Incredible! We still get a time penalty for conceding a match! I can't believe it.

AnduinTryggva

I took a couple of months of from ToT and I still have to endure that absolutely disrespectful time penalty for conceding a match that I have basically lost and I am literally forced FORCED to play it through.

This is disrespectful towards me and also to the winning player. I don't know ANY other game that forces this down one's throat.

The strict minimum should be that you have one concede free within let's say 20 min. That is that within these 20min you cannot concede twice without a time penalty. But at least once it should be free.

jaws343

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

spartaxoxo

On one hand, you don't want the game to feel like someone flipping over the board and going home constantly. It's good sportsmanship to play out a game to the end, even if you're losing. And try your best until the end. I wouldn't want to play a bunch of matches where I could only play them out if I had a bad starting hand.

On the other hand, sometimes RNG is really one-sided and ridiculous. Or someone is being rude. People should be able to concede those.

So, I think perhaps the solution is you have to play out at least 3-5 minutes. And you have to stay in a certain percentage of matches. So that only frequent leaves are punished.

AnduinTryggva

spartaxoxo wrote: »

On one hand, you don't want the game to feel like someone flipping over the board and going home constantly. It's good sportsmanship to play out a game to the end, even if you're losing. And try your best until the end. I wouldn't want to play a bunch of matches where I could only play them out if I had a bad starting hand.

On the other hand, sometimes RNG is really one-sided and ridiculous. Or someone is being rude. People should be able to concede those.

So, I think perhaps the solution is you have to play out at least 3-5 minutes. And you have to stay in a certain percentage of matches. So that only frequent leaves are punished.

I understand that frequent leaves should somehow prevented.

But please don't compare ToT to a football match or so.

ToT is a card game.

In any card game, and even in chess, you can concede a match and it is a valid move. Grandmasters do it. It is absolutely valid to do it in a card game or chess. So it should be for ToT.

So my suggestion is to have one concede free every X min. Maybe after 3min if that feels better for you. But you should not be forced to the end of a match.

SkaraMinoc

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

This is such a bad take. It gets to point where it's clear you can't win. It's rude to keep dragging out the match.

Highwayman

I disagree, it is good sportsmanship to concede when you know you have lost instead of dragging it out.

I doubt the penalty has anything to do with sportsmanship anyway and is there to prevent easy farming of rewards. In light of this, it's rewards over some minimum time played to put a limit on farming. That minimum time should be the timeout and the match should count time played towards it. This minimizes the impact to people that legitimately know they have lost while still impacting people that play trollishly.

jaws343

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

This is such a bad take. It gets to point where it's clear you can't win the match. Most games have this. Dota 2, Chess, Slay the Spire, etc. Even ESO Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds have this. Oh but little Tales of Tribute is special? 🤣 No.

And people who leave BGs, or stand in the respawn zone until the match ends because their team is losing are just as much poor sports as those who concede Tot matches.

Not to mention, this particular player wants the penalty removed so that they can just remove themselves from any match they disagree with, not necessarily a match they are losing:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/664666/modify-rhajin-urgently-needed#latest

Patron focus is absolutely a valid tactic in ToT, and wanting to concede any match that focuses on it is nonsense.

Highwayman

jaws343 wrote: »

And people who leave BGs, or stand in the respawn zone until the match ends because their team is losing are just as much poor sports as those who concede Tot matches.

I advocate fully removing the deserter penalty for battlegrounds. The penalty does nothing except force the match on someone who doesn't want to be there. I'd rather they leave and open the spot than be useless or just stand around. Some of my most memorable matches are ones where we came from behind because of a late queue.

ESO_player123

jaws343 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

This is such a bad take. It gets to point where it's clear you can't win the match. Most games have this. Dota 2, Chess, Slay the Spire, etc. Even ESO Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds have this. Oh but little Tales of Tribute is special? 🤣 No.

And people who leave BGs, or stand in the respawn zone until the match ends because their team is losing are just as much poor sports as those who concede Tot matches.
.

There is a big difference between BG and ToT. If a player concedes, it does not affect the teammates (because there are none). It does not affect the winner either. They get their win and the reward. The conceding person gets nothing (as it should be).

GuuMoonRyoung

jaws343 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

This is such a bad take. It gets to point where it's clear you can't win the match. Most games have this. Dota 2, Chess, Slay the Spire, etc. Even ESO Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds have this. Oh but little Tales of Tribute is special? 🤣 No.

And people who leave BGs, or stand in the respawn zone until the match ends because their team is losing are just as much poor sports as those who concede Tot matches.

Not to mention, this particular player wants the penalty removed so that they can just remove themselves from any match they disagree with, not necessarily a match they are losing:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/664666/modify-rhajin-urgently-needed#latest

Patron focus is absolutely a valid tactic in ToT, and wanting to concede any match that focuses on it is nonsense.

Why are you comparing BGs to ToT? That is an absurd take. When someone leaves BGs they make 3 other people suffer, when I leave ToT nobody suffers! Your argument is ridiculous!

jaws343

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

This is such a bad take. It gets to point where it's clear you can't win the match. Most games have this. Dota 2, Chess, Slay the Spire, etc. Even ESO Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds have this. Oh but little Tales of Tribute is special? 🤣 No.

And people who leave BGs, or stand in the respawn zone until the match ends because their team is losing are just as much poor sports as those who concede Tot matches.

Not to mention, this particular player wants the penalty removed so that they can just remove themselves from any match they disagree with, not necessarily a match they are losing:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/664666/modify-rhajin-urgently-needed#latest

Patron focus is absolutely a valid tactic in ToT, and wanting to concede any match that focuses on it is nonsense.

Why are you comparing BGs to ToT? That is an absurd take. When someone leaves BGs they make 3 other people suffer, when I leave ToT nobody suffers! Your argument is ridiculous!

I mean, the comment I replied to mentioned BGs as having a similar leave match mechanic...

AnduinTryggva

There is another reason why within a certain time slot one concede should be penalty-free: Server kicks.

With the instability that many players experience since a year or so people receive random kicks from server. Sometimes you can immediately log in again or you have to wait a couple of minutes.

Anyhow: You still get a concede penalty when this happens during a ToT match (or during a BG for that matter). This is a double penalization of people that get random kicks. Or even triple if they played a ranked match.

AnduinTryggva

Another reason is why we need a free concede at least every 20min or so is because initial tavern luck is so decisive for the match.

Three out of 4 lost matches I know from the start that I have have lost it because my opponent had the tavern luck from the start of the game that is he got the opportunity to pick a good card during the first two or three rounds while I was not.

There is simply zero reason to deny us a penalty-free concede considering how the game was conceived. If chain conceding needs to be prevented for players to abuse the system then put a cooldown on the free concede before you can concede again without a penalty.

Personofsecrets

5 minutes is not enough torture when your opponent is essentially playing with themselves. You must wait the full 10 minute punishment for your audacity of going second.

Kappachi

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I took a couple of months of from ToT and I still have to endure that absolutely disrespectful time penalty for conceding a match that I have basically lost and I am literally forced FORCED to play it through.

This is disrespectful towards me and also to the winning player. I don't know ANY other game that forces this down one's throat.

The strict minimum should be that you have one concede free within let's say 20 min. That is that within these 20min you cannot concede twice without a time penalty. But at least once it should be free.

If the game hasn't even gone 10 minutes yet there's no way you know that you "basically lost". You have no idea how many games i turned around from being like 10-39 to 70-42 or something similar. You need to learn the strategy of the game and play through, the resource building and massive turnarounds are a huge part of the game.

Also obviously taking away the penalty means that you're giving the other person free items and can be used as a boosting method, this should NEVER be implemented as there's no way to properly balance that, the winner should always get their spoils & rank increase.

AnduinTryggva

Kappachi wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I took a couple of months of from ToT and I still have to endure that absolutely disrespectful time penalty for conceding a match that I have basically lost and I am literally forced FORCED to play it through.

This is disrespectful towards me and also to the winning player. I don't know ANY other game that forces this down one's throat.

The strict minimum should be that you have one concede free within let's say 20 min. That is that within these 20min you cannot concede twice without a time penalty. But at least once it should be free.

If the game hasn't even gone 10 minutes yet there's no way you know that you "basically lost". You have no idea how many games i turned around from being like 10-39 to 70-42 or something similar. You need to learn the strategy of the game and play through, the resource building and massive turnarounds are a huge part of the game.

Also obviously taking away the penalty means that you're giving the other person free items and can be used as a boosting method, this should NEVER be implemented as there's no way to properly balance that, the winner should always get their spoils & rank increase.

Are you actually reading posts completely?

I have played ToT since its release. I have really played it intensely for quite some time until I got fed up (a few monts after Mora patron release).

I am not a top player but I count myself as average minimum.

So please don't treat me like I don't know what I am talking about.

Being able to turn a match is possible but it is based on RNG. It is only possible by some RNG twists that despite my opponents having had the initial tavern luck I am able to grab a top card later on.

Contrary to what some people like us to make believe, the part of RNG in ToT is quite strong. And since most mechanics in ToT are self enhancing boni to be able to snatch a bonus from the start has a huge impact on the remainder of the game.

By experience I know that I will lose on average 3 out of 4 games when my opponent was able to snatch a good card in the first or second turn while I was stuck with trash cards in the tavern. This means that my chances of being able to turn a match is not 50% which should be the case if the initial RNG part was not so big but 25%.

That is why one concede every 20min or so should be penalty-free.

Kappachi

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I took a couple of months of from ToT and I still have to endure that absolutely disrespectful time penalty for conceding a match that I have basically lost and I am literally forced FORCED to play it through.

This is disrespectful towards me and also to the winning player. I don't know ANY other game that forces this down one's throat.

The strict minimum should be that you have one concede free within let's say 20 min. That is that within these 20min you cannot concede twice without a time penalty. But at least once it should be free.

If the game hasn't even gone 10 minutes yet there's no way you know that you "basically lost". You have no idea how many games i turned around from being like 10-39 to 70-42 or something similar. You need to learn the strategy of the game and play through, the resource building and massive turnarounds are a huge part of the game.

Also obviously taking away the penalty means that you're giving the other person free items and can be used as a boosting method, this should NEVER be implemented as there's no way to properly balance that, the winner should always get their spoils & rank increase.

Are you actually reading posts completely?

I have played ToT since its release. I have really played it intensely for quite some time until I got fed up (a few monts after Mora patron release).

I am not a top player but I count myself as average minimum.

So please don't treat me like I don't know what I am talking about.

Being able to turn a match is possible but it is based on RNG. It is only possible by some RNG twists that despite my opponents having had the initial tavern luck I am able to grab a top card later on.

Contrary to what some people like us to make believe, the part of RNG in ToT is quite strong. And since most mechanics in ToT are self enhancing boni to be able to snatch a bonus from the start has a huge impact on the remainder of the game.

By experience I know that I will lose on average 3 out of 4 games when my opponent was able to snatch a good card in the first or second turn while I was stuck with trash cards in the tavern. This means that my chances of being able to turn a match is not 50% which should be the case if the initial RNG part was not so big but 25%.

That is why one concede every 20min or so should be penalty-free.

Absolutely not. As a top rubedite player whenever I compete in the season there's a lot less RNG than you're stating. It helps if you actually counter-draft during the patron phase as well instead of just picking the two patrons you favor the cards of the most. There is more skill than RNG and the initial "tavern luck" doesn't play much a role at all as you make it seem.

Vaqual

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

This is such a bad take. It gets to point where it's clear you can't win. It's rude to keep dragging out the match.

Yeah, if the opponent misses lethal for 2 turns in a row it just gets disrespectful.

ESO_player123

Kappachi wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I took a couple of months of from ToT and I still have to endure that absolutely disrespectful time penalty for conceding a match that I have basically lost and I am literally forced FORCED to play it through.

This is disrespectful towards me and also to the winning player. I don't know ANY other game that forces this down one's throat.

The strict minimum should be that you have one concede free within let's say 20 min. That is that within these 20min you cannot concede twice without a time penalty. But at least once it should be free.

If the game hasn't even gone 10 minutes yet there's no way you know that you "basically lost". You have no idea how many games i turned around from being like 10-39 to 70-42 or something similar. You need to learn the strategy of the game and play through, the resource building and massive turnarounds are a huge part of the game.

Also obviously taking away the penalty means that you're giving the other person free items and can be used as a boosting method, this should NEVER be implemented as there's no way to properly balance that, the winner should always get their spoils & rank increase.

What free items are your talking about? Could you please clarify? The person who concedes gets nothing. Since all of this is related to random matching, is the probability of two players conspiring together and being matched to the same game enough times to make a difference really that high?

If you are so concerned about boosting in ranked, may be we can talk about removing the penalty in casual games?

Personofsecrets

Today I played a game until the opponents deck consisted of 90% Crow and Almalexia cards.

This took a good amount of time.

I conceded, got the 10 minute penalty because being abused is fun, and I turned off ESO for the rest of the day.

There are situations that are unwinnable after 2 to 9 minutes 59 seconds.

Kappachi

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Today I played a game until the opponents deck consisted of 90% Crow and Almalexia cards.

This took a good amount of time.

I conceded, got the 10 minute penalty because being abused is fun, and I turned off ESO for the rest of the day.

There are situations that are unwinnable after 2 to 9 minutes 59 seconds.

probly vs me. i do the same strat, crow+almalexia stall to gather resources in order to go from 0 power to 50 power in 1 turn.

AnduinTryggva

Kappachi wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Today I played a game until the opponents deck consisted of 90% Crow and Almalexia cards.

This took a good amount of time.

I conceded, got the 10 minute penalty because being abused is fun, and I turned off ESO for the rest of the day.

There are situations that are unwinnable after 2 to 9 minutes 59 seconds.

probly vs me. i do the same strat, crow+almalexia stall to gather resources in order to go from 0 power to 50 power in 1 turn.

And you do this strat why?

Because, with some initial(!!!) tavern luck (getting the right cards instead of your opponent) you can amass such an advantage that your opponent as next to nil chances to win.

And don't tell me that the tavern during initial game does play no role at all.

I just had a match where my opponent chose crow and pelin and could draw first. Got a 4 gold crow card with an extra draw. My hand had 4 treasuries and one pelin card so gold generation was only 5 for me. When it was my turn I could only buy useless instant cards and 6 gold cards amongst which the 6g draw extra card crow card.I could buy no gold generation card at all. Obviously my opponent got the 6g in one hand earlier than me and bought the 6g crow card and I still could not buy useful cards. A small initial advantage can, based on tavern luck, excalate so quickly that a small advantage gets a huge advantage. I would say this is intrinsic to how ToT is conceived with all these synergies.

AnduinTryggva

On a side note: What really deserves a penalty is constantly queuing and then rejecting the game.

I queue now for 20 min and someone is chain rejecting the invitation.

I wonder if this is a sort of strategy.

ESO_player123

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

On a side note: What really deserves a penalty is constantly queuing and then rejecting the game.

I queue now for 20 min and someone is chain rejecting the invitation.

I wonder if this is a sort of strategy.

I think it's a bug. Try dropping from the queue and joining the queue again. I sometimes get in this loop you describe and this method helps. Yes, you loose you position in the queue, but you will get a game soon enough.

Aggrovious

jaws343 wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Stop conceding matches. Play them out and maybe learn something more about the strategy of a game. The penalty should absolutely remain.

This is such a bad take. It gets to point where it's clear you can't win the match. Most games have this. Dota 2, Chess, Slay the Spire, etc. Even ESO Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds have this. Oh but little Tales of Tribute is special? 🤣 No.

And people who leave BGs, or stand in the respawn zone until the match ends because their team is losing are just as much poor sports as those who concede Tot matches.

Not to mention, this particular player wants the penalty removed so that they can just remove themselves from any match they disagree with, not necessarily a match they are losing:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/664666/modify-rhajin-urgently-needed#latest

Patron focus is absolutely a valid tactic in ToT, and wanting to concede any match that focuses on it is nonsense.

Yeah, but when my opponent is taking 10 minutes to decide what to do when its clear they won, its a waste of time. All card games have a concede option. I am more than willing to play through strategy or watch it go down. TOT though has little to none. Its balancing is terrible. I haven't touched it in months