Drgaonbones DLC giveaway on September, amazing! However...

katanagirl1

Stafford197 wrote: »

What’s the goal here? Everyone who wants a 6 year old DLC already has it, and in fact some people do not want it due to the implications it has on random group finder. Furthermore, no one is buying this content and certainly not a single player will return for this. I’d be surprised if any players who quit the game even see this!

ZOS needs to make all DLC 3 years or older into base game content to condense the intimidating DLC wall they’ve accumulated.

At the very least we need Greymoor and all previous DLC to become base game. This would allow essential features like antiquities, transmuting, jewelry craft to be part of the game instead of locked behind a paywall when new players attempt to interact with these systems.

I’m happy to have this dlc for free because I sub and don’t buy dungeon dlcs. It’s always good to have it purchased just in case.

TaSheen

ESO_player123 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Are people really so stuck into thinking that the primary function of random normal is to farm transmutes that they are willing to decline free dungeons just because they might not be fast enough?

Yes.
Apart from maybe levelling a new character on lower levels, I literally have no other reason to ever do random normals.

Why would I?
If I want gear, I queue for the specific one.
If I want challenge, normals aren't providing that.
If I want story, I sure as hell won't get that in a random group.

What other reasons are there for doing RNDs?

And this is why it was a big mistake to turn entry level content into farm fest for vet players.

Perhaps, but I think one of the reasons was to populate the queue. No interesting reward -> long queues for random normal dungeons.

As a result we have very popular content that barely anyone actually enjoys running. I'm not sure if it's a good tradeoff.

Unfortunately, for an old game like this rewards is the only way to make long time players repeat content. So, good or not, it's their way to populate the queue.

Well.... it does depend on the player. I repeat content all the time on new characters. A LOT of content. Quest lines, depending on the character (each is different so the quest lines repeated vary widely). Also, the Psijic quest line and the Scribing quest line, on every character. And for me, rewards are of no interest at all....

ESO_player123

TaSheen wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Are people really so stuck into thinking that the primary function of random normal is to farm transmutes that they are willing to decline free dungeons just because they might not be fast enough?

Yes.
Apart from maybe levelling a new character on lower levels, I literally have no other reason to ever do random normals.

Why would I?
If I want gear, I queue for the specific one.
If I want challenge, normals aren't providing that.
If I want story, I sure as hell won't get that in a random group.

What other reasons are there for doing RNDs?

And this is why it was a big mistake to turn entry level content into farm fest for vet players.

Perhaps, but I think one of the reasons was to populate the queue. No interesting reward -> long queues for random normal dungeons.

As a result we have very popular content that barely anyone actually enjoys running. I'm not sure if it's a good tradeoff.

Unfortunately, for an old game like this rewards is the only way to make long time players repeat content. So, good or not, it's their way to populate the queue.

Well.... it does depend on the player. I repeat content all the time on new characters. A LOT of content. Quest lines, depending on the character (each is different so the quest lines repeated vary widely). Also, the Psijic quest line and the Scribing quest line, on every character. And for me, rewards are of no interest at all....

What you describe are solo activities. Dungeons are designed for 4 people, so, if there is no suitable reward, players could be subjected to a long wait if not enough players are enticed to do them. A player can do a quest or complete the Psijic quest line any time they like without depending on others.

Varana

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Are people really so stuck into thinking that the primary function of random normal is to farm transmutes that they are willing to decline free dungeons just because they might not be fast enough?

Yes.
Apart from maybe levelling a new character on lower levels, I literally have no other reason to ever do random normals.

Why would I?
If I want gear, I queue for the specific one.
If I want challenge, normals aren't providing that.
If I want story, I sure as hell won't get that in a random group.

What other reasons are there for doing RNDs?

And this is why it was a big mistake to turn entry level content into farm fest for vet players.

I agree.

But what other options are there to populate the queue for entry-level dungeons? I doubt there are enough new players or old players with new characters to have a somewhat consistently popping queue. So either new players wait for an hour in the queue - a bad experience that you want to avoid - or have the current compromise.

I don't sprint through the dungeon when there are low-level players in the group. There's not much else you can do.

GuuMoonRyoung

Seems like many people are worried about their RND queue. How about we change the two queue into 4 queue?

RND: dungeons up to imperial city dlc, daily completion gives 5 transmute.

RDD: random dlc dungeons, dungeons released after IC dlc, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RCVD: random classic vet dungeon, vet version of RND, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RDVD: random dlc vet dungeon, vet version of RDD. gives 20 transmute crystals for daily completion.

colossalvoids

Varana wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Are people really so stuck into thinking that the primary function of random normal is to farm transmutes that they are willing to decline free dungeons just because they might not be fast enough?

Yes.
Apart from maybe levelling a new character on lower levels, I literally have no other reason to ever do random normals.

Why would I?
If I want gear, I queue for the specific one.
If I want challenge, normals aren't providing that.
If I want story, I sure as hell won't get that in a random group.

What other reasons are there for doing RNDs?

And this is why it was a big mistake to turn entry level content into farm fest for vet players.

I agree.

But what other options are there to populate the queue for entry-level dungeons? I doubt there are enough new players or old players with new characters to have a somewhat consistently popping queue. So either new players wait for an hour in the queue - a bad experience that you want to avoid - or have the current compromise.

I don't sprint through the dungeon when there are low-level players in the group. There's not much else you can do.

Or you could potentially make an effort improving the game to the point it will have no shortage of long time players who actually engage with content at their own will without being funneled there. As a "vet" player what rnd have become is simply bad game design, it's intended purpose is completely removed from the game and turned into positive metrics for the company, nothing more.

Aurielle

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Seems like many people are worried about their RND queue. How about we change the two queue into 4 queue?

RND: dungeons up to imperial city dlc, daily completion gives 5 transmute.

RDD: random dlc dungeons, dungeons released after IC dlc, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RCVD: random classic vet dungeon, vet version of RND, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RDVD: random dlc vet dungeon, vet version of RDD. gives 20 transmute crystals for daily completion.

Way too many options. The current system is fine. I also wouldn’t want to lose access to ten transmutes per RND when I’m not subbed…

I’m personally not worried about my RND queues this month, because I’m the one in full control over whether or not I accept the two free DLCs.

Buffy121

I have looked at the daily rewards and I am another player who will not be collecting them this month. I don't buy DLC dungeon packs and I don't want to own any of them if I decide to do a random daily dungeon.

I like free stuff in daily rewards (even stuff I don't use) but this will impact on my gameplay so I am giving it a pass.

GuuMoonRyoung

Aurielle wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Seems like many people are worried about their RND queue. How about we change the two queue into 4 queue?

RND: dungeons up to imperial city dlc, daily completion gives 5 transmute.

RDD: random dlc dungeons, dungeons released after IC dlc, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RCVD: random classic vet dungeon, vet version of RND, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RDVD: random dlc vet dungeon, vet version of RDD. gives 20 transmute crystals for daily completion.

Way too many options. The current system is fine. I also wouldn’t want to lose access to ten transmutes per RND when I’m not subbed…

I’m personally not worried about my RND queues this month, because I’m the one in full control over whether or not I accept the two free DLCs.

You are allergic to more trasnmute crystals? With my suggestion, you could literally earn, 45 transmute crystals per character every day...

Aurielle

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Seems like many people are worried about their RND queue. How about we change the two queue into 4 queue?

RND: dungeons up to imperial city dlc, daily completion gives 5 transmute.

RDD: random dlc dungeons, dungeons released after IC dlc, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RCVD: random classic vet dungeon, vet version of RND, gives 10 transmute crystals for daily completion.

RDVD: random dlc vet dungeon, vet version of RDD. gives 20 transmute crystals for daily completion.

Way too many options. The current system is fine. I also wouldn’t want to lose access to ten transmutes per RND when I’m not subbed…

I’m personally not worried about my RND queues this month, because I’m the one in full control over whether or not I accept the two free DLCs.

You are allergic to more trasnmute crystals? With my suggestion, you could literally earn, 45 transmute crystals per character every day...

I personally have minimal interest in doing random vet dungeons, and even less interest in doing random vet DLC dungeons, especially when I’m tanking (everyone just loves doing a random with DDs who do less than 20k DPS combined — NOT).

I just do RNDs on all seven characters when I need transmutes (“tanks” that can also DPS, so I can carry all the abysmal damage dealers who queue for RNDs). 70 transmutes per day in exchange for maybe an hour of my time or less is fine. Your proposed system would reduce my transmute gain to 5 per character, yielding only 35 transmutes per day. Not fine.

Nharimlur_Finor

Aurielle wrote: »

I personally have minimal interest in doing random vet dungeons, and even less interest in doing random vet DLC dungeons, especially when I’m tanking (everyone just loves doing a random with DDs who do less than 20k DPS combined — NOT).

I just do RNDs on all seven characters when I need transmutes (“tanks” that can also DPS, so I can carry all the abysmal damage dealers who queue for RNDs). 70 transmutes per day in exchange for maybe an hour of my time or less is fine. Your proposed system would reduce my transmute gain to 5 per character, yielding only 35 transmutes per day. Not fine.

I'm refusing the DLCs because my performance will be "abysmal" in both those dungeons. Especially when players such as yourself are there only for the transmute crystals and are not really interested in me furthering my skill in that dungeon.

For me and players like me, the inclusion of these two dungeons into the 'normal' 'pug' range will just cause more annoyance to both us and more experienced, but impatient players.

Thank me later.

alpha_synuclein

ESO_player123 wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Are people really so stuck into thinking that the primary function of random normal is to farm transmutes that they are willing to decline free dungeons just because they might not be fast enough?

Yes.
Apart from maybe levelling a new character on lower levels, I literally have no other reason to ever do random normals.

Why would I?
If I want gear, I queue for the specific one.
If I want challenge, normals aren't providing that.
If I want story, I sure as hell won't get that in a random group.

What other reasons are there for doing RNDs?

And this is why it was a big mistake to turn entry level content into farm fest for vet players.

Perhaps, but I think one of the reasons was to populate the queue. No interesting reward -> long queues for random normal dungeons.

As a result we have very popular content that barely anyone actually enjoys running. I'm not sure if it's a good tradeoff.

Unfortunately, for an old game like this rewards is the only way to make long time players repeat content. So, good or not, it's their way to populate the queue.

Well.... it does depend on the player. I repeat content all the time on new characters. A LOT of content. Quest lines, depending on the character (each is different so the quest lines repeated vary widely). Also, the Psijic quest line and the Scribing quest line, on every character. And for me, rewards are of no interest at all....

What you describe are solo activities. Dungeons are designed for 4 people, so, if there is no suitable reward, players could be subjected to a long wait if not enough players are enticed to do them. A player can do a quest or complete the Psijic quest line any time they like without depending on others.

Tbh for me group content stuff are the best and most replayable parts of ESO. Organised group content, not pugs. I've done all the dungeons and trials multiple times and I continue to do them still. RND from a dungeon finder is not the epitome of group play and should not be treated as a benchmark.

GuuMoonRyoung

This thread was about whether or not ZOS could add all year 1 and year 2 dlc to the base game to make the experience a complete run storywise starting at base game and finishin in clockwork city for all players.

And it ended up in RND and transmute crystal farming discussion... I feel like this community has some tunnel vision problem...

alpha_synuclein

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

This thread was about whether or not ZOS could add all year 1 and year 2 dlc to the base game to make the experience a complete run storywise starting at base game and finishin in clockwork city for all players.

And it ended up in RND and transmute crystal farming discussion... I feel like this community has some tunnel vision problem...

After few initial on topic responses it started to go into "I don't want dlc dungeons in my random queue" way...
But you are right, apologies for derailing

Thysbe

Maybe not a popular optinion but I want players to subscribe/buy content, so that ZOS is creating more.

For 2 years now the content of the 2nd part of the chapter (small zone/2 Dungeons) was cancelled due to QOL improvements and fixes which made things a bit better, but not in the extent I expected for giving up so much content.

I am pretty sure this is mostly related to players spending their crowns rather on crates, mounts and cosmetics than on small DLC and I think that you wont get a significant portion of the free-riders to buy content by giving it away for free. Someone is either willing to invest additional RL money in a game or they are not.

Instead you are taking away at least 1 or 2 old costumes/pet give aways that would come for free in the "old days" from paying members by using the daily gifts for this. Why not give some costume, weapon pack or pet to the players that already bought the DLC (or all players)?

Rearding the "DLC wall" for new players I think it would be better to include the DLC in the base game (like IC) instead of handing it out in a one time log in basis and rubbing it into the face of people buying it then that its now for free and let them question whether a permanent ESO+ subscription is really worth it with a reduction in new DLC content and a an ever increasing number of free give aways for older DLCs.

GuuMoonRyoung

Thysbe wrote: »

Maybe not a popular optinion but I want players to subscribe/buy content, so that ZOS is creating more.

For 2 years now the content of the 2nd part of the chapter (small zone/2 Dungeons) was cancelled due to QOL improvements and fixes which made things a bit better, but not in the extent I expected for giving up so much content.

That is not how corporations work, they won't give you more simply because you spend more. If that is how things worked, we would not have hunger, we would not have disease, we would not have housing problem. I can guarantee you, if ZOS makes a billion $ this year, next year their content credence would barely increase. You don't need to believe me, just look at the most profitable live service games in the market now, their year by year profit increased but their content output decreased.

Thysbe wrote: »

I am pretty sure this is mostly related to players spending their crowns rather on crates, mounts and cosmetics than on small DLC and I think that you wont get a significant portion of the free-riders to buy content by giving it away for free. Someone is either willing to invest additional RL money in a game or they are not.

And how do you expect people to spend their crowns? They buy crown to gamble with crates, that is how ZOS makes most of their money, not the subscription. Gambling makes the most money when it comes to monetization in live service games these days, it is the same for ZOS. Then comes thye exclusive costumes, mounts, styles, mementos, house guests and so on. All of these cost more than a simple subscription, those who are buying all of these are spending more than subscribers, they are the true patrons of the game.

Thysbe wrote: »

Instead you are taking away at least 1 or 2 old costumes/pet give aways that would come for free in the "old days" from paying members by using the daily gifts for this. Why not give some costume, weapon pack or pet to the players that already bought the DLC (or all players)?

Every month there are "free" items on cash shop only for subscribers, they are not available for anyone else. Subscribers aren't being shafted for subscribing, in fact subscribers are seeing increasingly more exclusive and free rewards every month now. I am not sure why you are even complaining.

Thysbe wrote: »

Rearding the "DLC wall" for new players I think it would be better to include the DLC in the base game (like IC) instead of handing it out in a one time log in basis and rubbing it into the face of people buying it then that its now for free and let them question whether a permanent ESO+ subscription is really worth it with a reduction in new DLC content and a an ever increasing number of free give aways for older DLCs.

Are you suggesting that the dlcs ZOS giving away now through daily reward should directly be added to the base game for everyone? Because that is exactly what I am suggesting and also, I am suggesting that those who have already purchased the dlc, not bought through crown to gold trading, should be compensated with some exclusive costume or mount.