered.

We can expect that anything not explicitly listed in the description for a Chapter will not be included in the Chapter. Players should assume that they're getting exactly what is explicitly listed, and no more. Expecting anything more than what ZOS has explicitly offered is unreasonable.


This sort of thing happens in other places all the time. For instance, someone may purchase a charging cable for their phone, only to later realize it doesn't come with a charging brick. It's not the seller's fault for not including the charging brick, but rather it's the purchaser's fault for assuming that the cable comes with a brick.

The seller in this case did nothing wrong, although perhaps they could work on better communicating the lack of a charging brick so that purchasers are less likely to make that assumption. The purchaser should be more careful and thoroughly read the description of the item they're buying so they know for a fact what they are getting, even if the packaging doesn't say what they're not getting. If that description doesn't say that it includes a charging brick, then it probably doesn't — even if you think it would or should!


It's okay to believe that the purchaser should have 100% clarity of what is and is not included in a product. It's also okay to believe that the seller should be held responsible for potentially misleading purchasers to spend money on a product only to realize they have to spend more money buying the other piece separately. I just think that because the seller (ZOS in this case) gave us everything they explicitly said they would, that they're in the clear. We should've known better than to assume we'd get everything we used to get just because we read "and more" in the description.

I can agree with these formulations. Yes, that's right. But since it's impossible to know in detail exactly what you're paying for when you make a pre-purchase, the decision is made based on prior experience. This prior experience is built from purchasing similar products from competing manufacturers or buying similar products from the same manufacturer. Since we were previously sold chapters with similar content, including companions, we expected them this time as well. Pushed to Q4? Okay. Maybe this time they decided to release them for free to advertise that part of the previous chapters to a wider audience. I think none of the buyers would be opposed to such a decision.

In this case, however, they made this content both paid and not included it in the chapter. The public reaction in this case is completely understandable. You may like it or not, but it’s absolutely natural. This is exactly how the reputation system works in society and in the market. It's clear that managers want to sell as much as possible for as much money as possible, including with such tricks. And this inevitably hits the reputation of the company they represent, in which they introduced such practices. We can no longer cancel our pre-purchase, but what we can do is not make it next year. Especially since, as you describe, in fact, we cannot be sure of anything regarding the content. Previously, this balance was maintained by an unspoken social contract that everything included in previous chapters would be included in this one as well. Now, however, a precedent has been set where part of the content from the previous chapter suddenly became paid separately in this chapter, without any warning that this would happen. And now we, as buyers, are obliged to take this into account.

By the way, this is a rather slippery slope, because we were guaranteed a new zone, a new storyline, and the Scribing system, but nothing was said about in what form. For example, there's nothing stopping them from not adding Luminous Ink drop anywhere except the storyline, and making the crown store the only source of Luminous Ink. And even in this case, all your arguments, like it's the buyer's fault, since they weren’t explicitly told that Luminous Ink would be added as a world drop, would still be equally valid.

AlterBlika

Tbh if I have to pay for companions they'd better be max level already